Galactic Starfighter....suggestions to give it wider appeal, short and long term

[Royox]

Having compelling AI in a 270/360deg room is a mammoth undertaking, and if they are working on it, I wouldn't expect to see it anytime soon.

 

I played Xwing vs Tie Fighter online in the 1990's. The game even had cooperative missions....where's the problem?

 

 

And not too far....we had Rogue Squadron 1,2 and 3. Battlefront 1 and 2....don't understand that "AI problem".

[LordGarmaZabi]

I played Xwing vs Tie Fighter online in the 1990's. The game even had cooperative missions....where's the problem?

 

 

And not too far....we had Rogue Squadron 1,2 and 3. Battlefront 1 and 2....don't understand that "AI problem".

 

Are you seriously bringing up battlefront as an example of compelling AI ?

[LordArtemis]

Are you seriously bringing up battlefront as an example of compelling AI ?

 

Perhaps the point is that it is a simple AI but at least it has one.

[Mallorik]

My main concern about starfighter is joysticks, cockpit view would be cool but a free flight space game that only allows a mouse is an abomination.

[Stncold]

As somebody who would use a joystick if I could and has spent way too much time in WW2 flight sims and flying in Battlefields/both Planetsides/Battlefront, I vote no way to them.

 

Mouse v joystick all skill equal, the joystick will win 80% of the time. People will joysticks would dominate and it would only lead to a lot of crying about them and less people doing space pvp because by far the majority of people will not be using joysticks.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Stncold

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

Perhaps the point is that it is a simple AI but at least it has one.

 

*some* NPC AI is still better than *no AI.. at all*

[Oneirophrenia]

Mouse v joystick all skill equal, the joystick will win 80% of the time. People will joysticks would dominate and it would only lead to a lot of crying about them and less people doing space pvp because by far the majority of people will not be using joysticks.

 

Have and have not's will always exist. The potential for some players to encounter an in-game disadvantage is not a valid stand alone argument to oppose the implementation of a feature. Heck, the entire F2P system is based on gaining an in-game advantage by subscribing. For a one time cost of 20-25 bucks, someone who feels that mouse is inadequate can go buy a cheap but still decent joystick. That's not much of a economic obstacle in my opinion.

 

Simply look to the console gaming platforms for a more clear cut example of why the inclusion of more input devices is a good thing. Xbox 360 or PS3 users can buy additional mouse/keyboard devices to gain an advantage over their controller wielding opponents for games like Battlefield or CoD yet I don't see those games losing their appeal to the masses. More popular than ever in actuality.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Oneirophrenia

[Chaffery]

Riiiight, yet another Freelancer clone. No thanks, not interested.

If seriously, after MMO's stormed on games market, many devs even don't know, how make joystick/gamepad working with game. Yet another easy/lazy way do things, fly buy mouse.

And consoles have gamepads only for one reason, consoles don't have mouse in standard package.

[gorstram]

But PvE players already have their own space game, they don't need to corrupt our PvP space game!

 

They should just copy the game Freelancer. I don't think it would be that hard to do. I mean from the looks of it, it's just Freelancer PvP. But the high poly version of Starfox we have now is an abomination and it needs to go sooner rather than later.

[gorstram]

Riiiight, yet another Freelancer clone. No thanks, not interested.

If seriously, after MMO's stormed on games market, many devs even don't know, how make joystick/gamepad working with game. Yet another easy/lazy way do things, fly buy mouse.

And consoles have gamepads only for one reason, consoles don't have mouse in standard package.

 

It's either that or Descent Freespace. I'd prefer Freespace myself since it was a simple space sim that was the best ever made, and it was so dirt easy to make missions for it using the FRED program.

[DarthSabreth]

space pvp was one of the features that I really wanted at release, to be honest if it isn't on the rails I will be spending most of my time in there.

 

1. I would love to see a pro tie fighter / xwing fighter sim put into the xpack, meaning having a joystick and cockpit view. I would infact love it so much I would sub just for this feature alone.

 

2. the capital ship vrs fighter scenario this would be awesome, one side attempts to destroy the ship on a timer, then switch. I would go bonkers to have this in game.

 

3. guild vrs guild capital ship fights with the option of either maning a turret or fighter. this would be one of the most dynamic events in the games history.

Edited November 6, 2013 by DarthSabreth

[LordArtemis]

Some interesting responses. Please keep them coming.

[MasterPromithes]

But PvE players already have their own space game, they don't need to corrupt our PvP space game!

 

Da***? you're kidding me right? Space Combat is a joke. The missions were easy, they do not reward very well and there is no free flowing movement. Its a tracked route and the only thing you do is dodge and shoot. Space Combat needs a complete overhaul and if they are making a new space pvp system then when not implement that system elsewhere for PvE players like myself who have been waiting over a year for decent space combat.

[aeterno]

Is that an opinion or did you see some kind of statement to this?

 

It's an opinion based on the fact space sim genre is flat-lining. Do you have anything other than 1 kickstarter to point at to show the contrary? No. Glory days of the 90s are long gone, proper flight simulators are as niche as you can get. It's been varying degrees of arcade ever since. Does TOR strike you as the type of game that would go for a niche thing at this stage? It's about as low common denominator as you can get. It's mecca for casuals ergo why the space flight mini game is gonna make star conflict look complex. It's the only sensible choice.

Edited November 6, 2013 by aeterno

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

Da***? you're kidding me right? Space Combat is a joke. The missions were easy, they do not reward very well and there is no free flowing movement. Its a tracked route and the only thing you do is dodge and shoot. Space Combat needs a complete overhaul and if they are making a new space pvp system then when not implement that system elsewhere for PvE players like myself who have been waiting over a year for decent space combat.

 

it all makes sense now. This game has no good AI for NPCs.

All NPC can do is move along predefined paths, even the ground mobs, same for space missions.

This is why they only can do PvP for GS, because PvP does not need AI programming.

3D (6-axis) AI is non existant -- evidence: look at birds in this game. Throw one down the platforms on Makeb and watch it slide back along a ground mob path, birds are using stairs instead of flying straight up.

 

Also explains why e.g. there is no Huttball against NPCs

NPCs simply have no artificial brain at all.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Lord_Ravenhurst

[Chaffery]

It's either that or Descent Freespace. I'd prefer Freespace myself since it was a simple space sim that was the best ever made, and it was so dirt easy to make missions for it using the FRED program.

I remember playing Descent Freespace with joystick, that time I had CH's Mach 2 or 3. And that time all simulation type games supported joysticks. Was it something 1993 or 1994? I remember Win 95 wasn't out yet, when I was playing it.

 

But Freelancer was first massively played simulation with fly buy mouse only. And despite peoples begged Microsoft implement joyistick support in to game, it never happen. Digital Anvil was founded buy Chris Roberts and he sold company to Microsoft.

 

Thank god he is back and Star Citizen taking shape, game will be released at 2015. And game has full joystick/gamepad support. Crowd funding reaching yet another goal, 27 million dollars. This is Insane, this is how bad peoples want proper space sim.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Chaffery

[Etheric]

As somebody who would use a joystick if I could and has spent way too much time in WW2 flight sims and flying in Battlefields/both Planetsides/Battlefront, I vote no way to them.

 

Mouse v joystick all skill equal, the joystick will win 80% of the time. People will joysticks would dominate and it would only lead to a lot of crying about them and less people doing space pvp because by far the majority of people will not be using joysticks.

 

I spent quite a bit of time in WW2 flight sims myself but have never any type of PvP space fighter games or sims. A question if i may, is the concept of energy mangement/Hi-E combat tactics viable in space ? I don't know if i'd be at all interested in turn and burn fighting like clicking i left the behind over a decade ago. I ask this question not with GS in mind but as i said just the concept of Hi-E in a low G enviorment.

[AlexDougherty]

I spent quite a bit of time in WW2 flight sims myself but have never any type of PvP space fighter games or sims. A question if i may, is the concept of energy mangement/Hi-E combat tactics viable in space ? I don't know if i'd be at all interested in turn and burn fighting like clicking i left the behind over a decade ago. I ask this question not with GS in mind but as i said just the concept of Hi-E in a low G enviorment.

 

Depends upon the game, to be honest, it is viable in some games, not in others. In some games Hi-explosives are just damage, in others they alter the flight path, and disappate quite quickly, it varies so much that a meaningful answer is nearly impossible.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

If they add 3-D artificial intelligence, I hope they apply it to the birds in the ground game too.

 

Birds climbing stairs like regular ground mobs after you push them down somewhere makes me laugh every time...

[Etheric]

Depends upon the game, to be honest, it is viable in some games, not in others. In some games Hi-explosives are just damage, in others they alter the flight path, and disappate quite quickly, it varies so much that a meaningful answer is nearly impossible.

 

Not talking explosives, High Energy Mangement. Its a type of aerial combat if you will where the pilot tries to maintain a speed advantage over ones opponent.

[AlexDougherty]

Not talking explosives, High Energy Mangement. Its a type of aerial combat if you will where the pilot tries to maintain a speed advantage over ones opponent.

 

Oh right, probably not in this game, it's going to be a fairly small area I think, big enough for a dogfight but you will hit the sides quickly if going at full pelt, so it's going to be down to maneouvring and gunpower rather than speed advantages, I'm not saying speed won't come into it, just that it probably be a minor consideration overall.

 

Sorry about the misunderstanding i googled hi-e combat and got high explosives.

[LordArtemis]

I would expect turn and burn physics even though it is in space.

[MajikMyst]

Ok, so please explain why games with amazing graphics and abysmal AI are so common? Most modern shooters come nowhere close to matching the AI of the soldiers in Half Life 1, a game released in 1998.

 

Making computer controlled enemies IS the hard part of making a game. More processing power gives you more to work with, but having developers with the intelligence and creativity to pull it off is not so abundant.

 

The space fighter element in SWTOR is really just a mini-game. While i would love to see what people are asking, it really involves making a whole separate game (with all the involved costs).

 

Really no joystick required. Ever played Freelancer?

 

Well.. See the issue here is, you are attempting to compare the AI of a FPS to a flight sim.. They are just not compatible..

 

When I think of combat flight sims, there really isn't that many that come to mind... The Star Wars ones obviously.. From X-Wing to X-Wing Alliance being the most recent.. The AI in all those games were pretty good for open space combat.. Then there was the descent series and the spin off Descent Free Space.. Novalogic made a few military flight sims.. F22 and a couple of others.. The AI in those weren't to bad, but not nearly as good as the Star Wars or Descent games.. Novalogic's Comanche games had a much better AI..

 

You have to put things in perspective here.. It is actually easier to program an AI for a flight sim than it is for a combat soldier in an FPS.. All they have to do is track the target (The player) and shoot at target, then do a random evasive maneuver from a preset library of maneuvers when the player is shooting at the AI.. Combat solders can hide behind stuff, have a restricted view to allow us to hide.. There is no hiding in a flight sim.. There just isn't much to an AI for a flight sim..

 

Look at the space missions we have now.. It wouldn't be to hard to make the fighters chase you.. Have a small library of evasive maneuvers.. A couple of weapons and missiles for them to choose from and you are good to go..

 

Really it isn't hard..

 

The hard part and the part that takes up the most time is actually setting up the quests and missions.. Setting up the triggers for completion.. Kind of like the space missions we already have.. Then of course building the environments..

 

Capital ships would be easy.. They just fly slowly on a set flight path and shoot at any enemy ship that gets in to range.. You can also have them shoot missiles.. Kind of like how they do now in the space missions we have now..

Edited November 6, 2013 by MajikMyst

[MajikMyst]

I would expect turn and burn physics even though it is in space.

 

Agreed!!

 

I expect it to be Star Wars.. Highly maneuverable and extremely fast.. At least the appearance of speed..

[LordArtemis]

Agreed!!

 

I expect it to be Star Wars.. Highly maneuverable and extremely fast.. At least the appearance of speed..

 

You just love to keep quoting me, don't you.