Warzones/Arena please let the player decide!

[Xienive]

These need to be separated, period.

 

If people are constantly dropping out of WZ's to get into arenas or dropping out of arenas constantly to get into WZ's then what's the point? We all know that it will happen, and often. I would rather wait a bit longer and ensure I start off with 4 people in my arena than get in fast and not have a full team.

[metalfenix]

what's the point of "faster" queues if you'll end up playing a 4v3 game, or might end with quitters on old warzones (for people who want arenas)?

 

The whole idea of putting together all the queues on PvP is absurd. do something similar to PvE GF, give a daily comm reward for choosing to queue a random WZ between all (yeah including arenas) and let people queue for individual types of matchs (like for example, only for huttball, or only arenas).

 

Another idea would be, stay with the current comm rewards for each game, and give higher comm rewards for those who try their luck at random between all the pvp matches.

[manchusabre]

Yeah this seems like a no brainer that this should have been an option. I don't think the wait is a big deal. I never want to play huttball again and don't have a problem doing only arenas. I know in one day we've seen people quit queing ranked and go back to super queing regular warzones to steam roll pugs. Is it too difficult to add 2 que buttons for options?

[eartharioch]

what's the point of "faster" queues if you'll end up playing a 4v3 game, or might end with quitters on old warzones (for people who want arenas)?

 

The whole idea of putting together all the queues on PvP is absurd. do something similar to PvE GF, give a daily comm reward for choosing to queue a random WZ between all (yeah including arenas) and let people queue for individual types of matchs (like for example, only for huttball, or only arenas).

 

Another idea would be, stay with the current comm rewards for each game, and give higher comm rewards for those who try their luck at random between all the pvp matches.

 

I was just thinking something along those lines...

 

Queue Solo: Interface has five check boxes -- Civil War, Hypergate, Huttball, Voidstar, and Arenas.

Queue Group: Interface has only Arenas for now.

 

Daily (Solo Queue): Complete X warzones. If you had all options selected and haven't quit a WZ in < 10 minutes, the WZ counts as 2 WZs.

 

Weekly (Solo Queue): Complete each of the five warzones at least once (maybe twice, whatever).

 

Give people incentives to try Arenas, but reduce the number of "failed" Arenas caused by people "deserting" b/c that WZ showed up.

[Lightrider]

what's the point of "faster" queues if you'll end up playing a 4v3 game, or might end with quitters on old warzones (for people who want arenas)?

.

 

I think the point is that if you give people the choice, they will be picky. However, if you consolidate the queues, the picky people will be more willing to give whatever map comes up a chance. Of course, there's the exception you mentioned regarding quitters, but they're probably in the minority, not the majority.

 

Choice = Good

Extreme Wait Times = Bad

[metalfenix]

I think the point is that if you give people the choice, they will be picky. However, if you consolidate the queues, the picky people will be more willing to give whatever map comes up a chance. Of course, there's the exception you mentioned regarding quitters, but they're probably in the minority, not the majority.

 

Choice = Good

Extreme Wait Times = Bad

 

What you call "picky" for me is freedom of choice. People will actually go to the WZ they want, and probably you will end with better teams up there. And what you call "choice" for me is forcing random WZ wich may not be the one you like.

 

I'm not telling that they should eliminate the random big queue, on the contrary, they should keep it, and give more comms as an incentive to do them (kinda like PvE GF, or some daily or weekly mission for PvP), but they should add the possibilty for joining the types of matchs we like.

 

Choice = Good (on that we agree, pity that we seem to disagree on the actual choice)

Extreme Wait Times = good if we get an actual team that play as intended, and not just to stay there quiet waiting for the WZ to end to get the comms, or just quitting at the beginning of the match.

 

The extreme waiting queues can't be worse than the ones of PvE GF...but well, if we keep with this system, we'll have to deal with quitters almost all the time, and you can't blame them.

[Lightrider]

What you call "picky" for me is freedom of choice. People will actually go to the WZ they want, and probably you will end with better teams up there. And what you call "choice" for me is forcing random WZ wich may not be the one you like.

 

I'm not telling that they should eliminate the random big queue, on the contrary, they should keep it, and give more comms as an incentive to do them (kinda like PvE GF, or some daily or weekly mission for PvP), but they should add the possibilty for joining the types of matchs we like.

 

Choice = Good (on that we agree, pity that we seem to disagree on the actual choice)

Extreme Wait Times = good if we get an actual team that play as intended, and not just to stay there quiet waiting for the WZ to end to get the comms, or just quitting at the beginning of the match.

 

The extreme waiting queues can't be worse than the ones of PvE GF...but well, if we keep with this system, we'll have to deal with quitters almost all the time, and you can't blame them.

 

It's cool that you're willing to deal with extreme wait times, but I disagree that it's fair to make everyone on all servers suffer these waits, because a smaller portion of people only want to do certain warzones.

[metalfenix]

It's cool that you're willing to deal with extreme wait times, but I disagree that it's fair to make everyone on all servers suffer these waits, because a smaller portion of people only want to do certain warzones.

 

Then we'll be talking in circles, because I don't find fair that people have to endure 4v3 or 4v2 matches because 1 or 2 left the match because that wasn't the type of WZ they had been expecting.

 

Now, this problem has been around for a LONG time, but affects a lot more the arenas, since one quitter affects a lot the team.

[Lightrider]

Then we'll be talking in circles, because I don't find fair that people have to endure 4v3 or 4v2 matches because 1 or 2 left the match because that wasn't the type of WZ they had been expecting.

 

Now, this problem has been around for a LONG time, but affects a lot more the arenas, since one quitter affects a lot the team.

 

Agreed, neither situation is entirely fair. My opinion is that one affects more people, and one is the lesser of 2 evils.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

Separating arenas into a separate queue, will not, in the medium term, increase waiting time for those of us who only want to do 8man, objective based warzones.

 

In a few weeks, nobody will queue for arenas anyway, they are ****, the longevity of these things is next to zero, they merely pander to the duellist.

 

The devs do not want their newly made pretty little arenas being empty, so will remove my option of not playing them.

 

This could really end the game for me, I only PVP, I do not want to play arenas, so they are essentially telling me this game is no longer for me. Nice way to pressure people into cancelling their subscription.

 

PVP is a red headed stepchild for bioware, they do not want it in their game clearly.

 

Two outcomes, they add in separate arena queues, or add in a quitter debuff, the latter will end my sub instantly.

 

In the meantime, I personally will be petulant and leave every arena I am placed in at the start, therefore spoiling the game for the other people left in it, not ideal, but I will not be told how to play a game that I am paying to play.

[FrogSkin]

...

PVP is a red headed stepchild for bioware, they do not want it in their game clearly.

...

 

Bioware may make bad design decisions, but your statement couldn't be further from the truth.

 

Bioware is a for profit company and the development effort put into SWTOR costs money.

 

So they dont do PvP development just so they can say they have PvP.

 

If Bioware didnt care about PvP they would just remove it.

 

Not giving players ability to queue for multiple warzone types seems a little short sighted and one can only assume it required more development effort than the PvP Development budget could afford.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

...........If Bioware didnt care about PvP they would just remove it....................Not giving players ability to queue for multiple warzone types seems a little short sighted and one can only assume it required more development effort than the PvP Development budget could afford.

 

And yet they had the budget to REMOVE 8man ranked, against the wishes of the PVP community in general.

[FrogSkin]

And yet they had the budget to REMOVE 8man ranked, against the wishes of the PVP community in general.

 

Removing things is easier and cheaper than build or refactoring existing systems.

 

Dont get me wrong, I only PvP and am extremely frustrated with Bioware and some of their decisions.

 

However at the moment I still think its the best MMO PvP option until some of the new MMO's in beta come out.

 

Personally I am leaning towards WildStar and when that comes out, my account closes and I close the SWTOR chapter of my MMO PvP gaming experience.

[Vaerah]

I think the point is that if you give people the choice, they will be picky. However, if you consolidate the queues, the picky people will be more willing to give whatever map comes up a chance. Of course, there's the exception you mentioned regarding quitters, but they're probably in the minority, not the majority.

 

Choice = Good

Extreme Wait Times = Bad

 

People quitting SWTOR because they got tired of this crap system = worse.

 

Because that's what will happen: after the first days people will get tired of perma-leaving the unwanted type of PvP zones. And not just them:

 

- It'll be frustrating starting arenas in 4v3 all the time, as this easily means defeat.

- It'll be frustrating starting WZs as well. 7v8 is not as bad as 4v3 but it's bad already.

- It'll be frustrating for those who do the quitting, because loading the zones in and out takes away good time.

 

Most of all, there's a factor nobody took into account: groups composition.

If arenas are composed by "proper" classes compositions, this means the huge excess of DPS is going to flood WZs, which will be devastated by the lack of tanks and healers.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

Removing things is easier and cheaper than build or refactoring existing systems.

 

Dont get me wrong, I only PvP and am extremely frustrated with Bioware and some of their decisions.

 

However at the moment I still think its the best MMO PvP option until some of the new MMO's in beta come out.

 

Personally I am leaning towards WildStar and when that comes out, my account closes and I close the SWTOR chapter of my MMO PvP gaming experience.

 

I think we are in agreement in the main, perhaps just both past the frustration stage at the mess that this wonderful game is turning into for us.

 

I only PVP, I don't count running the story arcs only as PVE content, although they are fun, but without PVP, this game has nothing to offer me, other than its licence, and I can only tell myself so many times...."but it's star wars".

[ThorgrimLutgen]

...........................Most of all, there's a factor nobody took into account: groups composition.

If arenas are composed by "proper" classes compositions, this means the huge excess of DPS is going to flood WZs, which will be devastated by the lack of tanks and healers.

 

Hmm, are you thinking that if I queue as one of my DPS toons, I am more likely to get a proper warzone rather than an arena? That is food for thought if it's correct. Might be time to hang up my healer and tanks boots.

 

However, I am not sure the team composition is in game for the regular queue to be honest, but it is for the ranked queue.

[DarthSabreth]

Removing things is easier and cheaper than build or refactoring existing systems.

 

Dont get me wrong, I only PvP and am extremely frustrated with Bioware and some of their decisions.

 

However at the moment I still think its the best MMO PvP option until some of the new MMO's in beta come out.

 

Personally I am leaning towards WildStar and when that comes out, my account closes and I close the SWTOR chapter of my MMO PvP gaming experience.

 

I agree with you, BW has been making some really poor decisions for this game, its almost as if they want the games license to not be renewed so they can sigh in relief and not have to worry about this. I waited a long time for this game to come out. they do almost the exact opposite of what most of their paying customers want.

 

As far as the 8v8 rateds they failed because there was no cross server ques, they should have been focusing on them instead of 4v4 duels, and then to make Paying customers do them esp when there is no class balance, no matchmaking, no intent to tone down the stuns and fix the resolve system they broke with 1.4.

 

A couple of weeks ago I threw in the towel and canceled, my sub runs out in a week. the best parts about this game are the friends I made and it was a continuation of KOTOR.

 

the cons are

1. lack of Dev interest in the community.

2. lack of consideration of what we want.

3. adding things we don't ask for or don't want.

4. failure to add cross server ques.

 

most of my friends I know quit, and have jumped ship, hang even the credit sellers don't even spam general or the mail system anymore. (not that its a good thing but even they have no interest in loitering in fleet)

 

do I think SWTOR is a failure... NO but the interaction between BW and the community is lacking if they added good things to the game would I return... SURE after all I want the game to succeed but I highly doubt it will get better before it gets much worse.

 

no game is perfect but most companies try to add good things for customers to purchase or have an interest in their product and right now there isn't anything worth buying (subbing) from BW.

[MaximusRex]

I love how this company rips off WoWs ideas, but not enough to be remotely close in quality. This is a big failure, and I urge you all to support people dropping arenas.

 

Players shouldn't drop arenas, they should just run in and suicide, that would be much more effective in getting a change when those who don't want to be there start screwing over those who do.

[APCrol]

On my server you can at times wait almost ten minutes for a pop, I don't want to image how long the queue would get if people where allowed to be picky

If they give options to choose old 8x8 or new 4x4 or both and it really increasing time of queue this only means that there are many people wich dislike 8x8 or 4x4. So u think its good to make people wich dislike any type of WZ play them?

 

If im choosing a sniper or lightning sorcerer i never want to get 4x4 arena with such small rooms where i will die in a seconds where often u got a team of 3 against 4 cause people leaving where u got a team of 4 damagers against 2 healers tank and damager.

 

So why should i loose fun?

[discbox]

I've never been a big pvp player. But I played the 'old' warzones to get some items. And I liked it - and played pvp in SW:TOR.

 

Now... I think I will stop pvp, because there is nothing I like in the arenas.

 

For players like me: You better made a new Hutball map with the development time spend on arenas.

[APCrol]

Zoom_VI is on the right path here. As we continue to separate queues, we will continue to increase queue times. Our goal is to make sure you can get into the PvP action ASAP!

So lets remove choice of role and name of FP in PvE queue! It will be great, isnt it? Let Those PvE players play as 4 damagers, remove respec ability at FP's! It will decrease queue time (sometimes it 30-60 min), PvE players will like it! No? Why?

[Stoofa]

Hey discbox!

 

You raise a good question and it is one I can answer. There are two reasons it appears as it does currently in the queue. First, what you have to keep in mind is that Arenas are a new type of Warzone. Similar to how Huttball is a type of Warzone and Voidstar is a type. Technically each different Warzone currently in the game is its own type, with a single map of that type. Warzone Arenas are the "type" 4v4 deathmatch with 3 different maps. That is why they are in the Warzone queue.

 

Secondly...

 

 

Zoom_VI is on the right path here. As we continue to separate queues, we will continue to increase queue times. Our goal is to make sure you can get into the PvP action ASAP!

 

Hope that answers your question.

 

-eric

 

No - Hutball and Voidstar are different variations on the same theme, a WZ with an objective.

Be that plant bombs, guard doors, guard endzones, pass balls, score goals, download computers.

They have in common, along with Novare, Civil War and Ancient Hypergate, the fact that "just killing" will not win you the WZ (with the exception possibly of AH).

Team composition was always all over the place in random 8-man WZ's but unless you were up against a pre-made you always had a chance.

So the only change required to the 8-man WZ's would have been the removal of the ability for 8-man teams to queue for them.

The new arena's are different to the old WZ's as the only objective is kill people. To be honest it's a pretty dumbed-down PvP system which some people simply do not like.

A player of any ability to take part in an 8-man WZ and even if not great can still have some enjoyment. With a 4-man kill team it emphasises even more the fact that people have to be good, there is no room to be carried and some people will be put-off by this.

 

I've played 2 arenas and they are the only ones I'll be playing - I will not play any more.

Team compositions are silly, 4v3 should not happen and they are simply not fun.

You talk about reducing queue times and I'm assuming you also want to increase enjoyment as well. So tell me where the enjoyment is for a team when one of the players from the 4 immediately leaves the WZ as it pops leaving the team with 3? (sorry to any team I've done this to - but it will keep happening).

You could add a de-buff or penalty for leaving (as you seem hell-bent on forcing things on to people) but that will not help things. I'll take the de-buff or penalty and not queue again for as long as it's in effect - so increase in pop times again.

 

You ARE reducing the time it takes for a zone to pop by forcing arenas on people - so you can put a tick in that box and if that is all you care about then consider your new addition a success.

If however you want to look at all the statistics then you'll notice people will just leave an arena every time it pops and some people are just going to get fed-up of being on the receiving end of this and stop doing PvP.

You seem determined to ruin this aspect of the game - I mean, 2.4 was supposed to be the "PvP patch" but hardly delivered here.

 

Image if for 2.4 you had done the following:

 

4 new 8v8 WZ's, all objective based

Removal of full 8-man and 2x 4-man teams from regular 8man WZ's

Addition of 4v4 arenas with no objectives except killing - accessible via the WZ groupfinder - select 8man and/or 4man queues

 

I can tell you now you'd have some happy PvP'ers.

Let us see now if you're still singing the same tune as people do just quit out of content they do not want anything to do with (arenas) and being forced on them.

If you decide to ignore the issue then I'll assume it isn't as widespread issue as I believe and I'll just continue to quit out of them and wait for the 8man to pop.

[Hyrune]

My 2 credits on this: The match making for regs WZ is borked for arenas.

 

Yesterday I tried both solo ranked and regular queues.

* In regs: I always got 4 dps vs 1 healer and 3 mates. We always losed in a glimpse. Even by outplaying the opposing team we were close to win but still losed.

* In ranked: that was way better. The teams are supposed to use the same number of dps/heal/tank. In fact, on 10 games I did a 3vs4 and a 5vs4

 

IMO, either keep the arena for regs but ensure both teams have the same role balance or remove them.

[Kontraz]

IMO, either keep the arena for regs but ensure both teams have the same role balance or remove them.

 

that's my biggest gripe with the system. I won't leave every arena automatically, but whenever it is 4 dps vs an actual team composition, I'm out before it starts. No use wasting time.

[jankiel]

I've been trying to get into an arena in lowbie whole morning today.

 

Yet again, huttball.

 

The lack of choice is frustrating.