Same reason we tank for derp DPS. Because we're masochistic bastards.

Star Citizen is still in development and doesn't even have a set release date yet, just an estimate. Don't count your chickens before they hatch, and all that jazz. I want me my Star Citizen.

Arcade games (as in cabinets) have sticks because sticks were the most intuitive control input device as far as positioning is concerned. Trackballs were too finicky to outlast sticks and no one was mass-producing mice prior to 1984 for anything other than specific computer models. Cabinets and the game design philosophy behind them are now so entrenched in that tradition that there's really no point in switching to anything else. Games like Asteroids, Raiden, etc. translate very easily to keyboard and mouse, there's just no point in switching over for most cabinet makers. Console developers don't switch over because a pad with sticks is easier and more intuitive for the average customer than mouse and keyboard; they also get more money out of you via controller accessories by sticking with pads. The large majority of flight sim video games (an entirely different creature from actual flight sims a la RealFlight, etc.) developed and published after '84 have supported both K+M and sticks/pads. Elite, Wing Commander, Aces of the Pacific, Descent, Magic Carpet, etc. etc. etc. Can you name me some of these flight sim and arcade games that have bombed by supporting only keyboard-and-mouse? I'm willing to bet that the ones you're thinking of that crashed and burned for that reason are actual flight simulators intended for pilots and RC model fliers, in which case K+M only IS unacceptable.

There are not enough expletives in the English language with which to adequately express my disappointment. Everything else sounds spiffy. Wasn't expecting joystick to be an option to begin with (fellow sim and space sim lovers: we are an extremely niche market these days as far as video games are concerned). Expanding on the PvE space game's recharge abilities for lasers/shields/etc. is actually a neat idea that ought to come across as a more casual-friendly version of X-Wing / TIE Fighter's resource management. That is, if I'm reading this right.

...and I think you've seriously misconstrued my post. My point was that "twitch shooters" is a rather vague discriminator that'll mean different things to different people, hence why I asked for clarification, because "keyboard and mouse only twitch shooters have bombed" doesn't really jive with what I know of and experienced with early 3D shooters. :\ I think it's fair to say that when people say "on-rails space" they think "Star Fox" and when they say "off the rails space" they think Wing Commander / TIE Fighter / Rogue Squadron / FreeSpace / insert-your-nostalgic-game-of-choice-here.

Mind my asking how you personally define "3d twitch shooters"? Because given a broad enough scope, you end up with games like: Doom Quake Quake III Unreal Unreal Tournament ('99, '00, 2k4) I would hardly say any of these "bombed". Granted, these are nowadays considered arena shooters, and by "3D" you likely mean space and/or 6DoF, but still. If I can turn on a dime and obliterate someone with a precise railgun shot, to my mind it's a twitch shooter.

Did you read the rest of my post, or stop as soon as you saw "level to 55 in tank gear"? Flashpoints, operations, low level and endgame; these are the environments in which to learn how to tank. The reason I suggest leveling as tank is for getting a feel on your limitations as a tank: you deal very little damage, you're reliant on others (pets, allies, etc.) for damage and healing, your TTK is high but that means jack squat if you don't interrupt and pop DCDs at the right times, etc. I popped 50 on my Medicine operative after reaching then-current content with my Immortal jugg and decided to immediately jump into a HM50. Ended up running Foundry with a freshly-50 Immortal jugg who understood neither Guard nor taunt threat generation. Rarely, if ever, Smashed for the accuracy debuff. Didn't ever proc Revenge. Never saw him utilize Blade Turning. Also stood in HK-47's instakill AoE like a total derp. We wiped twice. When I approached him after the second wipe re: his tanking, he told me that he'd leveled his jugg to 50 as Vigilance and was "trying out Immortal" and that he'd tanked quite a bit on his assassin... which he hadn't level capped and left somewhere in the mid-30s. These people exist. They don't know their class, let alone their spec, because they power level and are otherwise carried through group activities on the backs of their friends/guildies. All it would take is to spend some time, sit down, read up on their abilities, and play the class in tank spec for a while and they'd perform fine. And you know what? For those who are new to the scene, there's no better way, imo, than to level as tank and participate in FPs and ops as tank. All of which was in my post. I didn't say you couldn't play it well if you didn't level with it. What I should have said / how I should have phrased it was, "if you want to play tank well, doing this will help". Leveling to 55 as DPS teaches you nothing about tanking. One can either start learning once you hit endgame (how is this a good idea?) or one can start learning early. Granted, if you've run endgame content as DPS/healer already, know the mechanics, and have prior tanking experience from _____, then by all means. But that's not the demographic I'm speaking to. I'm speaking to people reading this thread and people in-game who don't have that.

There's a terrible trend present throughout this thread, and I'm here to call you all out on it. "Oh, I'm just going to level as DPS and then swap over to tank spec and tank gear for endgame content and I'll be fine." WRONNNGG! What you don't learn from just leveling as a DPS spec and then switching over: tank spec knowledge, flashpoint knowledge, how to effectively protect three other people with minds of their own, how to deal with their occasional incompetency, how to lead a group, how to plan each encounter, etc. etc. etc. You want to play a tank in this game and play it well? 1. Level to 55 in tank spec, in tank gear. This will familiarize you with your class' tank spec, its abilities, how to gear, how to deal with protracted engagements, etc. 2. Run flashpoints daily via Group Finder as you are leveling. Many of the HM 50 / HM 55 flashpoints are repeats of low level flashpoints with extra mechanics, so by running these you are not only getting custom comm gear appropriate for your level that offer better stats than those p.o.s. greens, you're also learning the more basic aspects of endgame content long before you get there. Case in point, you'll have a much easier time dealing with General Ortol's shackles on HM Cademimu if you're already acclimated to moving about to dodge his rockets. 3. Running each of these low level flashpoints repeatedly will also teach you how to maintain threat/aggro without a taunt, how to best interrupt or else avoid casts and channels, how to make the best use of your class' skill set to protect your DDs and healers, etc. Leveling solo to level cap as DPS and then swapping to tank teaches you nothing about managing a group of potential incompetents. 4. Disabuse yourself of the following notion: "oh, I've tanked in other games, I don't need to L2P". Total bull. Despite the trinity system, despite all of the similarities to EQ and WoW, etc., there are enough subtle differences that'd you'd best put it some effort into figuring those nuances out. Are you familiar with the threat generation aspect that isn't listed on taunt tooltips? Did you know that Saber Reflect generates AoE threat before you even reflect anything? How about the fact that Duneclaw will leap to you and immediately Rampage if you Intercede to an ally? I would think all of these things to be obvious to anyone who wants to tank for a group, especially for MMO vets... but apparently leaping straight into endgame operations and HM FPs as a DPS-turned-tank without any prior SWTOR tanking experience is sufficient. Lack of tanks summed up in a nutshell: A. Not enough people are of the mindset, have the personality, or are willing to dedicate the time and effort it takes to tank. We are outnumbered by people who, by their own admission, find tanking to be too much work and stress and would rather sit back and relax. B. Tanks have a harder time gearing up. Tank drops are rarer than DPS/Healer drops, and because mitigation stats do nothing for DPS specs, we need a second set of gear for DPS if we even want to think about swapping specs. This isn't even getting into the horrid comm mods and enhs. C. People are power leveling as DPS and then swapping to tank specs. Therefore lack of PuG tanks while leveling. D. After a certain point - varies for flashpoints versus operations - the rewards for endgame content are simply not worth PuGing for. Therefore lack of PuG tanks at endgame. E. DDs and healers take it badly when a tank doesn't perform to standard. This scares many a prospective tank away, when a more patient and guiding approach may have brought them along and helped them improve. tl;dr: community community community. You ever want to know why a particular role is relatively unpopulated, start by taking a good, hard, long look at the community involved. P.S. If you've already derped, leveled to 50 as DPS, and find yourself wanting to tank but lack the gear for it, go run dailies for credits. Use those credits to buy Prototype (blue) 66 gear off the GTN on Fleet. Said gear usually goes for around 10k a pop. Alternatively, use your classic comms to get yourself into 61s, then jump into Oricon story quests to hop straight into artifact 66s.

We do get the particle effect. We should not be getting the shield itself. The number of times I've popped Threatening Scream on accident while in chat on Fleet...

Surge Rating has diminishing returns past a certain point. I don't remember the exact number right now (the Crit Multiplier should be around 70% or so when taking only gear into account) but you'll definitely be hitting said diminishing returns by the time you reach 91.59% Crit Multiplier. I'm not familiar with Marauders, though, they might be an exception to the usual rule. As others have stated, you should be fine gear- and stat-wise for SM operations once you address your horrid Accuracy stat. That said, the gentleman above me is absolutely correct: two quickbars' worth of keybinds are not enough to get by in an operations setting. Ideally, you should have enough quickbars and keybinds to account for each and every in-combat ability you have. Tabbing between two quickbars for your main bar can be enough to get by in a flashpoint, but your raid group will need every drop of damage they can squeeze from you, and they'll need it on-demand. Those precious instants lost in the transition from one bar to the other will result in downtime. On both my jugg and my op, for example, i have two quickbars dedicated entirely to in-combat abilities and another three for clickables and any additional keybinds that I couldn't fit into the first two (medpacks, stims, adrenals, DCDs, CC breaker, threat dump, buff, etc) The final quickbar I toggle to on my main bar for such things as mounts, Rocket Boost, Quick Traveling, Repair Droid, etc.

Loved it. Every bit of it. Well-translated. Speaking as a Persian, there's something in our Middle-Eastern blood that screams "must play tank". Probably something to the effect of "if somebody's going to be responsible for our mutual success or failure, it will be me, because I don't trust anyone else to be responsible."

Explosive Content is the Lost Island of operations, for many of the same reasons, especially when it comes to those who are new to HM/NiM EC. There's only so many wipes due to mechanics that people can take.

Why would anyone bring a Madness sin when they can bring a Madness sorc instead? ...no wait, don't answer that question, I know the answer: because they're Kaos_Kid.

An endeavor worth supporting. ...that said, the entire channel probably hates my guts by now.

...there's still a Scoundrel in full Obroan in Targeted Misfire? I don't notice anymore, run through there regularly on my jugg in 72s with some guildies. Straight out told a pair of 'em the other night to just ignore the Twilek.

I found your discrepancy.

So it begins, the great homogenization of our time.

You either take the situation as a one-on-one vacuum or you take it such that both sides have teammates. If you're in a position to be further locked down and "focus fired", then by God you're in a position for your team to CC the Veng Jugg and get him off you. Of course, this is assuming that the new root breaks upon the channel being interrupted... which it should. Bear in mind, I in no way agree with adding a root to Ravage. I'm of the sentiment that there's already too many CC abilities in this game.

Only after Charging, and only for four seconds. The addition of a built-in root to Ravage does not suddenly mean that we are also immune to CC without using Force Charge. Since a large number of people on this forum don't seem to understand or have even read up on how Unstoppable works, here it is: Veng Juggs still need to Charge to receive that immunity, and if they Charge, you're rooted for up to a talented three seconds ANYWAY. If some eager Veng Jugg decides to just walk up to you and channel Ravage, they won't have immunity against anything. That won't be changing. All that's changing is that you'll see an extended root time from the Charge -> Unstoppable -> Ravage combination. So dear sorcs, that post-2.5 Vengeance Juggernaut that didn't leap to you and yet still cast Ravage, thereby rooting you? Go ahead and interrupt his channel. I'm not normally one to defend warrior classes. They're strong, likely unfairly so. That doesn't mean it's alright to spread misinformation.

Feel free to keep waiting.

Vigilance/Vengeance Guardians/Juggernauts are getting buffed? Scrapper/Concealment Scoundrels/Operatives are getting buffed? Commandos/Mercenaries are getting buffed? Excuse me? P.S. You are getting "buffed", it's called Quick Shot/Overload Shot. Enjoy.

Shoutout to Zap-Zap for heading that wpvp raid on Oricon a few weeks back. God, that was fun. It's hilarious having Dom ignored only to still feel his presence through Thor discussion.

The healer dealing damage is actually acceptable under the right circumstances, especially given a large level and/or gear discrepancy. I ran a level 50 flashpoint on my level 54 operative the other night by accident. Not HM50, just SM50. Ran into plenty of occasions where I was sitting there twiddling my thumbs, because I had everyone at full health with two probes on each person and plenty of time to spend a GCD or two (or more!) on abilities other than heals. When I'm critting for enough damage on an elite mob that its health drops to half, and I have plenty of time to do this in because I'm rolling in TA procs and ready to heal everyone back to full in seconds flat, you're gosh darned right I'm going to backstab to deal damage.

It's a root, not a stun. If they haven't Leaped/Charged at you, then Unremitting/Unstoppable isn't up, so go ahead and interrupt/stun/mezz/knockback the bastard before proceeding to laugh in his face. If they have Leaped/Charged at you and Unremitting/Unstoppable is up, there's a small window of opportunity in which you can interrupt/stun/mezz/knockback the bastard before proceeding to laugh in his face. People ate the first two ticks of Ravage before. They will continue to eat the first two ticks of Ravage after. Only difference I'm seeing is that they'll have to pop something to not eat the third tick instead of just walking out.

Disclaimer: I have no notable/significant degree of PvP experience as of yet. I've limited myself to endgame PvE activities and the occasional unrated warzone thus far. Also I'm clearly biased, see sig. I'd like to point to DotA's adage about overpowered heroes and note that Infiltration/Deception buffs shouldn't be as important an issue as an entire spec, e.g. Scrapper/Concealment, having no place in endgame content, be it PvE or PvP. Why bring a Scrapper/Concealment toon when you can bring a Infiltration/Deception one (or DF/Lethality for PvE) and perform better with the latter? Slice Droid isn't a sufficient reason.