have you ever had someone just call everyone on the team bad? then had that person whisper you until you wanted to put them on ignore? this is a case of loon calling octi a bad. and simply dogging the guy. but look at the stats.. http://s26.postimg.org/a2jlqev1l/loons_folly.png Sorry loon. if he was bad, what does that make you. maybe we should just try and encourage team mates. offer helpful suggestions. if you do decide to talk junk before the match starts, try and do better than the person your talking about..

NO:(...... it didn't pop

I posted the voice chat OPINION, as another example why new pilots should be matched against other new pilots, to the extent possible. And along with others stated that we currently have no MATCHMAKING, as the ground based PVP. You chose to take us to the Olympics/WOW and beyond.. Have a nice day guy. Im done with this. I would be shocked if swtor ever fixes anything. They seem to interested in releasing new ships/gear.. guess it pays better.

Dude, your 2 points have nothing to do with using voice chat in PVP. The DEV's have made it perfectly clear in several forums that the use of macro's is considered cheating. Just because I have a top grade system, with programmable key board and a naga mouse, doesn't mean that I can use the tech to gain an unfair advantage in PVP. Just after the release of Combat Logging, I ran several hours of test, on the training dummies, using finely tuned macro's and then following the same rotations, without macro's. There is a large difference in dps over a 10 min window. That testing allowed me to fully understand the macro ban. Voice chat gives a similar advantage. Especially in GSF. One example.. if I'm chasseing you, and you have to stop flying and type 'help', you will probably be defeated. By using voice chat, not only are you able to call for help while still flying/fighting, but you are able to co-ordinate the rescue to maximum advantage. New pilots/subscribers/f2p, whatever don't have such advantage. Why do you feel that you need it in the PVP environment? Sure, it may be readily downloadable and free. But many simply will not download, try to set it up, or choose not to use it in PVP. The fact that guilds do use such tactics as voice chat while fighting is simply another reason to separate the new from the not new.

I don't disagree with anything that you have said. Each point about the new pilots is valid. But would not most of those points be corrected if new pilots were matched against new pilots, allowing them to gain experience by flying against each other? Sure, anyone can always create a new char, get on a new ship and join the new guys, and beat up on them. There are many level 55 players that fully enjoy running around level 40 planets ganking low bees. Most of the better players don't do that, its really boring and pointless. I say let the new guys fight and learn from each other, as is the way in ground based PVP. When that chars stats reach a certain level, then place them in the mix. What that level is, or what stat determines their readiness, is for others to determine. SWTOR will never develop a realistic tutorial, that allows a char to fly his chosen ship in a realistic manner, for testing and training. Separating the new from the more developed could serve as this tutorial. just my opinion

Well Matty, not that I was really issuing a challenge to anyone, but trying to point out something: If you should choose to make a new char on POT5, make an Imp char. Send me a tell with your chars name, I will fly with you, not against you. And if you fly in the afternoons (EST, Zulu -5), there is an excellent chance you (we) will find ourselves in a sever mismatch. And believe this.. If you are able to post 10+ kills and 20-30k damage in that new, un upgraded ship, perhaps you will be the inspiration that these new colony pilots need.. Personally, I don't think you'll do much better than your side did against the German aces..

If you can achieve those numbers solo pugging, in a new ship, while being matched against players in mastered ships.. Then good on you . very few can make that claim. As Brewski stated in an earlier post. Its not the ships that are the problem. Its the matchup. I have spent this entire week exclusively flying the Imp side, trying to determine why my Pub side stats are just incredibly better re the win/loss, than my Imp char. It is clearly the failure of a matchmaking system. I have been in matches where 4 of your guild and 4 of another guild, plus 2 pugs, were pitted against 8 new imps, and 2 average players, like myself. I still have some fun, as I will claim victory over 1 or 2, and will have done decent damage, considering the imbalance. But the other 8 players did not enjoy the match, they did not get much if anything out of it, and some of them probably said 'hell with this' , as they don't appear in the Q's afterward. It is not the fault of the guilds doing the pre-made, some of whom also use voice chat. It is not the fault of the pugs that form groups, several of whom advertise the use of voice chat while forming in general chat. It is the fault of the SWTOR DEV's, for not including a matchmaking system in GSF as they have always had in ground based PVP. Could you imagine the uproar, the subscriber cancellations, that would occur if ground based PVP matches followed the current GSF method of matching. Why should space based PVP be treated differently? I have seen these new pilots do well, in matches that are somewhat balanced. Even the tone in OP's chat is more up beat, even if they lose. Occasionally, depending on the time of night, the Imp side can have the clear overpower advantage over the Pub side. Even in same faction matches, the matchmaking algorithms seem to place power on one side and new on the other. Anyway.. lets have fun, until they fix it or it self destructs. Oh yea, in case you missed it. I think voice chat should be banned in all PVP. Its cheating.

Dude, you may believe the BS that you wrote. But face me in an new ship and see what happens.. The new players are deff under the gun, and the match making dose not help them one bit. don't believe me.. come to pot5, challenge bwulf/octi ill show you how good you are in a new ship, and post it to utube..

Yes, the match making is very unfair at this point. When the DEV's declare that macro's are a ban able offence, yet allow the use of voice chat, especially in pre made matches, sometimes 2 each x 4, how is this fair.. How are PUG's, which are the vast majority of people that Q for GSF or WZ supposed to compete with this. Many simply don't have the tech that I and others have. They cannot or chose not to download or use the v chat. The point is, if macro's are cheating, (as the DEV's) have pointed out in several forums, why is not the use of voice chat, in the PVP environment, not cheating. In PVP (not PVE), any use of external programming that is used to defeat an opponent, should be considered cheating. When this game first launched there were so many bugs/glitches in the OP's/PVE environment, the truly elite players had to resort to v chat. Sometime cross faction and cross server chat, on the fly, to figure out how to circumvent the glitches/bugs that the programmers missed. In the PVP world there are no such glitches/bugs that cause a team wide wipe. We should claim victory using only the tools that the game provides. I have 7 fully mastered ships, 3 imp/4 pub. I try to balance the hours play equally for each faction. Better than 5 days play time each side. There is a tremendous differential between the win/loss stats of my imp/pub side chars. I absolutely think that this difference is because several of the well known guilds/groups on the pub side use voice chat in the GSF/WZ matches. Bombers do not need to be removed. They can be dealt with. The external programs, that greatly add to the functionality of teams, absolutely needs to be removed. full disclosure... I fly scouts and sometimes gunships. I have fully mastered strikes and a bomber but I am really bad at flying them. but I do appreciate the support that bombers provide for the team that I pug with, even though it is a bit difficult, sometime to hurt a bomber with my scout.. Octi/Bwulf POT5 Again. Crying to remove bombers is pointless. They do add an interesting element to the game. They can be defeated. GS's do this very well. The external programs, such as V chat, and Cheat engine, really add to the frustration felt by normal players. V chat, in PVP really needs to be addressed. just my humble opinion..

Lytewraith , I have been in matches with you where you have basically parked your ship rather than engage in the slaughter that was happening due to the severe imbalance. You and the other few members of BS that I recognize on sight, always fight a good fight. I should not have said or implied that the 2 chars farming stats were BS members. When I woke up this morning, with a mildly severe hangover, I saw that once again my fingers out ran my brain. I regret that happened. GSF fighters can be put into 4 groups. imo 1. new pilot -- asteroid and blaster fodder. they usually get better 2. average+ pilot -- always has a kill to death ratio better than 1, can solo kill and take nodes 3. topgun pilot -- these are the pilots that I and others try to emulate, to learn from. they are good. you have many 4. ace pilot -- these pilots often inspire their opponents to use words like 'hacker', in ops chat, while they are waiting for their ship to re-spawn. There were some 500,000 aircraft used in WWII. Most of those craft and the million plus pilots that flew them, never saw direct combat. Of the tens of thousands of pilots and aircraft gunners that did engage in direct combat, less than 1300, world wide, made it to the 'ace' list. I have often thought this list would be much shorter if edited by true aces. I know that this is just a game, and it really doesn't matter. But some words do have a history. Imo, ace pilot needs to describe someone who can pug and or group, and clearly take it to the next level. Time after time. They excel even when saddled with a team of new pilots and a lost game. In some 230 hours of GSF time, I have seen 3 such players on our server. You know who they are. Certainly there may be more. Once again, I do regret using the words stat farming in the same paragraph as my reply to you. Bwulf/Akhillews pot5

Ballistic.. Hopefully you know your guild members better than I. I do not wish to result in naming names. That was not the point of the thread. But make no mistake sir,, as much as I respect and like the BS guild, I have seen instances of stat pumping. It is up to you to manage this, within your guild. Ace's should be held to a higher standard. I aspire to archive such a standard. Bwulf/Akhillews pot5 pub/imp PLZ define what constitutes an "Ace"

I realize that I may catch a lot of heat from this, however I think/believe that it needs to be said. Almost all of the POT5 "Ace" pilots should be removed. In fact, if you intend to continue this thread, you should butch up a little and clearly define what an "Ace" is. I have seen members of a well know squadron, using voice chat, clearly buffing their stats by having other members assist them in weakening a foe, then the assist will peal off after the enemy is almost dead, and allowing the 'Member of the moment' to come in for the kill. They will do this repeatedly, allowing a guild member to build up an incredibly amount of kills, to be screen captured, and posted as some truly great achievement. Guys, this is not what 'Ace' should be about. At least, not in my humble opinion. I have seen Scrab, who fights both imp and pub, rack up @40 kills, absolutely unassisted, while I was chasing him, in a match up that did not favor him, and Toe, like wise. These pilots fully deserve the 'Ace' commendation. I have not encountered any other pilots like them, and I simply acknowledge their fighting skill. They are both great, and I only wish that my team could fly as good. Many of the 'Ace' POT5 chars, even though they do post often (some are GM's), and good information, in the forums, should not be held up as "Ace" fighters. If you truly want a listing of 'Ace pilots' , please define what an 'Ace' is. And this definition should be very stringent, if it is to have any validity Otherwise you have only a "We are the Aces" list. A list that means nothing, a list that commands no respect. Just my opinion Bwulf/Akhillews pub/imp.. been here since launch.

Until the introduction of the bomber class I always flew scouts. Once upgraded, I did well, not ace material but well. After bombers came out it became apparent that our side would suffer without a counter. And during some of the hours I play, there was a lack of GS support. I jumped into my gunship and was shot down within the first minute or less, without doing any damage. Rinse and repeat a couple of times and decided that I would not be driving a ship that handled like a fully loaded dump truck with flat tires. After finding and reading your guide, just over 2 weeks ago, I built your ship, using your crew, and using your game plan for survival. It has made a HUGE difference. I don't focus on direct kills in the GS, as that is why I fly the scout. Rather, I use the GS as a support tool to let scouts and strikes do their job. I have about 100 hours of flight time/credits (pub side), so the build went quicker for me than for a new player. Just wanted to thank you for the guide and the survival advice. It worked well. Bwulf POT5 Armada

if you check your tool tip before you apply it, you will find a 1 sec reload time. if you check it afterward, you will find a 0.9 sec reload time. not a total waste but not a great gain either. pay a visit to the 'How to build a gunship' forum. that person wrote a very good post that compelely explains this and many other thing relative to gunships. Bwulf/Arkillews pot5 sry, missed the above reply.. he answered it

As we are on the same server, you would think that I would recognize any of the mid/good scout fighters, on the pub side, that 'migrated'. But I don't. With the introduction of TDM maps, many have been forced to outfit and fly gunships, in order to remain competitive and provide support to the team. When flying my scout, I hate getting hit by ion rail. If I am in a dog fight, only a miracle can keep me flying. I use TT and not booster recharge, so I am a sitting target for many a long second. But if I do get away, or after re-spawn, I track down the gun ship. And it will leave the area or die (given it dose not have a team protector). No amount of ion rail gun can save it. When I am on my gunship and a scout/strike/another gunship, takes the time to sneak up on me, I feel very fortunate if I can avoid giving the enemy a kill point by fleeing to my cap ship. Again, because no amount of (my) ion rail gun will save me. In fact, I would challenge anyone to name a load out on a gun ship that will enable it to dogfight either a scout or strike. I don't know how well a GS would do 1 vs 1 on a bomber, never had that happen yet. Is ion rail powerful? Absolutely. Is it OP relative to everything else that's out there? No. Not in my opinion. (Ever tried flying a scout in a confined space(B or C in domination) while an enemy is laying mines or drones while your fighting another scout?) I say again, if your afraid of gunships, learn to fight with the ship of your choice. Once you have begun to really get the feel of whatever it is that your flying, you will not feel intimidated by gunships. They have a place, a purpose, but they are far from being unstoppable. Bwulf/Arkillews POT5 Look forward to seeing you on the battle field.