totally, i never had energy problems before, i didn't even use the 50 more energy in the sabotage tree or piece bonuses etc now i run out doing less... it's just a total mess.... now its klunky, not fun and dumbed down big time, its simply ruined, so much i liked from sabotage is just not there anymore. too bad was my first char and now i can throw it in the garbage... i just play my guardian atm at least they didnt mess that up too much, since he didnt have many abilities anyways before..

yeah so much is just wrong with saboteur atm , its not even funny, hardly even playeable. I just wish they would stop muking my class up, and massacre some other build for a change, messing up saboteur is getting old... that person on tc that said yeah its fine, its great, should get fired!

The changes to Sabotage are horrible, very disapointed, but i didn't expect them either to get it done right... been sabo since the start and this is the worst sabotage setup yet, totally dumbed down, a shame.

meh, well then it should be an achievement not an expansion for cred farmers and a grind horror, achievement doesnt mean 50 million, theres 100 others ways they could make it an "achievement" ... just being lazy they drop the 50 mill mark on it so they dont need to program anything more for the "achievement" factor, my opinion about 50 mill being a "guild achievement" : whatever.

I find 50 mill to much, way to much , as if the republic would ask 50 mill to its army per ship rofl, gamer mechanics being very unrealistic again. In the game home is home fine you pay, but the war is your job lol you dont pay for your working equipments at work. I guess the programmers here all bring their own computers from home. Im sure general ackbar had to pay 50 mill to the rebels for his ship to attack the deathstar (its a money trap!) rofl... Its a war out there, well suppose to be... not a fashion show.. if the republic or sith want to win they need to give stuff to their army to win the battle lol, like ships... no pilots buy their own f16 in the army lol... stop making it like a normal mmo wich makes no sense in a star wars universe, and make it like star wars! Example : jedi dont get their lightsabers repaired by some dude, they make their own, take those repairs off the game , its old ideas from other mmos wich dont fit in star wars. There are no saber repair guys in any star wars world... even the old republic... Strongholds is a nice idea but ya the price is just stupid expensive and unjustified for the ships and for room unlocks... Even our guild is middle big and its really hard to get the 50 mill just for a ship... To me its fake game economics with no realism just to have people do dailies, give the darn guilds a free ship and let the guild unlock stuff in it for creds or doing missions or crafting etc , 50 mill for the ship is a typical bioware idea and a lazy move... unimaginative and over priced. the new system is nice but it needs work to be fun, and ya i agree let the darn ship be an expansion or cartel etc... for 5 bux or so... or give it free like i say to any guild without certain upgrades. For small guilds it must be horrible looking at the 50 mill price ! oh well bioware care about their players right lol... bioware should respect the star wars lore and the players pockets more , then it would be more fun to play this game... then playing copies of other mmos with a star wars look. Like certain things they make cartel wich shouldnt and certain wich should they dont, the guild ship is one thing i think should at least be available cartel and keep the stupid 50 mill ingame price for those who dont want to pay cartel, and emotes for example shouldnt be cartel there normal features in games and nothing special, but hey its not my business what do i know... I just play these greedy companies games. Having stuff for overachievers as new content is never fun in an mmo, aside hms and nims. Seems to me 50 million for the ship is the devs trolling players, like we got new content but you cant play it ...

probably whatever the hutts would have me smuggle that pays best

Look what i got... Don't hurt yourself with that!

Ive tried them all and my favorite is Saboteur , but thats me, there all very good when you play them right. It truely is a question of taste , basically comes down to : single target , aoes or dots

thats really cool lol, the world need more women like that lol.

lol i did not reply to the person they did to me, and the way the person talked to me is not very nice as you say, i hadnt even talked to the person. I cant take someone seriously either who says the blaster wip bonus is a pvp bonus lol then just ignore it if you cant read it... and if you read my first reply its not even agressive at all untill the person gets all nasty to me. btw english is my 3rd language , so ya id like to see you talk my 2 main languages for fun lol, at least i try to express myself , no matter how weird it may appear to you. if you really take the time and look youll see i did not insult that person first, but hey bad odt. read it chronologically, my opinion is mine your opinion is yours. and whats funny is that you are basically of the same opinion more or less than me, when im talking about saboteur not getting enaugh attention, i guess my first post was just abit rough, i agree on that, but none the less did not insult the person personally, they insulted me personally first! Sorry i will defend myself, university english or not! this is the internet and a game, get a dictionary if you want 100% correct english. the internet will not adapt to you with perfect english all the time, get used to it, this world is a global community now. sorry not everyone who likes playing games talks 100% perfect english, but hey you dont complain when we send you guys money.

mr pfff well then mind your own business, and dont try lol. I really didnt want you to try anything lol. Its all you dude, so if you cant read it why the hell you wasting your and my time for? so leave it at that and mind your business i wont reply if you dont, there i highlighted your comment happy? and by the way i start with anything planned for saboteur and then say sabo and you cant understand that sabo is the tree not the sabo charge , weird talking to you also dude. Seems like i have to draw you a picture lol. You cant even deal with the word sabo without twitching, are you sheldon, wich is a pretty common term for saboteur! have a good life bye bye go find someone else to argue with please.

sry dude dont feel like talking to ya for futur refrences rofl, i think what i do not happy your problem lol, im not gonna spend my day arguing with someone i dont even know whos just contradicting everything, like in some court of law rofl, get your own ideas, your post looks abit scary like highlighting everything, compulsive behavior maybe lol or law student ? its a whole page long think im gonna read that? All you want is to make yourself look good over my post and me bad , so i dont really care what you think, nothing positive will come out of this discussion. this will be fun: like i said energy isnt a sabos problem yet you persist to tell me i need more energy, so i can use my execute with no loss, i never need more energy and i dont use the piece bonuses, dont you get it, sabo dont have the problems you do with energy , normal that you like it its made for your build not mine, you seem not to be really seeing what i said, play sabo and well talk, i bet you wouldnt even understand the proper rotations for "saboteur", much more complex than sharpshooter. but hey i can save the energy i dont need i guess rofl when my "execute" is firing off i dont need much more power the stuff will die pretty quick from there on. youre the one going btw i hadnt talked to you, so pff here we go back lol you talk to me and then are suprised i reply , what world do you live in, im not your little boy lol? then dont reply wont be any going ... you dont even play my class build, how do you know aside being an expert at contradicting? Its like me as sabo telling you as sharpshooter what you need? and saying that the blaster wip bonus is pvp gear... shows you didnt even check all the smug piece bonus, yet your discussing it? Look at the pve enforcer bonus set then talk, youll be happy the 4 piece is more energy! : http://ootinicast.com/2013/05/pve-pvp-2-piece-4-piece-set-bonuses-classes-2-0/ the 2 piece pve bonus increases 15% crits on it! there end of discussion, its a fact ! there is no blaster wip bonus for pvp! that is a dodge increase get your facts straight! youre just telling me how to talk but have very poor facts! I bet now youll go edit that part since i didnt post like you, to stop the embarrasment. go do your lawyer thing lol. and i know quick draw btw its just funny watching you be all over it lol you said execute not quick draw lol. instead you rather talk to me like some child in school, instead of just saying its the quick draw rofl. Sorry i dont talk with people who talk like that you know lol , you know blaster wip that thing you can use when someones in melee range rofl. and you even admit yourself that the airstrike is a nerf, even in your sharpshooter sticky, it even strarts with that and then you have the nerve to tell me "saboteur" isnt nerfed. make a saboteur sticky id love to see that rofl. Saboteur just sux when you dont know how to use it or are a parser, these changes are making it worst. how is taking down all the adds in one shot so much worst than just attacking 1 thing with big bursts. Its TOTALLY different than the other smuggler trees, thats why i like it ! its much less linear than sharpshooter and not just focused on bursting parses on 1 target. ps: i dont want this here to become swg necesserally but just a simple comparison one more reason why i play sabo: In the case that you played swg, saboteur is pretty much the closest there is here to the swg officer, much more than an swg smug, scoundrel is probably the closest to an swg typical smug. and officer in swg were alot of fun. Aoe heavy builds, the aoes here are soft, in swg an officer could take down a whole team with aoes and we never cried about it we ran out of the aoes when we saw them, like you dropped what you were doing to get out of it , no buts or ifs , its a darn airstrike! But we didnt have all these stuns like here you could actually move most of the time and play your char. And in star wars the story! han solo becomes captain solo, sounds like an officer to me. And if han solo or lando arent the icons for smugs here , then somethings wrong. I mean han shot off the bat when he saw vader he was a harcore dude. No bounty ever managed to catch him without the whole empire up his beep even boba fett. I play sw games not just mmos

lol yes dodge has his effect still but it was suppose to cleanse force stuff also or so have a longer duration , till people complained it was to op ... so it was reverted, and i think also with a shorter cd, wich never happened naturally. airstrike is less, flashbang is less, giving others something and nothing really to slingers mainly sabo, is less, youre telling me that little droid boost is a big up? compared to other stuff they added i dont need xtra power as sabo, never run out of it really, im not a comando lol or a scoundrel heals lol, so great it gives more of what a sabo doesnt need. Sabotage does not have the power problem the other smug trees have, we have a refresh on the cd for cool head, and the other piece ability is useless for sabo. and what ability execute sorry? no execute bonus for sabo i think your thinking like a sharpshooter and applying it to sabo. All the smug nerfs happened to aoe stuff in case you didnt notice that. do you even play sabotage, so tell me what i need as someone who never played the tree lol? The piece bonus is bogus for sabo almost better to use the scoundrel 2 piece and get the xrta run from blaster wip, wich isnt really what a sabo needs either,and the sabo tree wasnt that bad untill all this new messing around, sharpshooter is boring to me, im not a parser so i dont really want to play sharp, dots are even more boring, and because other smug ac who are using flyby as single attack we get it nerfed, doesnt that rather mean improve sharp or single attacks, if they need fly by as single attack? sabo use all their aoes also as single attacks. So nerfing fly by basically nerfed our biggest attack. well get others involved in the smug missions, make them have to catch them or so discover the goods etc... "jabba even i get boarded sometimes" could even combine it with the bounty hunter event. dont see people complaining that its called bounty missions, didnt i just say devs love bounties and sith lol and how does bounty missions relate even as an activity for a light side guardian tank lol. for spies could be smuggling some secret pub data etc.. big problem here people have no imagination...

will there ever be any consideration given to sabotage? no piece bonuses for pve, i mean thats way overdue getting perma nerfed instead of a piece bonus seems very punishing to me? and make the aoes back to what they were for sabos. if you want to keep the fly by nerf give sabo a piece bonus to boost it back up to normal. and those cover roll grenades are crap for pve as a 55 ability for ops, compared to the other classes. Seems like sabo is totally ignored... and wheres that "something" you wanted to give us since you didnt the last patches and nerfed us and undid the dodge, our only hope for cleansing ourselves, with cleanses needed in hm ifnot you die in one shot in ops thats kinda cheap to do that for the pvp whiners and remove it, I know bioware likes killing its players but cmon thats really cheap, couldnt you have added a cleanse then if you didnt boost our dodge! every patch theres some sorc, jugg or marauder crap but never any word about sabotage, i smell an emperor with a conspiricy to nerf sabos by making others stronger and doing nothing about it for them lol. So sick that the devs play so much jedi or should i rather say sith same as swg there all sith freaks the devs or bounty hunter... Seem to forget in this old rep world stuff, without a smug at the end of the movie the jedi would have never gotten the death star down... So the empire should fear smugs rightfully. Stop just focussing on jedi and give me my guns back, jedi dps pvp is a horrible idea anyways. Its becomming like a rave in the 90s full of glowsticks but the freaks are raged murderers instead of loving ravers lol and theres way too much melee in the ops now! they die much more in ops, like 1 or 2 sents is enaugh. Untill something is done about sabotage the rest is all hot air to me and am sick of false hopes. Im not a sith i dont beleive your lies rofl. And last but not least, what about giving us smugs some smuggling missions... im not really smuggling much as a smuggler... feels abit superficial being a smug without the risk of a smuggling mission. "this deal is getting worst all the time!" calls his android to remove the empires weapons

will there ever be any consideration given to sabotage? no piece bonuses for pve? and make the aoes back to what they were for sabos. Seems like sabo is totally ignored edit: oh sry just saw the next post is open now

You can speculate as you like that there will or wont, its all still speculation , but its based on a real article you can find on several fan swtor info pages, woops here it is ! : personally my favorite idea is the new engine lol

well i wouldnt use endurance augs im not saying it doesnt work for others, with the amount of white damage going out atm it cant be bad to mitigate abit i think.

defence , defence and more defence, the def stats are way too low only with gear... the only might item i use on my guardian tank is the pve hilt, i guess you could do that in pvp also with the hilt... That is if you want to tank, if you want to dps, guardian tank is really the wrong tree,might aswell make a vanguard hybrid then? and the defence augs have power also so there you have your xtra dps anyways, the only thing might adds more is the crits and guardian tank crits are horrible anyways with hardly any surge... and the strg stat doesnt effect crits as much as dps classes anyways. just add the crit bonuses to riposte in the tree and the cd shorten, thats about all you really need to think about with critting as a guardian tank, if you want even more dps add the master strike damage bonus, the reflect duratiuon increase is not bad, although you get stuned 99% of the time when your reflect is up in pvp, also for a tick more dps you can get the aoe bonuses, get the 4 piece bonus and guard someone another 5%, honestly really dont need might augs, you can even get the strg if you want in the vigilence tree instead, even as a full tank build you get to it, try to hit another tank wich is getting healed, as a tank, his health will hardly even move... I would probably even aug accuracy before might or end, the guardian tank accuracy is horrible, basically you randomly swing your lightstick lol. Endurance is the worst stat to aug as a tank i find (well fortitude augs or whatever there called) you want Redoubt! Being an endurance sponge is fine when youre getting healed , but the sec youre not getting healed mitigation is way better. example, guarding a node alone and needing to call inc and survive till the back up comes, they will burn threw the xtra health compared to the mitigation. A reason also that i find defences are a tick better now is that people use more white damage since a patch or 2, and white damage is the eayest to mitigate from all types.

it should never have happened in the first place, poor judgenment by the devs again. more waste of sub money for useless programming... Do they have interns doing this stuff? Well wasnt as fast as the dodge smug incorporation removal,slingers still didnt get anything yet... Honestly i prefer them working on the guardian tank stuff, than a healing dps? dps guardians are just ridiculously op atm?!? I think they did that just because the guardian tank isnt what it should be, it just shows that they dont have much of an idea what guardians need. Getting leaped to and losing 3/4 of your health as a tank in full pvp gear is just a bad joke and bad programming. Im still disapointed of guardian tank, defence and shield need to be way more usefull in pvp, and in pve the agro issues with guardians still havent been adressed. The piece pvp bonuses have nothing to do with mitigation for tanks it adds more stun duration and more dps? pretty crappy idea... Probably the worst idea for a tank piece set, if i guard im taking more damage shouldnt i get more mitigation while guarding, who cares about a tanks dps in pvp... seems to me alot of things for the guardian tank are done wrong, starting with not understanding his role as a tank, the way its going the dps guardians will tank in pvp and the tanks will dps rofl. but hey i always said more defences and what do they do for the makeb patch rediculously reduce the defence and add dps and health, not really an upgrade..., at 1k rating im at 20% , before the makeb patch i had 500 rating and 30-35% defences and i even payed for that crap in advance and had to listen to trolls saying it was great what they did to the defence stat, bah whatever... getting tired of paying to be disapointed. The worst is theres still alacrity on 78 tank gear you buy with ultimates (thats probably amazing also to those players) and the pvp gear also have it on the pants or so still, i honestly think they dont really know what there doing with tanks. If tanks wouldnt min max honestly with those settings in that gear , the tanks would really suck. Just because good tanks min max and spend 3 times as many ultimates than others to get the mods they need, do they perform half decently. Tanking has become health sponge style the most boring type of tanking, and alot of the mitigatrion has become crap. And one thing i never understood, how come does a dps guardian or sent get a heal but not the tank?? simply stupid. To me they need to sit down and seriously think of what a tank is before giving guardians only 15% def lol, but i guess they listen to people here who just manipulate things for their own interests and totally mess the game up, while spending my sub money for changes for their own **** and break my classes (mainly guardian tank and sabo slinger, sabo wich never even have gotten anything yet in this game doesnt even have anything in pve set bonuses for them, so if you want a nerfed disapointed player , here i am lol.)..

rofl! someone complaining that you cant kill enuagh during stuns! Is this for real! No wonder pvp is going down the drain... probably the worst complaint ever, i think the contrary while stuned in pvp every palyer SHOULD get at least an 80% damage reduction ! So sick of you guys stuning the whole god darned match making pvp some of the worst in an mmo. And i tank alot in pvp, for your information tanking in pvp sux because its underpowered, probably the most ignored role by devs in this game... mitigation isnt at all where it should be and its getting worst, for your information in this game alot of tanks actually do their best mitigation fighting and buffing the stats up with abilities while fighting so stuns already reduce a tanks mitigation by tons, actually reduces it way too much. And BTW cc isnt the same as stuned, cc is fine it gets broken from combat, stuns you can take damage and still sit there like a vegetable, worst game mechanic for pvp ever! stupid stun lockers

LOL generic ltp 2 year old argument, get it in your head STUNS SUCK, and no cheapo stunbreaker will save your argument lol! almost all pvpers i know who left, left because of that, so all players who left pvp because it sucks needs to ltp lol, it makes people not want to play, dont you get it? there pvping elswhere while you stun lock this game to hell. ltp without your stun rofl or youre so used to it that you need it so bad right. Ask yourself wouldnt pvp be better without that bs? yes by far the only strategy in that is boring the hell out of people, stoping them from actually playing so you can do something and others cant hence crappy pvper needing stuns, and watching your toon do the bacon dance on your screen. The stun madness isnt there for pros... they added more stuns for the casual pvper for your information, so if youre a pro stunner then you must have been one of those players who needed it. maybe if you ltp before the change we wouldnt be in this mess! So stuns is making the game easyer for casual pvpers actually, the issue is that if people like you would ltp there wouldnt be so many stuns and you wouldnt be here saying this. Your argument just doesnt make sense, and its been herd 150 times... why dont you just listen for once and dont repeat the same crap over and over, weve herd that point way too many times and its not valid, as you see people are still talking about it... So less players ingame because of stun locks is healthy then for pvp right? at the end you can play alone like you do with your stuns anyways... tell the world ltp still doesnt make the stunlocks any good for pvp. Get it in your head that they added so many stuns at one point FOR "not good pvpers" , you embarass yourself actually saying ltp and defending stuns rofl. Stuns are a no brainer.

dont worry they will say you dont know how to play, but stun locks do suck for real, let them play for a change no stun locks rofl, and the resolve system is a joke since 2 years, even when you know how it works, its cause for some of the crappiest pvp ive seen. I never want to see a stunlock in pvp in a game ever again after this disaster... Its redundant and boring. I thought gamers had more immagination than a stupid stun lock, i guess not.

Probably the worst community in a game ive ever seen, theres so many aholes its not funny, ive never seen so many in a game, and really wanting and trying so hard to be jerks. In other games ive wanted to meet some of the people and sometimes have, here i honestly dont want to meet many players offline, almost too much already having to deal with them in a game. Ill remember this community as a bunch of raging insulting freaks, who call huttball pvp rofl. The forums are the worst , seems they just hang all day here to pop some smart az comment to make their sorry lives feel better, probably pay a sub just to spam insults in the forums, They will use words like bads, you mad, not very complicated or sophisticated, usually like 3-4 letter words (easy to remember since there not really thinking) etc... like a bunch of zombies trying to chew your brain. And they think there being smart or something but there just lame, generic and have no imagination! Im not talking constuctive critisism here, theres some real jerks who go out of their way to make your gaming experience horrible. They will usually also have weird names with symbols, like è ë or so, so its harder to ignore them. Watch out for that species of gamers, there an experiment gone wrong needing to prove something useless, oh they want to prove you mad true rofl, have nothing better to do then have people waste their time. They forget or probably dont really care that other people pay for the game also. Ive probably lost half my braincells trying to talk to those raging idiots, so i dont anymore, it will always be the same sentences they say anyways like preprogramed generic drones, there just pros of wasting your time, over and over and over, you know they just sit there all day being a pain in the butt, and there always on, seems like they do nothing else... If they have so much free time they should go learn a music instrument or something! Show us your talents aside keyboard smashing and trolling on too much caffeine. Some players had full Brutaliser sets after 2-3 days lol. The kind of community wich makes gaming a waste of time. Only reason i kinda stay is because i raid alot, pvp is crap since 1.3 . thats what i think and i dont care about the insulting rage freaks, ill still think this no matter the 2 cent, crackerjack , bazooka joe insult, ill think this even more if so lol.

Solo ranked pvp is the biggest waste of time, its a total joke! the dps on my teams havent even killed 1 player since season 2 in solo ranked? have been having 100-200k mitigation so im doing my job mitigating, the opposing team have a player in tank stance with 1k mitigation, its all a joke and dps idiot bonanza. not 1 player of the opposing team has been killed by the dps on my team. another fail in swtor pvp, very sketchy stuff. The worst is that this game glorifies stupid crap like that...

I was looking forward to it coming out soon but if it means only half well done and buggy and not interestng, im glad then that there taking the time to work on it to make it worth while. Im all for having player cities, player politics that inflence the game, planetary faction planet points, player organized events, less theme park and more player involvement , all for it.