Warzones/Arena please let the player decide!

[Savej]

How so?

Are you only doing Ranked? Because if that's the case, then good for you but not everyone does.

 

Yep - solo or group ranked = no more Huttball. That's the first time I've functionally had this choice. Except for lowbies or those that like Huttball or those that like often very lopsided games, I'm not sure why everyone isn't doing ranked atm.

 

edit: and for the record I did quit huttball games whenever q'd for awhile and and still have been occasionally lately but it isn't that simple. Sometimes if you re-q you get right back into the same huttball or another one and the pvp downtime starts to pile up.

[TheNahash]

Yep - solo or group ranked = no more Huttball. That's the first time I've functionally had this choice. Except for lowbies or those that like Huttball or those that like often very lopsided games, I'm not sure why everyone isn't doing ranked atm.

 

Maybe because we don't like Arenas and we do like Huttball?

[TheNahash]

MMOs are not just code and feature implementations.. they are also giant social behavior exhibits. Half the battle is figuring out what the bulk of your player base actually wants and will play... and for that they need more then just player requests and feedback.. they need to actually observe the player base when it is in game and make adjustments from there. I get this. What is remarkable to me is the number of people in this thread (even normally thoughtful and reasonable people) who don't get this.

 

It's not about "getting it", Andryah. We understand perfectly fine what Eric explained.

That doesn't mean they are right OR that they need time to "observe the playerbase".

 

If you were made to queue for Ops AND FPs at the same time, without the option to choose just one of those, would you still continue to support this idea that all changes need time? And that is a perfect example because a universal queue for all PVE content would really lower the waiting times for PVErs but... at what cost?

 

With all due respect, quite honestly, I don't understand how you are not getting this.

[AMulls]

As for the topic itself. The request has been made. Eric has answered why it is the way it is at this time. Everyone has expressed their personal views and opinions 4 ways to Sunday. They will do what they always do.. monitor and gather data on the player base moving through the queue and into PvP. They have great telemetry on this game.. so if at the end of a month or so.. the telemetry shows too many disruptions to PvP instances lighting off due to people dropping.... they will sort it out and do something about it.

 

Whatever they do.. people will complain and demand they do it a different way. This is particularly true for PvP players in MMOs in general.

 

MMOs are not just code and feature implementations.. they are also giant social behavior exhibits. Half the battle is figuring out what the bulk of your player base actually wants and will play... and for that they need more then just player requests and feedback.. they need to actually observe the player base when it is in game and make adjustments from there. I get this. What is remarkable to me is the number of people in this thread (even normally thoughtful and reasonable people) who don't get this.

 

You know what else would provide good data and help with telemetry? And at the same time provide a much clearer glimpse into player behavior? Choice.

 

Even if it's a matter of three options for PVP (not counting ranked v. reg):

1. Queue for any PVP (WZ or Arena)

2. Queue for WZ only (not even breaking down by zone, but just 8 v. 8)

3. Queue for Arena only

 

This would accomplish exactly what you're suggesting (data mining) just as easily, if not more so, than trying to break out people leaving because they didn't get the one they wanted without choice. Not to mention, the telemetry you discuss would potentially be skewed in the direction they want, based purely on the design of the system. With choice, the data would be much more accurate as to the desires of PVP players.

 

With the current system, I have no choice whether to queue for 8v8 or 4v4. As many folks have said, they will immediately leave if they get one over the other. This provides data to Bioware about the desirability of their arenas and/or warzones. However, I'd bet that many more of us will just suck it up and play the 4v4 if it pops simply to get the daily/weekly done and avoid the hassle of quitting and requeueing (sp?). Which would will skew the numbers exactly the way Bioware wants them. Just because I play the 4v4 doesn't mean I want to. It means the alternative is worse. But if I had the choice, I wouldn't queue for 4v4.

 

Based on this scenario, the data via telemetry that you're suggesting they are using will show that everyone "loves" the new arenas because they are playing them. When in reality, they are only playing them because the only other choice is to waste more time or not play at all.

 

TLDR: choice gives the developers much more accurate data into what is desirable and what is not.

[Savej]

Maybe because we don't like Arenas and we do like Huttball?

 

I mentioned you in the 3rd or 4th sentence.

 

But what exactly don't you like about arenas tho? How much of a chance have you given them? Are you a touch football player?

[AlienEyeTX]

(Emphasis mine.)

 

I agree with this assessment. Those who don't want to play arenas will have a hard time either way.

 

I also agree that the closest anology would be to not let PvE players decide on the content they want to queue for. They get the choice of different variation of the same type, while PvP players don't even get the choice of different types. People were already unhappy with Huttball being lumped together with the other warzones and asked for a choice. Instead of improving the situation by giving players a little more choice this is just making it worse.

 

It's all around sad that quitting is the only option right now. That neither helps those who want to do arenas nor does it help those who don't want to do them. It just helps the devs forcing their will on the players.

 

While I would like options for the PvP queue, it is not the same as PvE. The PvE content is directly related to the story (which is a slightly important part of the game for many),

 

Again, I do think there should be options on the PvP queue beyond ranked or unranked... but don't compare it to or drag PvE into this.

[Andryah]

While I would like options for the PvP queue, it is not the same as PvE. The PvE content is directly related to the story (which is a slightly important part of the game for many),

 

Again, I do think there should be options on the PvP queue beyond ranked or unranked... but don't compare it to or drag PvE into this.

 

/Agree

[Stoofa]

As said above, yes arenas were mentioned and yes some people expressed an interest in them.

What I can categorically say is that the majority of the player base was not interested in them. However this was the quiet majority.

 

The problem we have with BW, and it's been this case from the very beginning, is that in the majority of cases it is the vocal minority that get what they want added/changed/removed from this game.

If everyone was forced to voice an opinion on any given subject then maybe BW would see fair answer to their questions.

What happens right now is that the vocal minority make "yet another" post on the same subject, the majority just say "ah god, not another thread on this subject" and leave well alone. Then before you know it the thing is implemented because "the community asked for it".

 

I'm pleased to say that I am getting into 8-man WZ's - alas I can only apologise again to those people affected when I've just left an arena pop.

[Savej]

If q's pop more slowly then less people will q. It's a vicious cycle that I've seen happen in this game before (with waning server populations and various group finders).

 

Keep the q's popping, keep the momentum. If enough people are playing the pvp then consider alternative q types.

[TheNahash]

While I would like options for the PvP queue, it is not the same as PvE. The PvE content is directly related to the story (which is a slightly important part of the game for many),

 

Again, I do think there should be options on the PvP queue beyond ranked or unranked... but don't compare it to or drag PvE into this.

 

Oh come on, now you are grasping at straws.

So, you're telling me that you having the option to choose what you want to queue for in PVE using Group Finder is somehow related to.... the story?

Seriously, now?

At least Eric's excuse, makes some sense.

 

PVE is story, yes. But Group finder is a convenience tool and that is all there is to say about it. A QoL thing. And it works as it should. You queue and it helps you find a group to do what YOU want to do. Don't try to make sound as if it somehow has ANYTHING to do with the story.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

If q's pop more slowly then less people will q. It's a vicious cycle that I've seen happen in this game before (with waning server populations and various group finders).

 

Keep the q's popping, keep the momentum. If enough people are playing the pvp then consider alternative q types.

 

There is no point is queue's popping when those of us who do not want to play arenas, will drop out, leaving the rest of you shorthanded.

 

Separate the queues now, and let the arenas live or die on their own merit, not by trying to make the paying customer do something he/she does not want to.

[TheNahash]

I mentioned you in the 3rd or 4th sentence.

 

But what exactly don't you like about arenas tho? How much of a chance have you given them? Are you a touch football player?

 

It's not about Huttball specifically. I don't enjoy having no objectives at all - well, other than "kill anything that moves". I have no problem with those that enjoy deathmatch maps. In fact, I've said many times that I'm happy they added something for the PVP community. I just don't agree (at all) with the WAY they chose to implement it - and that is by forcing all of us who liked the original warzones to take part in it.

[Savej]

As said above, yes arenas were mentioned and yes some people expressed an interest in them.

What I can categorically say is that the majority of the player base was not interested in them. However this was the quiet majority.

 

I don't believe for one second that you speak for "the majority". Look at Wow: arenas have been very popular there amongst most of the endgame pvpers for a very long time. They are a highlight of that game even if one dev expressed regrets about them.

 

People don't start and post in threads asking for the same things over and over with no response ad infinitum. Even hood toggles died after a dev said no time soon and the only reason that thread stayed near the top was because that board was near dead and a couple people decided to keep bumping it.

 

in game I got lots of "no arenas?" comments from new players and they were answered with "someday, who knows when" until recently.

[hallucigenocide]

what's the point in having arenas in normal q anyway? you still got ranked solo q's so why even bother having it in both? if people really want to do it they can just go for ranked right? i tried it and as it is now it's no difference at all i just get different comms.

 

arenas and ranked wz's should be the competitive bit and regular wz's the casual bit.

[Vember]

I don't believe for one second that you speak for "the majority". Look at Wow: arenas have been very popular there amongst most of the endgame pvpers for a very long time. They are a highlight of that game even if one dev expressed regrets about them.

 

People don't start and post in threads asking for the same things over and over with no response ad infinitum. Even hood toggles died after a dev said no time soon and the only reason that thread stayed near the top was because that board was near dead and a couple people decided to keep bumping it.

 

in game I got lots of "no arenas?" comments from new players and they were answered with "someday, who knows when" until recently.

 

You're missing the point. Nobody here is saying there should be no arenas. What we're all saying is that arenas should be separate. I agree with the assessment that the majority won't queue for them, which is, in my opinion, exactly the reasoning behind forcing them into the warzone queue rotation, which in turn causes this debate. Even in WoW, i'd say the actual Arena playing population is very small compared to the overall pvp population.

[jankiel]

And on the other hand people interested only in arenas also get the short end. I have been forced to drop out of most games today because instead of the arenas i got into old warzones.

 

The current system will make people not interested in pvp. No one wants to waist loads of time on reloging each time they drop out.

[Slurmez]

I will quit out of each and every arena I am forced to join

[LordArtemis]

I don't think the game was ready for Arenas. I think the anger over immediate balance demands, the rate at which folks are dropping out of Arena matches and the generally poor reviews of Arena play in this game (one was positive but still derided Bioware for not allowing players to choose) are all symptoms of a wider issue.....

 

PVP is not a good fit here. But it could be. It would, however, take a level of risk and courage that I would not expect any sane business to have, and would not blame Bioware if they played it safe.

 

I certainly hope I am wrong, and Arena implementation now serves to boost the PVP community.

 

IMO PVP needs a complete teardown and rebuild from the ground up....using the SSSP GUI and ability/attack system. I also think gear needs to be completely removed from the equation.

 

No more stats based on gear. Access to one ability bar. No pots. No buffs. All stats based on class, ground level, boosted by Expertise which has a base and is boosted by RANK, rank based on victories or player kills/supports.

 

PVP should be a separate entity that has its own skills, balance set and it should be brutal. That is what the PVP in this game needs IMO.

 

They need to take PVE out of PVP.

[ThePedigree]

Zoom_VI is on the right path here. As we continue to separate queues, we will continue to increase queue times. Our goal is to make sure you can get into the PvP action ASAP!

 

Hope that answers your question.

 

-eric

 

Just echoing what many other people have said, but your refusal to separate the queues just creates several other issues for both sides. Firstly, the people who want to only do Objective-Base (non-deathmatch) warzones like myself will quit out of arenas. This leaves the people who do want to do arena (or are neutral and don't care which type they will play) shorthanded. This adds an extra inconvenience for everyone as the people who quit have to go through the hassle of reloading to whatever planet/fleet they are on and requeue. It adds to the inconvenient of the people wanting to do arena as it is almost a forgone conclusion (except in some rare cases) that they will he handed a loss by the team with a full 4 players. And it is a third inconvenience as players of either side that might be F2P and not using a weekly pass are basically consuming one of their weekly games to either quit out or auto-lose if they are on the short-handed team.

 

This also adds to the frustration level of everyone on each side, which may make them not want to play the game or queue at all. Which would lead to increased queue times in the end. As its in your best interest to keep people playing and paying, this isn't good for you either.

 

The solution is not to add a deserter debuff either. You'll further alienate the people who don't want to play Arena, and scare off more players. You may not like it, it might not be your design vision or goal, but the lesser of two evils is to separate the queue. It's better for the players on boht sides of the fence, and for you as a company.

 

We tried to warn you about this for the last 2 months.

[AlienEyeTX]

And on the other hand people interested only in arenas also get the short end. I have been forced to drop out of most games today because instead of the arenas i got into old warzones.

 

The current system will make people not interested in pvp. No one wants to waist loads of time on reloging each time they drop out.

 

/Agree. This is my experience today. I only want to play the arenas. I keep getting the old WZs that I have zero interest in. I've had an arena pop just one time.

 

This is definitely not the way to get me interested in PvP. So much time wasted on loading screens!

[hallucigenocide]

here's a thought.. give us 3 options.. warzones only,arenas only and the third you sign up for both (the third could have a little bonus comms and valor tied to it) that way people get what they want and those that go for your way of doing both get a lil extra for doing so.

 

people that only wish to do one of these options can most likely live without getting that bonus and both warzones and arenas will get the people who sign up for doing both so in my eyes that's a win win.

[TheNahash]

here's a thought.. give us 3 options.. warzones only,arenas only and the third you sign up for both (the third could have a little bonus comms and valor tied to it) that way people get what they want and those that go for your way of doing both get a lil extra for doing so.

 

people that only wish to do one of these options can most likely live without getting that bonus and both warzones and arenas will get the people who sign up for doing both so in my eyes that's a win win.

 

Apparently, that's too "complex" for Bioware.

Even though that's EXACTLY how Group Finder works.

Go figure...

[TUXs]

here's a thought.. give us 3 options.. warzones only,arenas only and the third you sign up for both (the third could have a little bonus comms and valor tied to it) that way people get what they want and those that go for your way of doing both get a lil extra for doing so.

 

people that only wish to do one of these options can most likely live without getting that bonus and both warzones and arenas will get the people who sign up for doing both so in my eyes that's a win win.

 

That's exactly how it should have been done. Offer a separate daily mission for ARENAS and WARZONES to encourage PvPers to do BOTH!

[Darknessinme]

here's a thought.. give us 3 options.. warzones only,arenas only and the third you sign up for both (the third could have a little bonus comms and valor tied to it) that way people get what they want and those that go for your way of doing both get a lil extra for doing so.

 

people that only wish to do one of these options can most likely live without getting that bonus and both warzones and arenas will get the people who sign up for doing both so in my eyes that's a win win.

 

That's exactly how it should have been done. Offer a separate daily mission for ARENAS and WARZONES to encourage PvPers to do BOTH!

 

 

^This please!

[GalacticKegger]

That's exactly how it should have been done. Offer a separate daily mission for ARENAS and WARZONES to encourage PvPers to do BOTH!

+10. Having the choice of queueing (as ranked or unranked) for a WZ only, an Arena match only, or both ... while earning separate daily completion awards for each ... would definitely be a good thing.