This game badly needs mods and macros.

[Jxspyder]

I think cars should be banned.

 

Obviously they're an unfair advantage and everybody will have to buy one in order to go to work. Bosses won't hire you if you don't have a car to come to work and have to rely on public transports' schedule. Women also won't date you if you don't have a car to take them places. Remove cars, they make life too easy.

 

 

See what I did there?

 

Yeah, you made a fallacious analogy that doesn't support the point you were trying to make. Good job.

[ShadowDaimao]

What kind of exploits do you honestly think you could do using macros?

 

This. I want macros to free up my action bar space! I'd like jet charge on 1, and grapple on the same key activated by holding alt or shift or something.

 

We get a lot of abilities and getting to set a few of them to the same key wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

[dargor-]

Yeah, you made a fallacious analogy that doesn't support the point you were trying to make. Good job.

 

Or maybe you're just not smart enough to get it. Hurr Durr, evil addons

Edited January 12, 2012 by dargor-

[WelbyWars]

Ok, I will jump in,..

 

over 100 pages,..I wouldn't be surprised if my post is redundant,..

 

 

It is up to the DEVELOPERS to decide if they want Macros/add ons/ dps meters,..

 

IF they Developed the game with these in mind,.I say fine,..that's cool.

 

BUT

 

 

 

what add ons /macros/ dps meters do is skew gameplay in a way the Devs may not have prepared for.

 

 

If I was a DEV and made a game,.and specifically tailored the gameplay around certain metrics,...and then someone says here,..put this in, it allows you to perfectly time this chain skill,...

 

well,...then the gameplay is trivialized or altered in a way not originally intended.

 

 

Maybe they want you to mash 3-4 keys in a row,...or maybe they want you to be mindful of your cooldowns without a huge Add on Meter to remind you.

 

It all depends on how the Devs intended their gameplay to be 'fun' and/or challenging,...if they did at all. If they go an relent and give in without thinking,...well,.now new complaints will surface about how boring the gameplay is( for example),..and nobody will remember why.

[Manchuwook]

Ok, I will jump in,.. <snip>

If I was a DEV and made a game,.and specifically tailored the gameplay around certain metrics,...and then someone says here,..put this in, it allows you to perfectly time this chain skill,...

 

I would argue that by throwing in cooldowns, GCDs, and the fact that there are macro-able keyboards - yes, it was designed for macros. Putting it in the game is a nicety for players who don't have those types of keyboards over those who spent the $100 bucks either getting the keyboards or downloading macro software.

 

AddOns, completely different ballgame, obviously. If they keep an API to the bare minimum and add more later, as opposed to making it wide open and shutting stuff down (like Blizz did), then they won't have a pandora's box issue down the road. If they were able to dev the popular stuff in-house from curse.com, then letting the player's code their own stuff - I'd be tickled pink.

 

For instance, bag sorting/filtering, GTN addons (better search, auto-market pricing), cooldown bars, and grid/cliq, armor database (for viewing armor-sets in game) without having to go to curse.com... that all would be great!

[KittyPrawn]

I really wish people wouldn't use things like Deadly Boss Mods, Recount, and 15 action wonder macros as their meter for judging macros/mods.

 

I don't ask for or utilize any add-on or macro that automates anything for me. I ask for add-ons and macros to alter the UI so that the information I use to make choices on how to play makes more sense. I ask for macros so I can utilize mouse-over targeting, as it is more fluid than clicking for me. It doesn't automate the spell. It doesn't choose my target for me. I have to make the same choice as the click-style healer, I just don't click and I get to have a static target. I ask for macros so that I can free up some quickslot spaces, but not by making a chain of abilities. I want to say that if I press 1, this ability will happen, but if I press alt+1, this other ability will happen - and I would like to do this without using two separate quickslots.

 

I don't ask for add-ons so that the game can tell me exactly what I need to do when. I ask for add-ons so I can move quickslot locations and slim down the whole frame. So I can put the minimap and chat windows in more comfortable locations. So I can swap my frame and my target frame, because that's what makes more sense to me.

 

Also remember this, a developer can allow or prevent specific actions from being utilized in an add-on/macro. The original version of decursive allowed you to write a macro called /decursive. When you hit that macro, it automatically chose a target and cleansed the ability. Blizzard decided it did not like that function of the mod, and they made changes to their side that essentially broke it and any other mod that wanted to work that way.

 

Add-ons and macros aren't for poor players, nor would I say that people that don't utilize them are worse than those that do. Most add-ons exist for visual customization. Most macros exist to create space.

[WelbyWars]

 

For instance, bag sorting/filtering, GTN addons (better search, auto-market pricing), cooldown bars, and grid/cliq, armor database (for viewing armor-sets in game) without having to go to curse.com... that all would be great!

 

Ha,..well I will not argue about add ons for helping out "Bad" design such as filtering inventory and the awful Global Market.

 

That said,..shame on the Devs.

 

 

The Keyboard thing is interesting,...nobody with 'more money' should have an unfair edge.

 

and not everyone is or has the capacity or desire to write their own code for this stuff.

 

I can't think of a way to keep the keyboard stuff out other than 'locking' it down as u mention though. Other than maybe from the get go,..creating their system to not rely on the classic 'clicky' hotbar mechanic,..and more skill based,..but that's a can o worms too in the world of MMOs!

 

/cheers

[Kurnea]

what add ons /macros/ dps meters do is skew gameplay in a way the Devs may not have prepared for.

 

Macros and addons have been considered by devs for quite some time. Interviews have shown that an addon api was something the devs were looking into.

 

Add to that, addons and macros can only do what the api they develop allows.

[dargor-]

Macros and addons have been considered by devs for quite some time. Interviews have shown that an addon api was something the devs were looking into.

 

Add to that, addons and macros can only do what the api they develop allows.

 

Bingo

[WelbyWars]

Macros and addons have been considered by devs for quite some time. Interviews have shown that an addon api was something the devs were looking into.

 

Add to that, addons and macros can only do what the api they develop allows.

 

have you played Lord of the Rings Online?

 

They opened the game up to Lua Scripting and people seemed pretty happy with that.

 

And , as you say,..Turbine, I believe, has done exactly that..where they allow/disallow certain macro permissions.

 

 

would something like that work here?

[BlazingShadow]

mods are used by bads to compensate for lack of skill.

 

I say NUO macros. Manage your quickslots better.

[Manchuwook]

Also remember this, a developer can allow or prevent specific actions from being utilized in an add-on/macro. The original version of decursive allowed you to write a macro called /decursive. When you hit that macro, it automatically chose a target and cleansed the ability. Blizzard decided it did not like that function of the mod, and they made changes to their side that essentially broke it and any other mod that wanted to work that way.

 

Yeah, and healbot used to automatically determine which heal was the best heal and you just left-clicked on it. It doesn't do that now, which puts the decision back on the player. However, it saved me having my healthbars and a set of heals based on clicks (I set left-click for Flash Heal, right-click to Greater Heal, alt-left for Penance, etc.)... but I was actually using all the buttons on my mouse with my actual fingers, and my actual brain deciding which one was better... like do I waste mana on a fast-cast heal, or do I have time for a slower but more healing power?

 

Add-ons and macros aren't for poor players, nor would I say that people that don't utilize them are worse than those that do.

 

Oh no, tons of people are ************ about how they lose their competitive edge when other people can use macros. Like 20 pages of it combined.

 

Ridiculous argument, says I.

 

Most add-ons exist for visual customization. Most macros exist to create space.

 

The most useful ones don't necessarily do, like bagnon and auctioneer.

[Manchuwook]

mods are used by bads to compensate for lack of skill.

 

I say NUO macros. Manage your quickslots better.

 

Noted. I hope to plan my quickslots better...

 

With, uh, macros.

[Hairless]

How much longer does BW want to watch people fight over this?

 

How about just a ****in clear answer as to what is going to happen so people can stop all the speculation and all the bs.

You know, maybe you wouldn't have to close down so many threads and crap if you just communicated some CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK BACK TO THE COMMUNITY.

[Romacular]

I was Mod bonkers in Wow, but i certainly love playing a game that doesn't have some of the more bothersome ones - like gearscore, and one button spamming macros for healers, and chat spamming macros - not to mention automated combat assisting macros

 

that being said, i'd love to be able to control visual ui features especially scaling, and bar customization, I am also beyond frustrated at how much time i have to spend on the GM relisting stuff because there's no click searching items and i'm tired of calculating per unit prices in my head when i list stuff - the only amount i can enter is the total - lemme think for a second....what is 79 times 17? gah

[Manchuwook]

I was Mod bonkers in Wow, but i certainly love playing a game that doesn't have some of the more bothersome ones - like gearscore, and one button spamming macros for healers, and chat spamming macros - not to mention automated combat assisting macros

 

You must not have played the same WoW I did, as a healer, you were terrible if all you were capable of is hitting a button that executed a complex set of macros that "healed" people. The most you would have would be a pre-shield and then a heal. Otherwise, it was a worthless macro because everything is situational.

 

And what automated targeting macro were you using? I had "/tar Mad" or whatever macro, but I still had to hit a button... no program did that for me.

 

Gearscore, yeah, dumb addon that caused alot of pain. Now people have to actually right-click on you, view your gear, and then be elitist snobs - instead of having the number calculated for them and save you the trouble of not wanting to join their little party.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Manchuwook

[Kasperion]

and one button spamming macros for healers

In the posts of the anti-addon/macro people, there is almost always one statement that demonstrates just how little they know about the subject. I quoted one above.

 

Sorry, but healers weren't using the "one button spam". That was DPS, as that type of spam macro is only usable in a use-whatever-is-off-cooldown rotation. Healers can't waste resources on potentially useless heals, and any healer that was using such wouldn't be able to heal their way out of a paper bag.

 

not to mention automated combat assisting macros

Make sure the next time you are in game that you go into your preferences and toggle off the "Target Nearest Enemy" option that Bioware has already provided.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Kasperion

[Manchuwook]

Make sure the next time you are in game that you go into your preferences and toggle off the "Target Nearest Enemy" option that Bioware has already provided.

 

Actually, I think I understand what they are saying:

 

/cast [@focustarget] Brain Blaster

 

Would allow someone to have the Tank focused, but cast Brain Blaster at whoever the Tank had targeted, usually the boss. Or @focustargettarget would be cast on the healer if the healer has yanked aggro away from the tank, without needing to change targets, just hitting a different button. Or holding down alt. Still hard to argue against because it is still situation-specific, but now I gotta hit ctrl+tab until I have the healer targeted, or F3 if I know if it was party member 3 that got attacked - and then heal.

 

Or - you know - program my $150 keyboard to hit F3, wait a second, then hit 1 whenever I press macro key 12. Herp durp.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Manchuwook

[zefamin]

Big NO to add-ons. Hit your buttons when u want that ability, thats what makes it you playing. Definately NO dps meters. Some of you players are too boxed in to get along with anyway without someone explaining how they would trade certain dps for utility or what their reasoning is for the build they selected because they thought sacrifices were worth the cost.

 

EDIT: UI customization I support fully

Edited January 12, 2012 by zefamin

[Jofai]

** Caveat: I have not followed this entire thread **

 

A way of judging at least personal proficiency in combat is necessary. I don't think anyone with a real understanding of how endgame in MMORPGs works will debate this, and BioWare has stated they're going to address this issue. That takes care of my concern about "damage meters"... However after playing for the past month, I've come to realize that the current UI makes certain roles in this game completely un-fun. The worst right now, is tanking. The UI falls into the category of "meh, ok" for me as DPS, and "mediocre" as a healer.

 

The default UI is ok... it's better than both WoW & WAR's UI were on release (though not better than WoW's current default), so my first impression was positive. After actually using it, I've found my opinion heavily revised: it would be ok if there were the ability to mod it. As far as I've seen, BioWare has stated that it will be customizable, but that may or may not mean a modding API. If no modding API is added, then some serious, serious work needs to be done to make the UI fully functional; it lacks some very fundamental things right now, like Target of Target, or Focus Target.

 

Though people may not consider it a classic UI element, the nameplates in game are also quite terrible... Just adding the ability to select by clicking on a nameplate would greatly enhance their functionality, though if there is no modding API, they should also add some indicators to nameplates like "in combat with" or "attacking you" indicators.

 

Combine these current deficiencies with the design choice of fighting larger numbers of smaller mobs than other MMORPGs, and tanking becomes very un-fun. I want to make sure I'm clear here: it's still perfectly possible to perform quite well as a tank, and to hold a group together... but it's much more annoying than it needs to be, just because it's so much more difficult to select the target I know I want to select.

 

I think in a month or two, when (hopefully) endgame really gets going, these factors are going to be crucial to TOR's longevity. Because of this, I would think the easiest route to go would be to create a modding API. With that, the community can create the various flavors of UI as they see fit. If no modding API is put in place, then BioWare will have to come up with a UI that suits everyone's needs... Though the implementation changes required for a complete overhaul of the UI are probably technologically easier than adding in an API, getting the design down such that they'll be able to provide an interface that's generally liked by everyone, in every role, will be a much harder task than biting the bullet now and letting the community help.

[lilfeet]

Mods and Addons don't have to include the ability to hit one button to do many things. All I want is a Heads Up Display (HUD). Fighter pilots have them, so they can keep their eyes on the action.

 

Sure, I can do without....but then why??? It is simply a quality of life difference.

 

Please allow UI customization, and allow at least a HUD mod of some sort.

[Khardoss]

Sadly, I just want to combine Force Push with /yell "Fus ro dah!"

[Gavinhawk]

I don't understand the addon hate. If you don't like them don't use them, If a guild requires them its obviously not the guild for you anyway. The interface needs to either be changeable or moddable.

 

I run a smaller guild of people who started playing together in EQ1 and some of those people aren't exactly quick on the draw anymore for one reason or the other. Being stuck with a UI they can't use well or no macro's to make things a little smoother will force them to cancel and that makes me sad.

 

I am fine with the ui myself but that does not mean I can't see where it needs to be improved nor do I wish to hold others back from getting their full enjoyment out of the game.

 

I do understand the frustration with things like Recount. A few of us are very competitive and there was a lot of pressure to always be on the top, sometimes to the detriment of good playing. That comes with the territory and you can always try and avoid people like that.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Gavinhawk

[whitexxsaber]

/signed =macros needed badly.

[Kasperion]

Big NO to add-ons. Hit your buttons when u want that ability, thats what makes it you playing.

In the posts of the anti-addon/macro people, there is almost always one statement that demonstrates just how little they know about the subject.

Addons do not hit buttons for you.

 

Seriously, people, if you're going to argue against something, at least know what it does.