More tanks are required.

[PlayLoud]

I just realized that by not suggestion how to make things better my last post wasn't constructive at all. The reason why I don't tank is because my quick bar only has 24 slots which sounds generous but when you add in relics, adrenals, med pack and regular abilities I just don't have enough button for the extra tank abilities. I know there is an extended tab on the quick bar but it blocks my view. I would pay cartel coins if I can get an extra row of buttons on my quick bar go from 24 to 36. As it stands now, dps only.

As you are posting on this forum, that means you are a subscriber, right? You should have 6 quickbars. This gives you 72 slots. Youou can shape them and size them in different ways to your liking.

[LordArtemis]

 

You want to play a tank in this game and play it well?

 

1. Level to 55 in tank spec, in tank gear.

 

Couldn't be more wrong IMO. Leveling to 55 in tank gear has NO EFFECT on how good of a tank you will be when you start running end game FPs. None. Zero. Leveling does NOT teach you how to play a tank. Running Flashpoints does, mainly end game flashpoints. Same with healing.

 

You learn by running end game FPs and Ops. Therefore, spec swap would make no difference...at level 55 you are just as green as a tank as someone that is level 10 and a tank.

Edited November 14, 2013 by LordArtemis

[MillionsKNives]

You know you can buy more quickbar slots right? You can have up to at least 6 bars.

 

They are available off of the CM and the GTN, though prices lately on the GTN are stupid. F2P individuals are capped at 200k, not 250k like some individuals are trying to sell them more. Yes, you can get 50k from escrow with CC, but I would rather spend $5 on CC and get 2 extra slots, 4 extra characters, a 350k credit cap, additional races (?), and possibly cargo hold access. And if that $5 is spent on a security key, I get 100CC a month.

 

He's not F2P.

 

As you are posting on this forum, that means you are a subscriber, right? You should have 6 quickbars. This gives you 72 slots. Youou can shape them and size them in different ways to your liking.

 

Adding to that you can choose how many show up on each bar. I have one bar that only shows 6 slots.

 

Couldn't be more wrong IMO. Leveling to 55 in tank gear has NO EFFECT on how good of a tank you will be when you start running end game FPs. None. Zero. Leveling does NOT teach you how to play a tank. Running Flashpoints does, mainly end game flashpoints. Same with healing.

 

You learn by running end game FPs and Ops. Therefore, spec swap would make no difference...at level 55 you are just as green as a tank as someone that is level 10 and a tank.

 

Agreed. My Assassin was just about 50 when I switched her to tank, and jumping right into FPs and Ops I was doing better than the other tanks in my guild. Either you understand and learn the mechanics or you don't. Leveling in one spec or another won't teach you it all on its own, it's up to the player to learn. Also, most specs' rotations change over the coarse of leveling, so you're going to have to adapt once finishing your tree anyway.

 

That said, I don't think it's a bad idea to level as the spec you intend to play. But to say that you can't play it well if you don't level with it is incorrect.

Edited November 14, 2013 by MillionsKNives

[Mallorik]

Ive played a tank since beta and ive leveled to 55 as a tank several times, and I don't think just "Leveling as a tank" teaches you anything useful. Running fps as a tank does, if youre a fresh tank my best advice would be to do fps as a tank as often as possible, if youre 55 do level 50 fps till youre comfortable, then 50 hm, then move to the 55's.

 

As for the que problems, yes they are bad and they need to be fixed, im not too sure about offering tanks and or heals incentives is the way to go though. I think that would just bring in more people who should not be tanking or healing.

 

Theres 2 ideas I can think of that would work.

 

#1 is to figure out some way to make fps more attractive period, for example on my guardian I have 0 reason to run fps, I don't need 78 gear from coms even for my dps set. As an example, make bonus bosses drop event items, like bounty contract stuff, or rep items. I enjoy Fps but when I get nothing from them I lose interest in doing more than I have to, give me a reason to run fps and I will keep doing it over and over.

 

#2 If you are going to give incentives for tanks and heals, make them incentives that only tanks or heals would want. That way you have dedicated tanks and heals quing more instead of dps who should not be tanking or healing swapping roles to get a bonus. I don't really know what would be a good incentive here maybe someone else could think of something.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Mallorik

[TorvinAugeri]

Couldn't be more wrong IMO. Leveling to 55 in tank gear has NO EFFECT on how good of a tank you will be when you start running end game FPs. None. Zero. Leveling does NOT teach you how to play a tank. Running Flashpoints does, mainly end game flashpoints. Same with healing.

 

You learn by running end game FPs and Ops. Therefore, spec swap would make no difference...at level 55 you are just as green as a tank as someone that is level 10 and a tank.

 

Did you read the rest of my post, or stop as soon as you saw "level to 55 in tank gear"?

 

3. Running each of these low level flashpoints repeatedly will also teach you how to maintain threat/aggro without a taunt, how to best interrupt or else avoid casts and channels, how to make the best use of your class' skill set to protect your DDs and healers, etc. Leveling solo to level cap as DPS and then swapping to tank teaches you nothing about managing a group of potential incompetents.

 

Flashpoints, operations, low level and endgame; these are the environments in which to learn how to tank.

 

The reason I suggest leveling as tank is for getting a feel on your limitations as a tank: you deal very little damage, you're reliant on others (pets, allies, etc.) for damage and healing, your TTK is high but that means jack squat if you don't interrupt and pop DCDs at the right times, etc.

 

I popped 50 on my Medicine operative after reaching then-current content with my Immortal jugg and decided to immediately jump into a HM50. Ended up running Foundry with a freshly-50 Immortal jugg who understood neither Guard nor taunt threat generation. Rarely, if ever, Smashed for the accuracy debuff. Didn't ever proc Revenge. Never saw him utilize Blade Turning. Also stood in HK-47's instakill AoE like a total derp. We wiped twice. When I approached him after the second wipe re: his tanking, he told me that he'd leveled his jugg to 50 as Vigilance and was "trying out Immortal" and that he'd tanked quite a bit on his assassin... which he hadn't level capped and left somewhere in the mid-30s.

 

These people exist. They don't know their class, let alone their spec, because they power level and are otherwise carried through group activities on the backs of their friends/guildies. All it would take is to spend some time, sit down, read up on their abilities, and play the class in tank spec for a while and they'd perform fine. And you know what? For those who are new to the scene, there's no better way, imo, than to level as tank and participate in FPs and ops as tank.

 

All of which was in my post.

 

That said, I don't think it's a bad idea to level as the spec you intend to play. But to say that you can't play it well if you don't level with it is incorrect.

I didn't say you couldn't play it well if you didn't level with it. What I should have said / how I should have phrased it was, "if you want to play tank well, doing this will help".

 

Leveling to 55 as DPS teaches you nothing about tanking. One can either start learning once you hit endgame (how is this a good idea?) or one can start learning early.

 

Granted, if you've run endgame content as DPS/healer already, know the mechanics, and have prior tanking experience from _____, then by all means. But that's not the demographic I'm speaking to. I'm speaking to people reading this thread and people in-game who don't have that.

Edited November 14, 2013 by TorvinAugeri

[SpeckV]

Get more Tanks by normalizing damage and letting abilities define role. I think WoW did something like that to help with tanking problems.

[Brat-a-tat-]

I have main tanked in this game since about 3 months after launch. (I always level dps first in a new game) I stopped queing for fp regularly after they took the KUS/LI weekly out. My reasons are similar to the ones already posted. People don't play well with others and usually the tank is blamed for it.

 

Here are a few examples from the last couple of months:

On my fully optimized sin tank. (full 72/78 w/ set bonus). I que for hm fp, Insta pop. Get in a group with some people. Most of the people that I have run fp with in and out of que want to get it done as fast as possible. So if everyone is full health, I will run through as fast as I can. We wipe cause a dps pulls an extra group. I say hey please don't do that again. Him and his guildy (the other dps) VTK me from the fp. The reason they stated was " doesn't know how to tank, won't wait so we can farm resources." If they had said, "Hey slow down we want to farm mats," I would have slowed down. I was blamed for the wipe and kicked without finishing the fp.

 

Qued for HM Czerka on my Jugg (full 72's with set bonus). Get into a group with a under geared healer. We are fighting the Enhanced Dune claw. The boss was at the generator when he ravaged, but the healer couldn't keep up with the damage. We try 3 times. I say listen guys lets give it one more go, but if it doesn't work i'm out. I think 4 pulls on one boss in a fp is more than enough. The healer starts yelling at me telling me I am not using my Predation speed boost. Its my fault we are wiping. I inform him that I am not a marauder and have no speed boost. (Regardless the boss was destroying the generators with every ravage.) I ready check, we pull the boss, and guess what happens. The healer drops group, says tank sucks, and leaves us to die after we agro.

 

If you had to deal with this **** close to every time you que, i bet you would stop queing too. I am currently successfully tanking hm DF and DP. I think I know what I am doing when it comes to a fp. I am sick of dps and healers not paying attention or not being geared, pointing the finger at the tank and then screwing the team up.

 

As of right now the only time I que is when a full group of guildies needs a tank, or someone OFFERS to pay me 100k to run them through. I have never asked for payment, but I won't turn it down. lmao.

 

I think the biggest issue for tanks and healers are that DPS are so overzealous when they finally get into an instance. I don't know how many marauders/sentinels I've run with that just go full retard with pulls. They leap ahead of the tank, they saber throw CC'd mobs, then they ***** in /group when they die. Snipers are constantly pulling ahead of the tank so as not to lose their free Snipe. Being a tank in a PuG in this game is exhausting. They should be dispensing Xanax to you people. I think that's the biggest reason you don't see more tanks in GF. Too many of you DPS are just retarded. It's easier to just pull together a group of trusted people and run it that way, than have to slip a disk trying to carry a bunch of pent up bads.

/agree, but you should add a line about under geared healers always blaming the tank for their derp.

[Kingsbount]

Still, i think the MAIN problem that people doesn't want to run tanks, is gearing.

[Brat-a-tat-]

As a side note they will probably not increase the damage tanks are doing in the near future. They have been trying to balance pvp since launch. Having someone with the survivability of a tank and the damage of a dps in a warzone would not be beneficial. Especially with the fact that they are trying to revive pvp atm.

[loudent]

As a side note they will probably not increase the damage tanks are doing in the near future. They have been trying to balance pvp since launch. Having someone with the survivability of a tank and the damage of a dps in a warzone would not be beneficial. Especially with the fact that they are trying to revive pvp atm.

 

I guess the question is whether or not PvP alone can support the game. I've seen many a game die because they prioritized class balance in PvP and left PvE to rot.

[Brat-a-tat-]

I guess the question is whether or not PvP alone can support the game. I've seen many a game die because they prioritized class balance in PvP and left PvE to rot.

 

This is true, but as of right now there is no problem with tank dps and threat in pve.

 

Why change something that will have no effect on pve, and will drastically change pvp.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Brat-a-tat-

[Mallorik]

Still, i think the MAIN problem that people doesn't want to run tanks, is gearing.

 

What about gearing? they don't have the gear or they don't need the gear they get from fps?

[Mallorik]

I fail to see how upping the damage of tanks would get many more people play tanks. If that's why you play I would not want you tanking for me.

[Jeweledleah]

What about gearing? they don't have the gear or they don't need the gear they get from fps?

 

check out vendors and the sort of tanking gear they offer.

 

and then cry a little at the accuracy and alacrity and dps armorings (although those are not nearly as bad as accuracy and alacrity)

 

you have to mix and match you have to grind far more and the best part is - flashpoints also drop black market gear - the same crap gear that vendors sell. you have to either buy super expensive crafted stuff, buy too many multiples of gear, just to get a few decent pieces out of it, or tank with horrible itemization and see your health plummet becasue your mitigation is low. and its not until you start possibly getting token pieces (and even then), that you see things that are less ******.

 

recently, I decided that I really needed to upgrade my vanguard's implants. she was running around with blue crafted ones for too long. I looked at vendors. I looked on GTN (veracity is.. too pricey for an alt). I looked at schematics i could potentially buy on my biochem, to craft. they are all terrible, with exception of token pieces. its just... ugg.

 

still, i don't think gear is main issue, its an issue, but its at least equal to groups being frustrating.

 

part of the reason why I don't tank at 55 is because I DO actually level in tank spec on characters I plan tanking with (and often, characters that I don't plan tanking with - simply becasue I like survivability and find leveling as a tank with healing companion to be far smoother than dps) byt the time I pugged my way to 50, all it takes is couple of frustrating lvl 50 hardmodes and I give up. on strangers in groupfinder that is.

I'm pretty sure I'm not a unique special snowflake with this sort of experiences and their outcome.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[Damask_Rose]

The role of tanking is not why there's a shortage, it's the community. Tanks are out there, but most won't run a PuG.

 

When DPS stop thinking that they bear no responsibility for their own aggro, when players let the TANK lead the group and pull, and when people start treating each other like human beings instead of personal slaves then you may see more tanks willing to run a PuG. People have stopped treating MMOs like games and now treat them like jobs... dungeons are now a 'quick and dirty' thing instead of a 'let's go have fun' thing.

 

I even saw (and replied to) a thread where someone was complaining that a FP took 20 minutes to clear. Whether they were trolling or not, I don't know, but the truth is some think that IS a long time. I don't really expect role-less FPs to do much better either because it'll end up amounting to letting 4 kids on sugar highs loose in a toy store. Eventually someone is going to get hurt.

 

This is exactly it for me. I love playing a tank and a healer, but I've come across so many jerks in FPs that I quit doing them. Since people are so unpleasant in smooth SM runs, I won't touch a HM with a 10 foot pole. I'd be up for guild runs if my guild weren't dead

[Mallorik]

check out vendors and the sort of tanking gear they offer.

 

and then cry a little at the accuracy and alacrity and dps armorings (although those are not nearly as bad as accuracy and alacrity)

 

you have to mix and match you have to grind far more and the best part is - flashpoints also drop black market gear - the same crap gear that vendors sell. you have to either buy super expensive crafted stuff, buy too many multiples of gear, just to get a few decent pieces out of it, or tank with horrible itemization and see your health plummet becasue your mitigation is low. and its not until you start possibly getting token pieces (and even then), that you see things that are less ******.

 

recently, I decided that I really needed to upgrade my vanguard's implants. she was running around with blue crafted ones for too long. I looked at vendors. I looked on GTN (veracity is.. too pricey for an alt). I looked at schematics i could potentially buy on my biochem, to craft. they are all terrible, with exception of token pieces. its just... ugg.

 

still, i don't think gear is main issue, its an issue, but its at least equal to groups being frustrating.

 

part of the reason why I don't tank at 55 is because I DO actually level in tank spec on characters I plan tanking with (and often, characters that I don't plan tanking with - simply becasue I like survivability and find leveling as a tank with healing companion to be far smoother than dps) byt the time I pugged my way to 50, all it takes is couple of frustrating lvl 50 hardmodes and I give up. on strangers in groupfinder that is.

I'm pretty sure I'm not a unique special snowflake with this sort of experiences and their outcome.

 

Im in 78's and not 78 com gear. Making it so you dont even need to grind to get bis gear with coms would have the exact opposite effect on the amount of tanks in the fp que than what you want. I don't do fps because I have nothing to gain. Not because I have to buy extra gear, if I needed more coms to buy more gear I would be running fp's.

[Lumpyone]

Never much cared for playing tanks in most MMOs, but after I had leveled my healers and dps toons to 55, geared them through OPs, I wanted a change. With so few tanks I thought this would be good to check out.

 

I actually found leveling the tank as easy as my DPS, and easier than my healers. I've heard it from a Vanguard tank in my guild, and see the same comments echoed here, that the tanks just take longer to level and longer to kill mobs or complete quests. I'd disagree and never found it hard or longer to do the same fights on my Vanguard. I leveled my Vanguard as Shield Tech from level 10 and with a properly geared healing or dps companion I find its often easier than with my Commando. In fact, I finished my class story several levels ahead of my Commando (Commando at 50, Vanguard at 46)

 

Done a little in the way of OPs and HM FPs, and can say I definitely want to PUG those as little as possible as a tank. I'll stick with guild only groups if I can as a tank for the same reason many have stated here about DPS just being a little crazy. While leveling I love doing FPs, about 50% of the time I'd get a group with at least 1 person who had no clue or didn't want to listen., but I put up with it because of the insta-queues up to about 38-40. Once I got to 40-54, I would often queue for as long as my DPS toons do now for 55 HM FPs - about 1 hour. At 55, if I have to PUG a FP (which isn't often with guildies needing the weekly), queue times are back to nearly instant although I have had a few times I've waited 30-45 mins for a group.

[Nempo]

The role of tanking is not why there's a shortage, it's the community. Tanks are out there, but most won't run a PuG.

 

When DPS stop thinking that they bear no responsibility for their own aggro, when players let the TANK lead the group and pull, and when people start treating each other like human beings instead of personal slaves then you may see more tanks willing to run a PuG. People have stopped treating MMOs like games and now treat them like jobs... dungeons are now a 'quick and dirty' thing instead of a 'let's go have fun' thing.

 

I even saw (and replied to) a thread where someone was complaining that a FP took 20 minutes to clear. Whether they were trolling or not, I don't know, but the truth is some think that IS a long time. I don't really expect role-less FPs to do much better either because it'll end up amounting to letting 4 kids on sugar highs loose in a toy store. Eventually someone is going to get hurt.

 

This...so much this.

I have a Shadow, a Vanguard, a Powertech, and a Juggernaut all geared and set up as tanks...I PuG with none of them. Why should I subject myself to idiot DPS that honestly believe their only job is to deal out as much damage as possible? Hint:it isn't. Agro management is the job of the DPS with the tank assisting in that. A GOOD DPS can sustain consistent DPS based on the level of threat the tank has built up and can feel out that threat level moment to moment, it isn't that hard and you don't need a program to do it for you...simply pay attention to the tank's skill usage.

 

What? Too much trouble for the peon DPS mind? Then go back to WoW where a tank can taunt then gog et coffee and come back 20 min later to hit taunt again. People have become complacent in the recent generation of MMOs. Anyone remember DAoC where a DPS had to actually work? CC mattered and DPS shares the job with tanks in controlling agro? How about UO where DPS had to constantly jockey around and pull mobs back to the tank?

 

I play with a group now that played those games, I never have to worry. I hold agro on the most dangerous mob(s) and they pick up the extras and drag them back to me before our healer ever gets touched. This is how DPS are supposed to play, watch their agro and be sweepers for the tank and healer. DPS should never get lazy or complacent and expect other people to pick up their slack.

[HoloTweed]

It really does depend on the server. I've waited along time as DPS on my server of Begeren Colony. Its one of the reason why I tend to go to AC that have dual roles as a tank or healer.

 

Solo DPS on Pot5 I usually wait 30 - 60 minutes or more UNLESS I include story mode Czerka.

 

Healer is about 5 - 45 minutes, but again, those are averages. Sometimes it won't pop for hours so I do other things

[Jeweledleah]

Im in 78's and not 78 com gear. Making it so you dont even need to grind to get bis gear with coms would have the exact opposite effect on the amount of tanks in the fp que than what you want. I don't do fps because I have nothing to gain. Not because I have to buy extra gear, if I needed more coms to buy more gear I would be running fp's.

 

I'm not talking about best in slot gear. I'm talking about STARTER gear, the kind you are supposed to be buying with basic coms, to start running flashpoints etc. not that verpine (elite com) gear is any better.

 

nearly nothing that drops in flashpoints is any good. things that coms buy you are almost universally crappy. how is that supposed to encourage tanks to queue exactly? the only way to get decent gear is either spend a lot of credits or have a raiding main/alt that can mail some of the better ops gear to you.

 

my tanks for the longest time (as in, while I was still gearing my main and primary alt) sat in their 66 crafted gear. which is supposed to be enough to run flashpoints right? but isn't. why isn't it? becasue you have to compensate for other people. you have to compensate for dps who refuses to wait for you to get even one hit in, for cc, doesn't want to lift a finger to control their threat, *****es about your low level gear, etc etc etc. you sometimes have to compensate for undergeared and/or underskilled healers. and all of that? for the privilege of getting crap gear that doesn't improve your character at all.

I'm not saying that gear should be given out. but I'm saying that making it harder than it should be to get ANY decent gear. forget BIS. just... decent. is counterproductive. why. why would tanks go through all this headache?

[TorvinAugeri]

why would tanks go through all this headache?

Same reason we tank for derp DPS.

 

Because we're masochistic bastards.

[Lecaja]

you could resize them and rearrange them so that they don't take up as much space. I use 5 quick bars out of available 6 and they all fit neatly on the bottom of my screen, along with operations frames and minimap, leaving the rest of the screen - open and very visible.

 

I use three of the six, the problem is that you can't swap out the top half of the bar as whatever you have their sticks to all six retro quick bars. If I could switch out the top and bottom half of the quick bars on the fly then I could tank. I would have to have two sets of gear but credits are no longer a problem because I put my toons to work while I play.

[Jeweledleah]

I use three of the six, the problem is that you can't swap out the top half of the bar as whatever you have their sticks to all six retro quick bars. If I could switch out the top and bottom half of the quick bars on the fly then I could tank. I would have to have two sets of gear but credits are no longer a problem because I put my toons to work while I play.

 

I'm very confused as to what you mean...

 

becasue while I use a completely customized UI, I did load up retro preset just to see what you mean, and nothing sticks to anything, you can resize, rearrange, move, etc, all 6 bars to your heart's content. are you using interface editor? clicking on each bar and editing its configuration individually?

[Lecaja]

I'm very confused as to what you mean...

 

becasue while I use a completely customized UI, I did load up retro preset just to see what you mean, and nothing sticks to anything, you can resize, rearrange, move, etc, all 6 bars to your heart's content. are you using interface editor? clicking on each bar and editing its configuration individually?

 

I edit individually. I tried clicking on the interface button and thought I broke the game the first time I did it.

[Knockerz]

It's simple. I don't mind playing a tank, but acquiring tank gear is another matter. If I queue for a dungeon I should be allowed to roll for tank gear exclusively. Likewise, I should also be allowed to roll for dps gear. I'm the one doing the tanking and if some class capable of tanking is dpsing and whines he will get a swift vote kick or removable from the group. DPS that can tank, but don't have no rights and should learn their place for not manning or womming up and tanking the instance. Edited November 15, 2013 by Knockerz