Convince me that Smash spec will not be obsolete now...

[Tevzz]

Oh, I read your excuses. You clearly said one thing and you want to convince me you meant something else completely. I don't believe you.

 

When I say something I know what I wanna say by it, I don't want to convince you of anything, you're just wrong, plain and simple, there's nothing to be convinced about, If you don't wanna believe me, fine, I don't really care, anybody could figure out who's right and who's coming up with pathetic excuses coz he's ran out of argument

 

 

When I rolled my eyes at your constant rage fits, that time I was referring to you claiming you were going to stop responding. That was a bad internet rage moment for you. This was the answer you gave in regard to your blatant lie. Talking about your giant rage text doesn't answer my question, but it's what you went with, and I respected that by constantly pointing out that you brag about begging for attention!

 

Are you my psychiatrist to know when I rage? Just because I put stuff in red or bolded, or in font 7 doesn't mean I'm raging, I'm trying to attract your attention to parts of the post that YOU SHOULD READ (see what I did here?)

Where do I brag about begging for attention?

 

Have I asked for attention once, I said I was going to eat and shower coz I needed to, and I didn't want you to think 'Oh yay he gave up", coz I didn't. I proved you wrong, I dunno how many more times and you just kept repeating these same lines:

 

begging for attention

desperate to save face

you're claiming you had to beg for more attention from me

constantly begging for attention from others

too embarrassed

 

You realize these 5 lines made up about 40% of your argument right? if not better go re-read these posts...

[HaoZhao]

When I say something I know what I wanna say by it, I don't want to convince you of anything, you're just wrong, plain and simple, there's nothing to be convinced about, If you don't wanna believe me, fine, I don't really care, anybody could figure out who's right and who's coming up with pathetic excuses coz he's ran out of argument Are you my psychiatrist to know when I rage? Just because I put stuff in red or bolded, or in font 7 doesn't mean I'm raging, I'm trying to attract your attention to parts of the post that YOU SHOULD READ (see what I did here?) Where do I brag about begging for attention? Have I asked for attention once, I said I was going to eat and shower coz I needed to, and I didn't want you to think 'Oh yay he gave up", coz I didn't. I proved you wrong, I dunno how many more times and you just kept repeating these same lines: You realize these 5 lines made up about 40% of your argument right? if not better go re-read these posts...

 

You're not even arguing anything anymore. You're simply justifying yourself to me.

 

I'm done quoting you, you're freaking incompetent.

 

This is what you said. Unfortunately, after this rage fit, post #7209596 seemed to vanish. I don't like to comment on whatever the mods do. That's really between you and them. If you want to convince them that you don't rage and to bring your post back, that's none of my business.

 

What matter isn't the childish flaming. What matters is that you lied. You said you were done quoting me, and then you quoted me like 30 more times. You have a problem telling the truth. Just like when you claimed that marauders are impossible to kite.

[L-RANDLE]

**Snip... When I rolled my eyes...

I rolled my eyes when you said this:

 

it's also easily kited. Once you've interrupted ravage, they've lost their only close range root.

 

You haven't taken the time to read the spec, let alone play it. But as I said, keep on with the deflection of the issue, its /popcorn worthy....

[Tevzz]

You're not even arguing anything anymore. You're simply justifying yourself to me.

 

 

 

This is what you said. Unfortunately, after this rage fit, post #7209596 seemed to vanish. I don't like to comment on whatever the mods do. That's really between you and them. If you want to convince them that you don't rage and to bring your post back, that's none of my business.

 

What matter isn't the childish flaming. What matters is that you lied. You said you were done quoting me, and then you quoted me like 30 more times. You have a problem telling the truth. Just like when you claimed that marauders are impossible to kite.

 

It vanished because Bioware erased it off the forums and gave me a warning for being too rough with you...that's why it vanished LOL

[L-RANDLE]

On a side note, I would like to hear what the Mando rep has to say about it.

 

Care to chime in Cash?

[Tevzz]

On a side note, I would like to hear what the Mando rep has to say about it.

 

Care to chime in Cash?

 

He told us to shut our traps, probably because we're too bad for him to even bother xD

[HaoZhao]

I rolled my eyes when you said this: You haven't taken the time to read the spec, let alone play it. But as I said, keep on with the deflection of the issue, its /popcorn worthy....

 

Context, dear. After ravage is popped, HO comes after and you can't root HO. Do less snipping and more reading.

 

But if you want to participate so badly, I welcome you. Please tell me that you endorse the idea that carnage is impossible to kite and is 100% immune to electro net. I'm not going to force the other guy's bad arguments on you because that would be cruel, so you can distance yourself from them if you'd like.

[HaoZhao]

It vanished because Bioware erased it off the forums and gave me a warning for being too rough with you...that's why it vanished LOL

 

Like I said, it's none of my business why BioWare deleted your rage posts. That's between you and the mods.

 

What matters is that you lied about leaving. Why did you do that?

[Tevzz]

Like I said, it's none of my business why BioWare deleted your rage posts. That's between you and the mods.

 

What matters is that you lied about leaving. Why did you do that?

 

Because I found it worthy to stay and argue.

 

To be honest though, I didn't expect us to get here, but now the will to argue is sort of starting to die...in the end I realize that we're totally off topic (I mean the thread is about smash, we wrote about carnage more..) and that we can't possibly know how things are gonna be with smash until the patch hits. Not only that, we're throwing a bunch of 'If you do X, I'll do Y and whoop ur azz", and constantly disagreeing as to what will happen...in the end we're mostly being subjective and stating our beliefs on a situation. It doesn't seem like we can arrive to a compromise either.

[L-RANDLE]

Context, dear. After ravage is popped, HO comes after and you can't root HO. Do less snipping and more reading.

 

But if you want to participate so badly, I welcome you. Please tell me that you endorse the idea that carnage is impossible to kite and is 100% immune to electro net. I'm not going to force the other guy's bad arguments on you because that would be cruel, so you can distance yourself from them if you'd like.

 

Where exactly did you mention electronet in that post? Plus Camo breaks the kiting portion of electronet, so that point doesn't hold much water friend.

 

That is not the point anyway. Are Smashers somehow immune to electro net's snare?

[HaoZhao]

Because I found it worthy to stay and argue. To be honest though, I didn't expect us to get here, but now the will to argue is sort of starting to die...in the end I realize that we're totally off topic (I mean the thread is about smash, we wrote about carnage more..) and that we can't possibly know how things are gonna be with smash until the patch hits. Not only that, we're throwing a bunch of 'If you do X, I'll do Y and whoop ur azz", and constantly disagreeing as to what will happen...in the end we're mostly being subjective and stating our beliefs on a situation. It doesn't seem like we can arrive to a compromise either.

 

Okay, so you said that you weren't going to quote me anymore. But you were angry, so you kept doing it anyway. We have a term for this and it's called "lying." Your super hero stories about how you destroy every class in the game with carnage in ranked doesn't quite convince me when you're caught telling such blatant lies. What compromise can there be when you can't disagree with people without throwing tantrums and flaming them until your posts disappear? I'd rather talk about this with that L-RANDLE guy, because even if he disagrees with me, he's posting like an adult. Maybe you should let him argue for you. He's better at it!

 

Where exactly did you mention electronet in that post? Plus Camo breaks the kiting portion of electronet, so that point doesn't hold much water friend.

 

That is not the point anyway. Are Smashers somehow immune to electro net's snare?

 

I didn't, and that's where context comes in. If you had kept reading, you would have seen what I meant. It's an honest mistake and I wasn't clear in that other post. It happens. I too like to use camo during electro net. I also like to use force speed, cloaking screen, uh...

[ZooMzy]

What matters is that you lied about leaving. Why did you do that?

 

Because people tend to argue with either one of two things:

 

1) Their mind

2) Their ego

 

What you saw there was the mind's desperate attempt to conqueror the ego, to walk away from a situation a sensible thinking person would know has no real chance of garnering respect from an anonymous community. However, because the person in question has an ego that is overwhelming, he failed to walk away from a challenge that truly meant nothing because he wanted to prove himself superior to you, no matter the fact that he would gain nothing from "winning".

 

So in short, he did not lie. He was just not thinking clearly, his pride over his (ironically) little skill in a video game forced him back into fighting with you.

 

Don't blame him for that, we have a lot of those around here.

[Tevzz]

Screw that, time for some Smash publicity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTKoo_Fy774&list=HL1392432347

 

SMASH WHILE YOU CANNNN!!!!!

[L-RANDLE]

I didn't, and that's where context comes in. If you had kept reading, you would have seen what I meant. It's an honest mistake and I wasn't clear in that other post. It happens. I too like to use camo during electro net. I also like to use force speed, cloaking screen, uh...

 

Well you can go round and round with it all you want. You can't "kite", if you can't move either.

 

See how that works?

 

I can make any situation to counter your argument, just like you are trying to do.

[HaoZhao]

Well you can go round and round with it all you want. You can't "kite", if you can't move either. See how that works? I can make any situation to counter your argument, just like you are trying to do.

 

And you can't attack if you're stunned. Yep, it looks like there's lots of counters, none of which involve you actually killing anything with any amount of PVP skill. As long as you stay more than 4 metres back, I'm more than happy to not move. We could come to a mutual agreement to save ourselves some time, eh? We'll stay 5 metres away from each other, and you can force scream me to death.

[Tevzz]

Okay, so you said that you weren't going to quote me anymore. But you were angry, so you kept doing it anyway. We have a term for this and it's called "lying." Your super hero stories about how you destroy every class in the game with carnage in ranked doesn't quite convince me when you're caught telling such blatant lies. What compromise can there be when you can't disagree with people without throwing tantrums and flaming them until your posts disappear? I'd rather talk about this with that L-RANDLE guy, because even if he disagrees with me, he's posting like an adult. Maybe you should let him argue for you. He's better at it!

 

Flagrant over exaggeration, good job, go back and re-read some more.

As I once said, I never threw a tantrum, just because my language seems harsh or sarcastic doesn't mean I'm jumping all over the place eating my toe nails...

 

his pride over his (ironically) little skill in a video game forced him back into fighting with you.

 

Don't blame him for that, we have a lot of those around here.

 

Don't judge me personally nor my skill level when you have absolutely no idea of both, the sheer fact that you proclaim things about my skill level without knowing it is proof that you bring down people for no reason, now go talk some more about ego-effects :)

 

Now, my friend HaoZao,

 

Your CC break doesn't counter electro net, sorry.

 

Does this look familiar? It should very much. Still, after seeing this, I could have totally discredited (like you did with my "lies") everything that you said after, since "Stating bull once, most likely means that all you state after must be bull too" according to your logic. Right?

[L-RANDLE]

And you can't attack if you're stunned. Yep, it looks like there's lots of counters, none of which involve you actually killing anything with any amount of PVP skill. As long as you stay more than 4 metres back, I'm more than happy to not move. We could come to a mutual agreement to save ourselves some time, eh? We'll stay 5 metres away from each other, and you can force scream me to death.

 

Again, you change the situation to suit your needs. Just stop.

 

If you can't do these same exact things against a Smasher, I don't know what to tell you..

[HaoZhao]

Flagrant over exaggeration, good job, go back and re-read some more.

As I once said, I never threw a tantrum, just because my language seems harsh or sarcastic doesn't mean I'm jumping all over the place eating my toe nails... Don't judge me personally nor my skill level when you have absolutely no idea of both, the sheer fact that you proclaim things about my skill level without knowing it is proof that you bring down people for no reason, now go talk some more about ego-effects :) Now, my friend HaoZao, Does this look familiar? It should very much. Still, after seeing this, I could have totally discredited (like you did with my "lies") everything that you said after, since "Stating bull once, most likely means that all you state after must be bull too" according to your logic. Right?

 

Once again, you're trying to get me involved in your fight with the mods. They deleted your post for hyper-rage, not me. Tell your story to them. I don't want to talk about that anymore with you.

 

Judging your skill? But we're judging skill using YOUR standards! You came into this topic to accuse everyone in the world of being bad and awful at the game. Would you like me to quote some of your posts where you judge people's skills? Now you're playing the victim card, claiming I'm "bringing you down." I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, because that wasn't my intent.

 

I didn't lie. CC break doesn't counter electro net. The main purpose of electro net is to shelf you. If you wasted your CC break for anything other than concussive missile, you're going right into CC and you're still shelved. You forgot to quote that part, coincidentally.

Edited February 15, 2014 by HaoZhao

[HaoZhao]

Again, you change the situation to suit your needs. Just stop. If you can't do these same exact things against a Smasher, I don't know what to tell you..

 

Change what situation? I never said on the high cliff of Makeb arena? We're talking about basic abilities that all mercenaries have here. Electro dart isn't a special situation ability, friend. If it's not on cooldown, you're going to be stunned (during gore).

 

Yes, smashers have the same issues, except that have obliterate which helps them spite kiters. Not counting the electro net situation, smashers can charge, get thrown back by jet boost and then charge again. If you get thrown after using charge, what now? Hope you have frenzy off cooldown to waste on predation while walking back?

 

I'm not even saying carnage is a bad class. I haven't played carnage since before 2.5, but when I did play it, I had fun with it. It does have kiting problems. I know it does because I don't find it hard to kite people in ataru form. Maybe you and the other guy are the exception and you're the super marauders who are immune to all CCs and slows. Okay, I'm having a little fun at your expense, but I hope you at least try to see what I'm saying here.

[Tevzz]

Once again, you're trying to get me involved in your fight with the mods. They deleted your post for hyper-rage, not me. Tell your story to them. I don't want to talk about that anymore with you.

 

Judging your skill? But we're judging skill using YOUR standards! You came into this topic to accuse everyone in the world of being bad and awful at the game. Would you like me to quote some of your posts where you judge people's skills? Now you're playing the victim card, claiming I'm "bringing you down." I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, because that wasn't my intent.

 

Where the heck do you get these things from? Like seriously, stop interpreting stuff randomly.

 

I didn't lie. CC break doesn't counter electro net. The main purpose of electro net is to shelf you. If you wasted your CC break for another other than concussive missile, you're going right into CC and you're still shelved. You forgot to quote that part, coincidentally

 

 

Coincidently I'm not, because you'd have to make sure there's no DoT's or no possibility for to get out of it, and unless there's nobody around or I have no DoTs on (Lol good luck with that one), your Concussion goes straight to the trash can, and so does your precious Power Surge, which can be put to much better use. Seems like you forgot to specify something else coincidently...now I'd expect you to get back into the circular argument of "yes but somebody will help me" which is most likely the case; therefore making your Concussion Missile useless.

[HaoZhao]

Where the heck do you get these things from? Like seriously, stop interpreting stuff randomly. Coincidently I'm not, because you'd have to make sure there's no DoT's or no possibility for to get out of it, and unless there's nobody around or I have no DoTs on (Lol good luck with that one), your Concussion goes straight to the trash can, and so does your precious Power Surge, which can be put to much better use. Seems like you forgot to specify something else coincidently...now I'd expect you to get back into the circular argument of "yes but somebody will help me" which is most likely the case; therefore making your Concussion Missile useless.

 

I get them from your posts where you loudly condemn everyone who had an opinion without your permission. Again, your argument relies on a good Samaritan on the other team driving by to give you a DoT so you can be immune to CC. What a nice guy. It's too bad he doesn't exist though. Too bad you're basically arguing that you need help from an enemy player to avoid being shut down by a healing mercenary of all classes. You've failed to impress me, sorry. Like I said, the other guy is much better at getting his point across.

 

Yes, I remember your argument that power surge is better used on healing scan than on concussive missile. Apparently healing scan is so good that it makes up for 8 seconds of free healing, or even just leaving? Did they buff healing scan 2.7 without my knowledge?

Edited February 15, 2014 by HaoZhao

[Raansu]

You don't really have a choice though, do you? Because if you don't charge, gore, ravage, you won't have have a chance of putting a scratch on anyone who can fight you at even medium range

 

You realize most of carnage damage does not come from gore>ravage right? Most carnage players just use it as a root and only gore > ravage if they are whitebarred or if they know the player is either not paying attention or they know they already blew a CD on knockbacks/stuns.

 

Being a bad marauder since launch isn't really a point in anyone's favour. You can't avoid rage marauders forever because they have obliterate and smash is instant, not channelled. Carnage is not only easily shut down, but it's also easily kited. Once you've interrupted ravage, they've lost their only close range root. If they used up charge to get to you, then you also don't have to worry about the root from that. Even low-tier DPS classes like mercenaries are laughing at carnage marauders because of how easy it is to kite them. You don't even have to kite them indefinitely. Just keep them out of range when they pop gore and they become a non-threat.

 

Not sure how they are easily kited...30m leap, root on ravage, root on deadly throw, leg slash which is a slow, force choke for a stun, and force camo breaks roots. Carnage has plenty of options to avoid being kited.

 

Except that doesn't happen. Predation requires 30 stacks of fury. To get those you need to use up Frenzy which has a 150 second cool down. Once every two and a half minutes you can move fast for 10 seconds. Wow, that makes you about as lethal as concealment operatives. lmao I can tell you really thought that one through!

 

Please teach me, sensei.

 

......

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/bez9xJE/short-fuse

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/5w67nwO/defensive-forms

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/faIUBGl/brooding

 

If you're going to talk about a spec, at least try and do some research and learn the basics of how said spec works.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Raansu

[Tevzz]

I get them from your posts where you loudly condemn everyone who had an opinion without your permission. Again, your argument relies on a good Samaritan on the other team driving by to give you a DoT so you can be immune to CC. What a nice guy. It's too bad he doesn't exist though. Too bad you're basically arguing that you need help from an enemy player to avoid being shut down by a healing mercenary of all classes. You've failed to impress me, sorry. Like I said, the other guy is much better at getting his point across.

 

Yes, I remember your argument that power surge is better used on healing scan than on concussive missile. Apparently healing scan is so good that it makes up for 8 seconds of free healing, or even just leaving? Did they buff healing scan 2.7 without my knowledge?

 

Quote pliz...

 

Lol, I wouldn't need help from an enemy, Concussion Missile doesn't work in large scale fight unless ur target is very far from any potential dmg sources, and as a Marauder I probably wont...Do you see anybody waste Power Surge on Concussion Missile? I don't and I've never seen a merc healer even use it in a WZ, well I guess I should say that I've never actually seen anybody caught in it since it breaks the second its put in well...100% of the cases for me so far. You'd think if it was the greatest cure against Melee fighters everybody would be using it off CD

 

And who said you'd have 8 seconds of free healing, you think I'd be alone focusing you?

 

I'll stick to my point, I've never been kited by a merc healer in a large scale fight, that's it. Maybe most of them didn't have Electro Net off CD, and knowing you, you probably always keep it off CD in case a Carnage Marauder jumps at you, so I guess you're the lone epic specimen able to kite a Mara without failure.

[L-RANDLE]

Change what situation? I never said on the high cliff of Makeb arena? We're talking about basic abilities that all mercenaries have here. Electro dart isn't a special situation ability, friend. If it's not on cooldown, you're going to be stunned (during gore).

 

Yes, smashers have the same issues, except that have obliterate which helps them spite kiters. Not counting the electro net situation, smashers can charge, get thrown back by jet boost and then charge again. If you get thrown after using charge, what now? Hope you have frenzy off cooldown to waste on predation while walking back?

 

I'm not even saying carnage is a bad class. I haven't played carnage since before 2.5, but when I did play it, I had fun with it. It does have kiting problems. I know it does because I don't find it hard to kite people in ataru form. Maybe you and the other guy are the exception and you're the super marauders who are immune to all CCs and slows. Okay, I'm having a little fun at your expense, but I hope you at least try to see what I'm saying here.

 

Deadly Throw works just as well as Obliterate does. It's keep you in melee range, and it last longer. Plus Camo breaks the slow on Electronet, and has 50% damage reduction.

 

Besides all that, Ataru has a built in 15% speed boost. All this means you have WAY more tools to avoid being kited being Carnie than you do as a Smasher.

 

All the subjective "if I do this" stuff don't apply. I'll post it again in case you missed it...

 

Well the banter is grossly entertaining, but the people that understand this class and the difference between these two specs have a good idea what this nerf will do. While Aluvien (and I don't consider a player that out damages most Smashers 2:1 "bad") was somewhat brash about it, he speaks the truth as most "good" smashers were once Carnies and they will move back. For those that don't, I will try to put it simply as I can.

 

With this nerf, Rage damage will now be on par with Carnie damage. Force Scream hits as hard as Smash does on a single target and Carnie Smash will now hit the same as Rage smash on all non-targets, so that is pretty even in my eyes.

 

The consideration you have to go to next is control and escapes. Canie has one more root (Deadly Throw/Rav/Leap vs Leap/Obilterate (9sec vs 4sec)), better escape/less susceptibility to kiting (Camo breaks all movement impairing), and more uptime for Pred/BT/Berserk(Channel Hatred build 30 stacks). Its pretty clear which spec will be more favorable..

[HaoZhao]

You realize most of carnage damage does not come from gore>ravage right? Most carnage players just use it as a root and only gore > ravage if they are whitebarred or if they know the player is either not paying attention or they know they already blew a CD on knockbacks/stuns. Not sure how they are easily kited...30m leap, root on ravage, root on deadly throw, leg slash which is a slow, force choke for a stun, and force camo breaks roots. Carnage has plenty of options to avoid being kited..

 

Yes, dear. That was my point. You ravage for the root. Otherwise you get kited. You're quite correct that carnage typically relies on players not paying attention. Like concealment, it's a fun class to pray on bad players with. We're talking about trying to kill a mercenary. Good luck rooting a root-proof mercenary who has you in electro net, I guess. I agree that you would have to rely on another playing force that merc to blow his CDs. Carnage is a great class as long as you have someone to do the work for you. Okay, I'm being too harsh. Even if carnage gets easily shut down by all mercenaries, it's still good against other classes, right? I can't remember what those classes are, but they're out there!