dermitni Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 ^This.. Belongs here > http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=704058 No, it does not, since I was joking in my posting. Since I play characters from all classes I can say that by my experience no class needs (or needed) a nerf. To bring the balance back to the classes, Bioware now would have to undo the unneccessary nerf of the sniper (and its mirror class). They could of course continue nerfing all the other classes until someday, we'll all do zero damage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_jackhack Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Vote for your class reps here This is a friend referral link do not click it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralTran Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 No, it does not, since I was joking in my posting. Since I play characters from all classes I can say that by my experience no class needs (or needed) a nerf. To bring the balance back to the classes, Bioware now would have to undo the unneccessary nerf of the sniper (and its mirror class). They could of course continue nerfing all the other classes until someday, we'll all do zero damage... No class needs a nerf eh? You're probably right.. Gonna log on my Focus Sentinel and smash everything in pvp for a bit.. Nice chat'n. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essence_of_Light Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 This is a friend referral link do not click it. Not trying to call you out or anything, but can you please edit the quote so the URL doesn't work still, so someone who (may or may not be dumb) won't accidentally click on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexhpy Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Well, if they bring the other classes up to speed on the DPS it would be balanced... Hopefully they won`t make caster classes immune to interrupts and so on or we will all roll Merc. :-) But its enough to make me interested as they show they listen/care... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dermitni Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 No class needs a nerf eh? You're probably right.. Gonna log on my Focus Sentinel and smash everything in pvp for a bit.. Nice chat'n. Frankly, I don't care for PVP, I'm talking from a pure PVE point of view. If Bioware wants to level the playing field in PVP they should restrict their nerfs to PVP and PVP only, for example by adding some penalty debuff to classes deemed too powerful? But why do I as a PVE'er have to suffer because PVP needs balancing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralTran Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Frankly, I don't care for PVP, I'm talking from a pure PVE point of view. If Bioware wants to level the playing field in PVP they should restrict their nerfs to PVP and PVP only, for example by adding some penalty debuff to classes deemed too powerful? But why do I as a PVE'er have to suffer because PVP needs balancing? Not the first time thats been asked, and certainly won't be the last. I don't have a clue why PVE has to suffer from changes to PVP. This may be help our understanding of what's happening in PVP > http://youtu.be/qS7nqwGt4-I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DkSharktooth Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) If they don`t announce giving Powertechs one viable build(as in one build that does the same damage as a Guardian/Scoundrel etc.) for endgame PvE i`m going to give ESO a shot as i find it strange to keep buffing classes that already do more DPS while ignoring Powertechs... you just can`t have some classes be RANGED, do more damage and then keep on buffing them until they one shot everything just because people can`t handle interrupts... You've obviously never pvp'd 4v4 ranked as dps merc if you think that being ranged is their "advantage". You can have the enemy team alternate interrupts on you and you will feel like Hammertech from ironman, a complete dud. Edited February 13, 2014 by DkSharktooth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnewton Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) The only reason the heal spec never gets taken is not because its weak, its because scoundrel healers are broken and complete easy mode. Had this comment been made weeks ago I might have agreed. However, with the significant Mercenary/Commando heals buff, I don't think I can share in your mentality here. In order to decide which spec is unbalanced (not role, but spec) one must consider the others as well. Pre-2.6, Scoundrel/Operative healers were FOTM. However, since the Mercenary/Commando heals buff, both of these specs are fairly decent. Are Sorcerers/Sages as well? Sure, but from what I've seen and what I've read, it seems to me that they're now below both of the other two healing specs. At that point, it's more that Sorc/Sage needs a buff than the other two need a nerf. If the entire role of healing becomes too powerful as a whole (ie: healers being able to heal through ridiculous damage) the numbers can be toned down as needed. However, I still think that Sage/Sorc could use a buff, at least for the time being, as opposed to Scoundrel/Operative heals being nerfed. It does need to be nerfed, but slightly. I think we can all agree that Bioware has an unhealthy habit of taking the best specs and nerfing them to the ground. Sooner or later, I hope they realize that the spec only needs to be brought down to the level of the others, not 'punished' for existing with the current imbalance caused by -- news flash -- Bioware. Edited February 13, 2014 by idnewton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varietasplus Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 This is a good question! My goal would be to not provide new meme ammunition in the answers Don't be sad about the H2F meme, without it that hillarious James Blunt song parody would have never come to live. The real PR issues lie elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexhpy Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 You've obviously never pvp'd 4v4 ranked as dps merc if you think that being ranged is their "advantage". You can have the enemy team alternate interrupts on you and you will feel like Hammertech from ironman, a complete dud. Ranked PvP is 3% of this game... or less. Balancing the entire game specifically for this is not exactly good, as it will ruin other aspects. Both Merc and Sorc are balanced by the fact that they will be interrupted..... if the interrupt is no longer an issue they will rebalance the class lowering your defensive CD`s, self healing and so on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Ranked PvP is 3% of this game... or less. Balancing the entire game specifically for this is not exactly good, as it will ruin other aspects. Both Merc and Sorc are balanced by the fact that they will be interrupted..... if the interrupt is no longer an issue they will rebalance the class lowering your defensive CD`s, self healing and so on.... This is why PvP ruins PvE games. Always causing constant balance issues and wrecking stuff in PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexhpy Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Looking at the leaderboards you see 3 people on rank 20-25 with Commando/Merc and a lot more for Sage/Sorc... it clearly shows the class CAN DO IT. But its harder than with other classes sure, it makes up for the fact that Commando/Merc has it easier in Pug PvP and PvE, so it balances itself out. So what the Devs have said about Learning to Play and all that was not just a funny meme, its actually the truth, but most people would rather go to the forums and scream the class in no good rather than you know... admit they might not be the best. Asking and getting a buff now will result in nerf starting from 2.8 as the class is already good enough as it is, its just damn hard to play and the reason its the first one people jump on in Ranked is because they fear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Funny, to put both quotes close to one another : I'm going to be blunt here. 99% of sages/sorcs are terrible players. The class itself doesn't need any major buffs and top teams have been running them since arenas came out. Not my point at all. I know it was an issue in in NiM, but screwing up the unique flavour of the Shadow tanks for 99% of the players, just because the 1% had trouble with it is silly. In both cases, it's about 1 % of the player base. In the first case, this 1 % believes that Sorcs / Sages [Healers ?] are fine, in the other case, this 1 % believes that Shadows / Assassins [Tanks] are not fine. Lesson learned : If you ask a question, remember who you ask.. Because depending on who you ask, you'll get a different answer, based on the wishes and beliefs of the person you asked. Believe it or not, no. Every class has a counter, some of which require teammates. This is a team based game though, so that should not be a problem. To which class is Sorc / Sage the counter ? There is truth in what you say, friend. Frankly, I don't care for PVP, I'm talking from a pure PVE point of view. You are late at "explaining" that you don't talk PvP at all. But - most of the Sorc / Sage complaints ARE in fact about PvP ! And now you come, say "all classes are balanced" and excluse PvP ? Oh, my. So what the Devs have said about Learning to Play and all that was not just a funny meme, its actually the truth, but most people would rather go to the forums and scream the class in no good rather than you know... admit they might not be the best. Turning this argument around by 180 degrees, it is now obvious why there are so few complaints from Agent classes in the PvP forum ... Because learning to play the Agent class seems to be ssooooo much easier than the Sage class ... Edited February 13, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dermitni Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) You are late at "explaining" that you don't talk PvP at all. But - most of the Sorc / Sage complaints ARE in fact about PvP ! And now you come, say "all classes are balanced" and excluse PvP ? Oh, my. Your point being? Yes, I don't care if a class is deemed unbalanced compared to another class in PVP since I (almost) never PVP. News flash for you: PVP is a minor part of each and every online game (except those built around PVP), so most of us simply don't care for PVP one way or another. So why exactly is it that PVE'ers have to suffer "balancing" actions like the "Orbital Disco Lights" because PVPers have problems with other people's classes being better than theirs? Regarding PVE, no class needed balancing, and nerfing a vital level 49 ability "because they were OP in PVP" is... how to put it nicely?... an irritating move by Bioware for PVEers (the majority of their players!). EDIT: And seeing how they chose to ignore any feedback regarding "Orbital Disco Lights" in the PTS forums, I have a hard time believing class representatives will be listened to any better by Bioware. Edited February 13, 2014 by dermitni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamesux Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Your point being? Yes, I don't care if a class is deemed unbalanced compared to another class in PVP since I (almost) never PVP. News flash for you: PVP is a minor part of each and every online game (except those built around PVP), so most of us simply don't care for PVP one way or another. So why exactly is it that PVE'ers have to suffer "balancing" actions like the "Orbital Disco Lights" because PVPers have problems with other people's classes being better than theirs? Regarding PVE, no class needed balancing, and nerfing a vital level 49 ability "because they were OP in PVP" is... how to put it nicely?... an irritating move by Bioware for PVEers (the majority of their players!). Too bad. This game still has a PvP playerbase albiet dying, it's still there. Just because you don't care doesn't mean you represent the majority. Your logic is flawed. I'm only a pvp'er and I couldn't care less what happened to pve or the pve playerbase bc pve is completely boring. It takes no skill whatsoever and its just fighting the same scripted mobs over again with some mobs being of higher difficulty. That's all. I'm glad that balanced is mostly centered around pvp but that doesn't mean it isn't flawed - bc it is. Plus saying pvp'ers are the minority is nothing but a hunch. Can u provide numbers and statistics? Why does pvp Q pop every few minutes yet Group finder Q can sometimes take hours? Maybe for a tank it can be instant, but sometimes ur missing a healer. So yeah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Too bad. This game still has a PvP playerbase albiet dying, it's still there. Just because you don't care doesn't mean you represent the majority. Your logic is flawed. I'm only a pvp'er and I couldn't care less what happened to pve or the pve playerbase bc pve is completely boring. It takes no skill whatsoever and its just fighting the same scripted mobs over again with some mobs being of higher difficulty. That's all. I'm glad that balanced is mostly centered around pvp but that doesn't mean it isn't flawed - bc it is. Plus saying pvp'ers are the minority is nothing but a hunch. Can u provide numbers and statistics? Why does pvp Q pop every few minutes yet Group finder Q can sometimes take hours? Maybe for a tank it can be instant, but sometimes ur missing a healer. So yeah... I agree to that, even though I'm to 98 % an PvE player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamesux Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) I agree to that, even though I'm to 98 % an PvE player. Thank you Again i will reiterate that doesn't mean pve doesn't have its problems. It still does and there just needs to be a better system where pve and pvp can be balanced without negatively impacting each other all that much. I'm just not sure how and if that could work out. Edited February 13, 2014 by Gamesux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfa Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Except without that particular cliffhanger, every other class would say "What, no changes for MY class? I'm so sick of this, that's the final straw, unsubbing!" At least that holds off the over-reactors for a day Yeah, until the next day when they hear the actual changes and go" Screw this, I actually am unsubbing!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dermitni Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Thank you Again i will reiterate that doesn't mean pve doesn't have its problems. It still does and there just needs to be a better system where pve and pvp can be balanced without negatively impacting each other all that much. I'm just not sure how and if that could work out. How about implementing for example the OS nerf as a "60% damage malus" debuff (like the Rakhghul desease) that gets attached automatically on any Agent / Sniper / Operative that flags himself for PVP? That way PVEers wouldn't be bothered with this and PVPers would get their balancing, no? So why can't they balance PVP by adding a balance buff / debuff to each class and fine-tune that as needed? But of course it's much easier to simply slap that nerf on anyone, no matter if they even PVP or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamesux Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 How about implementing for example the OS nerf as a "60% damage malus" debuff (like the Rakhghul desease) that gets attached automatically on any Agent / Sniper / Operative that flags himself for PVP? That way PVEers wouldn't be bothered with this and PVPers would get their balancing, no? So why can't they balance PVP by adding a balance buff / debuff to each class and fine-tune that as needed? But of course it's much easier to simply slap that nerf on anyone, no matter if they even PVP or not... I can't imagine all of the debuffs that'd appear on my screen from all the nerfs that the "combat" team has done up to this point.... I sure wouldn't like that lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EzioMessi Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Funny, to put both quotes close to one another : In both cases, it's about 1 % of the player base. In the first case, this 1 % believes that Sorcs / Sages [Healers ?] are fine, in the other case, this 1 % believes that Shadows / Assassins [Tanks] are not fine. Lesson learned : If you ask a question, remember who you ask.. QFT To which class is Sorc / Sage the counter ? Balance Sages counter Snipers so perfectly, it's funny to think of how well they do it. Not saying Sages don't need a buff, but yeah. Every class has a place in a warzone group. (Except Balance Shadows. They're just everyone's distant cousin who no one likes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dermitni Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I can't imagine all of the debuffs that'd appear on my screen from all the nerfs that the "combat" team has done up to this point.... I sure wouldn't like that lol I don't mean multiple debuffs (one for each balancing action), but one balance buff / debuff instead where Bioware could finetune each class for PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Is this really turning into a PvP vs PvE thread? I don't think anyone should be throwing out numbers on how much of the population queues up for PvP. I think it's quite higher than people would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamesux Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Is this really turning into a PvP vs PvE thread? I don't think anyone should be throwing out numbers on how much of the population queues up for PvP. I think it's quite higher than people would think. However I think there's a huge diff between those who Q and are PvP'ers from those who just Q and are casuals/PvE'ers and getting their daily done or for the BiS relics. IMO not everyone who Qs for PvP is a PvP'er but hey Q pops fast and if I see someone in worthless PvE gear or with their old PvP gear on I can just leave and wait for another pop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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