Class Changes that should also be in 2.7

[Venjirai]

Marauder's Deadly Throw needs to have its rage cost reduced to encourage its use. Snipers and Marauders are the only classes with a heal debuff attack, but Sniper's version only costs 10 energy, which is 10% of the resource pool. Marauder's version costs 3 rage, which is 25% of the resource pool. Deadly throw needs to have its rage cost reduce to 1 to facilitate more use in PvP. This ability also has a PvP exclusive use, so any changes to it won't affect PvE much.

 

Yes, that's one thing that always bugged me. It's not that big a deal in rage spec, as you have almost always the focus to use it. Combat/Carnage on the other hand usually wants to use it for the root, but then lacks the focus to utilize it properly.

Gonna include it now.

Thank you.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Venjirai

[Venjirai]

*Changed Commando/Mercenary Interrupt Immunity.

[Venjirai]

Bump.

Guys, more feedback please.

The more good feedback and attention this thread gets, the higher the chance that bioware might consider some of these.

[JaingSkiratapwns]

Bump.

Guys, more feedback please.

The more good feedback and attention this thread gets, the higher the chance that bioware might consider some of these.

 

I agree with nearly all of the things listed in the thread, but sadly, bioware doesn't care. Your suggestions aren't for cartel market items, and its not fan fiction, so they aren't going to bother reading it. Heaven forbid they admit the communites ideas for class balancing > there own.

[Venjirai]

I agree with nearly all of the things listed in the thread, but sadly, bioware doesn't care. Your suggestions aren't for cartel market items, and its not fan fiction, so they aren't going to bother reading it. Heaven forbid they admit the communites ideas for class balancing > there own.

 

You might be right. We will see.

[slowantics]

bioware take note. this guy is doing a better job

[Venjirai]

bioware take note. this guy is doing a better job

 

Thank you, but I didn't come up with all of these changes on my own, you guys and some of my friends I talked to helped a lot.

I am still happy to get feedback, positive or negative and more suggested change to certain classes.

[Korithras]

The two things they need to do are put operative damage back to where it was, and buff how much damage resistance they get from pvp gear. That, and also beef up commandos so that we also get more damage resistance out of our pvp gear. As it stands now even a fully geared commando or mercenary can take half their HP in damage from a single shot. That's unacceptable and it's why we're targeted because people know we'll die easy.

[waterboytkd]

For Sent/Mara:

I would like to see the health cost on Undying Rage/Guarded by the Force moved to an upfront cost again, rather than a cost at the end of duration. Then, to maintain current functionality, UR/GbtF also gives 50% resistance to healing (a debuff). This would be nearly identical* in functionality as right now, but a huge QoL improvement, especially in PvE.

 

*Only difference would be that you could end UR/GbtF at full health if enough healing is thrown your way, as opposed to now, where the max health you can end the buff at is 50%, making it extremely precarious in PvE, and pretty much just a "I get 4 more seconds to kill you then I die" in PvP.

 

For Carnage/Combat specifically:

- Keep Execute/Opportune Attack proccing on Ataru strikes, such that each Ataru strike grants a charge of Execute/Opportune Attack, up to 3 charges. A charge gives a 3.33% damage boost to Force Scream/Blade Storm, and Towering Rage/Immaculate Force makes it so that each charge of Execute/Opportune Attack also give +33.33% crit chance to Force Scream/Blade Storm.

[Raansu]

The two things they need to do are put operative damage back to where it was, and buff how much damage resistance they get from pvp gear. That, and also beef up commandos so that we also get more damage resistance out of our pvp gear. As it stands now even a fully geared commando or mercenary can take half their HP in damage from a single shot. That's unacceptable and it's why we're targeted because people know we'll die easy.

 

1.) Concealment's damage is perfectly fine as is right now.

 

2.) No one is losing half their HP in a single shot. Quit exaggerating.

[jack__]

My Thoughts:

 

Commando/Merc:

Power Surge Interrupt immunity might not be needed with next patches changes, depends on how balanced they are then.

Cooldown on Emergency Scan shouldn't be that much, but the 2 and 4 piece PvE Set Bonuses should be placed in the tree and PvE setb bonus redesigned

 

Sorc/Sage:

Force Mend off the GCD is a good idea. I do like some of the force management changes proposed as well.

 

Assassin/Shadow:

If Shock procs discharge then the discharge ability itself will never be used. I do think either shock, maul or assassinate should be baked into the spec, but not like that.

 

Smash:

The spec does not need any more single target burst damage, instead it needs a sustained damage increase, with buffs to vicious slash and force lash damage.

 

Guardian/Jugg:

Removal of bleeds on impale and scream would be a huge nerf due to the smaller amount of vicious throw procs that will be avaliable.

 

Marauder/Sentinel:

Cost Reduction for deadly throw would be nice

 

More heals for Annihilation would be good

Instead of uncleansable dots, the best idea that I have heard is to have a cleanse only remove 1 stack of deadly saber's dot.

I do like the idea of crits with annihilate and berserk adding more stacks, but berserk should only add one stack and not the proposed 2. This means there would still be a ramp up, but it would be hardly as long.

 

No gore reset when gore is on cooldown is a great idea

The force scream stacks would need to be applied by viscous slash as well so you could get it when you weren't level 45 and didn't have massacre

 

Vanguard/Powertech

The increased damage to railshot in AP would be nice but it doesn't need to build a stack of PFT.

 

The tank tree ideas would be ridiculously OP. It is already the tankiest tank spec and they don't need even more mitigation. Taking away the main mechanic that they have to use (heat screans) would dramatically lower the skill floor and ceiling of the spec.

A root on a rocket punch, an ability with a low cooldown and the potential to be reset would be way too much control for the spec. A root from FT would be fine though.

 

Sniper/Gunslinger:

Another reset on explosive probe would be way too much burst for the spec. It's sustained damage without using the roll needs to be increased, but not like that.

 

In lethality I don't see why toxic regulators shouldn't just be changed to make it so dots don't break any enemies out of cc's

[Venjirai]

My Thoughts:

 

Commando/Merc:

Power Surge Interrupt immunity might not be needed with next patches changes, depends on how balanced they are then.

Cooldown on Emergency Scan shouldn't be that much, but the 2 and 4 piece PvE Set Bonuses should be placed in the tree and PvE setb bonus redesigned

 

Sorc/Sage:

Force Mend off the GCD is a good idea. I do like some of the force management changes proposed as well.

 

Assassin/Shadow:

If Shock procs discharge then the discharge ability itself will never be used. I do think either shock, maul or assassinate should be baked into the spec, but not like that.

 

You still need to use it in order to spread the dot on more targets as the cd of shock/project is 6 seconds.

You don't need to use it on a single target anymore (exception: target uses shroud or evasion), but always applying this dot before you can do any significant damage isn't fun either.

The shadow balance/madness changes are just my first try to bring more burst and faster windup into this spec, procs for maul/project would work too.

If you have a suggestion how this could work out better, don't hesitate to post your opinion.

 

 

Smash:

The spec does not need any more single target burst damage, instead it needs a sustained damage increase, with buffs to vicious slash and force lash damage.

 

This is arguable.

There is the one group, who wants more sustained damage with their filler attacks like slash, and there is the other group of people who would prefer more single target damage by increased burst.

Most people I have spoken to would prefer more burst, as it is more important in arenas than sustained damage.

It is also more fun.

 

Guardian/Jugg:

Removal of bleeds on impale and scream would be a huge nerf due to the smaller amount of vicious throw procs that will be avaliable.

 

Those class changes don't have exactly all details included.

So yeah, that proc would also be changed in order to make those change a buff instead of a nerf.

 

Marauder/Sentinel:

Cost Reduction for deadly throw would be nice

 

More heals for Annihilation would be good

Instead of uncleansable dots, the best idea that I have heard is to have a cleanse only remove 1 stack of deadly saber's dot.

I do like the idea of crits with annihilate and berserk adding more stacks, but berserk should only add one stack and not the proposed 2. This means there would still be a ramp up, but it would be hardly as long.

 

No gore reset when gore is on cooldown is a great idea

The force scream stacks would need to be applied by viscous slash as well so you could get it when you weren't level 45 and didn't have massacre

 

Vanguard/Powertech

The increased damage to railshot in AP would be nice but it doesn't need to build a stack of PFT.

 

This change was because of personal experience with the spec.

Sometimes when I find myself getting chain cced I often would be in the situation where the enemies are stacking and I only managed to build 1 or 2 stacks and my railshot proc is about to run out.

Now, building those stacks will take some time, and not using the railshot proc isn't optimal either.

So why not combine those two? It's more of a QoL Improvement as this won't matter that often, but still can prevent some of those frustrating moments.

My goal with the changes is not only to make the classes more balanced but also to increase the fun and decrease frustrating moments you sometimes encounter.

 

 

The tank tree ideas would be ridiculously OP. It is already the tankiest tank spec and they don't need even more mitigation. Taking away the main mechanic that they have to use (heat screans) would dramatically lower the skill floor and ceiling of the spec.

A root on a rocket punch, an ability with a low cooldown and the potential to be reset would be way too much control for the spec. A root from FT would be fine though.

 

 

In PvP that mitigation doesn't mean much, if you don't have the defensive cooldowns to back it up.

Vanguard tanks bring too little utility to the table, that's why I added the roots.

I agree that the rocket punch root might be a little to strong, a 2 second duration overall would probably be enough.

I am also not really satisfied with the heat screen changes, I might change them back, or do you have some ideas?

 

Sniper/Gunslinger:

Another reset on explosive probe would be way too much burst for the spec. It's sustained damage without using the roll needs to be increased, but not like that.

 

In lethality I don't see why toxic regulators shouldn't just be changed to make it so dots don't break any enemies out of cc's

 

Thank you for the feedback.

[Cyrith-]

Very well thought out and I agree with almost all of these changes. I think the reviv/salvation idea isn't a necessary change but everything else mentioned gets an A+ IMO. What I like the most about these is that they are an overall buff to all the classes to maintain balance, not a weakening and strengthening of some. This I think is the correct approach when considering balance and moves the game in the right direction.

Also I'd like to say that Pyrotech merc needs a buff as it doesn't even compete with the Powertech version of the specialization in the slightest. The bodyguard spec buffs you mentioned were right on though and from what I've seen is one of the classes/specs that is dire need of a buff.

[jack__]

For Madness Assassins I think they should add a stacking buff where every time your dots deal damage you gain one stack. Each stack decreases the cost of your next maul by 10%. The reason why there is not damage increase of maul like duplicity is since you have 3 dots, 2 of which will ideally have a 100% uptime if applied correctly, you will be able to gain stacks incredibly fast (with all 3 dots you should be able to get 10 stacks in 5 seconds). This would add another medium hitting ability to the spec making it much more pvp friendly as well as adding a much needed damage buff.

 

For a burst damage buff to smash you have to remember that there are 2 sides to fun. It might be fun for you to burst someone down in a couple of seconds but it is not fun for the other player. All the other burst specs in the game are either really squishy, easy to shut down or easy to kite. Smash, especially the marauder variant is none of these things.

 

Personally I don't think the removal of bleeds would really serve any purpose for a vengeance Jugg. Because of shatter they are not the things stopping you from CC'ing the target (shatter is), and they are just a cool little bit of extra damage, I don't think that they really need to be removed. I don't have a Jugg/guardian at 55 so I am no expert on the class, but from what i have seen the bleeds are fine.

 

I do understand what you mean by the PFT stacks from Railshot, however I think the reasons that you listed is what makes the spec fun in the first place. Having to make decisions about what moves to activates is what separates the good players from the great players. I do play my powertech in AP spec and I think all it really needs is a damage boost on some abilities to boost sustained damage. Otherwise it has a well flowing rotation and good amount of survivability.

 

On PT tanking, I must admit, I don't play the spec too much, however I know alot of the theory behind the tank specs so i will speak from that aspect. PT's are passively the most survivable of the 3 tank specs and their trade off for that is in defensive cooldowns. It is not like they don's have any cooldowns. There is Energy Shield, Kolto Overload, Shoulder Cannon (Heal) and Oil Slick, all of which are very strong. Yes they do have less tools for reacting to burst damage, but they are much easier to heal. As for tthe Heat Screens, I think they are are perfectly fine the way that they are. Maybe if there was another way that you could build stacks it would be nice however there is not too much you could with them. Tanking balance as it is in terms of damage taken is almost perfect right now, so any changes could severely disrupt this. They could use a little more group control, however there is already a slow attached to their basic attack and rocket punch, meaning that even though they don't have many tools to root someone in place, they can however keep someone at a distance, or keep an enemy close, with ease.

[Venjirai]

*Added Pyro Merc/Commando Changes

*Modified VG/PT Tanking changes

[Luckyluzi]

instead of a damage reduction on battle focus i would like to see if they could change the 30% defense chance from riot gas to a straight damage reduction (maybe 10-15%) because evading attacks works against many mechanics in the tank tree (you cut down your own chance for generating the absorb stacks, gaining the stock strike reset etc while riot gas is active because a high defense chance results in a lesser amount of attacks being shielded) or these mechanics should also trigger if you evade an attack

[Uber_the_Goober]

2.) No one is losing half their HP in a single shot. Quit exaggerating.

 

But...But...that one time this min/maxed Obroan guy hit me for 14k. Although...I had no expertise and only 27k hp...so...

 

 

[Venjirai]

instead of a damage reduction on battle focus i would like to see if they could change the 30% defense chance from riot gas to a straight damage reduction (maybe 10-15%) because evading attacks works against many mechanics in the tank tree (you cut down your own chance for generating the absorb stacks, gaining the stock strike reset etc while riot gas is active because a high defense chance results in a lesser amount of attacks being shielded) or these mechanics should also trigger if you evade an attack

 

Good point.

I included this change in my initial post.

[NathanielStarr]

Powertechs do not need any buffs.

[Venjirai]

Powertechs do not need any buffs.

 

That's not true.

Vanguard tanks need the most help and dps could use minor buffs.

[Sappharan]

I really like your Combat suggestions Venjirai.

[Venjirai]

I really like your Combat suggestions Venjirai.

 

Yes.

Its little things like those which can make a huge difference.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Venjirai

[jack__]

That's not true.

Vanguard tanks need the most help and dps could use minor buffs.

 

They don't need a buff to their defensive abilities. Powertechs have less defensives but more passive mitigation. They could use a small help on the control front but that is it. The most balanced thing about the classes right now is the tank balance, with only very slight variations in performance. This is impressive considering the wildly varying skills that they have. Any buffs to a tanks survivability will severely affect the balance as it is and place the class easily in front of the rest. In addition if explosive fuel and oil slick were all damage reduction cooldowns, then you could have a very long uptime on at least one DR move.

[madtycoon]

• Salvation/Revivification now gives all targets who are in the area upon activation a HoT for 10 seconds which heals 50% of the maximum heal. Targets who stay in the area for up to 10 seconds also get the other 50% of the heal.
  
• After activating Healing Trance/Innervate your next Deliverance/Dark Infusion is immune to interrupts (15 sec cd)
  

 

would make them way too strong

[Ashuranrx]

For Marauders:

 

Cloak of Annihilation should be replaced completely with another skill that increases the rage generated by Battering Assault by 1/2 points. I took this idea from the Juggernaut tree, and it should help with rage problems for both Annihilation and Carnage spec.