Convince me that Smash spec will not be obsolete now...

[EzioMessi]

Deadly Throw works just as well as Obliterate does. It's keep you in melee range, and it last longer. Plus Camo breaks the slow on Electronet, and has 50% damage reduction.

 

Besides all that, Ataru has a built in 15% speed boost. All this means you have WAY more tools to avoid being kited being Carnie than you do as a Smasher.

 

All the subjective "if I do this" stuff don't apply. I'll post it again in case you missed it...

 

Small correction. Electronet disables Force Camo, so it can't break that snare.

 

Other than that, yeah. I agree that Combat is one of the hardest specs to kite against.

Edited February 15, 2014 by EzioMessi

[ZooMzy]

Don't judge me personally nor my skill level when you have absolutely no idea of both, the sheer fact that you proclaim things about my skill level without knowing it is proof that you bring down people for no reason, now go talk some more about ego-effects

 

Can do.

 

You see, the person blinded by pride is relatively simple to understand. You attempted to make the "udontknowmebro" argument right there, yet the proof is clear:

 

1) I have a very good understanding of both, as I have been watching your conversation and reading it here. Your overall point is a joke, rooted in this opinion that you have the advantage in terms of being able to resist kiting when you actually don't (a predation, root breaker, and a CC breaker don't necessarily give you the upper hand when your enemy has the ability to root, stun, knockback, slow and use a 200% speed boost to get away from you, not to mention the effects of utilizing the environment to LoS/restrict your movement). You also have shown me you are insecure, proving the point that I do actually know how you operate by responding to a post I made where it's basically outlined with "if you are using your head, don't respond to this".

 

Which, since I know your little mind can't really comprehend that final part, I'll go into a little detail. Why would you take the time to try and command me to avoid making an ignorant judgment about you if you do not connect this conversation to yourself personally? Why do you care about a post and comment specifically rooted in the concept of clear trolling (which btw, trolling is the act of deriving an emotion out of another specifically for the purpose of getting the emotional reaction) if you were only looking at this conversation with a rational thinking mind?

 

Simple: You aren't. The only logical reason for you to even acknowledge my presence is out of a wounded ego because the only purpose of my post was to challenge you to an epeen measuring contest. Like the overconfident child you are, you couldn't resist someone you've never met bad mouthing you as not only a player, but as an individual.

 

Your pride won't let this go, you aren't fighting this other guy using a rational mind. The first step to solving the problem is admitting it, and it's ok for you to realize just how arrogant you are.

 

See that sentence above? I'm trolling you, it is specifically designed to make you mad.

 

Please prove my point further by jumping on it like a b**** in heat.

[cashogy_reborn]

Carnage get shutdown by Mercs? Ha ha

[HaoZhao]

Deadly Throw works just as well as Obliterate does. It's keep you in melee range, and it last longer. Plus Camo breaks the slow on Electronet, and has 50% damage reduction. Besides all that, Ataru has a built in 15% speed boost. All this means you have WAY more tools to avoid being kited being Carnie than you do as a Smasher. All the subjective "if I do this" stuff don't apply. I'll post it again in case you missed it...

 

You're right to point out that Ataru form has a 15% speed boost. I was wrong in an earlier post to claim that electronet and HO negate predation. You know the class better than the other guy, so thanks for pointing that out.

 

Unfortunately, you were the one who missed something. When I jokingly mentioned that I too enjoy using camo, force speed, and cloaking screen during electro net earlier, I think you missed a very important point.

 

Carnage get shutdown by Mercs? Ha ha

 

Not killed by merc of course, but trolled into impotence.

Edited February 15, 2014 by HaoZhao

[Raansu]

Yes, dear. That was my point. You ravage for the root. Otherwise you get kited. You're quite correct that carnage typically relies on players not paying attention. Like concealment, it's a fun class to pray on bad players with. We're talking about trying to kill a mercenary. Good luck rooting a root-proof mercenary who has you in electro net, I guess. I agree that you would have to rely on another playing force that merc to blow his CDs. Carnage is a great class as long as you have someone to do the work for you. Okay, I'm being too harsh. Even if carnage gets easily shut down by all mercenaries, it's still good against other classes, right? I can't remember what those classes are, but they're out there!

 

*rolls eyes*

 

You keep believing that while the top teams continue to win using carnage marauders.

[HaoZhao]

*rolls eyes*

 

You keep believing that while the top teams continue to win using carnage marauders.

 

Are these the same top teams that use concealment in ranked 8 vs. 8? I've heard of them! I've never seen them, but oh, boy, I've heard the tales! Oh, and I hear that vengeance is the greatest of all time as well now. I haven't seen them around either, but lots of stories about how powerful and broken they are! Yes, sir, lots of stories.

[Tevzz]

slow and use a 200% speed boost to get away from you, .

 

Get your facts straight and stop posting trash -.-'' You call the thing from Kolto Residue a slow?

It's not even a question of ego anymore...You and Hao have absolutely no clue of what the heck you're talking about, whether defending your point or arguing against the oppositions.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Tevzz

[Raansu]

Are these the same top teams that use concealment in ranked 8 vs. 8? I've heard of them! I've never seen them, but oh, boy, I've heard the tales! Oh, and I hear that vengeance is the greatest of all time as well now. I haven't seen them around either, but lots of stories about how powerful and broken they are! Yes, sir, lots of stories.

 

I seriously can't tell if you are trolling or just really ignorant so I'm just going to say you're a pve player who doesn't know the first thing about pvp but likes to pretend he knows a lot.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Raansu

[HaoZhao]

I seriously can't tell if you are trolling are just really ignorant so I'm just going to say you're a pve player who doesn't know the first thing about pvp but likes to pretend he knows a lot.

 

No, YOU'RE a PVE player doesn't know anything about PVP! Ouch! I just turned your own argument against you in all of its complexity! That's gotta hurt, brother.

[Tevzz]

No, YOU'RE a PVE player doesn't know anything about PVP! Ouch! I just turned your own argument against you in all of its complexity! That's gotta hurt, brother.

 

Better learn who you're talking to...you should know him btw if you're been wandering about the SW/JK forums...or even just the PvP forums.

[HaoZhao]

Better learn who you're talking to...you should know him btw if you're been wandering about the SW/JK forums...or even just the PvP forums.

 

"Listen, PAL. If you're coming around here on OUR TURF, you better know who the big boys are!" Were you snapping your fingers with one hand and combing your hair with the other while making that post? Are you dressed like a white, 1950's gangster right now?

 

This is a Star Wars MMORPG. The second I recognize anyone from this board is a sign that I've been playing the game too much and need a break.

[Raansu]

"Listen, PAL. If you're coming around here on OUR TURF, you better know who the big boys are!" Were you snapping your fingers with one hand and combing your hair with the other while making that post? Are you dressed like a white, 1950's gangster right now?

 

This is a Star Wars MMORPG. The second I recognize anyone from this board is a sign that I've been playing the game too much and need a break.

 

Please do take a break. It would be one less person spreading incorrect information about specs.

[HaoZhao]

Please do take a break. It would be one less person spreading incorrect information about specs.

 

I don't know why you're so offended. If I say I'm sorry and that carnage is in fact stun proof, root proof, physics proof, CC proof, electro net proof, and does more DPS than the fury of a million snipers, will you forgive me?

[Tevzz]

"Listen, PAL. If you're coming around here on OUR TURF, you better know who the big boys are!" Were you snapping your fingers with one hand and combing your hair with the other while making that post? Are you dressed like a white, 1950's gangster right now?

 

This is a Star Wars MMORPG. The second I recognize anyone from this board is a sign that I've been playing the game too much and need a break.

 

Lol xD the quoted part wasn't necessary though it proved for a nice mental image. But seriously, the guy knows what he's talking about.

[ZooMzy]

Get your facts straight and stop posting trash -.-'' You call the thing from Kolto Residue a slow?

It's not even a question of ego anymore...You and Hao have absolutely no clue of what the heck you're talking about, whether defending your point or arguing against the oppositions.

 

I was referring to the Sorc class, as a matter of fact. I would think that you wouldn't be too caught up in yourself to see that.

 

When you make a comment in regards to how you can't be kited as a general statement, that means you are claiming all classes/specs don't have a method of effectively kiting you. Meaning, if I bring Sorcs into the conversation, you would be able to aptly claim you have the complete advantage over them as well in terms of resisting kiting.

 

Which again, you don't.

 

Please, feed me more.

[Tevzz]

I was referring to the Sorc class, as a matter of fact. I would think that you wouldn't be too caught up in yourself to see that.

 

When you make a comment in regards to how you can't be kited as a general statement, that means you are claiming all classes/specs don't have a method of effectively kiting you. Meaning, if I bring Sorcs into the conversation, you would be able to aptly claim you have the complete advantage over them as well in terms of resisting kiting.

 

Which again, you don't.

 

Please, feed me more.

 

Would you please learn to read and not make up things? Find where I posted that I couldn't be kited.

My god, it's not L2P anymore its freaking L2R.

[Raansu]

I don't know why you're so offended. If I say I'm sorry and that carnage is in fact stun proof, root proof, physics proof, CC proof, electro net proof, and does more DPS than the fury of a million snipers, will you forgive me?

 

CC's affect every class. Not sure why you think its somehow unique to carnage marauders. Proc on scream and reliance on gore window has its issues, but it doesn't negate the class as a whole since it still has multiple tools to handle those situations when being kited.

 

Carnage overall is a solid spec though really I guess I should let people like you keep thinking otherwise to avoid the scrapper fiasco going on right now. Sadly with the rage nerf everyones going to focus on carnage next.*sigh* Just once why can't people learn how a spec works and actually bother to read patch notes before jumping on the "nerf" bandwagon.

[ZooMzy]

Would you please learn to read and not make up things? Find where I posted that I couldn't be kited.

My god, it's not L2P anymore its freaking L2R.

 

Lol, you didn't make the direct statement.

 

You made it as a generalization that you can't be kited, you provide stories about how easily you can counter an enemy's tactics without actually realizing you aren't making a stance against it from a class/ability point of view. This whole argument stems from that single BA mark you attempted to make in regards to how Carnage Marauders are superior, especially in regards to your argument against being shut down/kited effectively.

 

Oh look, I was wrong. You make it right here, in this single post:

 

Yeah, see how you kite me while I'm running with 80% movement speed around your *** all the time ROFL

Tell me who can hold Skilled OP healers? NOBODY, even less smash monkeys, they're utter shet at putting pressure on a single target who's healing himself/getting healed. There's something called "Predation" it's often your solution to all the kiting problems and the amount of people who use it just proves how many people have no damn clue as how to play carnage.

[Raansu]

I was referring to the Sorc class, as a matter of fact. I would think that you wouldn't be too caught up in yourself to see that.

 

When you make a comment in regards to how you can't be kited as a general statement, that means you are claiming all classes/specs don't have a method of effectively kiting you. Meaning, if I bring Sorcs into the conversation, you would be able to aptly claim you have the complete advantage over them as well in terms of resisting kiting.

 

Which again, you don't.

 

Please, feed me more.

 

Equally skilled a carnage will beat a madness sorc every time. And its not that carnage cant be kited, its just a difficult thing to do. Too many situations favor the carnage player. They have 3 ways to negate force speed. If you stun them they will just leap to you after you force speed away. If you dont stun them they will choke, mez or root you, You only have one stun so the CC breaker will be saved for that. They can break the root with camo and they have a 30m slow and a melee slow on top of two roots and a movement speed with predation.

 

Lightning sorcs would be a bit more difficult with the bubble mez but the knockback root is negated by camo and again speed is easily counted in several scenarios. So bubble mez is the only thing you have to look out for and marauders have 4 ways to stay out of range of it and pop it before moving closer.

[Tevzz]

Lol, you didn't make the direct statement.

 

You made it as a generalization that you can't be kited, you provide stories about how easily you can counter an enemy's tactics without actually realizing you aren't making a stance against it from a class/ability point of view. This whole argument stems from that single BA mark you attempted to make in regards to how Carnage Marauders are superior, especially in regards to your argument against being shut down/kited effectively.

 

Oh look, I was wrong. You make it right here, in this single post:

 

Not taking a stance? This whole talk has been about countering a merc healer, as somebody who claims they've read the posts you should have seen that and therefore deduced that I was talking about Mercs (I was even mentioning which abilities to counter 'Facepalm").

 

Yeah, see how you kite me while I'm running with 80% movement speed around your *** all the time ROFL

Tell me who can hold Skilled OP healers? NOBODY, even less smash monkeys, they're utter shet at putting pressure on a single target who's healing himself/getting healed. There's something called "Predation" it's often your solution to all the kiting problems and the amount of people who use it just proves how many people have no damn clue as how to play carnage.

 

Do I need to repeat L2R again?

[Devilk]

HaoZhao you are either incredibly delusional or you are very good at trolling.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

I'm worried that the changes to Smash for Jug/Guard coming in 2.7 will make the spec obsolete compared to Vigilance/Vengeance spec. Please someone tell me that I am wrong. It's just that, as a single target spec, Vig/Veng will outperform Smash in my experience. So, by gutting the aoe on Smash, where does that leave the spec, other than as just an inferior single target spec??

 

I cannot wait to see the smash monkeys whining and wailing when the axe falls. Too long have you infested our game world with your over simplified play style.

 

The game no longer needs a starter class.

[Tankqull]

The game no longer needs a starter class.

 

no class in this game is difficult to play at all, wich makes every class a starter class

 

@ OP

smash will be fine jugg/guardian is the problem as not viable currently and won´t be after 2.7

 

regarding the carnage smash "discussion"(its mor of a flamewar though), i guess no one will argue that from an utility aspect carnage > rage.

what alot of carnage player do not like is the fact that in pvp singeltarget dps of carnage<rage

 

let me back this up before you start your *****torm with some numbers.

as allready statet in this thread maro/sent singeltarget trainingsdummy dps is at

carngae ~3.8k

rage ~3.5k

problem is the trainings dummy represents ideal circumstances for the carnage spec, while being suboptimal for rage as it doesent fight back wich hampers the centering/fury build significantly wich as zen/berserk can be used less freequently hampers the focus generation alot (no need to use the focus generating attack at all in pvp while relying to it at the dummy often. on the other hand pvp is a suboptimal situation for carnage as severe cc usage defensive CD etc. dimnish the effective use of the gore window the numbers above when you consider the denial of every second gore window and add some more focus generation will turn to

carnage ~3.2-2.8k

rage~3,8k

tada ... rage ST-dps > carnage ST-dps

 

observing the same issue from another angular,

as both specs use the same styles the unmodified values are identical, so all we have to compare are dmg increasing specboni.

Rage:                                                                                        Carnage:
30% armor reduce passive                                                       -
9% dmg increase after smash                                                  -
15% surge increase for every attack                                       -
7,5% critrating for vicous-/slash/-throw/dispatch                     -

                                                        Special attacks
smash +120%base-dmg +190-195% garanteed crit             force scream 205-210% garateed crit value
force crush 90%snare ing dot                                               masacre 30% increased surge
-                                                                                              gore 4.5sec 100% armor reduce
-                                                                                               additional dispatch/vicousthrow every 20sec(in 99% of the times it is 
                                                                                                only an unrestriced one than an additional one)

if you can use gore to 100% effectivity both have comparable singeltarget dps values(while carnage is more spikey) but its quite obvious that outside of the gore window carnage dmg << rage dmg and that window is easily disturbed.

[Raynezazki]

Here I am playing my madness sorc (which still hasn't had a decent fix for force management issues) playing the smallest violin for you smashers.

[HaoZhao]

CC's affect every class. Not sure why you think its somehow unique to carnage marauders. Proc on scream and reliance on gore window has its issues, but it doesn't negate the class as a whole since it still has multiple tools to handle those situations when being kited.

 

Carnage overall is a solid spec though really I guess I should let people like you keep thinking otherwise to avoid the scrapper fiasco going on right now. Sadly with the rage nerf everyones going to focus on carnage next.*sigh* Just once why can't people learn how a spec works and actually bother to read patch notes before jumping on the "nerf" bandwagon.

 

Out of curiosity, did you read the topic BEFORE posting in it like a fake, internet tough guy? I don't think you did, because my post clearly went right over your head. See, what you've done here is argue that I am right. I was arguing with an angry person who tried to convince me that carnage is CC proof. Thank you for your support of my posts. I deeply appreciate it.

 

Feel free to respond with more bitter, internet aggression as a means of avoiding actually saying anything substantive though! Posts to the tune of "lulz you're just a newb and u dont no nuttin" aren't just for 4chan in 2005 anymore! You've brought them back into style! Good for you, honey!

Edited February 15, 2014 by HaoZhao