Why must the ability to heal as a DPS = underwhelming performance as a DPS?

[Delmyr]

Sorc/Sage is fine in PVE. I've personally witnessed a good sorc keep up and beat on some fights a good marauder. PvP is where they need a buff. This goes back tot he whole theory "Do we buff PvP capability for a class and risk a PvE imbalance."

 

If dps were a constant(it's not, balance issues) then all that would be needed to change and balance would be support and defensive abilities which can't be because dps can't be constant so it is always going to be a tug of war

[Acrimonus]

I can't believe that post stating that the dps of hybrids is lesser because they can heal to full actually exists and someone actually not only thought up that... intelligent comment... but green lighted it to be posted on the forums as well.

 

If you are healing yourself in a raid as a dps class in any MMO, you should be kicked from the raid solely for pandering to the poor design philosophy of whoever is currently in charge of class balance, not to mention you are hurting your raid.

[noobzor]

I tried really hard to care about the plight of the sorcerer DPS, but then I read this thread and completely lost my sympathy. I just don't see anything here that sounds any different from any similar thread from any MMO that I have played.

 

When it comes down to it, this game is just not built for "serious" PvP or for "serious" raid progression. That's just not the target audience. There are MMO's out there that are built for those things, but this is not it. I see an effort on the part of the developers to try to satisfy some of that, but the players who care about "serious" PvP or "serious" raid progression are in the minority, and the development priorities do not seem to align with what that minority wants.

 

Perhaps it is a problem of expectations. Perhaps some players would be better off playing a different game. I would love to see this game gain in popularity and I hate to see it lose players, but it's not the game for everyone.

[Acrimonus]

I tried really hard to care about the plight of the sorcerer DPS, but then I read this thread and completely lost my sympathy. I just don't see anything here that sounds any different from any similar thread from any MMO that I have played.

 

When it comes down to it, this game is just not built for "serious" PvP or for "serious" raid progression. That's just not the target audience. There are MMO's out there that are built for those things, but this is not it. I see an effort on the part of the developers to try to satisfy some of that, but the players who care about "serious" PvP or "serious" raid progression are in the minority, and the development priorities do not seem to align with what that minority wants.

 

Perhaps it is a problem of expectations. Perhaps some players would be better off playing a different game. I would love to see this game gain in popularity and I hate to see it lose players, but it's not the game for everyone.

 

If it isn't built to actually have people play the game then what is this game about? Jedi/Sith dress-up? What does the majority of the population DO? Drool on their keyboard spinning in circles in fleet? Farm relentlessly for things they have no need for?

[Delmyr]

I can't believe that post stating that the dps of hybrids is lesser because they can heal to full actually exists and someone actually not only thought up that... intelligent comment... but green lighted it to be posted on the forums as well.

 

If you are healing yourself in a raid as a dps class in any MMO, you should be kicked from the raid solely for pandering to the poor design philosophy of whoever is currently in charge of class balance, not to mention you are hurting your raid.

 

Should I quote it again? Bioware has not posted anything with the 3 answers that even hints at heals affecting dps other than stopping dps to heal. They were comparing survivability and the tools there of.

 

To be frank the problem lies in that healing has too much cost (cast time, resource cost, or not strong enough) for the small benefit you may or may not see from healing.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Delmyr

[Ausgelebt]

I don't agree with the idea of the hybrid tax, if that's what's going on here. Especially in a PVE environment, we don't want our dps having to heal during a fight when enrage timers are at stake. There is absolutely no benefit to that. Same in PVP. However, I do think people underestimate the ability to *cough* heal to full. Look through WoW arena forums and see how much QQ there is over dps classes that can heal and the explosion when certain ones didn't get a heal nerf they were proposing.

 

I think that if Bioware buffed Sorc dps and gave them better defensive cooldowns, they would also inevitably nerf their ability to heal while in DPS spec. Would people find that an acceptable trade off?

 

 

Kolto Bomb, sup.

[TalkingDinosaur]

LOL! Just had to hear that one for myself.

 

Inquisitors and Consulars will never be returned to their demi-god release status. The sooner you guys get over that the sooner we can all enjoy a balanced game.

Oh god, I just had awful memories of sages and sorcs pre 1.2. Those were dark times...

Edited August 29, 2013 by TalkingDinosaur

[noobzor]

If it isn't built to actually have people play the game then what is this game about? Jedi/Sith dress-up? What does the majority of the population DO? Drool on their keyboard spinning in circles in fleet? Farm relentlessly for things they have no need for?

 

In a nutshell...yes.

 

Saying "it isn't built to actually have people play" is a very narrow view, though. Serious PvP and serious progression raiding represent a relatively small part of the content in the game...there are a lot of things that qualify as "playing" that do not involve those things. It can be hard for some people to grasp, but a lot of people (perhaps even a majority) do not have any ultimate goal that they are striving for when they play...they don't have any concept of "winning"...they just play. As long as there is something for them to do to pass the time, they are satisfied. I may be wrong, but from my experience, those people represent the majority of players, and those people seem to be the core target audience for this game.

[noobzor]

In a nutshell...yes.

 

Saying "it isn't built to actually have people play" is a very narrow view, though. Serious PvP and serious progression raiding represent a relatively small part of the content in the game...there are a lot of things that qualify as "playing" that do not involve those things. It can be hard for some people to grasp, but a lot of people (perhaps even a majority) do not have any ultimate goal that they are striving for when they play...they don't have any concept of "winning"...they just play. As long as there is something for them to do to pass the time, they are satisfied. I may be wrong, but from my experience, those people represent the majority of players, and those people seem to be the core target audience for this game.

 

Also, I am not saying whether this is right or wrong on the part of the developers, I am just stating what seems like the state of things based on my observations. The dialogue over class balance is good, and it is things the developers need to hear, but it needs to be tempered by reasonable expectations. If the game continually fails to live up to your expectations, it may be worth looking into other options.

[mmjarec]

Why dont they just change the way certain abilities work in pvp vs pve that would be easiest to balance. But makes too much sense

[g_land]

Random boss I ended with Titan 6

 

Only one sage in the top 20 but still that is a skill thing if one can make it so can others right?

 

Top DPS was a scoundrel, so no healer tax can be argued there. I think the "healer tax" or "hybrid tax" is completely the wrong line to take because after looking at all the boss fights scoundrels show up with regularity in the top spots. Sages are also always represented in the top 20. So where is this "healer tax"?

 

 

Commandos.....not a one in the top 50

Shadows.....nope not in the top 50

 

Okay so you say you looked at toparse but randomly selected... did you do 16 or 8 because also matters, smaller numbers do 16 man so there is more "parity." And dont forget 16 has a lot more lag and ability faltering than 8 man so its not surprising that those numbers are lower, particularly anything that requires channeling. Anyways, quick review of Dash'roode:

 

Dash'roode:

8 man; Sage/Sorc 32, Shadow/Assassin 19, Scoundrel/Operative 1, Commando/Mercenary 30, Guardian/Jugg 3

16 man: Sage/Sorc 6 (2959.44), Shadow/Assassin 19 (2737.13), Scoundrel/Operative 11 (2813.76), Commando/Mercenary 26 (2680.87), Guardian/Jugg 5 (3063.31)

Now as to where those 16 man scores put people if they were in the 8 man bracket as a strict transfer of the dps number shown: Sage/Sorc is somewhere between 40 and 41, Shadow/Assassin = not on chart, Scoundrel/Operative = not on chart, Commando/Mercenary = not on chart, Guardian/Jugg is somewhere between 32 and 33.

 

Now as to what everyone is yelling about, when you break it down, people are wondering why there is a "hybrid tax" for both sets (tank/dps and heal/dps) and why if the designers had that in mind is it not actually true when you compare the classes that are capable of either of those options. The reason it is currently in the context of sages/sorcs is because they received their class rep answers and it exploded between bad public relations and a L2P context that should also be transferable to the scoundrel/operative heal/dps but which clearly outclasses that of sorc/sage and merc/commandos. Also, we see a similar issue with the tank/dps "hybrid tax" issue; guardians are phenomenal tanks right now and can still pump out dps in pvp while having a ton of survivability, meanwhile vanguard tanking while not great is good an they can put out a ton of sustained dps but with little burst, lastly assassins have experienced a change in how spikey their incomming damage can be an in terms of dps they have to pull an absolutely prefect rotation/priority order in order to even stay competitive with other classes' dps. The argument is about the INCONSISTENCY WITH WHICH BIOWARE DEVS APPLY THE "HYBRID TAX" CONCEPT.

[Delmyr]

Okay so you say you looked at toparse but randomly selected... did you do 16 or 8 because also matters, smaller numbers do 16 man so there is more "parity." And dont forget 16 has a lot more lag and ability faltering than 8 man so its not surprising that those numbers are lower, particularly anything that requires channeling. Anyways, quick review of Dash'roode:

 

Dash'roode:

8 man; Sage/Sorc 32, Shadow/Assassin 19, Scoundrel/Operative 1, Commando/Mercenary 30, Guardian/Jugg 3

16 man: Sage/Sorc 6 (2959.44), Shadow/Assassin 19 (2737.13), Scoundrel/Operative 11 (2813.76), Commando/Mercenary 26 (2680.87), Guardian/Jugg 5 (3063.31)

Now as to where those 16 man scores put people if they were in the 8 man bracket as a strict transfer of the dps number shown: Sage/Sorc is somewhere between 40 and 41, Shadow/Assassin = not on chart, Scoundrel/Operative = not on chart, Commando/Mercenary = not on chart, Guardian/Jugg is somewhere between 32 and 33.

 

Now as to what everyone is yelling about, when you break it down, people are wondering why there is a "hybrid tax" for both sets (tank/dps and heal/dps) and why if the designers had that in mind is it not actually true when you compare the classes that are capable of either of those options. The reason it is currently in the context of sages/sorcs is because they received their class rep answers and it exploded between bad public relations and a L2P context that should also be transferable to the scoundrel/operative heal/dps but which clearly outclasses that of sorc/sage and merc/commandos. Also, we see a similar issue with the tank/dps "hybrid tax" issue; guardians are phenomenal tanks right now and can still pump out dps in pvp while having a ton of survivability, meanwhile vanguard tanking while not great is good an they can put out a ton of sustained dps but with little burst, lastly assassins have experienced a change in how spikey their incomming damage can be an in terms of dps they have to pull an absolutely prefect rotation/priority order in order to even stay competitive with other classes' dps. The argument is about the INCONSISTENCY WITH WHICH BIOWARE DEVS APPLY THE "HYBRID TAX" CONCEPT.

 

It really just appears to be just balance issues more than a " hybrid tax."

[DarkIntelligence]

Random boss I ended with Titan 6

 

Only one sage in the top 20 but still that is a skill thing if one can make it so can others right?

 

Top DPS was a scoundrel, so no healer tax can be argued there. I think the "healer tax" or "hybrid tax" is completely the wrong line to take because after looking at all the boss fights scoundrels show up with regularity in the top spots. Sages are also always represented in the top 20. So where is this "healer tax"?

 

 

Commandos.....not a one in the top 50

Shadows.....nope not in the top 50

 

The sages who argue they lack competitive DPS might have it wrong, maybe it is a more challenging class to master, that seems to be an argument you can make from the data. But the potential seems to be there.

 

Now commandos and shadows that want to argue they need a buff seem to have an argument. Even guardians who hit the top 20 only infrequently and usually way towards the bottoms of it.

 

 

Should sages be more challenging to master as DPS, well that I might be ok with. It's a flexible class for that flexibility specialization in a field takes more skill but as long as it has a competitive potential are we all ok with that?

 

 

I think it is time we end the falsehood that this is about a healer tax, clearly scoundrels destroy that argument, they parse at the very top almost always. This thread really seems to be about sages wanting more DPS, or maybe easier DPS. Be honest look at the data, end the healer tax talk and speak plainly. What is this all really about?

 

First of all I never mentioned a "healer tax" and frankly I don't know why people insist on using that term other than for simplicity's sake, which is fine unless oversimplifying causes a misunderstanding. Your claim that because scoundrels top the DPS chart the problem I talk about in my original post doesn't exist is competed unfounded. In fact many people on this thread have made comments about how the problem is really much bigger than just sorcerer and merely brushes up against the much larger and very real issue of class balance among the various DPS ACs. Yes you are right in that the problem doesn't seem to affect scoundrels but I assure you it affects sorcerers, mercs (though to a lesser extend) and that's just the healing AC not even mentioning virtually every other DPS AC with the notable exeption of snipers and marauders.

 

The underlying and undeniable problem is that there is a grave and unjustified disparity in the DPS among all DPS classes with only three (maras, snipers, and operatives; and their respective mirrors) performing on par with each other and everyone else lagging behind by anywhere between 10% and as far 20%. If you don't see a problem there then you might want to get your eyes checked. In any other MMO such a disparity would be the first thing addressed... Why it hasn't been in this one is entirely beyond me.

[g_land]

It really just appears to be just balance issues more than a " hybrid tax."

 

Yes, that is correct and what I am saying, they did not apply the same balance to similar classes.

[Achyllis]

It's their first MMO and they have been amateur night, beyond the stories,from word go.

 

They don't make WoW money or employee adequate warm bodies to develop on a AAA level.

 

They are fishing for whales with f2p/CM.

 

WoW does EVERYTHING better and their players are also constantly whining.

 

Roll alts or unsub. That's BW's clear message.

[Hockaday]

It's their first MMO and they have been amateur night, beyond the stories,from word go.

 

They don't make WoW money or employee adequate warm bodies to develop on a AAA level.

 

They are fishing for whales with f2p/CM.

 

WoW does EVERYTHING better and their players are also constantly whining.

 

Roll alts or unsub. That's BW's clear message.

 

BW actually does (or has...) been doing class balancing better than WoW. Had a better launch, more content at launch etc etc. That being said, their current class balance is bad with Sins. While Sorc have some pvp issues with CDs...at least they're still proper dps etc. All we can hope is they listen.

[Sargrith]

It was just an 8 man......

[Sargrith]

First of all I never mentioned a "healer tax" and frankly I don't know why people insist on using that term other than for simplicity's sake, which is fine unless oversimplifying causes a misunderstanding. Your claim that because scoundrels top the DPS chart the problem I talk about in my original post doesn't exist is competed unfounded. In fact many people on this thread have made comments about how the problem is really much bigger than just sorcerer and merely brushes up against the much larger and very real issue of class balance among the various DPS ACs. Yes you are right in that the problem doesn't seem to affect scoundrels but I assure you it affects sorcerers, mercs (though to a lesser extend) and that's just the healing AC not even mentioning virtually every other DPS AC with the notable exeption of snipers and marauders.

 

The underlying and undeniable problem is that there is a grave and unjustified disparity in the DPS among all DPS classes with only three (maras, snipers, and operatives; and their respective mirrors) performing on par with each other and everyone else lagging behind by anywhere between 10% and as far 20%. If you don't see a problem there then you might want to get your eyes checked. In any other MMO such a disparity would be the first thing addressed... Why it hasn't been in this one is entirely beyond me.

 

Looking at the numbers your claim it affects commandos less then sages does not fit the numbers. Quite the contrary it hits commandos harder much so, no commando in the top 50, sage shows up in the top 20. That sage was 10% behind, maybe a bit much i could see the argument for a need to be within 5%, but most are saying 10% and he hits that. There is a deniable problem for sages, because there does not appear nor is ones supported by the numbers. Commando have huge issues lower DPS and because I looked they scored as clearly the worst healer. But no one is hurting more then the shadow his DPS isn't within 10% of anyone's and his tanking is dead last too. Guardians are on the edge DPS wise a little low but close to the 10% range, but they are the top tank now, so they have less to worry about. Vangards hit the top range in DPS, vangard dps is very competitive with gs and sents often within 2%, and are solid tanks.

 

For healing the top commando wasn't within 25% of the top healer an operative....that's a very serious issue as well.

 

I agree there are issues but not for sages. Scoundrels might be over performing a bit, top dps and heals, but its a small difference. But commandos and shadows need some help. So yes there are balance issue but not the ones the op was trying to sell nor do they involve sages.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Sargrith

[Dallayna]

You want an answer to "why is it that healer classes always get screwed?"

 

 

Here is my answer.

 

Not as any developer (because I'm not) but as a player of that class throughout every MMO I ever ever tried....

 

It's because you are a healer and, therefore, you are, always have been and always shall be, screwed.

 

Simple as that.

 

 

Look.

 

I''m not a troll or trolling because, the truth of the matter is that Healers are, and always HAVE BEEN my favorites but, the truth is that, healers being screwed has been and always shall be the case. THAT, I think is what BW was trying to convey with their response but, of course, that response being between someone who doesn't love the class trying to explain this to those who haven't been around to other MMO's with that type of class....

 

 

Well.... needless to say> There you go: Recipie for disaster coming right up!

 

The truth is that if you roll "healer" you are a "supporting character" when it comes to being uber-powerful and uber-cool and, it's as simple as that.

 

That being said... There are some MAJOR problems with healers trying to- you know, actually HEAL, that, to make matters worse have been COMPLETELY ignored in all of this but... well... guess that's not as important nor as easy as telling us to "learn how to play" or give a simplistic answer to those problems by telling us- "Hey! You're Healers! Deal!"

 

(Example of something that got ignored as a result?.... Well... why is it that every time that I try to "bubble" someone in the middle of ANY fight, even with all of the "pushback and threat" reductions chosen, I STILL keep becoming the Boss's bestest punching bag?- WTH?"

 

Seriously... This is the case for PvE in my experience so far:

Tank jumps in and engages.

Sorc waits for the seconds needed for him to engage all of them.

Tank stars calling for help on mitigating damage.

Sorc hits bubble (nothing else-just the bubble) and gets swarmed by EVERY BAD GUY ABOUT THE PLACE!!!!

Sorc goes down.

Tank and all other players yell at Sorc for not knowing how to play or do anything worthwhile!

Sorcs try to bring this up to Developers.

Developers tell us to learn how to play because we're able to Heal to Full so, stop QQing already- you worthless POS's!!!!!

 

See the "disconnect" now?

 

Yes! Being a healer is great and wonderful but.. our problem with this particular MMO is that 9 times out of 10 we can't even be around to be a healer without being uber-players! So... what are the NON- "uber-players" supposed to do?....

 

Well... according to most others, just L2P, **** and accept our lot, because, our not being absolutely, beyond par PERFECT- whether we have even ever done something or not, is completely, entirely and utterly OUR FAULT!

 

We should totally apologize and beg forgiveness in the hopes that they let us back in!

[mmjarec]

The reason a disproportionate number of whines come from sorcs is because historically the worst players seek out the easiest classes to hide their fail but when it cant they cry imbalance

[Shadowcaper]

The reason a disproportionate number of whines come from sorcs is because historically the worst players seek out the easiest classes to hide their fail but when it cant they cry imbalance

 

Historically, in every rpg (both single- and multi-player), the 'mage' class (in this case Sage/Sorc) has always been the hardest to master, while the 'warrior' (Knight/Warrior) is easiest because you can just wade into combat and rely on your armour to keep you alive while you hit things. I don't think anyone has ever taken a Sage/Sorc because they expect it to be the easiest class

 

Edit: Indeed, this game actually removes the advantage that mages generally enjoy over other classes, which is their range (as I pointed out in my previous post, any class can easily strike at a Sage/Sorc without having to take the time to run up to them, all the while getting pummelled by spells)

Edited August 30, 2013 by Shadowcaper

[AlrikFassbauer]

Sorc/Sage is fine in PVE. I've personally witnessed a good sorc keep up and beat on some fights a good marauder. PvP is where they need a buff. This goes back tot he whole theory "Do we buff PvP capability for a class and risk a PvE imbalance."

 

Your current signature very well applies to Sorcs & Sages, too.

 

Mmm...

 

The curse of healing and class balance is a very, very old issue. But let's face it, most games follow teh Gary Gigax group template: Warrior/Tank nearly invulnerable but low damage, Mage great DPS but made out of glass, Cleric heal and mediocre in all else, Thief, oh well we need comic relief...

 

In DDO, all group quests REQUIRE a thief because of te traps ! Those can really be dadly there. Any group without a good trapper is a wiped group there.

 

That's uncommon to most MMOs, though. No-one implements really dangerous traps nowadays into games.

 

I agree with all of your points, sorcerers do indeed have incredible AoE potential, I would even go as far as saying lightning sorcerers have the best AoE potential. That being said, however, when it comes to endgame in both PvE and PvP it's all about the single target potential.

 

So - early game = mobs, endgame = single target ?

It would apply to PvP as well, because sooner or later anyone is being single-targeted. And it's usuually the Sorcerors/Sages FIRST, because every knows that they are squishy ...

 

The reason a disproportionate number of whines come from sorcs is because historically the worst players seek out the easiest classes to hide their fail but when it cant they cry imbalance

 

Then why have the numbers of Operatives ans Snipers increased since 2.0 so much ?

 

Historically, in every rpg (both single- and multi-player), the 'mage' class (in this case Sage/Sorc) has always been the hardest to master, while the 'warrior' (Knight/Warrior) is easiest because you can just wade into combat and rely on your armour to keep you alive while you hit things. I don't think anyone has ever taken a Sage/Sorc because they expect it to be the easiest class

 

In DDO, by the way, Fighters are not often chosen as a pure class - simply because they can not heal to full. Literally. They have to rely ENTIRELY on health potions and on healers - they have NO way to gain health at all !

 

Fighters are - combat-wise - an easy to play class - but when I was still active there, I could see quite a lot of moaning and ranting about pure Fighters not being able to heal themselves at all ...

 

Therefore, I never played one there. I always took a class there which was at least rudimentally able to use spell scrolls - healing spell scrolls, especially - or ranged characters.

 

Fighters can also not disarm traps. In most times, they cannot see them at as well. Because they havet to spend their points mostly elsewhere.

 

Fighters in DDO - as far as I perceived them - are unlike the fighting classes here in SWTOR (which is only my second MMORPG) : They are completely relying on others, meanwhile they can do top damage. They are SO reliant on others, that they are - in their pure form - not very often played. Back then, - as far as I can remember (correctt me someone if I'm wrong) - most people who played Fighters did with a few levels of other classes mixed in. Evasion of the Thieves, for example. Evasion is THE most wanted skill of all classes, because it makes Thieves evade traps ! Sometimes even completely ! (If the skill is high enough). But - it is exclusive to Thieves ...

 

Coming from DDO to SWTOR was a kind of "culture shock" fopr me anyway : The character system is SO MUCH REDUCED I just couldn't believe it in the first time. In DDO, EVERY main stat matters ! In SWTOR - only 1, basically. maybe 2.

 

Compared to DDO, SWTOR is just "easymode".

Edited August 30, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[Achyllis]

BW actually does (or has...) been doing class balancing better than WoW. Had a better launch, more content at launch etc etc. That being said, their current class balance is bad with Sins. While Sorc have some pvp issues with CDs...at least they're still proper dps etc. All we can hope is they listen.

 

Given that WoW launched 8 years ago and TOR launched 20 months ago I should hope TOR had a better launch. I agree with you that, generally, Sorcs are fine. DPS Sins and Ops were nerfed drastically and people still play them.

 

Balancing for arenas has to be crazy hard . . .

[captpickles]

Pve is not the measure of a class, class balancing for pve only does not work. but this is the issue.. most players never play pvp so it is not the market target of choice for dev. So while there may be (both perceived and imperceived) issues in pvp you everyone needs to know that .

 

Money is where the content and fixes will go. Since pvp is tertiary to PVE players, story players and then raiders there will be lag, and lack of progress to pvp.

 

when pvp becomes a more serious monetary issue well see fixes. but it will likely unbalance pve. so the solution that i see having the least impact is having not a true class buff, or nerf.. but a minor item that can be granted to specific classes that can only be used in WZ, Arenas etc. that can enhance specific abilities already used by the player. .. pvp worlds though will have to be excluded since they are in reality a pve zone in which player combat can occur.

 

tweaking the classes is not a option as it causes a ripple across the renaming classes.

 

that being said.. unless your using the 'perfect macro' (and awaiting a nice ban), pvp really in its whole form cannot be balanced because meat bags are imperfect, tcp/client transmission is not perfect, and thousands of gear combos make it neigh impossible to ever attain that golden balance.

Edited August 30, 2013 by captpickles

[Spamfritter]

I see no reason why classes with utility such as being able to perform dual rules should be able to DPS as well as a pure DPS class that only does one thing. That being said all DPS specs should be viable for even nightmare content. The gaps in DPS classes shouldn't be as large as they are now.

 

Simply put Snipers / Smugglers / Juggernauts / Guardians / Marauders / Sentinels can continue to DPS while using their cool downs. Their cool downs are about damage reduction primarily, or at least a temporary heal in the case of the Juggernaut / Guardian. Essentially Sages / Sorcs / Mercs / Commandos can't DPS while trying not to die. Other DPS classes can. Plain and simple.

 

Personally I don't think this is as big a deal in PvP as it is in PvE combat. In PvP a good healer can generally out run a DPS's or at the very least it takes a DPS a good while to kill the healer. While the healer is being tied up by the DPS, their teammates should come help them. If they don't it's a failure on the team's part. A healer in equal gear with a high level of skill can be next to impossible to kill but a DPS can tie one up. This is actually good as far as I'm concerned. It makes attacking a healer a great strategy and forces team work in order for success.

 

The problem is few people can PvP worth a damn and don't work together well enough to make that a viable gameplay mechanic in warzones. The state of PvP as it stands is that no one gives a damn about anything other than who has the most DPS in warzones. Rarely is anyone given an MvP vote for anything other than good DPS numbers. Objective points, protection etc. is rarely noticed. So people pay less attention to team work than getting high damage numbers.

 

On the PvE front the current situation is absolutely unacceptable. The enrage timers on the current NiM content do not tolerate huge drops in DPS. So while a Sorc / Merc or whatever is healing to full they aren't DPS'ing. They have no cool downs to speak of to fall back on. So if a Merc or Sorc rips agro all of the sudden they die pretty quickly or they have to choose to stop DPS'ing and heal up. A good Sorc / Sage can put out really solid burst damage and if they ever get agro they practically get one shotted by the boss because they have poor damage mitigation and the inability to hit a cooldown and trust in their healer as Marauders and other classes do.

 

The way I see it the only solution is for BioWare to stop designing NiM content so poorly. What I mean by that is that DPS checks which are as extreme as say NiM Dread Guard are a poor design. Unlike EC NiM which had tough mechanics to master NiM Dread Guards relies more on that DPS check for difficulty than mechanics. Yes it is challenging mechanically, but not like Kephess in NiM EC was.