The Assassin Questions

[DarthSpekulatius]

while you are at two stacks Shock shouldn't proc the natural Surging technique or if it does shouldn't put it on its icd

 

It doesn't put it on ICD. You can proc your stance twice in a row on a single Shock if VS is up and your regular ICD is over.

 

following assumption you have two Static Charges and use shock while surging charge can Proc

then you get one static charge from the Guaranteed Proc and another one from the random Proc your surging charge is now on its ICD without giving you a static charge -> delaying your next discharge.

[Evolixe]

following assumption you have two Static Charges and use shock while surging charge can Proc

then you get one static charge from the Guaranteed Proc and another one from the random Proc your surging charge is now on its ICD without giving you a static charge -> delaying your next discharge.

 

Yes, that can happen. What do you suppose they do about it?

 

Just continue your rotation and stop moaning.

[Aelanis]

increasing Saber Strikes damage

increasing crit rate

while you are at two stacks Shock shouldn't proc the natural Surging technique or if it does shouldn't put it on its icd same goes for Discharge if it procs Surging charge it should first consume the three stacks and then grant the new one (if you want to keep the option to gamble using Discharge at two stacks hoping it will proc Surging charge for a fully buffed discharge it'll get a bit more tricky, but i'm not sure how well that works anyway it's pretty much a PVP only thing and I wouldn't try it unless Overcharge Saber is active.

 

increasing the chance to get Surging charge to Proc (no increased lockout time)

 

we have +50% Surge on Shock and Discharge,

if we lower that slightly and increase base damage of the two abilities until critical hits are worth the same as before, we get higher DPS without affecting Burst, in PVP nobody cares about the damage a normal Discharge does only what a Crit does.

also changing the PVE set bonus is Possible since nobody would ever give up on that third recklessness charge in PVP.

for Deception many small changes are the way to go.

 

The first two are much better than the last one. The last method would skew things towards lower crit ratings, which is a PVP area, and keeping the average damage the same in PVP would reduce damage in PVE. I forget which thread I talked about this in, but you can't play with those kinds of numbers such that it only increases average damage in PVE without touching PVP.

 

I feel like removing the combination of ICD and procs and replacing that with one or the other is the way to go. Preferably, I would just leave an ICD, especially on Surging Charge, which, if you run into an unlucky string, can murder your DPS. I've seen a full 300 DPS swing on that in my own parses because I couldn't get lucky here, and I had fewer Saber Strike uses on the lower parse.

[DarthSpekulatius]

The first two are much better than the last one. The last method would skew things towards lower crit ratings, which is a PVP area, and keeping the average damage the same in PVP would reduce damage in PVE. I forget which thread I talked about this in, but you can't play with those kinds of numbers such that it only increases average damage in PVE without touching PVP.

 

that's why slightly is underlined but also, the shock and discharge that matter in pvp are the Recklessness buffed ones so if you want to run full AP disregarding Crit discharge and shock don't factor much into your decision making it's only Maul that matters.

 

it would be regrettable for PVE of course, gearing with some crit is much easier then completely without Crit but I don't think you could completely disregard crit just because of that, i'm leaving Maul's bonus Surge deliberately untouched, and as I said I only want some slight shifting it around.

[Aelanis]

that's why slightly is underlined but also, the shock and discharge that matter in pvp are the Recklessness buffed ones so if you want to run full AP disregarding Crit discharge and shock don't factor much into your decision making it's only Maul that matters.

 

it would be regrettable for PVE of course, gearing with some crit is much easier then completely without Crit but I don't think you could completely disregard crit just because of that, i'm leaving Maul's bonus Surge deliberately untouched, and as I said I only want some slight shifting it around.

 

The secondary problem with trying to adjust damage like that would be that once you balanced it at a certain crit % (since it can't be balanced for a rating), the optimal crit rating would go down, reducing the amount of crit % you end up with, immediately destroying the balance you had. Giving it a bit of thought, this is a divergent process, as lowering your crit would subsequently raise your maximum burst, which could cause you to need to decrease surge damage again to bring it back in line, further lowering the optimal amount of crit... etc., etc.

 

Now, you can balance that at 0 crit rating, such that people can't drop any more crit (except through willpower, which may happen, but then you could balance for that idea instead). In this way, the process isn't divergent, and it's a one step process. Unfortunately, this would basically remove our burst. We currently have abilities (Recklessness) that let us take serious advantage of high surge bonuses on moves. Removing as much of the Surge bonus as you would need to on our moves to balance for 0 crit and all power augments would make the difference between our crits and non-crits mostly disappear (not to mention the lack of crit rating making us crit much less often). Which would make us a sustained damage class, and would radically change the current PVP balance.

 

In short, this is mathematically impossible to do and maintain the current balance.

 

EDIT: Oh, and if you don't include all of our surge talents in this reduction, you'll see the ones that remain have their top-end damage go through the roof, making that particular move very, very bursty, and removing the burst from the rest of our moves. (A.K.A. 15k Mauls incoming)

Edited April 23, 2014 by Aelanis

[Maudril]

increasing Saber Strikes damage

 

Given that manipulating crit and surge will only change ideal stats to make our surge even more silly, we can sorta scrap that idea.

 

Buff saber strike's damage eh? I doubht a 1-2% damage buff will beef up Deceptions sustain worth a crap. Doesnt sound like a good set of buffs to increase the sustained without affecting the burst.

 

Telling you, the way to go about it is to make those bursts closer together and to ease resource management. As said earlier, needing to use saber strike frequently just makes the sustained DPS more reliant on the burst to bring up the average.

 

But given that you all think that added DR is a nerf to high-damage situations, I do not actually expect you all to understand now that I think about it :/

Edited April 23, 2014 by Maudril

[Evolixe]

Given that manipulating crit and surge will only change ideal stats to make our surge even more silly, we can sorta scrap that idea.

 

Buff saber strike's damage eh? I doubht a 1-2% damage buff will beef up Deceptions sustain worth a crap. Doesnt sound like a good set of buffs to increase the sustained without affecting the burst.

 

Telling you, the way to go about it is to make those bursts closer together and to ease resource management. As said earlier, needing to use saber strike frequently just makes the sustained DPS more reliant on the burst to bring up the average.

 

Actually, if they would make Saber Strike do 1000 more damage per use.. it wouldn't be all that bad.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/652215/2/0/Damage+Dealt

 

He would've done not 3764 dps but closer to 3866 dps.

 

 

p.s. I hadn't seen this parse yet btw, I have no idea what gear he's in but judging from the parse I'd guess quite some. You don't just beat your personal best that stood for months by 100 dps like that, not even if you're knightrider or me

[AGSThomas]

If only a developer actually read this thread.

[DarthSpekulatius]

EDIT: Oh, and if you don't include all of our surge talents in this reduction, you'll see the ones that remain have their top-end damage go through the roof, making that particular move very, very bursty, and removing the burst from the rest of our moves. (A.K.A. 15k Mauls incoming)

 

who said increase the base damage of all Abilities I'm only talking about shock and discharge

[Iona_Var]

If only a developer actually read this thread.

 

I'm sure they do but they are going to go by what Xinika has listed for questions for us.

[Xinika]

If only a developer actually read this thread.

They are / will.

[Aelanis]

who said increase the base damage of all Abilities I'm only talking about shock and discharge

 

It doesn't matter. By decreasing the surge bonus for 2 of our major abilities, you significantly reduce the optimal level of crit for the whole tree, and so people run more power. And when ~150 crit turns into ~150 power, and gets multiplied through our still very nice surge bonus on an already very powerful ability (under a buff that makes it deal yet more damage), the effects are very much magnified.

[Aelanis]

If only a developer actually read this thread.

 

That's literally the whole reason for this thread. For the devs to comb through it and pay special attention to the very first post.

[Aelanis]

Actually, if they would make Saber Strike do 1000 more damage per use.. it wouldn't be all that bad.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/652215/2/0/Damage+Dealt

 

He would've done not 3764 dps but closer to 3866 dps.

 

 

p.s. I hadn't seen this parse yet btw, I have no idea what gear he's in but judging from the parse I'd guess quite some. You don't just beat your personal best that stood for months by 100 dps like that, not even if you're knightrider or me

 

I had missed that at first. He had some pretty insane luck going for him when he did this parse. 60% Shadow Strike and 52% Force Breach and 66% Spinning Strike crits? And with slightly above average Project and Shadow Technique crits, all with average Clairvoyant Strike crit rate? I don't think we'll ever see something like that again, unless the devs give some insane boost to the crit curve.

 

EDIT: Imagine what he could have hit if he'd had a 6 second interval between natural Shadow Technique triggers as opposed to the 8 second intervals he had... could have been insane. As it stands, he used Breach a little less than once every 9.5 seconds. Not bad, but it's about the only place I think he really could have gotten more lucky.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Aelanis

[DarthSpekulatius]

It doesn't matter. By decreasing the surge bonus for 2 of our major abilities, you significantly reduce the optimal level of crit for the whole tree, and so people run more power. And when ~150 crit turns into ~150 power, and gets multiplied through our still very nice surge bonus on an already very powerful ability (under a buff that makes it deal yet more damage), the effects are very much magnified.

 

in PVE yes but it doesn't work that way in PVP because of Recklessness, you don't go for the highest average damage in PVP because average doesn't matter all you care for is getting all your abilities for the first few seconds of the fight to critically hit, if such a small change to the two abilities that will crit anyway (discounting for the times when recklessness fails) changed your mind about the way you gear in PVP then you might as well run full power right now.

[Aelanis]

in PVE yes but it doesn't work that way in PVP because of Recklessness, you don't go for the highest average damage in PVP because average doesn't matter all you care for is getting all your abilities for the first few seconds of the fight to critically hit, if such a small change to the two abilities that will crit anyway (discounting for the times when recklessness fails) changed your mind about the way you gear in PVP then you might as well run full power right now.

 

A lot of people (Xinika, Evolixe, etc.) advocate for 25% crit rating for PVP, and if the surge bonuses on two of the major skills went down, they'd advocate for less (one would think). But then if you balance it at 25%, anyone who runs less crit will see larger hits than they were before. You literally cannot balance this kind of change without changing the current balance point of the class. It's numerically impossible. At your exact balance point for the changes, the people at that level of crit% see no change in max damage, and an increase in overall damage. Those below that amount of crit see an increase in max damage, while those above see a decrease in top damage potential.

[Griad]

I have something that i would really like to be looked at

 

The set bonus for stalker set is awfull compared to alot of other classes.

 

Compare to the following

 

Merc, 2 set 15% crit tracer and 4 set 8% damage increase on rail shot.

Perfect for arsenal, not so perfect for pyro but still very usefull.

 

Juggernaut, 2 set remove 10m range requirement for saber throw and 4 set 8% damage on force scream.

however juggernauts especially vengence can trade and get the 2 set marauder bonus which is 8% damage to ravage which is awesome.

 

powertech, 2 set bonus reduce exp fuel with 15 % ( this is their +25% crit chance skill) 4 set bonus 8% damage from one their hardest hitting special.

 

Marauder 2 set bonus Increases the damage dealt by Ravage or Master Strike by 8%. 4 set bonus Reduces the cooldown of Frenzy or Valorous Call by 15 seconds. Additionally, activating Berserk or Zen increases all damage dealt by 4% for 15 seconds.

 

Even sorc have some decent set bonus the only other class with a little mehh set bonus is the operative but still their 2 piece is far better than our 2 piece.

 

I think that a better set bonus might go along way, to help us get some more sustained, 15% crit on VS is fine but should be a 2 set bonus and then we could maybe get a 8% damage increase on discharge or shock i dont know i think i would be to much on maul.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Griad

[Kornaker]

I have something that i would really like to be looked at

 

The set bonus for stalker set is awfull compared to alot of other classes.

 

Compare to the following

 

Merc, 2 set 15% crit tracer and 4 set 8% damage increase on rail shot.

Perfect for arsenal, not so perfect for pyro but still very usefull.

 

Juggernaut, 2 set remove 10m range requirement for saber throw and 4 set 8% damage on force scream.

however juggernauts especially vengence can trade and get the 2 set marauder bonus which is 8% damage to ravage which is awesome.

 

powertech, 2 set bonus reduce exp fuel with 15 % ( this is their +25% crit chance skill) 4 set bonus 8% damage from one their hardest hitting special.

 

Marauder 2 set bonus Increases the damage dealt by Ravage or Master Strike by 8%. 4 set bonus Reduces the cooldown of Frenzy or Valorous Call by 15 seconds. Additionally, activating Berserk or Zen increases all damage dealt by 4% for 15 seconds.

 

Even sorc have some decent set bonus the only other class with a little mehh set bonus is the operative but still their 2 piece is far better than our 2 piece.

 

I think that a better set bonus might go along way, to help us get some more sustained, 15% crit on VS is fine but should be a 2 set bonus and then we could maybe get a 8% damage increase on discharge or shock i dont know i think i would be to much on maul.

 

You mean pve set bonus?

 

In pvp stalker's set is maybe the best of every inquisitor/consular.

[Griad]

You mean pve set bonus?

 

In pvp stalker's set is maybe the best of every inquisitor/consular.

 

Yes off course PVE set bonus, which is also the only ones i have compared with

[AGSThomas]

What date are the 3 questions officially being asked?

[IInox]

the second bonus set is not so bad, the first one (counting that saber strike miss at 5/6%) is not good.

[Aelanis]

What date are the 3 questions officially being asked?

 

Tomorrow, the 25th. We have one last day for Xinika to tidy everything up.

[brainpsyk]

the second bonus set is not so bad, the first one (counting that saber strike miss at 5/6%) is not good.

 

Saber strike misses are in the 10% range.

 

But yes, our 2-piece PVE set bonus is the worst in the game.

[Xinika]

Slightly updated OP's opening.

 

Speak what you need to speak now or hold your word till next round.

[MrEndymion]

Only thing I can think of is a duration increase of Shadow Protection to 15 seconds and a possible self healing component on Kinetic Ward. Second one is just a bonus.