johnnyreece Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Hey Adrian! This is a good question! My goal would be to not provide new meme ammunition in the answers . However, there are some changes coming to Sorcs/Sages in Game Update 2.7 which we are aiming to post about tomorrow. My hope is that the community feels that they are good changes and feel it addresses the feedback provided! I will have more info tomorrow. -eric PS - Other classes are receiving changes as well, look for that info tomorrow. If you give me a reason to dust off my sorc for PvP again, I wouldn't be angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandLordMenace Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Long as they aren't caving to any qq... and fix the classes that need fixing, I'll be fine with any potential buffs... -cough cough- shadow and vanguard dps, and gunnery commando... Edited February 12, 2014 by GrandLordMenace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnewton Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Hey Adrian! This is a good question! My goal would be to not provide new meme ammunition in the answers . However, there are some changes coming to Sorcs/Sages in Game Update 2.7 which we are aiming to post about tomorrow. My hope is that the community feels that they are good changes and feel it addresses the feedback provided! I will have more info tomorrow. -eric PS - Other classes are receiving changes as well, look for that info tomorrow. *cheers* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterSLC Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Long as they aren't caving to any qq... and fix the classes that need fixing, I'll be fine with any potential buffs... -cough cough- shadow and vanguard dps, and gunnery commando... I understand that shadow and vg dps is bad in pve, but in PvP: vg dps specs are quite balanced. Balance shadow has been the worst spec in the game for a while, while infil is much better, around average overall for a dps spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain_Turinbar Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Long as they aren't caving to any qq... and fix the classes that need fixing, I'll be fine with any potential buffs... -cough cough- shadow and vanguard dps, and gunnery commando... I can't imagine shadows in PvP with damage buffs. 1v1 they are so tough already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DkSharktooth Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Hey Adrian! This is a good question! My goal would be to not provide new meme ammunition in the answers . However, there are some changes coming to Sorcs/Sages in Game Update 2.7 which we are aiming to post about tomorrow. My hope is that the community feels that they are good changes and feel it addresses the feedback provided! I will have more info tomorrow. -eric PS - Other classes are receiving changes as well, look for that info tomorrow. I honestly hope DPS Merc Mando changes are bundled in with it. If they aren't, not sure what to tell you besides the dps specs of this class just don't work for 4v4 at a high level duel to the repeat spam of chained interrupts onto 1 target without any breathing room from all 4 members of the enemy team and kolto overload will barely tick to save your life in a high pressure game. The defensive cooldowns and repeat interrupts do not allow this class to be viable as designed to be the top damage class or big guns or whatever was said in earlier dev posts pre 2.6 about intent of design for this AC. On the bright side, the healer spec is now somewhat intriguing. Edited February 12, 2014 by DkSharktooth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Hey Adrian! This is a good question! My goal would be to not provide new meme ammunition in the answers . However, there are some changes coming to Sorcs/Sages in Game Update 2.7 which we are aiming to post about tomorrow. My hope is that the community feels that they are good changes and feel it addresses the feedback provided! I will have more info tomorrow. -eric PS - Other classes are receiving changes as well, look for that info tomorrow. I'm going to be blunt here. 99% of sages/sorcs are terrible players. The class itself doesn't need any major buffs and top teams have been running them since arenas came out. Its a support class and has pretty much the most utility in the game. The only reason the heal spec never gets taken is not because its weak, its because scoundrel healers are broken and complete easy mode. I don't think sorcs are weak, i think they just have a way higher skill cap than most other classes. Not to say they cant use some QoL, but buffing them is a massive tip toe on a line I don't trust BW to be tip toeing around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoloTweed Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I HATE cliffhangers... Except without that particular cliffhanger, every other class would say "What, no changes for MY class? I'm so sick of this, that's the final straw, unsubbing!" At least that holds off the over-reactors for a day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexhpy Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I honestly hope DPS Merc Mando changes are bundled in with it. If they aren't, not sure what to tell you besides the dps specs of this class just don't work for 4v4 at a high level duel to the repeat spam of chained interrupts onto 1 target without any breathing room from all 4 members of the enemy team and kolto overload will barely tick to save your life in a high pressure game. The defensive cooldowns and repeat interrupts do not allow this class to be viable as designed to be the top damage class or big guns or whatever was said in earlier dev posts pre 2.6 about intent of design for this AC. On the bright side, the healer spec is now somewhat intriguing. If they don`t announce giving Powertechs one viable build(as in one build that does the same damage as a Guardian/Scoundrel etc.) for endgame PvE i`m going to give ESO a shot as i find it strange to keep buffing classes that already do more DPS while ignoring Powertechs... you just can`t have some classes be RANGED, do more damage and then keep on buffing them until they one shot everything just because people can`t handle interrupts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterSLC Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I'm going to be blunt here. 99% of sages/sorcs are terrible players. The class itself doesn't need any major buffs and top teams have been running them since arenas came out. Its a support class and has pretty much the most utility in the game. The only reason the heal spec never gets taken is not because its weak, its because scoundrel healers are broken and complete easy mode. I don't think sorcs are weak, i think they just have a way higher skill cap than most other classes. Not to say they cant use some QoL, but buffing them is a massive tip toe on a line I don't trust BW to be tip toeing around. Madness sorc is good and doesn't need anything besides better energy management, and TK mostly just needs protection vs interrupts. Sorc heals on the other hand, is blatantly underpowered relative to op heals, and quite measurably worse than mando heals (which is still not viable vs op heals). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Madness sorc is good and doesn't need anything besides better energy management, and TK mostly just needs protection vs interrupts. Sorc heals on the other hand, is blatantly underpowered relative to op heals, and quite measurably worse than mando heals (which is still not viable vs op heals). The real issue here is op heals is just ezmode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain_Turinbar Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Madness sorc is good and doesn't need anything besides better energy management, and TK mostly just needs protection vs interrupts. Sorc heals on the other hand, is blatantly underpowered relative to op heals, and quite measurably worse than mando heals (which is still not viable vs op heals). I've never tried healing with Operatives or Commandos. Are their heals channeled or not? It seems that every damn thing a Sage does is channeled so if the other healing classes don't have that problem then I can see what the fuss is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Hey Adrian! This is a good question! My goal would be to not provide new meme ammunition in the answers . However, there are some changes coming to Sorcs/Sages in Game Update 2.7 which we are aiming to post about tomorrow. My hope is that the community feels that they are good changes and feel it addresses the feedback provided! I will have more info tomorrow. -eric PS - Other classes are receiving changes as well, look for that info tomorrow. Tech Override change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EzioMessi Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Roll a shadow and raid some real content then tell me there wasn't an issue... Not my point at all. I know it was an issue in in NiM, but screwing up the unique flavour of the Shadow tanks for 99% of the players, just because the 1% had trouble with it is silly. It's supposed to give us balance, not mess up the game for almost every other player because NiM raiders didn't like the way Shadows played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveEternal Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Can sorcs (lightning) get some sort of ''execute"? Maybe something like... Thundering blasts will have some sort of increased damage when boss is under 30% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianDmitruk Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) I'm going to be blunt here. 99% of sages/sorcs are terrible players. The class itself doesn't need any major buffs and top teams have been running them since arenas came out. Its a support class and has pretty much the most utility in the game. The only reason the heal spec never gets taken is not because its weak, its because scoundrel healers are broken and complete easy mode. I don't think sorcs are weak, i think they just have a way higher skill cap than most other classes. Not to say they cant use some QoL, but buffing them is a massive tip toe on a line I don't trust BW to be tip toeing around. To be fair, my post (to which EricMusco replied) did specifically ask when I'd be able to use the 36-point corruption spec to be able to heal again rather than taking bubblestun for the defense and CC. And I'm talking about healing whatever pops, not just 8v8 where sorcs can draw on 7 teammates for support rather than just 3. I'm fine with sorc healing requiring skill to do well but literally the only two reasons why I still do it are RP attachment (my first healer was a sorc) and for the challenge of thumbing my nose at Heal to Full/Make Them Pay. For a support class the support is lacking; there have been numerous suggestions in the various feedback threads. I'd be fine with sorcs resembling captains from LotRO (the ultimate group support healers/buffers, at least they were when I played), others have mentioned giving them an ability to heal outside LOS like disc priests from WoW (though I never played that game), but truth be told I'd trust Bioware with blanket buffs and even nerfs before I'd trust them to even attempt to balance a class like cappies are balanced in LotRO. Edited February 13, 2014 by AdrianDmitruk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Are there any classes/specs you think need a nerf? If so why? You know, I see many players saying that this game's balance is better than any other MMO that's available yet there's still countless threads being made in periods of time about certain classes/specs. Things like Op healers are bit of a concern, but IMO I think this class/spec was made more of a concern in terms of its OP-ness because of how better it can perform in healing in 4v4s unlike a squishy Sage or a more of a single-target/support Mando healer. What I said about Op heals is just an example. Believe it or not, no. Every class has a counter, some of which require teammates. This is a team based game though, so that should not be a problem. The volume of threads about balance changes is not a valid reason for balance changes to actually take place. Are there some classes that under perform in inhospitable circumstances? Yes, and those classes should have their issues fixed and brought up to a competitive level. But in my opinion no class is in need of any nerfing. Haven't all the former Class Representatives quit the game at this point? /wave Edited February 13, 2014 by cashogy_reborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianDmitruk Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Believe it or not, no. Every class has a counter, some of which require teammates. This is a team based game though, so that should not be a problem. The volume of threads about balance changes is not a valid reason for balance changes to actually take place. Are there some classes that under perform in inhospitable circumstances? Yes, and those classes should have their issues fixed and brought up to a competitive level. But in my opinion no class is in need of any nerfing. /wave You, my friend, are all that is left of the Class Representative religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasen Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I like the back and forth with devs, but not the inflated egos and sense of purpose given to forum members. As seen it created unnecessary drama. Looking forward to seeing what classes get reworked. I like balance patches a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterSLC Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Can sorcs (lightning) get some sort of ''execute"? Maybe something like... Thundering blasts will have some sort of increased damage when boss is under 30% Who cares about pve, give it interrupt protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dermitni Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I'm going to be blunt here. 99% of sages/sorcs are terrible players. The class itself doesn't need any major buffs and top teams have been running them since arenas came out. Its a support class and has pretty much the most utility in the game. The only reason the heal spec never gets taken is not because its weak, its because scoundrel healers are broken and complete easy mode. I don't think sorcs are weak, i think they just have a way higher skill cap than most other classes. Not to say they cant use some QoL, but buffing them is a massive tip toe on a line I don't trust BW to be tip toeing around. There is truth in what you say, friend. Although personally, Sage/Sorcerer is my favourite class-duo and I always take the healer's route, since playing a supporter is my favourite playstyle. But I have seen my share of bad healers as well, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakkology Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Hey Adrian! This is a good question! My goal would be to not provide new meme ammunition in the answers . However, there are some changes coming to Sorcs/Sages in Game Update 2.7 which we are aiming to post about tomorrow. My hope is that the community feels that they are good changes and feel it addresses the feedback provided! I will have more info tomorrow. -eric PS - Other classes are receiving changes as well, look for that info tomorrow. Changes for sorcs/sages ??? Mother mercy ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dermitni Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Changes for sorcs/sages ??? Mother mercy ! Well, it seems only fair. After they transformed "Orbital Strike" into "Orbital Disco Show", they could do the same "balancing" with some of the sorcerer and sage abilities, no? For example a 60% damage reduction from "Force Storm"? Or making the dirt-slinging abilities throw fairy dust instead (with 70% less damage!)... The possibilities for "improvements" are near endless! Without jest though, I have to agree with you; balancing classes seems to not be something Bioware is good at... At least when it comes to taking all the consequences for that class into account. But in the end, we'll have to deal with it, one way or another. On my sniper for example I banned the "Orbital Disco Show" from my quick bar since its near useless now as an AOE; now I have to snipe down each and every mob foe one at a time... *sigh* Oh well, but I'll adapt as well should they have some "glorious" idea about nerfing sages and / or sorcerers: - "That healing ability does way too much healing!" - "You think so? I'm not sure about that..." - "Of course it does! Let's nerf it by doubling its force cost and tell them to not use DPS any more as healers, to save that force power for their healing. I never liked when they did that, so here's the chance to teach them how to play this game the right way!" - "Hmmmm... If you're sure, ok, let's do this. They'll adapt; it's not that there's anything else they can do about it, right?" Edited February 13, 2014 by dermitni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essence_of_Light Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Vote for your class reps here Reported. DON'T click that link, it is a scam and leads to his Refer a Friend page (exploit). Just report him, put him on ignore and move on. If you've already clicked the link though, either call up Customer Support or Email them at Support@swtor.com to get you removed from his Friend Refer list. As long as you stay on his list he gets free CCs and benefits, so make sure to get yourself removed. Edited February 13, 2014 by Essence_of_Light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralTran Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Well, it seems only fair. After they transformed "Orbital Strike" into "Orbital Disco Show", they could do the same "balancing" with some of the sorcerer and sage abilities, no? For example a 60% damage reduction from "Force Storm"? Or making the dirt-slinging abilities throw fairy dust instead (with 70% less damage!)... The possibilities for "improvements" are near endless! Without jest though, I have to agree with you; balancing classes seems to not be something Bioware is good at... At least when it comes to taking all the consequences for that class into account. But in the end, we'll have to deal with it, one way or another. On my sniper for example I banned the "Orbital Disco Show" from my quick bar since its near useless now as an AOE; now I have to snipe down each and every mob foe one at a time... *sigh* Oh well, but I'll adapt as well should they have some "glorious" idea about nerfing sages and / or sorcerers: - "That healing ability does way too much healing!" - "You think so? I'm not sure about that..." - "Of course it does! Let's nerf it by doubling its force cost and tell them to not use DPS any more as healers, to save that force power for their healing. I never liked when they did that, so here's the chance to teach them how to play this game the right way!" - "Hmmmm... If you're sure, ok, let's do this. They'll adapt; it's not that there's anything else they can do about it, right?" ^This.. Belongs here > http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=704058 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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