KaboomzZz Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) I just answered your question. Through either my own selective vision or editing, I didn't see it before I posted my initial reply. I have likewise added a response. So.. to wrap this all up in a neat tidy package: Some people don't like the change. Some people know this is the nature of MMOs.. changes happen. Some people think it was a crime to change it the way they did and are prosecuting their feelings in the forum here. Some people are insistent and demanding that it be reworked to their personal satisfaction. Some people are going to adjust their play style and move on. Just about everyone embraces one or more of the above in some combination that meets their personal needs. Can we have world peace now? Edited February 5, 2014 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beslley Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Edit: Thank for answering above. I see.. so you feel that by making a big freaking emotion fested deal about it in the forum.. you will get your way and they will change it back, or change it some other way to your personal liking? Really? I won't deny that I am often worked up when I am argumentative. And can you honestly say that the current change, with its complete inability to even fix the problem it was designed to solve, is better than any of the other options? Because I find saying "You just want your way" to be a dishonest look at my position. I pointed out above that a channeled isn't optimal, and I know that many wouldn't like that change either. A longer cast time, or a higher energy cost, would also create ire. But any of those is a better solution than what we have right now. I don't much care which one it is, it just rustles my jimmies that OS got nerfed so hard when it didn't fix the problem. It's like wrapping a kid in bubble wrap to protect him, then he falls down the stairs and hits his head. You may have prevented a scraped knee, but the stated intent wasn't met, and it was done in a ridiculous fashion. To go further, Bioware wrapped a kid up in bubble wrap to protect him from getting hit by a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 300dps is not the end of the world. If your DPS relied upon OS to stay at the top, you were never that good of a Sniper to begin with. because no one ever ran a sniper in anything besides ops...oh wait a second Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthpickles Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 this is why pvp sux if it wasn't for pvp there would never be nerfing of any class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesmindassassin Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 this is why pvp sux if it wasn't for pvp there would never be nerfing of any class Except Orbital Strike wasn't nerfed because of PvP. It was nerfed because they didn't like it being used in the single target rotation. The problem with the nerf of course is that we will still use it in the single target rotation, so all the nerf effectively did was lower our damage across the board. Marksmanship was hurt most by the nerf and wasn't doing insane numbers anyway, so it leaves a very bitter taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 this is why pvp sux if it wasn't for pvp there would never be nerfing of any class I assure you, the BULK of changes made are for PvEers. Balance sucks in PvP and PvPers make noise about it, but the vast majority of changes ever made are for PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I assure you, the BULK of changes made are for PvEers. Balance sucks in PvP and PvPers make noise about it, but the vast majority of changes ever made are for PvE. And thank god for it. Some games actually screw over their PVEers because of mini-game balance. TOR developers are smarter than that, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 And thank god for it. Some games actually screw over their PVEers because of mini-game balance. TOR developers are smarter than that, though. Coming from the guy whose day has been spent arguing with PvEers who are saying their class is ruined due to a change most of them blame on PvP anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Coming from the guy whose day has been spent arguing with PvEers who are saying their class is ruined due to a change most of them blame on PvP anyway. Then most of them would be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinnaman Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 So.. to wrap this all up in a neat tidy package: Some people don't like the change. Some people know this is the nature of MMOs.. changes happen. Some people think it was a crime to change it the way they did and are prosecuting their feelings in the forum here. Some people are insistent and demanding that it be reworked to their personal satisfaction. Some people are going to adjust their play style and move on. Some people like the change and think the devs were correct to implement it Added the line you forgot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyfy Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 It's about time one of you OP classes got hit with a nerf bat, hopefully bioware will keep going that ridiculous smash spec will be next! Apparently you weren't around when both Agents and Smugglers particularly Operatives and Scoundrels getting nerf batted to hell otherwise you would rethink your comment there. They are far from OP and really did not need these two abilities messed with to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipacnaa Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Except Orbital Strike wasn't nerfed because of PvP. It was nerfed because they didn't like it being used in the single target rotation. The problem with the nerf of course is that we will still use it in the single target rotation, so all the nerf effectively did was lower our damage across the board. Marksmanship was hurt most by the nerf and wasn't doing insane numbers anyway, so it leaves a very bitter taste. I can see this being close to the truth. Thing is, I never encountered many that did use this in their standard rotation during OPS. It cost too much energy and had a long activation time. Now the activation time is slightly down but the damage is now so low it ain't good for much than a party trick. Unless of course you got oponents that are glued to the floor. Meh BW, you keep taking the fun out of this game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyktobia Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Pretty much sums it up, it's absolutely zero fun to wait 500 years for my companion to kill stuff while I heal him. At least OS used to speed things up. Sucks to be medicine and wanting to run weeklies solo. Orbital Wet Noodle ftw So true. I ran the dailies in CZ yesterday and OS could not even kill the weak mobs in the pack. I'm seriously rethinking going back to conceal, although my gear is mostly optimized for healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODTONE Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 horrible decision, and that it got implemented like this is pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTCBrad Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Apparently you weren't around when both Agents and Smugglers particularly Operatives and Scoundrels getting nerf batted to hell otherwise you would rethink your comment there. They are far from OP and really did not need these two abilities messed with to be honest. I disagree operative healers need a nerf, a good proper nerf, at the moment they are the only viable pvp healer, everything else hurts the team. That is a serious problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 So true. I ran the dailies in CZ yesterday and OS could not even kill the weak mobs in the pack. I'm seriously rethinking going back to conceal, although my gear is mostly optimized for healing. You can, quite easily, run dailies in your healing gear while in a DPS spec. I ran HM FP's in my healing gear but in a DPS spec and the only thing that wasn't up to par was my Accuracy. Once I started to put together a DPS set, it became easy...especially with my healing toon in my healing gear. I would never run dailies as a Heal spec because the amount of time it takes to complete them is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 LMAO! I am getting a kick out of the extremes. People saying it's OP when it is so easy to avoid get a chuckle out of me. Maybe it was too effective in PvE. People acting like its the end of the world now that its nerfed also gets a chuckle as I didn't need an ability that would obliterate terrible players who would stand in it. Besides that, but the time it would cast, I could have actually hit them with something else they can't move out of the way of. AND, I can still use it to prevent caps and it will cast faster. Obviously, it is a big nerf but it just isn't nearly as big of deal people are making it out to be. I'm just looking forward to them making it more useful in the future like they talked about. Probably for sab/eng builds. Actually, it is a big deal. I just tested it out on Corellia, and at 50, vs 48 trash, it took off 1/4 of their max hp, and left me trying to tank the rest of it down. So unless your WZ is on Hutta or Ord Mantell, you're not going to be very effective at preventing caps. In fact, players attempting the cap are probably going to be more affected by pointing at you and laughing than by the skill. I know I would be. But hey, I guess I was part of the problem? I used it a lot in FPs/OPs and in the field for PvE. I knew it needed to be toned down, but what happened here wasn't toning down, it got hit with the nerf forest. I won't be using it in FPs/OPs now, because I don't want to tank the mobs that it would be controlling/killing. I can do more damage with the grenade skill that agents/smugglers get before they hit lvl 10, and it costs way less energy to use. True story: 1 grenade on my gunslinger today did more damage than the whole of Fly By did. I didn't even crit with the grenade. So yeah, it needed to be toned down, but that's not what it got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I would never run dailies as a Heal spec because the amount of time it takes to complete them is insane. ^^ I applaud the common sense demonstrated here. The "I don't want xyz skill adjusted because it makes it harder for me to do dailies when spec'ed as healer" is complete silly sauce IMO. Especially when it is so easy to respec (not as easy as it should be, but plenty easy enough to do once a day without dramatic meltdown). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 This ain't real life and OS and FFB weren't meant to be in a single target rotation. Balance happens, get over it. You are correct, this isn't real life, and had I known that my grenades did more damage than my ship, I'd have stood on the hull throwing grenades for all the space battles I did. This is, after all, what we wound up with. A skill I get around lvl 4 does more damage than a skill I don't get until 48. This isn't speculation, this is actual playing experience, on both my sniper and my gunslinger since the nerf was done. One Frag grenade out damages Orbital Strike. Not just a tick, it out damages the whole skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 You are correct, this isn't real life, and had I known that my grenades did more damage than my ship, I'd have stood on the hull throwing grenades for all the space battles I did. This is, after all, what we wound up with. A skill I get around lvl 4 does more damage than a skill I don't get until 48. This isn't speculation, this is actual playing experience, on both my sniper and my gunslinger since the nerf was done. One Frag grenade out damages Orbital Strike. Not just a tick, it out damages the whole skill. Then what's the problem? Just use the grenade skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasen Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Apparently you weren't around when both Agents and Smugglers particularly Operatives and Scoundrels getting nerf batted to hell otherwise you would rethink your comment there. They are far from OP and really did not need these two abilities messed with to be honest. I was here when all that went down. In fact my original character was an Operative Concealment spec. I freaking loved it! The insane burst was so satisfying, but obviously overpowered. Bioware rightly nerfed it, but the issue came when they nerfed it further and further. That is what killed concealment back then. The thing is I support this nerf 300 times over. As someone who raids nightly with my guild and in 16 man PUG groups I have seen firsthand the total lack of skill required from the part of gunslingers. When each and every one of them(usually have a minimum of 3 in one of those 16 man pugs) spams flyby and then follows up with garbage rotations and are still able to maintain decent numbers there is something wrong. They are not an AOE class. They're AOE should not be a primary move. Even a Focus spec class requires setup and proper execution to dish out good numbers. Flyby does not require any of the above, but a simple mouse over of where you wish to kill everyone. The good gunslingers I know are hurting because it is a nerf. If Snipe's damage was reduced by 1 they'd be hurting just due to the nature of what nerfs are. But they can still pull out awesome top tier numbers. My Sentinel just got hit with the nerf bat and I have not found a drop in performance at all. All it did was force me to become better by increasing my APM and tightening up my rotations. I don't worry about overnerfs anymore because from my perspective there hasn't been one since the original massacre of concealment. Shadow tanks self heal reduction and Watchman Sentinel's self heal reduction amongst others were to me proper nerfs that simply needed small buffs afterwords. This nerf seems to be fine and they'll probably make adjustments later. At least you won't be waiting two years for a buff like concealment did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Then what's the problem? Just use the grenade skill. Because they want their old OS back. Personally, I think it's silly just going on and on and on about it. OS was super useful and OP, literally a one-shot kill for whole mobs of weak enemies and now it's a standard AOE attack. In short, the players have to actually work a bit harder and that angers them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Because they want their old OS back. Personally, I think it's silly just going on and on and on about it. OS was super useful and OP, literally a one-shot kill for whole mobs of weak enemies and now it's a standard AOE attack. In short, the players have to actually work a bit harder and that angers them. It's all about the easy button. Same thing in bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eartharioch Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) I propose that the abilities be renamed ... XS Freighter Flip-off. That name implies more authority than the ability now has. I think XS Freighter Stink-eye is more appropriate. Edited February 6, 2014 by eartharioch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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