Remove Bombers from Galactic Starfighter

[captainjackfan]

I've had several battles in Starfighter pvp now in which I can say the enemy won completely because of their bomber. The battle I just lost a few minutes before posting this was the final straw for me; a single bomber using a Warcarrier bomber ship had set up healing probes, a railgun turret and a rocket turret around the two satellites that his team controlled. This, in addition to defensive turrets and player defenders made assaulting the two satellites completely impossible. Even with my entire team gunning at the one satellite, (which had only two enemy players defending it) we were unable to take it; the enemy was being healed, and defended by railguns and rockets.

 

I've had about a dozen battles go like this within my past 30 played, and I am sick and tired of it. Either remove the bomber ship type, or severely tone down the effectiveness of their abilities. And it's worth mentioning that in the battle I just lost, while piloting a reasonably upgraded Scout fighter, said bomber was able to kill me in four shots. I was full health before it started shooting.

 

This has to STOP, Bioware. One ship can now monopolize the entire field, and it's ruining the fun of Starfighter pvp. Of course, you'll never hear complaints from the people who actually pilot these bombers. But speaking from the general SWtoR community, I can say that the bomber class is in need of some serious nerfing to bring it back into a balance with the original three ship classes.

[Telaan]

-----> http://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=419

[Vikassi]

People play space?

[bongimus]

While I agree with the original post, the biggest problem isn't bombers as much as the matches between a random group and premades. There is nothing fair about matching a 5 ship fully upgraded group against a random motley of players both highly upgraded and those who have little to no upgrades. It isn't fun to play, or fair when this happens on the republic or empire side. There really needs to be a better way to match than just sticking everyone as they que up. I love gsf, it's a lot of fun when you have a fair match, but there is nothing fun when you get killed because the opposite team is spawn camping and you get killed as soon as you spawn or they are so over powered that you get killed in one shot from a gunship or a few laser blasts. That isn't a dogfight, its not fun. Bioware, this was probably one of your best ideas as an add-on, but it really needs some tweeks.

[Joesixxpack]

What's a bomber?

[Capt_Beers]

pretty much this

[Joesixxpack]

pretty much this

 

I see

[Puissant]

People play space?

 

Ikr. Found out today there is actually a GSF guild lol.

[cycao]

Ikr. Found out today there is actually a GSF guild lol.

 

Lol wow

[wingzerokia]

I've had several battles in Starfighter pvp now in which I can say the enemy won completely because of their bomber. The battle I just lost a few minutes before posting this was the final straw for me; a single bomber using a Warcarrier bomber ship had set up healing probes, a railgun turret and a rocket turret around the two satellites that his team controlled. This, in addition to defensive turrets and player defenders made assaulting the two satellites completely impossible. Even with my entire team gunning at the one satellite, (which had only two enemy players defending it) we were unable to take it; the enemy was being healed, and defended by railguns and rockets.

 

I've had about a dozen battles go like this within my past 30 played, and I am sick and tired of it. Either remove the bomber ship type, or severely tone down the effectiveness of their abilities. And it's worth mentioning that in the battle I just lost, while piloting a reasonably upgraded Scout fighter, said bomber was able to kill me in four shots. I was full health before it started shooting.

 

This has to STOP, Bioware. One ship can now monopolize the entire field, and it's ruining the fun of Starfighter pvp. Of course, you'll never hear complaints from the people who actually pilot these bombers. But speaking from the general SWtoR community, I can say that the bomber class is in need of some serious nerfing to bring it back into a balance with the original three ship classes.

 

See the area I put in bold, underlined and highlighted. There is no way one War Carrier did all of that, they can have one offensive drone and one defensive drone out at a time... also, you were in a scout fighter, more than likely set up for a close range engagement and probably one of the people that were taking advantage of the broken evasion system before 2.6.

 

I have little sympathy for the lolscout whinny prats that think they had "mad leet skillz" because they were using a broken system, rather than trying to use a rock to beat paper, try using scissors? (Gunship or Strike Fighter)

 

A rail gun drone cannot kill you before you can kill it, also use your missile lock brakes, and use missile locks on the Drone Carriers or Mine Layers, it's not like they can get away from them....

 

So in the words of the old lolscout guard, "we're fine L2P"

 

And before you got accusing me of using a bomber, I fly a Star Guard, both pre and post 2.6, so I've always been on the short end of the stick, at-least now I have something to chew on most games.

[Joesixxpack]

 

A rail gun drone cannot kill you before you can kill it, also use your missile lock brakes, and use missile locks on the Drone Carriers or Mine Layers, it's not like they can get away from them....

 

So in the words of the old lolscout guard, "we're fine L2P"

 

 

Please... I drone rail guns all day and never brake for missile locks.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Joesixxpack

[Capt_Beers]

I like that he doesn't even want them balanced he just wants them right out of the game lol.

 

I got killed by someone please ban them and the class they play

[Joesixxpack]

I like that he doesn't even want them balanced he just wants them right out of the game lol.

 

Maybe this thread does belong here.

[EzioMessi]

I like that he doesn't even want them balanced he just wants them right out of the game lol.

 

Delete all Operatives nao!!!

[Gavin_Kelvar]

See the area I put in bold, underlined and highlighted. There is no way one War Carrier did all of that, they can have one offensive drone and one defensive drone out at a time... also, you were in a scout fighter, more than likely set up for a close range engagement and probably one of the people that were taking advantage of the broken evasion system before 2.6.

 

I have little sympathy for the lolscout whinny prats that think they had "mad leet skillz" because they were using a broken system, rather than trying to use a rock to beat paper, try using scissors? (Gunship or Strike Fighter)

 

A rail gun drone cannot kill you before you can kill it, also use your missile lock brakes, and use missile locks on the Drone Carriers or Mine Layers, it's not like they can get away from them....

 

So in the words of the old lolscout guard, "we're fine L2P"

 

And before you got accusing me of using a bomber, I fly a Star Guard, both pre and post 2.6, so I've always been on the short end of the stick, at-least now I have something to chew on most games.

 

this pretty much.

 

I'll grant it sometimes bothers me when you see in your spawn screen that there are people with Type 2 strikers or GS but they're playing something else and in so doing letting a bomber go uncontested (my Star Guard using Ions and Heavies can counter bombers and does quite well with that combo provided my wingmen don't insist that faceplanting Type 2 scouts into the bomber's mines/drones is a better plan than flying a different ship). But I have zero sympathy for Type 2 scout pilots who are upset that they can no longer kill any ship class they look at and don't want to deal with the fact that the devs have made weapons to counter bombers but the Type 2 scouts aren't part of that plan.

[Toraak]

If your group is having problems with bombers, then it's because none of you are using the right ships. This game has 2 options for dealing with bombers very effectively.

 

1: Nova Dive (republic) Blackbolt (imperial)- EMP pulse: this ability will completely wipeout mines from any area (or make them not function for 15 seconds, while you clear them out yourself) This will destroy seeker mines outright, as well as concussion and seismic mines. you'll need to target and destroy the repair/railgun/missile drones, but they won't lock or work for 15 seconds.

 

2: Pike (republic), Rycar (imperial)- EMP Missile

 

so you see, it's not the Devs fault nobody in your group uses either of these options. It's your own.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Toraak

[TheOldDruid]

What's a bomber?

Yes, the match making is very unfair at this point. When the DEV's declare that macro's are a ban able offence, yet allow the use of voice chat, especially in pre made matches, sometimes 2 each x 4, how is this fair.. How are PUG's, which are the vast majority of people that Q for GSF or WZ supposed to compete with this. Many simply don't have the tech that I and others have. They cannot or chose not to download or use the v chat. The point is, if macro's are cheating, (as the DEV's) have pointed out in several forums, why is not the use of voice chat, in the PVP environment, not cheating. In PVP (not PVE), any use of external programming that is used to defeat an opponent, should be considered cheating.

 

When this game first launched there were so many bugs/glitches in the OP's/PVE environment, the truly elite players had to resort to v chat. Sometime cross faction and cross server chat, on the fly, to figure out how to circumvent the glitches/bugs that the programmers missed. In the PVP world there are no such glitches/bugs that cause a team wide wipe. We should claim victory using only the tools that the game provides.

 

I have 7 fully mastered ships, 3 imp/4 pub. I try to balance the hours play equally for each faction. Better than 5 days play time each side. There is a tremendous differential between the win/loss stats of my imp/pub side chars. I absolutely think that this difference is because several of the well known guilds/groups on the pub side use voice chat in the GSF/WZ matches.

 

Bombers do not need to be removed. They can be dealt with. The external programs, that greatly add to the functionality of teams, absolutely needs to be removed.

 

full disclosure... I fly scouts and sometimes gunships. I have fully mastered strikes and a bomber but I am really bad at flying them. but I do appreciate the support that bombers provide for the team that I pug with, even though it is a bit difficult, sometime to hurt a bomber with my scout..

Octi/Bwulf POT5

Again. Crying to remove bombers is pointless. They do add an interesting element to the game. They can be defeated. GS's do this very well. The external programs, such as V chat, and Cheat engine, really add to the frustration felt by normal players. V chat, in PVP really needs to be addressed. just my humble opinion..

Edited March 7, 2014 by TheOldDruid

[MystbladeWA]

And before you got accusing me of using a bomber, I fly a Star Guard, both pre and post 2.6, so I've always been on the short end of the stick, at-least now I have something to chew on most games.

 

/shrug

 

I rock the soxxors on my Star Guard. They are a good ship.

 

Concussions and Heavies, with Quads for the knife fighting. Had 4 games in a row last night with 20+kills and 75k+ dmg.

[Bolo_Yeung]

3rd option to deal with a bomber-defended sat is a gunship with upgraded Ion Rail - shoot at turret and destroy all mines in vincity while another team kills the bomber and drones.

 

I agree though - 2nd type bomber can make the sat a death trap. Especially seismic mines can be deadly (ignoring shields is a little OP in my opinion). Add two interdiction drones and your scout can be outmaneuvered in dogfight with mentioned bomber

 

For me, personally, the 'bomber' (should be called 'minelayer'...) introduction was one of great mistakes (the reason I unsubbed, too).

[Danylia]

If your group is having problems with bombers, then it's because none of you are using the right ships. This game has 2 options for dealing with bombers very effectively.

 

1: Nova Dive (republic) Blackbolt (imperial)- EMP pulse: this ability will completely wipeout mines from any area (or make them not function for 15 seconds, while you clear them out yourself) This will destroy seeker mines outright, as well as concussion and seismic mines. you'll need to target and destroy the repair/railgun/missile drones, but they won't lock or work for 15 seconds.

 

2: Pike (republic), Rycar (imperial)- EMP Missile

 

so you see, it's not the Devs fault nobody in your group uses either of these options. It's your own.

I agree with Pike/Quell. But you don't even need the EMP missile or the tier 2 - a well geared Strike Fighter can kill the Bomber rather easily, and when the Bomber is gone, so are its toys.

 

But the tier 1 Scout? A ship made of paper required (due to laughable range of the EMP pulse) to fly in the middle of Mines, Drones, (possibly) Turrets and the Bomber itself, and survive? When the Mines and Drones ignore Evasion and do direct Hull damage?

 

Sorry, but the EMP pulse is borderline useless as a weapon against Bombers. It has its use - disabling Engine component, particularly on Gunship - and it could be useful when available to any ship that doesn't blow up when someone looks its way.

[Sinapus]

But the tier 1 Scout? A ship made of paper required (due to laughable range of the EMP pulse) to fly in the middle of Mines, Drones, (possibly) Turrets and the Bomber itself, and survive? When the Mines and Drones ignore Evasion and do direct Hull damage?

 

I plan on using kamikaze tactics when I start mastering my NovaDive.

 

Either that or I'll try to get that arc ability on a gunship's ion cannon and try that.

[mattycutts]

If your group is having problems with bombers, then it's because none of you are using the right ships. This game has 2 options for dealing with bombers very effectively.

 

1: Nova Dive (republic) Blackbolt (imperial)- EMP pulse: this ability will completely wipeout mines from any area (or make them not function for 15 seconds, while you clear them out yourself) This will destroy seeker mines outright, as well as concussion and seismic mines. you'll need to target and destroy the repair/railgun/missile drones, but they won't lock or work for 15 seconds.

 

2: Pike (republic), Rycar (imperial)- EMP Missile

 

so you see, it's not the Devs fault nobody in your group uses either of these options. It's your own.

 

Dont forget the good old gunship i have little problems with bombers, they hide, hit ion rail gun a few times always flushes them out then BHAMMMM there dead after couple of hits.

 

I dont play my bomber often but enough to know how they opperate., but as a scout, a gunship, strike fighter i can kill bombers, and for damn sure there wouldnt be any drone left standing fireing at me.

 

Sorry but most of these sort of problems i hate to say are L2P issues. I suggest you get a bomber, mod it out to max, then learn there strenths and weaknesses, and trust me they got lots of both.

[Korithras]

They don't need to be removed entirely, but they do need to be temporarily disabled/removed if a fix for their major bug and balancing issues are not imminent. Namely....

 

- Drones/Mines do not respect line of sight. They can be on the other side of an asteroid/satellite/etc. and still hit you.

- Drones do not miss. I have lightweight armor maxed out and distortion field to boot. I "always" get hit by them.

- Missile drones in particular require no lock-on time.

- Missile drones have a gun as well as the missiles. Pick one or the other, not both.

- Drones have too much HP, I have fully-upgraded quads on my flashfire, it still takes 4-5 hits to score a kill.

- Bombers have no penalty for deploying mines, you kill one they just drop another.

 

Clearly they have a lot of problems which make them easily exploitable by the fact that they have so many advantages atm, and they need to have their LoS issue fixed and other imbalances sorted out asap.

[Armonddd]

They don't need to be removed entirely, but they do need to be temporarily disabled/removed if a fix for their major bug and balancing issues are not imminent. Namely....

 

- Drones/Mines do not respect line of sight. They can be on the other side of an asteroid/satellite/etc. and still hit you.

- Drones do not miss. I have lightweight armor maxed out and distortion field to boot. I "always" get hit by them.

 

I could tell you guys the story about how I got and killed by a railgun drone on the opposite side of a satellite while barrel rolling with distortion field up. You know, in case anyone here hasn't heard that one already.

 

- Missile drones in particular require no lock-on time.

- Missile drones have a gun as well as the missiles. Pick one or the other, not both.

 

Disagree. The gun in particular is a nonissue because missile drone dps is pretty low even with it. The lock-on time is an annoyance, but not a critical problem; its biggest positives are making inexperienced players panic and not being distinguished from seeker mines. I'd rather the shield piercing of the missile be removed.

 

- Drones have too much HP, I have fully-upgraded quads on my flashfire, it still takes 4-5 hits to score a kill.

- Bombers have no penalty for deploying mines, you kill one they just drop another.

 

These I agree with. I've gotten my nose next to a repair drone with armor ignoring hull damage burst lasers and had to take two shots to get the kill. It's kind of silly.

 

In general, mines and drones just don't require a lot of skill to use well. The only time you see a bomber do under 10k damage is when no one attacks the point he's guarding, and native shield piercing on two of their drones kills players that would otherwise have been safe. And that's just a silly situation for a class that essentially uses NPCs to fight PvP.

[Fractalwave]

I plan on using kamikaze tactics when I start mastering my NovaDive.

 

Either that or I'll try to get that arc ability on a gunship's ion cannon and try that.

 

While going kamikaze in your NovaDive to fire off EMP does help, it doesn't pack the power necessary to take out all the drones, mines, and the bomber when they are at full health. You need help from your friends.

 

• Going kamikaze in TDM would be bad in many cases because you'd die so much.
  
• Going kamikaze in domination, you still die but you can catch the bombers before they get to the satellites. Your stats might look horrible but you get the win.
  
• Going kamikaze with a gunship and/or striker (preferably pike with long range missiles) watching your back is great. This doesn't work so well in a match where the opposing team stacks bomber and gunship pairs.