BW I beg you... never follow Blizzard with the CM

[Infernixx]

Wow, that's amazing!!!! You must be kin to Nostradamus.....to think a mmo going on it's 10 year would drop in subs!!! You mean to say it's not going to go on forever at the same amount of players???!!!!

 

Woooo man!!!! Holy crap!!!!!! Hold the phone we have a fortune teller here!!!

 

I'm glad we in agreement that the game's time is past and that it'll never achieve what it was only a few years ago.

 

I have to admit, I'll be glad when its numbers drop down into the range of the rest of the MMOs on the market so that fawning fanatics will stop pretending that it's a good game or something.

[CosmicKat]

Ahh, but you fail to grasp the larger picture. WoW is the workhorse of that company. It has, for many years, been the revenue stream that they've poured into their other games and expansions. Star Craft and Diablo and the canceled/restarted TITAN. But, no longer, the stream of revenue is down to half of what it was, and if you want to see fury, tell your stockholders that your former #1 revenue stream is down to 50% of what it was...

 

Sure, they're still making profit, but not what it was making only a few years ago and 'that' is what people will focus on. Not that it's profitable, but that its profits are nothing of what they were only a few years ago. It's about Expectations and the perception of failure. Regardless as to how things 'are', this is how they are perceived at the moment:

 

1) Sub revenue is down by half.

 

2) A major push is being made for their in-game store, their version of the CM.

 

3) That the game itself is old and tired and people are becoming suspicious that the developers are now more concerned with milking their existing player base than they are with creating good content.

 

4) That their newest expansion has 'nothing' new to offer except updated character models and a twist on our own companion system.

 

Until they take steps to change this perception, I fully expect the game to continue to bleed subs by the millions per year until only the most hardcore of players are left and the game joins the likes of EQ and NWN as a long lasting but nearly forgotten MMO.

 

So in summary....

 

TOR's less than 500k subscribers is great.

WoW's more than 7 million subscribers is bad,

 

TOR's cash shop is great.

WoW's cash shop is bad.

 

Got it.

[Infernixx]

So in summary....

 

TOR's less than 500k subscribers is great.

WoW's more than 7 million subscribers is bad,

 

TOR's cash shop is great.

WoW's cash shop is bad.

 

Got it.

 

Yep, you nailed it. Did you need me to detail why?

[CosmicKat]

Yep, you nailed it. Did you need me to detail why?

 

I can do it for you.

 

Bioware is great.

Blizzard is bad.

[sandyrocks]

I can do it for you.

 

Bioware is great.

Blizzard is bad.

 

No logic in the thinking...blinded by hate for one and love for the other to the point that he's half short bus.

[mecher]

As a main tank in SW:TOR that's excactly what i found myself doing in most encounters. Standing and hitting buttons on my mouse for keybinds. Ofcourse not all bosses where like that. ( Dread palace nad dread fortress probably made me move the most ) but anything else really is just as you stated about WoW

 

I don't remember ever saying SW:TOR was much different. In fact I mentioned that it wasn't with the "ruined an entire genre" part of my comments. The only reason why I'm subbed is for the stories.

 

Stop with the strawman, assuming you guys have anything else besides logical fallacies.

[mecher]

I can do it for you.

 

Bioware is great.

Blizzard is bad.

 

More logical fallacies.

 

I'm banned from the Bioware forums for my bashing of DA2.

 

Fail more, WoW defenders.

Edited February 19, 2014 by mecher

[chuixupu]

Ahh, but you fail to grasp the larger picture. WoW is the workhorse of that company. It has, for many years, been the revenue stream that they've poured into their other games and expansions. Star Craft and Diablo and the canceled/restarted TITAN. But, no longer, the stream of revenue is down to half of what it was, and if you want to see fury, tell your stockholders that your former #1 revenue stream is down to 50% of what it was...

 

Sure, they're still making profit, but not what it was making only a few years ago and 'that' is what people will focus on. Not that it's profitable, but that its profits are nothing of what they were only a few years ago. It's about Expectations and the perception of failure. Regardless as to how things 'are', this is how they are perceived at the moment:

 

1) Sub revenue is down by half.

 

2) A major push is being made for their in-game store, their version of the CM.

 

3) That the game itself is old and tired and people are becoming suspicious that the developers are now more concerned with milking their existing player base than they are with creating good content.

 

4) That their newest expansion has 'nothing' new to offer except updated character models and a twist on our own companion system.

 

Until they take steps to change this perception, I fully expect the game to continue to bleed subs by the millions per year until only the most hardcore of players are left and the game joins the likes of EQ and NWN as a long lasting but nearly forgotten MMO.

 

None of this is factual. Kind of more like ramblings of someone who just wants to downplay the success of Activision-blizzard for no other reason than....I don't know, beats me. It's not even really relevant to the thread.

Just let it go and stick to talking about SWTOR, A-B made all time high profits in 2012 and only fractionally slipped in 2013. Despite people cursing WoW and claiming it will be wiped out by some other MMO for nearly a decade, it will still be trucking along for years until Blizzard makes WoW 2.

[Hezip]

Sometimes i think Bioware would have just been better off doing KOTOR 3 and showing us the follow up to KOTOR 2.

 

But then again a star wars mmo is great. Idea was good, final product is meh..

[sandyrocks]

I don't remember ever saying SW:TOR was much different. In fact I mentioned that it wasn't with the "ruined an entire genre" part of my comments. The only reason why I'm subbed is for the stories.

 

Stop with the strawman, assuming you guys have anything else besides logical fallacies.

 

"ruined an entire genre" is an opinion and a pretty damn weak one considering there are more mmo players now than ever probably. "ruined an entire genre" to you maybe but obviously not everyone agrees.

[Infernixx]

I can do it for you.

 

Bioware is great.

Blizzard is bad.

 

Well, you flunked that test pretty bad. Here, I'll lay it out for you:

 

Losing half your sub base in over two expansions with no sign of that trend ending: Bad. It shows a horrible trend of lost revenue and disembowels the notion that the game is fine. Anyone with a head for business will tell you, if you lose half your customers, something is very very wrong and people should be fired and vast changes made.

 

Stifling a sub loss and rebuilding a player base by focusing on story and cosmetic features: Good.

 

The perceptions between the two are very different. One has a perception of a dying game with nothing in the way of innovation or excitement, while the other is actually the 'source' for the former game's only new 'feature' in 2 years. But then WoW has never been an original game, having mastered the art of stealing the best ideas from other games.

 

Now, as to the in-game store: Selling high-level characters is nothing more than a money grab, reliant on lazy players and FOTM favorites who don't want to actually level through the game.

 

Whereas with TOR, the only thing the CM sells are cosmetic features and toys. Nothing else.

 

I suppose when you boil it down, WoW is basically crap these days. I almost feel bad for people who've got characters in there close to a decade old and they look around and see a bunch of P2W stuff coming and there's nothing they can do.

 

Ah well. Such is life.

[Hezip]

I don't remember ever saying SW:TOR was much different. In fact I mentioned that it wasn't with the "ruined an entire genre" part of my comments. The only reason why I'm subbed is for the stories.

 

Stop with the strawman, assuming you guys have anything else besides logical fallacies.

 

You said wow is dumbed down by assumeing the raids just require you to stand.

Even though they probably aren't that way, that owuld mean you assume SW:TOR is dumbed down?

If you're here for the stories then don't take part in end-game content PvE discussion because you end up talking stuff you don't know about.

[BadOrb]

Say what you will about WoW but saying they screwed up is about one of the stupidest claims you can make considering the amount of players they have.

 

Fact is no other MMO has come even remotely close to Blizzards success with WoW. I don't need to defend WoW, the numbers do that just fine.

 

Ha ha you watch those numbers drop over the next 18 months , and by quite a lot.

 

They wan't to strangle their game and make some extra money so leave them to it.

 

I pray to god that nothing like this ever happens to this game.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

Edited February 19, 2014 by BadOrb

[Infernixx]

None of this is factual. Kind of more like ramblings of someone who just wants to downplay the success of Activision-blizzard for no other reason than....I don't know, beats me. It's not even really relevant to the thread.

Just let it go and stick to talking about SWTOR, A-B made all time high profits in 2012 and only fractionally slipped in 2013. Despite people cursing WoW and claiming it will be wiped out by some other MMO for nearly a decade, it will still be trucking along for years until Blizzard makes WoW 2.

 

I'm so sorry, did you somehow come to the mistaken conclusion that I was talking about the parent company of WoW?

 

You are, of course, still free to address what I said about the 'game' and not the parent company, however. Of course, it's hard to dispute a loss of 4.something million subscribers in 4 years.

[Grayseven]

It also kills income for leveling services. Most of the WoW spam had power leveling going for 90 bucks a pop and when this goes live they'll have to drop it down below 60 bucks to compete (and have people risk compromising their system/account security).

 

Has WoW started selling Gold yet? That's what I've been expecting for some time.

[mecher]

You said wow is dumbed down by assumeing the raids just require you to stand.

Even though they probably aren't that way, that owuld mean you assume SW:TOR is dumbed down?

If you're here for the stories then don't take part in end-game content PvE discussion because you end up talking stuff you don't know about.

 

Lol, the end game content in this game is a massive joke, just like in WoW. Hence why it suffered a massive drop of subs shortly after launch. There was so little of it, and what was there was meh at the very best.

 

This is objective fact. They copied WoW way too much.

[Hezip]

Well, you flunked that test pretty bad. Here, I'll lay it out for you:

 

Losing half your sub base in over two expansions with no sign of that trend ending: Bad. It shows a horrible trend of lost revenue and disembowels the notion that the game is fine. Anyone with a head for business will tell you, if you lose half your customers, something is very very wrong and people should be fired and vast changes made.

 

Stifling a sub loss and rebuilding a player base by focusing on story and cosmetic features: Good.

 

The perceptions between the two are very different. One has a perception of a dying game with nothing in the way of innovation or excitement, while the other is actually the 'source' for the former game's only new 'feature' in 2 years. But then WoW has never been an original game, having mastered the art of stealing the best ideas from other games.

 

Now, as to the in-game store: Selling high-level characters is nothing more than a money grab, reliant on lazy players and FOTM favorites who don't want to actually level through the game.

 

Whereas with TOR, the only thing the CM sells are cosmetic features and toys. Nothing else.

 

I suppose when you boil it down, WoW is basically crap these days. I almost feel bad for people who've got characters in there close to a decade old and they look around and see a bunch of P2W stuff coming and there's nothing they can do.

 

Ah well. Such is life.

 

On my thread it was pretty much discussed last night about that level 90 boost. Most players can't be bothered to level their # alt to level 55 so what do you think about all those people who want to level their # alt where there will be 100 levels?! The leveling in WoW is a lot slower that in SW:TOR and i have experience to leveling to 85 with a 20x exp boost ( Private server newb ftw ) and it still took a good amount.As you say wow lost ''nearlyhalf'' its subscribers, iirc wasn't the highest sub peak for wow around 12 million? Anyways atm wow has 7.8 million players after a decade

 

while SW:TOR lost about 3/4 of its subscribers in less than a year, sad but true

[mecher]

"ruined an entire genre" is an opinion and a pretty damn weak one considering there are more mmo players now than ever probably. "ruined an entire genre" to you maybe but obviously not everyone agrees.

 

Really, it's an opinion that WoW ruined an entire genre?

 

What is the biggest complaint people have about MMOs post-WoW?

 

That it is too much like WoW in the first place. Many MMOs have the exact same key bindings as WoW. Never mind having the same exact gameplay of WoW.

 

More MMO players then ever? LOL. Wrong, the number of MMO players have in fact, dropped. MOBAs are replacing MMOs as the social games to play.

 

You guys just bounce off facts when they come to you.

[Hezip]

Lol, the end game content in this game is a massive joke, just like in WoW. Hence why it suffered a massive drop of subs shortly after launch. There was so little of it, and what was there was meh at the very best.

 

This is objective fact. They copied WoW way too much.

 

End-game content is a joke in WoW yet out of those 7.8 million subscribers atleast 3/4 of em do end-game content.

SW:TOR lost it's subs for lack of end-game content,yes. But also by how buggy and glitchy etc. it was. Crashes on ilum for the enging couldn't handle massive world pvp and once they changed ilum lot's of PvP'ers left.

and so on..

[mecher]

End-game content is a joke in WoW yet out of those 7.8 million subscribers atleast 3/4 of em do end-game content.

SW:TOR lost it's subs for lack of end-game content,yes. But also by how buggy and glitchy etc. it was. Crashes on ilum for the enging couldn't handle massive world pvp and once they changed ilum lot's of PvP'ers left.

and so on..

 

Millions of people smoke cigs, which have been proven to be unhealthy as can be. Based on your "logic" cigs must be great for you if so many people are doing it!

 

Nice "logic!"

[Hezip]

Millions of people smoke cigs, which have been proven to be unhealthy as can be. Based on your "logic" cigs must be great for you if so many people are doing it!

 

Nice "logic!"

 

Did you just compare ciggarates to an MMO game that adults and the younger play?

Not sure if serious or just trolling.

[mecher]

Did you just compare ciggarates to an MMO game that adults and the younger play?

Not sure if serious or just trolling.

 

So you're saying adults and younger don't smoke? Hate to tell you, but young teens do get a hold of cigs all the time and smoke them. Did you live a sheltered life?

 

You guys are the ones saying because a lot of people do it, it must be good.

 

A lot of people smoke cigs, therefore that must be good as well.

 

I find it hilarious when your own logic is used against you, you call it trolling.

Edited February 19, 2014 by mecher

[Hezip]

So you're saying adults and younger don't smoke? Hate to tell you, but young teens do get a hold of cigs all the time and smoke them. Did you live a sheltered life?

 

You guys are the ones saying because a lot of people do it, it must be good.

 

A lot of people smoke cigs, therefore that must be good as well.

 

I find it hilarious when your own logic is used against you, you call it trolling.

 

I nevere said young teens don't smoke :L ? I know this myself from past experience.

But really at the end of the day you can't compare something like that to a game. Both are supposed to relax you but at the end of they day cig's is a bad metaphor to a game,which is happening virtually.

 

But clearly the highest vote is end-game content, look it, you don't like the way its played? That's alright but there's is seriously no need to go past your opinions of it. Just play the game the way you like it. I love Raids and PvP in some cases, and i will continue to do that when i get to WoW.

 

Saying that people have no logic because your metaphors are over-exghagurated is just as bad.

[arunav]

I found that:

 

http://wow.joystiq.com/2014/02/18/level-90-boost-is-up-on-live-servers-for-60/

 

RIP WoW gameplay we will miss you

 

Won't happen in this game, because the CM makes the most money when players have lots of alts and spend time leveling, in addition to doing endgame.

 

If folks just had 55s through buying them, they would run out of things to do quickly, and then EA would loose a lot of money from the CM, as people would just move on.

 

SWTOR is a different type of game than WoW, in that the leveling is in many ways the best part.

Edited February 19, 2014 by arunav

[mecher]

I nevere said young teens don't smoke :L ? I know this myself from past experience.

But really at the end of the day you can't compare something like that to a game. Both are supposed to relax you but at the end of they day cig's is a bad metaphor to a game,which is happening virtually.

 

But clearly the highest vote is end-game content, look it, you don't like the way its played? That's alright but there's is seriously no need to go past your opinions of it. Just play the game the way you like it. I love Raids and PvP in some cases, and i will continue to do that when i get to WoW.

 

Saying that people have no logic because your metaphors are over-exghagurated is just as bad.

 

You are the one saying just because a lot of people do it it must be good.

 

Again, I find it hilarious then when this very argument is used against you, you guys called it bad, trolling, etc.

 

It's almost as if I'm right, and you just can't handle that fact.

 

Again, either stop using the argument you guys yourselves are calling bad, or admit I'm right. Because either the whole it's popular therefore it's good argument is right all the time. Or it's just a poor argument.

 

Fine, let's stick with games. I guess Farmvile was a great "game" then, or any other popular facebook "game." Or Angry Birds, clearly one of the best games ever with over a 100 million downloads on one platform for just one version of the game.