How do you kill a scoundrel?

[L-RANDLE]

You honestly believe healers would not be targeted if healing was weaker. Either you are lying through your teeth, or you are really really living in a dream world.

 

The reason why healers are so hard to kill in 1 v 1 situations is because they escape. Anyone who can't kill a face tanking healer is either really bad, or the healer is just really good at duels (or both).

 

The one who escapes always has the advantage over the chaser as he is acting while the chaser is reacting. the escaper is the one setting the pace and running the show, this is not limited to healers, just healers are able to self heal while doing it, while ranged dps could sometimes throw out a powerful attack while running (something healers can't do).

 

Healers are not able to do much damage, they can't soak up damage, and now you don't even want them to be able to escape a fight when 1 person attacks them? Maybe you just want them to stand still and smile while you kill them in 2 gcds?

 

Give me a setting what is your example of a perfect healer?

 

Here's what I think you want: the healer stands there, heals 1 or 2 guys for less than half of what dps does to them, then you (the big hero) kills the healer in 3 gcds, because ... well in your world thats how it should be, and then you smile thinking you actually accomplished something, when you in reality you did nothing remotely challenging.

 

If I'm wrong, please tell me the most fair scenario you can think of.

 

I have said on multiple occasions that this should not even be a discussion, especially in objective based PvP, that healers can be "close" to out healing DPS, regardless of a scenario. Doesn't matter if they are healing themselves or someone else, or speading it out evenly, their output is higher than most DPS classes output.

 

Fair is making a tank a requirement for healers to be effective, when in Live, this is not the case. Do you really need guard to be effective. No, it makes healing EZMODE. While tanking has improved, it is still more feasible to bring a 2nd/3rd healer versus a tank in 8v8.

 

The problem is you think healers should be able to survive multiple enemies because you are banged all the time... The answer is that you are banged because you teammates allow you to be banged, and everyone knows that if healers are left unchecked, you might as well afk.

[L-RANDLE]

Oh and if this complaint is in regards to fighting a solo scouperative, please learn to play :-p any dps should be able to 1v1 kill them, though not always quickly.

 

I would love to see a DPS Sage beat an OP healer in a duel that last less than a minute. Because in instanced PvP that is about where it needs to be.

 

We all know that's impossible for this DPS spec, let alone if they could actually do it in any timeframe..

 

Any DPS? LoL...

Edited September 3, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[Cretinus]

Take 3-4 smashers and you can easily kill an op/scoundrel healer. Unless he's being guarded by his guardian tank, then his 3-4 smashers will kill your scouperative healer first. Unless your scouperative is being guarded by his own warri tank, then nobody will die. Unless one of both teams has a player weakening his own team by playing a specc other than scouperative healer or warri/knight, cause then this team will lose big time. Edited September 3, 2013 by Cretinus

[sithBracer]

I have said on multiple occasions that this should not even be a discussion, especially in objective based PvP, that healers can be "close" to out healing DPS, regardless of a scenario. Doesn't matter if they are healing themselves or someone else, or speading it out evenly, their output is higher than most DPS classes output.

 

Fair is making a tank a requirement for healers to be effective, when in Live, this is not the case. Do you really need guard to be effective. No, it makes healing EZMODE. While tanking has improved, it is still more feasible to bring a 2nd/3rd healer versus a tank in 8v8.

 

The problem is you think healers should be able to survive multiple enemies because you are banged all the time... The answer is that you are banged because you teammates allow you to be banged, and everyone knows that if healers are left unchecked, you might as well afk.

 

 

If you still think that a op healers measly little 4300 per tick (only when someone is under 30%) is outhealing all the different bursts a dps has simply because of that stupid chart that appears at the end of the match, then any conversation with you is pointless. I have on many occasions brought you numbers, examples, attack names, defensive measures, and yet you still cling onto the your idea that op healers can outheal dps with that measly little 4300 per tick. You bring nothing to the table other than a chart. When I show you information behind the numbers you ignore it and still cling to your fantasy. You obviously never played with a healer and you definitely never played with one against a good team. Have a good day.

Edited September 3, 2013 by sithBracer

[theSCARAYone]

You don't need to kill him. You just need to stop him healing others. Which by the sounds of things you did. You were on him all warzone and he ran all over the place? Just how much help was he to his team?

 

You don't need to kill healers, just their output.

 

There's a problem with the underlined part. You can't really do much in terms of shutting down scoundrel/op healers with interrupts. Most of their heals are instant and their biggest heal is instant. A guarded scoundrel/op healer is unkillable unless your whole team is on them.

[sithBracer]

There's a problem with the underlined part. You can't really do much in terms of shutting down scoundrel/op healers with interrupts. Most of their heals are instant and their biggest heal is instant. A guarded scoundrel/op healer is unkillable unless your whole team is on them.

 

Please give me the name of this "biggest" instant heal so I can start using it. Is it wz medpack?

Edited September 3, 2013 by sithBracer

[L-RANDLE]

If you still think that a op healers measly little 4300 per tick (only when someone is under 30%) is outhealing all the different bursts a dps has simply because of that stupid chart that appears at the end of the match, then any conversation with you is pointless. I have on many occasions brought you numbers, examples, attack names, defensive measures, and yet you still cling onto the your idea that op healers can outheal dps with that measly little 4300 per tick. You bring nothing to the table other than a chart. When I show you information behind the numbers you ignore it and still cling to your fantasy. You obviously never played with a healer and you definitely never played with one against a good team. Have a good day.

You are I fantasyland broham.. You also ignore taunts, resolve, and class based immunity. CC is meant for healers yet healers have CC abilities better than some DPS classes?

 

Sure buddy, I mean in damn near two years of playing 8 toons, I have never ran across good player. Let alone leet ones?

 

Cool story bro, but the dont nerf me bro sentiments is cute...

[ErikGW]

DPS sorc can't kill an op healer? Seriously?

 

Lightning sorc has some awesome spikes, and will certainly not die in a 1v1 vs a healer, and won't run out of power. Pure lightning doesnt get enough dot to counter the hot of the healer, but the guaranteed crit on thundering blast and huge polarity shift buff gives great spiking.

 

Madness sorc has great dots but will run out of power before a good healer dies. Madness lacks on spiking to seal the deal too.

 

A hybrid lightning/madness sorc is the most viable dps sorc build right now and that is easy because you get the most dots, the force lightning spam, and 70% of the lightning spikeage with all the sustainability of the lightning build (unlimited force). With the hybrid build you are designed to negate hots and still spike in prolonged fights.

 

Your dots counter their hots, their instant heal can't keep up with your spikes, if they try to cast you have overload to swap with your interrupt. They have little choice but to use evade to cleanse and disappear, and they can only do that once.

 

Try it some time, it works.

[sithBracer]

You are I fantasyland broham.. You also ignore taunts, resolve, and class based immunity.

 

So I can taunt in a 1 v 1? Thanks I'll try that. I'll hit my imaginary taunt button and everything will be ok. If you are talking about a tank taunting for me, that's not a 1 v 1 is it?

 

Resolve is next to useless for an op, because by the time it fills the op is usually safe or dead.

 

What class based immunity are you talking about exactly? Keeping distance from melee? Now I think you are just raging for the sake of raging.

 

CC is meant for healers yet healers have CC abilities better than some DPS classes?

 

I am going to assume you meant CC is not meant for healers otherwise your statement makes no sense. Why is it not meant for healers btw? because you said so?

 

Sure buddy, I mean in damn near two years of playing 8 toons, I have never ran across good player. Let alone leet ones?

 

And in those 2 years you still can't count how much damage 1 attack does vs how much damage healing 1 (or 2) heals do. It's not complex differential equations, it's simple plus and minus.

 

Cool story bro, but the dont nerf me bro sentiments is cute...

 

I actually have recommended a few small nerfs (make energy a little harder to manage, put a 3 second CD on roll) to the op class and buffs to the other healing classes. You have done nothing but QQ.

[ErikGW]

So I can taunt in a 1 v 1? Thanks I'll try that. I'll hit my imaginary taunt button and everything will be ok. If you are talking about a tank taunting for me, that's not a 1 v 1 is it?

 

Resolve is next to useless for an op, because by the time it fills the op is usually safe or dead.

 

What class based immunity are you talking about exactly? Keeping distance from melee? Now I think you are just raging for the sake of raging.

 

 

I am going to assume you meant CC is not meant for healers otherwise your statement makes no sense. Why is it not meant for healers btw? because you said so?

 

 

 

And in those 2 years you still can't count how much damage 1 attack does vs how much damage healing 1 (or 2) heals do. It's not complex differential equations, it's simple plus and minus.

 

 

 

I actually have recommended a few small nerfs (make energy a little harder to manage, put a 3 second CD on roll) to the op class and buffs to the other healing classes. You have done nothing but QQ.

 

I dont think we should expend more energy on L-RANDLE since he has now revealed himself to either being a trolling qq monster or a really bad madness sorc that doesnt understand the inflated damage he does on the scoreboards doesnt equate to actually killing people.

[L-RANDLE]

So I can taunt in a 1 v 1? Thanks I'll try that. I'll hit my imaginary taunt button and everything will be ok. If you are talking about a tank taunting for me, that's not a 1 v 1 is it?

 

Resolve is next to useless for an op, because by the time it fills the op is usually safe or dead.

 

What class based immunity are you talking about exactly? Keeping distance from melee? Now I think you are just raging for the sake of raging.

 

 

 

I am going to assume you meant CC is not meant for healers otherwise your statement makes no sense. Why is it not meant for healers btw? because you said so?

 

 

 

And in those 2 years you still can't count how much damage 1 attack does vs how much damage healing 1 (or 2) heals do. It's not complex differential equations, it's simple plus and minus.

 

 

 

I actually have recommended a few small nerfs (make energy a little harder to manage, put a 3 second CD on roll) to the op class and buffs to the other healing classes. You have done nothing but QQ.

LOL you must not understand MMOs at all. The point of CC is to counter healing. It is giving DPS time to do damge while zero self-heals can happen in order to facilitate objectives at a reasonable rate. Whole point of taunts is to counter DPS. Yet.....

 

DPS has taunts, healers have CC, and resolve is a soft counter to CC?

 

Do you not understand why this is a problem?

 

From the start this game has had frakked up mechanics for given roles. It was only exacerbated by the ninja buffs healing got at 2.0. Like I said its stupid to even argue about this when, global for global, healing should be nowhere near DPS in objective based PvP..

 

4300 ticks.. lol name me all the instant attack with no CD that can counter that...

 

Ill wait...

[L-RANDLE]

I dont think we should expend more energy on L-RANDLE since he has now revealed himself to either being a trolling qq monster or a really bad madness sorc that doesnt understand the inflated damage he does on the scoreboards doesnt equate to actually killing people.

 

Which is exactly the point..... I can put up all kind of gay fluff numbers on my sage., but when it comes down to it.. there is zero way to down even a decent one with this DPS SPEC. You are lying to yourself if you say otherwise...

[Brunner_Venda]

You posted that they could "survive" fire pits not roll through them.

 

And you missed a few things.

 

1. You are not invincible you get still get burned when you roll through them (it's about the ticks really). I find it hit or miss, sometimes I roll through sometimes I get burned.

 

2. You can't do it if you are slowed or are carrying the ball as you can only roll 6 m with the ball (my sorc can easily run through while slowed with the ball and take minimal damage).

 

3. 25 energy is not minimal cost if the op was actually doing his job during the match.

 

4. you want to complain about something in huttball complain about the jugg. Force charge can get you to any platform your enemy is, intercede can take you to any platform your allies are (both can be used with the ball and both can get you through fire), combine that with resolve and all the CDs he has and you have to either have the entire team attack him, or he/his team needs to really suck to keep him from scoring.

 

Rolling through is exactly what I meant. Nobody sits in flame pits for fun. The fact is you can completely ignore all of them, and it's a huge strategic advantage.

 

1. With your hots running, the ticks don't really do much to you do they?

 

2. Are there any slows that you can't purge? I'm not aware of any.

 

3. With no CD, you can roll a lot. Back to back.

 

4. Juggs and PT tanks can still be killed by one or two DPS tops. Their CC and damage mitigation abilities are on long enough cooldowns.

[Domatron]

Ops need their energy management to not be so easy.

I think sorc healers are the most balanced healing class atm. If left free casting they can keep everyone alive, with a tank they are a tough kill, and left without support against multiple enemies they melt.

In a 1v1 a good sorc healer can stay alive for quite some time but with enough pressure he will eventually exhaust his resources and will die to a good dps, if help doesn't arrive.

 

Ops just have far more survivability than the other healers (laughably more), and a virtually infinite resource pool (2 resource pools actually).

 

In my opinion they need to lose the T/A grants on hot ticks and make them cast to get T/As, then interrupts will actually have an effect on their healing output.

[Carter_Mathis]

4300 ticks.. lol name me all the instant attack with no CD that can counter that...

 

Ill wait...

 

Maul! Also Massacre crits! I'm not exactly sure what an Assault spec Ion Pulse crits for, but possibly that.

[NoTomorrow]

DPS sorc can't kill an op healer? Seriously?

 

Lightning sorc has some awesome spikes, and will certainly not die in a 1v1 vs a healer, and won't run out of power. Pure lightning doesnt get enough dot to counter the hot of the healer, but the guaranteed crit on thundering blast and huge polarity shift buff gives great spiking.

 

Madness sorc has great dots but will run out of power before a good healer dies. Madness lacks on spiking to seal the deal too.

 

A hybrid lightning/madness sorc is the most viable dps sorc build right now and that is easy because you get the most dots, the force lightning spam, and 70% of the lightning spikeage with all the sustainability of the lightning build (unlimited force). With the hybrid build you are designed to negate hots and still spike in prolonged fights.

 

Your dots counter their hots, their instant heal can't keep up with your spikes, if they try to cast you have overload to swap with your interrupt. They have little choice but to use evade to cleanse and disappear, and they can only do that once.

 

Try it some time, it works.

 

Are you implying that Operative players are some bads that just sit there in front of sorcs and wait for them to hard cast the thundering blast on them, or sniper ambushes? Who are you trying to fool here? Outside of electronet, there is nothing that the 5 Ranged DPS specs (arsenal, pyrotech, lightning, madness, marksmanship, engineering, lethality) can use to realiably thereten an operative healer.

 

You will never kill a roll-happy, pillar LoSing operative healer with any of the castable ranged/tech damage abilities alone. He will interrupt your casts by LoSing you over and over again. Effortlessly. And if you will try to chase him as a ranged DPS, you will be melted by his friends arround the corner.

 

What we really need, is either well defined weakness for operative healers, either by making them susceptible to roots (nerf toxic scan CD to 30s instead of 5s), or just make any Melee DPS specs a guaranteed hard counter, so that they really need the help of their team mates when melee is onto them, because ranged DPS will never 1vs1 good operative healers. Their melee stun is on a freaking 30s CD usually. Do I need to tell you how much I can heal during those 4s? Operative healers don't deserve to be so good against both types of DPS at the same time.

 

A class that has no problem combat stealthing when crap hits the fan, shouldn't be so good at kiting while it is visible. Snares and roots should be the counter to operatives. Toxin scan should be 30s CD, Evasion base CD should be 1:30s. No more idiotic, haha, I can just cleanse your physical DoTs Anni maras, or i can remove your legshot roots at whim.

 

Moving so easily out of line of sight against Ranged DPS and kiting so easily melee DPS, this is overpowered. Even tanks don't have this against the entire DPS spectrum. There is always that lethality sniper that will just melt the tank 1vs1.

Edited September 3, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[ErikGW]

Ops need their energy management to not be so easy.

I think sorc healers are the most balanced healing class atm. If left free casting they can keep everyone alive, with a tank they are a tough kill, and left without support against multiple enemies they melt.

In a 1v1 a good sorc healer can stay alive for quite some time but with enough pressure he will eventually exhaust his resources and will die to a good dps, if help doesn't arrive.

 

Ops just have far more survivability than the other healers (laughably more), and a virtually infinite resource pool (2 resource pools actually).

 

In my opinion they need to lose the T/A grants on hot ticks and make them cast to get T/As, then interrupts will actually have an effect on their healing output.

 

Do you play operative?

 

The TA ticks on hots arent as relevant as the TA refund on surgical probe.

 

Removing TA ticks on hots might make then cast more often while healing allies, but on healing themselves when they are close to dead, they will be exactly the same as they are now.

 

So your suggested change might remove the surgical probe spam on people above 30% health, but wouldnt address the excessive survival ability at all.

 

I dont necessarily object to your suggestion though. It would make them slightly more vulnrrable

[sithBracer]

Rolling through is exactly what I meant. Nobody sits in flame pits for fun. The fact is you can completely ignore all of them, and it's a huge strategic advantage.

 

1. With your hots running, the ticks don't really do much to you do they?

 

2. Are there any slows that you can't purge? I'm not aware of any.

 

3. With no CD, you can roll a lot. Back to back.

 

4. Juggs and PT tanks can still be killed by one or two DPS tops. Their CC and damage mitigation abilities are on long enough cooldowns.

 

This post is so stupid, it hurts my head. Your entire complaint is about a single op-without the ball-rolling through fire, like it's a game changer or something. First it's something many classes can do (some while carrying the ball even). Second, it's stupid, and only useful in a very situational setting. The only one I can think of, is rolling ahead of your friend who has the ball and wait for a pass, which 99% of the time does not even need to happen or doesn't happen because your friend will be stunned/mezzed/dead and you might not even notice it because you were dumb enough to go across the fire instead of staying and helping him.

 

1. you mean the 1300 per tick HoTs? You do how much fire takes per tick right?

 

2. so you think I should use an evasion just so I could roll through fire like a moron, instead of, oh I don't know save it to get the hell away from 4 guys trying to kill me by stealthing out. Also evasion will do nothing if you are holding the ball.

 

3. Yeah, sure lets just waste all my energy so I can roll through fire back to back. I won't be able to heal anyone, I wont be able to heal myself from the fire pit ticks (oh wait my previous 1300 per tick HoTs will save me), but at least I can say I rolled through 4 fires. Back to back.

 

4. you clearly have not played against a jugg tank before, because if you have you would know that they are usually the highest scorers because of their leaps and defensive CDs. Maybe a jugg with 1200 expertise might fall to 2 dps [tops] but one with decent gear will almost always make it very close to the other side if he jumps in the pit-to either pass or leap to the goal.

[sithBracer]

Are you implying that Operative players are some bads that just sit there in front of sorcs and wait for them to hard cast the thundering blast on them, or sniper ambushes? Who are you trying to fool here? Outside of electronet, there is nothing that the 5 Ranged DPS specs (arsenal, pyrotech, lightning, madness, marksmanship, engineering, lethality) can use to realiably thereten an operative healer.

 

You will never kill a roll-happy, pillar LoSing operative healer with any of the castable ranged/tech damage abilities alone. He will interrupt your casts by LoSing you over and over again. Effortlessly. And if you will try to chase him as a ranged DPS, you will be melted by his friends arround the corner.

 

What we really need, is either well defined weakness for operative healers, either by making them susceptible to roots (nerf toxic scan CD to 30s instead of 5s), or just make any Melee DPS specs a guaranteed hard counter, so that they really need the help of their team mates when melee is onto them, because ranged DPS will never 1vs1 good operative healers. Their melee stun is on a freaking 30s CD usually. Do I need to tell you how much I can heal during those 4s? Operative healers don't deserve to be so good against both types of DPS at the same time.

 

A class that has no problem combat stealthing when crap hits the fan, shouldn't be so good at kiting while it is visible. Snares and roots should be the counter to operatives. Toxin scan should be 30s CD, Evasion base CD should be 1:30s. No more idiotic, haha, I can just cleanse your physical DoTs Anni maras, or i can remove your legshot roots at whim.

 

Moving so easily out of line of sight against Ranged DPS and kiting so easily melee DPS, this is overpowered. Even tanks don't have this against the entire DPS spectrum. There is always that lethality sniper that will just melt the tank 1vs1.

 

30s CD for a cleansing ability that cleanses only 4 DoTs when we can have more than twice that put on us in 1 second?

 

Dude, you really need to stop focusing on the kill and on actually winning the match. This is the problem with so many dps, to them the kill seems to be the only thing that matters. When I dps on my sorc I don't care about having the highest score. If I can harass the healer into not healing and running, then to me he's as good as dead. I don't care whether he spends 10 seconds in the penalty box or 8 seconds LoSing behind a pillar to get his hp and energy back, that is 8-10 seconds that he isn't healing and that is 8-10 seconds I can use to kill dps in the middle. That first of all.

 

Second, if he runs behind a pillar I can't get to then chances are he's too far to heal anyone or he will get picked up by someone else from my team. It's always one or the other, I never ever saw a situation that was different from the two I described.

 

Third, you are constantly raging about the op healer, but the sorc healer can do everything you rage about and more. A sorc healer, can LoS from you, a sorc healer can cleanse (either with its cleanse ability or with force speed), and guess what, its also effortless.

 

Post a video of the op healer who keeps giving you trouble. I really want to see this "god" you keep raging about.

[Zarthorn]

Try playing a Scoundrel outside the healing role (I still play a Scrapper Scoundrel, hard to shift away from something that is just a ton of fun to play) ...yup now you realise that's why Scoundrel healing is good...because our two damage trees are utterly sub-par compared to everyone else.

 

Sawbones really is the only spec you can play if you are serious about PvP, take that away, you have a fun class that you'll never ever see because it'll be taking the very last lifeline away from Scoundrel players.

[dego-harmonium]

You don't need to kill him. You just need to stop him healing others. Which by the sounds of things you did. You were on him all warzone and he ran all over the place? Just how much help was he to his team?

 

You don't need to kill healers, just their output.

 

 

^^^^^^

This

 

<--op healer

 

Eventually my team dies, then I die, most good healers are hard to drop down on your own. Also the ops/scounds tend to attract less casuals than sages and sorcs (IMO). Sorcs are just to easy to kill they should LoS and heal to full more

 

To be fair why should a dps be able to solo any competent healer i generally cant kill them solo why should they be able to kill me?

against a *good* mdps after my FB/hard stun are down and vanish, im toast.

 

Cleanse cooldown cannot be changes because of PVE thats out of the question. I would be fine if they changed evasion a bit and added a cooldown to roll, but for the most part we generally only use one or two rolls, 25 energy is big hit if your not at full

 

If sorcs get the much needed love, i think they will be much more viable for rateds. If healers are really easy to kill no one will play them anymore, im not sitting in the dead box an entire match and I would imagine other healers would feel the same so if you enjoy sitting in the deadbox more, by all means nerf healers in pvp, no one will play them anymore

Edited September 3, 2013 by dego-harmonium

[NoTomorrow]

Dude, you really need to stop focusing on the kill and on actually winning the match. This is the problem with so many dps, to them the kill seems to be the only thing that matters.

 

No, it's you that need to stop BS the entire forums with this typical lie about healers being balanced even if they don't die. A healer needs to die, or otherwise no PvP objective is ever going to be capped in his vicinity

 

Things actually need to DIE if your are expecting to progress further in a warzone. Otherise the PvP is all about who is sitting on defense and waiting for the time to run out. Sounds familiar? yeah yeah, Novarre coast 30minutes matches? Does it ring any bells? Civil war middle fight stalemate with the win being decided by who caps their sidenote first? You like playing this sort of crap, do you? Do you enjoy healing in these games yeah? So this is what you call is fun?

Edited September 3, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[Evolixe]

No, it's you that need to stop BS the entire forums with this typical lie about healers being balanced even if they don't die. A healer needs to die, or otherwise no PvP objective is ever going to be capped in his vicinity

 

Things actually need to DIE if your are expecting to progress further in a warzone.

 

But he doesn't have to die first. A healer is much easier to kill without support from others. Hence.

 

Sitting on the healer 24/7 is not a good thing fyi, and going for them as killtarget is far from always optimal.

[sithBracer]

No, it's you that need to stop BS the entire forums with this typical lie about healers being balanced even if they don't die. A healer needs to die, or otherwise no PvP objective is ever going to be capped in his vicinity

 

Things actually need to DIE if your are expecting to progress further in a warzone.

 

news flash, things do die in wz, including healers . If an op healer was all that was necessary to prevent people from dying no one would ever get an objective done.

 

Just because you can't kill a healer 1 v 1 in a few GCDs, doesn't mean they are unbalanced. It means you need to start learning how to play with your team. It means you need to start learning how to mark healers. It means you need to start learning how to save your CCs. In short, you need to L2P in PvP.

[NoTomorrow]

But he doesn't have to die first. A healer is much easier to kill without support from others. Hence.

 

Sitting on the healer 24/7 is not a good thing fyi, and going for them as killtarget is far from always optimal.

 

Are you seriously suggesting taking down the marauder first or the tank before the healer? The classes that have a crapload of defensive CDs to spare? I've seen tanks being healed through huttball fire, do you expect DPS to take down such a tank BEFORE the healer? Do you take the people on this forum for idiots?

 

Hell even I on my sniper can be a real pain in the butt for multiple DPS if I got a healer backing me up.