Why do we need Expertise?

[einark]

I have a question: What's the point of having Expertise stats? Why do we need different gear for PvP and PvE? Can't we just lose Expertise and make it so everyone can use all gear for anything and only the base stats count towards having better gear?

[Neoforcer]

I have a question: What's the point of having Expertise stats? Why do we need different gear for PvP and PvE? Can't we just lose Expertise and make it so everyone can use all gear for anything and only the base stats count towards having better gear?

 

Because i don't want to have to run raid to pvp if we had no pvp gear then every one would have to run HM raid to be geared as the other guy.

[cashogy_reborn]

Or we could go to a crafting based gear system where the rewards from PvP and PvE are unique item skins/aesthetic only.

[einark]

Because i don't want to have to run raid to pvp if we had no pvp gear then every one would have to run HM raid to be geared as the other guy.

 

Why would you have to raid for gear? You could still get gear with PvP commendations, with same stats as the raid gear. So people can choose what they want to do to get the gear, wouldn't matter. I don't see why this is so complicated to so many people and especially devs. For the love of the galaxy far far away, think outside of the box.

[sithBracer]

Why would you have to raid for gear? You could still get gear with PvP commendations, with same stats as the raid gear. So people can choose what they want to do to get the gear, wouldn't matter. I don't see why this is so complicated to so many people and especially devs. For the love of the galaxy far far away, think outside of the box.

 

It was actually created (by a different MMO I believe) to protect PvE. If people can easily get the gear from PvP instead of taking a long hard grind in PvE they most likely would and in many cases would ignore heroics (in WoW) and lower tier raids by going around them through PvP. Bioware and other companies don't want to risk people not doing PvE since that is their bread and butter (being the longest grind, so the longest subscriptions). I know this explanation might not make sense given the type of PvP gear we have today, but I believe that the previous PvP gear had some important secondary stats missing from it to make room for expertise. This made PvP geared people a lot weaker in PvE (especially tanks who seriously relied on those secondary stats). But after adding the bolster, I believe PvP gear is similar to PvE gear (only the highest grade you can get is 154 compared to the 175 in PvE).

 

If I am wrong, I apologize and please correct me.

[Mallorik]

Why would you have to raid for gear? You could still get gear with PvP commendations, with same stats as the raid gear. So people can choose what they want to do to get the gear, wouldn't matter. I don't see why this is so complicated to so many people and especially devs. For the love of the galaxy far far away, think outside of the box.

 

If you still want to only get your gear from pvp tokens why do you care if its got expertise on it?

 

Its in the game to protect pve from pvp noobs and protect pvp from pve noobs.

[MrGoldsilver]

If you still want to only get your gear from pvp tokens why do you care if its got expertise on it?

 

Its in the game to protect pve from pvp noobs and protect pvp from pve noobs.

 

Too bad bolster makes pve gear around the same as pvp gear. (Not a anti-bolster post, just a fact)

[demystified]

This game caters to the pve crowd which is why we have bolster and expertise.

If a lot of pvp players buy cartel packs then maybe we can see another warzone in less than 9 months but currently, it takes 9 months before pvpers get anything good.

[Zoom_VI]

Think of it this way. Do you want a bunch of raiders coming into your war zone so they can farm medals for their raid gear?

[AngusFTW]

You need seperate gear with expertise because pve gear has significantly higher base stats than pvp. You might ask, why not just give pvp gear the same stats as pve gear. The reasoning for this is simple

 

• in pvp you don't have to win all the time to progress to better gear you get coms after every wz.
  
• in pve you have to make progression/get a raid on farm to get the gear. You need to get 8 people together for ops then clear the content, this takes significantly more organisation just solo qing lots of wzs for the coms (You don't even have to win to get coms)
  
• You need to get a basic idea of the mechanics on each boss before attempting the highest difficulty raids, hence why you do story modes then into hard modes then into nightmare modes. When gearing up through these you learn about the mechanics.
  
• If you could get the best pve gear via pvp, you'd have loads of people running around in BIS gear which technically could do nightmare content but they'd have no idea since they haven't even done story mode/hard mode.
  
• PVE players will complain so much about all of the above.
  

Edited September 5, 2013 by AngusFTW

[wildcoast]

[*] You need to get a basic idea of the mechanics on each boss before attempting the highest difficulty raids, hence why you do story modes then into hard modes then into nightmare modes. When gearing up through these you learn about the mechanics.

[*] If you could get the best pve gear via pvp, you'd have loads of people running around in BIS gear which technically could do nightmare content but they'd have no idea since they haven't even done story mode/hard mode.

[*] PVE players will complain so much about all of the above.

 

On the other hand, if the best pvp gear came from raids, you would still find many of the pvp guilds completely kitted out quickly, because you could youtube and understand the raid mechanics in minutes, then it's as simple as "stand here", "press that", win...

 

Fighting and healing in a WZ is much more difficult than doing operations or other hard pve content since everything is so fluid, so I would expect pvp'ers to be able to understand and clear static pve content much easier than pve'ers walking into ranked wzs and understanding the dynamics and doing well.

 

If crafting was #1, I would love it....

Let pvp coms be used for components that offer special crafting recipes, special materials, pvp enhancements, shells, when creating pvp armor,

let raid coms be used for components that offer special crafting recipes, special materials, pve enhancements, shells, when creating pve armor.

 

Let the base crafted armor be useable in both areas as a starting point.

Some crafted enhancements for pvp offer bonus to damage against players, vs pve enhancements bonus against monsters...

Crafting gets a bonus,

[Heal-To-Full]

I have a question: What's the point of having Expertise stats?

There is no point.

It's a legacy feature carried over from WoW, then from SWTOR's pre-bolster era.

 

PvP could just as easily run without Exp, with Bolster bringing all gear to the same level, so that no one would get an advantage. Of course it would make PvE gearing a little easier... but then you can slack for PvE just as well by only doing easy auto-reward quests.

 

 

On the other hand, if the best pvp gear came from raids, you would still find many of the pvp guilds completely kitted out quickly, because you could youtube and understand the raid mechanics in minutes, then it's as simple as "stand here", "press that", win...

Clear a Nightmare TFB with "youtube" "stand here" "press that" and upload it.

 

Fighting and healing in a WZ is much more difficult than doing operations or other hard pve content since everything is so fluid, so I would expect pvp'ers to be able to understand and clear static pve content much easier than pve'ers walking into ranked wzs and understanding the dynamics and doing well.

PvP is highly mistake-tolerant, because your opponents make mistakes of their own.

You win by making fewer mistakes than your opponents, which you achieve by better play or by goading them into making mistakes.

 

You have to do 98% of your maximum possible DPS or HPS in progressive raids.

You don't have to do 98% of your maximum possible DPS or HPS to win in a warzone. All you need is for the other team to be worse than yours.

 

These are very different games, but don't just assume one is easier than the other. PvP requires fast reaction, but you don't have to respond perfectly, just make the right overall move... or not. PvE is static, but there's literally no margin of error.

[cycao]

You need seperate gear with expertise because pve gear has significantly higher base stats than pvp. You might ask, why not just give pvp gear the same stats as pve gear. The reasoning for this is simple

 

• in pvp you don't have to win all the time to progress to better gear you get coms after every wz.
  
• in pve you have to make progression/get a raid on farm to get the gear. You need to get 8 people together for ops then clear the content, this takes significantly more organisation just solo qing lots of wzs for the coms (You don't even have to win to get coms)
  
• You need to get a basic idea of the mechanics on each boss before attempting the highest difficulty raids, hence why you do story modes then into hard modes then into nightmare modes. When gearing up through these you learn about the mechanics.
  
• If you could get the best pve gear via pvp, you'd have loads of people running around in BIS gear which technically could do nightmare content but they'd have no idea since they haven't even done story mode/hard mode.
  
• PVE players will complain so much about all of the above.
  

 

Pretty much this. Anyways with Bolster expertise has been trivialized.

[wildcoast]

Clear a Nightmare TFB with "youtube" "stand here" "press that" and upload it.

 

 

A pug clearing the last boss of tfb.. There you go...

[Zoom_VI]

 

A pug clearing the last boss of tfb.. There you go...

 

Wow that's pre-2.0, on HM

Also all the members of that pug obviously knew what they doing. They made several mistakes that would of wiped the entire raid if they where in nightmare. Like when one of them pulled the mini add that spawns between tentacles, that would of been a instant death in NiM

 

Look I primarily PVP, but I also have been into the current nightmare raids, NiM if anything is harder, because there is no margin for error period. And anyway most of the hardcore pvper I see even if they where tricked out in 72s probably couldn't pull the dps required for mightmare

[sithBracer]

 

A pug clearing the last boss of tfb.. There you go...

 

So what if it's a pug? They used voice and for all you know could have all been seasoned veterans at it. When I pug I sometimes get better players than in my guild-not often but sometimes.

 

Also that's just the last boss, TFB is not that hard of a boss, the main thing is to kill the tentacles on time to avoid the enrage timer going off any sooner than expected. Other than that it's not that much harder than sm. The hardest ones are dread guard and operator IX and for all you know, one or more of those people could have done it with his guild.

 

And fyi, I see some of the best PvP guilds on servers not even be able to get past Zorn and Toth on hm (in fully min/maxed conqueror gear even). I even played with some PvP heroes and honestly they were some of the worst PvEers I ever had the displeasure of playing with.

[curtkram]

i would prefer to see a single set of gear, with top tier armor/mods obtainable more or less equally between pvp, or pve, or a combination of both.

 

it sounds to me this started with pvp'ers wanting the pve crowd more or less excluded from their content until they've run through the grind to learn pvp. pvp is definitely a different skillset and playstyle, so that's sort of understandable. what i see as the problem there is that a lot of pvp players just suck, so an insistence on a gear advantage so you can compete even though you suck is just dumb. also, most pugs kind of suck. that's just part of being in a pug, and a lot of times that's because of communication and expectations rather than any individual player actually sucking at their class. so whether it's someone who has run 100 warzone or 4 warszones, you still get people who suck and having separate gear isn't going to make a difference. valor and titles would remain as a way to set people who play a lot apart from those who don't, but it would jut be a visual indicator instead of a gear advantage. having valor of 100 or 65 gear was never really a sign that someone is a decent player.

 

also, there will be ranked pvp queues separate from unranked. someone who is primarily a pve player should have the good sense to stay out of ranked if they don't have the skillset to compete at that level.

[Brunner_Venda]

Too bad bolster makes pve gear around the same as pvp gear. (Not a anti-bolster post, just a fact)

 

Actually it doesn't, they don't bolster to full 2018 expertise, which means they take an assload more damage.

 

Thus, PVE heroes die in two 15k-16K smashes, and I know you maras love doing it.

[Heal-To-Full]

Actually it doesn't, they don't bolster to full 2018 expertise, which means they take an assload more damage.

They do if it's level 50 gear.

 

No, awesome Kell Dragons are not awesome in PvP. It's a penalty for doing well in PvE.

[HexDecimalUK]

I have a question: What's the point of having Expertise stats? Why do we need different gear for PvP and PvE? Can't we just lose Expertise and make it so everyone can use all gear for anything and only the base stats count towards having better gear?

 

Is it really not obvious to you? BALANCE!. Expertise is bioware's chosen method of enforcing what gear or specifically mods you are allowed to use in PVP to prevent PVE heros from dominating the game. While bolster exists to add an extra layer of gear balance to keep everyone even against each other. So, in PVE you always have something to shoot for but no matter how highly you gear yourself you will never out-perform a PVP'er wearing a pvp set 1vs1 . So, as a PVE player you have an advantage against the environment while a PVP player will have the advantage against players.

 

Now heres why its a one way trade off, for the above reasons PVE gear cant PVP without bolster but PVP gear can PVE, this is because just like PVE'ers PVPers are still playing the game and deserve the same rewards but when it comes to warzones and other PVP ops bolster allows the PVE gear to be as good in PVP as PVP gear is in PVE.

 

So thats your answer, pvp balance enforcement that does not undermine overall player advancement.

[cashogy_reborn]

Or we could go to a crafting based gear system where the rewards from PvP and PvE are unique item skins/aesthetic only.

 

No one likes this idea?

[demystified]

No one likes this idea?

 

It is not that no one likes it but you need to look at this as a company that is trying to make money instead of creating a good game. No one is going to play a MMO that doesn't have a carrot these days.

 

A company pays 10+ employees 60k a year each to create PvE content every 3 months. We have expertise so that you do not get your gear in pvp if you are a raider. Bioware wants you to go get your pve gear through raiding. If we put gear into crafting, no one will go through the dungeons and pve content. Bioware pays people to create those.

 

 

In short, that idea is very naive.

Edited September 6, 2013 by demystified

[Zoom_VI]

No one likes this idea?

 

No, I hate anything resembling economics. F the gtn too

[Jarfunkz]

Or we could go to a crafting based gear system where the rewards from PvP and PvE are unique item skins/aesthetic only.

 

swg is gone and it isn't coming back

[MrGoldsilver]

Actually it doesn't, they don't bolster to full 2018 expertise, which means they take an assload more damage.

 

Thus, PVE heroes die in two 15k-16K smashes, and I know you maras love doing it.

 

Your correct, pvp gear is better, but I just find it weird that they created expertise, made it real powerful, but then created bolster that negated a large portion of it.

 

(For the record I play a eng. sniper, not a Mara)