Mad_yojik Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) IMO the first problem being a tank char at lvl55 - is that the as a tank - soloing, heroics and PvPing in PUGs are absolutely not enjoyable. Even more - the gearing up at that point brings any difference only for HMFPs. The DPS get a visible increace in their "e-peen" damage per shot with every gear upgrade, while tank gear adds a little endurance, which does not matter at all in solo, daylies and heroics. You already can tank 'em all with lvl 55 starter gear. You dont kill them any faster, you even dont visibly see that you become visibly "tougher", like healers do (by seeing the numerical increace in the healing done). Even in HMFPs with equal gear you really need a tank at the 2 or 3 bosses, the other mobs you just as good as any marauder or sniper around here. I have a lvl55 powertech tank (with elite com gear), and i dont queue really often (in fact I even log him in mainly when I need little creds for a healer I'm leveling). Why? Simple - no point doing HMFPs when you got elite gear. Ops queue gets ages to gather a group (at least at The Progenitor), and with no ops experience people tend to yell at "new" tanks a whole lot more then on new DPSs or healers. I really enjoyed playing HMFPS, where people are way friendlier to a tank doing FP for the first time. And (at least on that server) - guild system is dead. The only ones recruiting is either "be-always-online-we-are-hardcore" (and I dont want a "second job"), and "we-are-heavy-rp-guild-call-me-Master-and-shut-up" guilds. No middle ground, really. Edited November 21, 2013 by Mad_yojik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slafko Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) I've never used gear as the reasoning to use LOS on the pull for that fight. It's more about getting the four bosses in one pile so they're easier to control. The fact of the mater is, you can only effectively tank three of them and use taunts to get the sentinel / mara's attention before he uses force push and switches targets. They spawn within 10 meters of each other already. There's no need for further LOS pulling and wasting time. Edited November 21, 2013 by slafko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morfius Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 No. Just... no. I'm tired of the pansy parenting of kids and the light-handedness in the US these days. No more 'rewards' for behaving properly. Parents need to leave the possibility of slapping their child senseless on the table if other options don't work. It's the same thing in a MMO. If people act like tools we need, as a community, to blacklist them and either make groups so scarce for them that they leave the server/reroll or are forced into guilds made of other tools. Yes, I will say it again, Everquest did this spectacularly. Enough examples exist that i don't need to detail them here. What changed? WoW changed. With the massive influx of millions of MMO players it went from a semi-elite group of gamers to everyone, their friend and their kid brother. It was like trying to be a responsible parent in a city controlled by 12 year olds. Now if you try to actually create some kind of discipline you get railed at by so many of the same tools you have issues with that YOU get run out. Bioware has NO responsibility to make tanking batter or to make tanks more available. This is a purely social issue and until players are willing to accept certain social standards it will continue. The same issues are present IRL. Kids arguing with their parents and acting like they know it all, acting like they DESERVE jobs and a decent place to live, DESERVE an education and don't have to work or follow any rules. The more of these immature jerks that rise to any position of power, the more acceptable this behavior is. Face facts: the tank problem is a social problem allowed by players. Suck it up, Buttercup, because over the past decade most of you have chosen to allow this to happen by defending these immature tools. Exactly, but this is not RL, this is a game for fun... and again it is not a community education center. So why I need to care for same jerk twice ... if let say 100 lines of code and 2 more fields in 2 DB tables can remove this issue for me? Game come with a tools but they are not polished enough, we have 2 option - not use them (GF included) and have such treads or polish them and lower the issues for correct players (that are still not living in game so cannot rely on hardcore guilds or are not good at friendship with pixels). Correct and social are different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndasKastor Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Frankly I have one of each type of tank and I never queue for PUGs. I was trained in other games that if you don't want to sprint through the content (FP or whatever) then it isn't worth it. It isn't worth it to me or to my group as I never spacebar and I don't do research on the web until I have failed a dozen or so times without progress. I figure that I am saving everyone a lot of frustration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorei Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 They spawn within 10 meters of each other already. There's no need for further LOS pulling and wasting time. They are more comfortable to tank by luring them into the corner, because you won't get knocked back so badly and it doesn't waste much time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slafko Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 You get knocked back badly only if you do not position yourself properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPryde Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 If more tanks are required, then roll a tank maybe? A year ago, I had 3 healers and our guild still had problems to get the raid full... we often had to "import" a PUG-tank... and you do not want to have a totally stranger as your tank. So I rolled a tank and I never have the problem of not finding a tank anymore. I am currently in the process of leveling a second tank so that I can do more OPs still. I however hardly ever do GF-FPs as a tank, cause I simply lack the time to do so. Every evening, I am doing a raid... which leaves no more time for FPs. And if I find the time for FPs, I do them with a group of my guild. So again... if you see a lack of tanks... go be one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorei Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 You get knocked back badly only if you do not position yourself properly. Luring them into the corner grants an excellent position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainot-keel Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 They spawn within 10 meters of each other already. There's no need for further LOS pulling and wasting time. What waste of time ? 5 more seconds until bosses get to that corner ? Sounds like a worthy goal, yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad_yojik Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Frankly I have one of each type of tank and I never queue for PUGs. I was trained in other games that if you don't want to sprint through the content (FP or whatever) then it isn't worth it. It isn't worth it to me or to my group as I never spacebar and I don't do research on the web until I have failed a dozen or so times without progress. I figure that I am saving everyone a lot of frustration That depends on the group you fall into, while I was gearing my tank I stumbled on more then one group member willing to show the basics of that particular FP to the new players, tank or not. So its not THAT bleak. Also I guess "bad" tank is way better then no tank at all (at least for FPs), so go queue up . Edited November 21, 2013 by Mad_yojik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slafko Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Luring them into the corner grants an excellent position. Why do it since there is no need for it? There's enough places to position yourself properly even without the LOS lure. I know it's a brainless, dumb strategy some bad tank invented but do we, as a community, really need to enable such brainfarts to endure? I think not. What waste of time ? 5 more seconds until bosses get to that corner ? Sounds like a worthy goal, yup I've never seen it done in 5 seconds. Something goes wrong on every pull. The tank will get thrown back, the healer will start running around, the sentinel will be on one of the ranged and the slinger will be hiding in the corner like a coward he is. It's a lot easier if everyone just balls up on their spawn point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorei Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Why do it since there is no need for it? There's enough places to position yourself properly even without the LOS lure. I know it's a brainless, dumb strategy some bad tank invented but do we, as a community, really need to enable such brainfarts to endure? I think not. I've never seen it done in 5 seconds. Something goes wrong on every pull. The tank will get thrown back, the healer will start running around, the sentinel will be on one of the ranged and the slinger will be hiding in the corner like a coward he is. It's a lot easier if everyone just balls up on their spawn point. Feel free to do it when you are the tank, I will tank the way I feel most comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morfius Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 They are more comfortable to tank by luring them into the corner, because you won't get knocked back so badly and it doesn't waste much time. Only reason for LOS here ... to reduce another annoying pinball mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slafko Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Feel free to do it when you are the tank, I will tank the way I feel most comfortable. My whole world changed now that I have your permission. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestXv Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 What I really hate is a lot of the time when I'm doing the czerka hm fp with the vigilant is that the healer and dps seem to like getting hit by his aoe even though they can clearly see me running from it and then they blame me for a wipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 They spawn within 10 meters of each other already. There's no need for further LOS pulling and wasting time. The Marauder/Sent does a knockback. It's far easier to do that fight in a corner. When you're in a PUG with a questionably-skilled DPS and possibly healer, believe me, easy is exactly what you want. "Stand in this corner, never move out of it, and kill Fire, then Target, then Star". Plus if you have any DPS capable of AOE, the corner is the best/only shot at getting all of them in the AOE consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slafko Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I give up. Frenchway it all you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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