Sala Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Why design an operation that only Sage healers can cleanse a debuff, while other healers can not. This is just silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znihilist Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Why design an operation that only Sage healers can cleanse a debuff, while other healers can not. This is just silly. No that's a smart design, from both lore wise and game-play wise. It is silly that a commando can remove a force effect and a sage to remove a tech effect. Plus it encourage players to diversify. You don't agree and that's your right, I am saying it does make sense to make it so. Edit: it might very well be a bug in the end! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Isn't there a point in the skill tree that lets Ops/Scoundrels and Mercs/Mandoes to cleanse Force debuffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znihilist Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Isn't there a point in the skill tree that lets Ops/Scoundrels and Mercs/Mandoes to cleanse Force debuffs? No, they add the ability to remove mental effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krystianswtor Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 This is one thing they did good.... Otherwise it would be terrible design lore wise as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 This goes back to the player vs. class argument. A raid should be rewarded for bringing players of different classes, and not stacking fotm classes, but they should not be punished for not having a certain class. In an 8 person raid, there's a 1/3 chance that there won't be a sage/sorc healer. A team shouldn't be punished for bringing a composition that their players are more comfortable with. Also, to hell with your lore. If this was a mechanic that had been in place since launch, that would be one thing. But you can't start something like this when people have nearly two years invested in certain characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krystianswtor Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 This goes back to the player vs. class argument. A raid should be rewarded for bringing players of different classes, and not stacking fotm classes, but they should not be punished for not having a certain class. In an 8 person raid, there's a 1/3 chance that there won't be a sage/sorc healer. A team shouldn't be punished for bringing a composition that their players are more comfortable with. Also, to hell with your lore. If this was a mechanic that had been in place since launch, that would be one thing. But you can't start something like this when people have nearly two years invested in certain characters. To hell with lore ? This is Star Wars ! Lore > Mechanics/Gameplay + anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 If you have a dps sage, they can also help cleanse. I can be a problem though, we have a raid team that was formed out of friendship more than anything and we happen to have no sorcs at all, but what can you do, heal your *** off. It's not like we're going to bring an alt in or boot someone for a sorc just to cleanse that debuff. As long as it's not *imperative* that it is cleansed, it's not a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sala Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 1) I love star wars lore but that has nothing to do with this ingame mechanic and everything to do with alienating player from events. 2) Yes, a Sage DPS can help cleanse. That is not the point, there is absolutely no reason why an operative or medic can't be given the same opportunity to participate in the content, AS their class was intended. Which means, DPS doesnt heal, healers don't DPS etc.. 3) Not everyone is in a hardcore raiding guild that can work out special hybrid ways to overcome some of the raid challenges. What bothers me the most is that operatives and medis are not being given the same chance of enjoying the content under normal circumstances. There are already groups requesting just sage healers for this operation and that's just bull. Can I log in on my dps? yes. Can I log in on my consular healer? Yes. Again, that is not the point. The game should not exclude players from content like this. it's hard enough being a commando healer. We don't need this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARhenus Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Yeah why can't we everything? limiting nightmare ops to all but the best geared people... why design an operation like that? bad design bioware I suggest removing all stats and change all gear to purely cosmetic pieces. Each respective roles (dps/heal/tank) must have similar abilities, with only cosmetic differences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIshVidal Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I'm not sure what you have to cleanse and how bad it is if you don't cleanse as I haven't done the new operations yet, but in SnV the boss at the end of the city run with the coloured teams, throws out raid wide explosive probes (like the sniper ability that explodes on the next hit) that can't be cleansed by sages/sorcs. Admittedly the damage is not that significant and you only have time to cleanse 1 maybe 2 people ( usually a tank and myself) But when the dps is spread out killing the spawned turrets a sages aoe isn't going to help get everyone back up. Whereas if you've got tech healers that's possibly half your raid that isn't going to take that damage. Like I said it's not something that is generally gunna cause a wipe unless things are already going badly but the point is only certain healing classes being able to cleanse things in endgame operations is not something new in this patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trollokdamus Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 You guys amaze me. There is a mechanic that makes one healer class more viable then others, just because. A mechanic that makes raid leaders prioritize the said class over others, leaving those unfortunate people who happen to play the "wrong" class behind. Yet you say this is "the one thing they did good" and "a smart design"? This is ridiculous. I for one hope that this situation is just an oversight and will be fixed soon. To hell with lore ? This is Star Wars ! Lore > Mechanics/Gameplay + anything else Wrong. Foremost, this is a MMO, thus Mechanics/Gameplay >> Lore. I'm not saying that lore isn't important at all, what i'm saying is in this kind of game it should bow to gameplay, not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JattaGin Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Will commando medics stay the most unloved class for BW forever? How about you make an OP for which you need a medic in order to survive so that we don't keep hearing "A medic? No, thanks." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sala Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 Yeah why can't we everything? limiting nightmare ops to all but the best geared people... why design an operation like that? bad design bioware I suggest removing all stats and change all gear to purely cosmetic pieces. Each respective roles (dps/heal/tank) must have similar abilities, with only cosmetic differences Troll elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sala Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 I'm not sure what you have to cleanse and how bad it is if you don't cleanse as I haven't done the new operations yet, but in SnV the boss at the end of the city run with the coloured teams, throws out raid wide explosive probes (like the sniper ability that explodes on the next hit) that can't be cleansed by sages/sorcs. Admittedly the damage is not that significant and you only have time to cleanse 1 maybe 2 people ( usually a tank and myself) But when the dps is spread out killing the spawned turrets a sages aoe isn't going to help get everyone back up. Whereas if you've got tech healers that's possibly half your raid that isn't going to take that damage. Like I said it's not something that is generally gunna cause a wipe unless things are already going badly but the point is only certain healing classes being able to cleanse things in endgame operations is not something new in this patch. I absolutely agree with you. Cleanse is cleanse. It should be treated the same across the healing professions. SnV is less damage for sure but that is not the point, thanks for bringing that up as well. The one in dread fortress will wipe everyone if the sage is not superfast and the dps don't down the corruptors fast enough. I never asked for anything to be easy ingame, I just want to be able to participate in the content and not be excluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TandyUK Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 To hell with lore ? This is Star Wars ! Lore > Mechanics/Gameplay + anything else They threw that out of the window when giving us lightsabers without a power cord and belt mounted power pack! Sources: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber The timeline SWTOR is set in, the small handheld units we use had not even been invented yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestXv Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Wel this explains why I couldn't do the dread fortress with my op group. We had no idea that could be cleansed since we didn't have any sorcs at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Are you talking about mass affliction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestXv Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 I think so as all this talk about corruptors the only thing they do that owns groups is mass affliction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znihilist Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) You guys amaze me. There is a mechanic that makes one healer class more viable then others, just because. A mechanic that makes raid leaders prioritize the said class over others, leaving those unfortunate people who happen to play the "wrong" class behind. Yet you say this is "the one thing they did good" and "a smart design"? This is ridiculous. I for one hope that this situation is just an oversight and will be fixed soon. Wrong. Foremost, this is a MMO, thus Mechanics/Gameplay >> Lore. I'm not saying that lore isn't important at all, what i'm saying is in this kind of game it should bow to gameplay, not the other way around. You misunderstood my point that this is a smart design. My point was if they made "multiple mechanics" each better suited to different classes/spec that would be better, not toward just one class/spec. Uniformity is sometimes really dull! Edited October 4, 2013 by znihilist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) I think so as all this talk about corruptors the only thing they do that owns groups is mass affliction.I've only pugged that operation but even then it didnt take us long to assign people to simply interrupt it instead of having to deal with the consequences of it. Not sure how much more difficult that is to do on HM. In general I think it's kind of stupid that all healers can't cleanse all cleansable effects in PvE though. Edited October 4, 2013 by MidichIorian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceCorporalDan Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 I agree that if you have the proper group composition (as in healers/tanks/dps) that you should be able to clear content regardless of class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaceen Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 i haven't done every boss from the new ops yet, but i know the second boss in fortress has force and tech cleansable stuff in the same fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askesis Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Ok, listen here. I main an Op heals, but I need to stick up for my Sorc buddy. Did you forget that there's another DoT that ONLY Sorcs are unable to cleanse IN THE SAME FIGHT? Yea, said DoT is also unavoidable, while the DoT that only Sorc can cleanse can be completely (and should always be) prevented. Really, if anything, Sorcs have a disadvantage here, not an advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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