smellmop Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 wanted to try this for the lolz, but did anyone try an all op/scoundrel group?....spam heals and win when the poison comes?hell you could even stealth for 5 min...mez at 0 seconds, go to mid, drop 4X flyby...done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 wanted to try this for the lolz, but did anyone try an all op/scoundrel group?....spam heals and win when the poison comes? hell you could even stealth for 5 min...mez at 0 seconds, go to mid, drop 4X flyby...done As it stands you would lose to marauder teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
degree Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) wanted to try this for the lolz, but did anyone try an all op/scoundrel group?....spam heals and win when the poison comes? hell you could even stealth for 5 min...mez at 0 seconds, go to mid, drop 4X flyby...done As it stands you would lose to marauder teams. How so? what does the gas cloud tick for? 4 healers couldn't stay up for longer than 6 seconds? Edited August 19, 2013 by degree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 How so? what does the gas cloud tick for? 4 healers couldn't stay up for longer than 6 seconds? Can't heal with Sudden Death in effect and Undying goes through Poison Cloud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 How so? what does the gas cloud tick for? 4 healers couldn't stay up for longer than 6 seconds? Excuse me, I was just assuming people were atleast familiar with the effect. My bad. Anyway's, what Xinika said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterone Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I've been a proponent of a Rage nerf since 1.2, and I even had a fully optimized WH rage mara I stomped around in for six months or so. At 2.0, seeing all the illogical and unnecessary buffs the tree was getting, I left that toon at level 50 and never logged back on it. I've created numerous and very long and detailed threads in the past, both on the PTS forums and the PvP forums, detailing many changes that could have worked in balancing this spec but the threads always devolved into name calling and childlike comments from those people who only played mara and jugg and did not want to see any changes made to their preferred class. It is very hopeful to see so many people in this thread bringing these issues up again and discussing them openly, although we have probably lost many, many subs and quality players over it already. Do something this time around BW, if you don't I just may jump on the bandwagon again, leave my loved sorc and assassin behind and only gear up my op medic and my rage mara with the new tier of PvP gear. When you think about it, why would anyone do anything different, it's masochism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaingSkiratapwns Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 So your suggestion to dealing with a spec that most consider OP is to improve the other two talent trees to be equally as powerful? People aren't complaining about Marauders because they all use the same talent spec, it is because that one spec is pretty damn insanely over balanced. Most classes have 1 viable spec and the majority of them are not even in the same ball park is "smash" marauders. They are all using smash spec because the other two specs aren't that good in pvp. Pay attention and stun/knockback/grenade when they have gore, and you severely hamper carnage spec, and annihilation just isn't that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Maybe if they would upgrade the other two marauder specs you would see less smashing around.. this is absolutely true. however, consider what you're saying in the larger context. if one spec is head and shoulders about *everyone* -- not just the other spec trees in their respective ACs -- then bringing those other spec trees up to par with that one dominant one does nothing for balance amongst classes. sure, there will be more carnage or shien forms, but that's doesn't do diddly squat about the greater issue that warriors/knights seem to enjoy an obvious advantage over every other AC in arenas for that dps role. mind you, I'm not claiming they are OP. I haven't seen enough of them in arenas. However, if we take it as a given that they are op, then boosting the other 3 trees across the AC does nothing for AC/Class diversity. Edited August 20, 2013 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 More like "carnage is a powerful situational spec with clear strengths and weaknesses that requires a chosing a particular coherent playstile to not make it look weak". And smash is just "yolo swag". good grief. it pains me to agree with you...but I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I think pull on all specs would be a little OP. Atleast without having to sacrifice anything for it. And to be completely honest with you.. what do we really need it for? Aside from huttball I really don't see any reason whatsoever. it really is strange how many peel/control abils are baseline for all juggs. I've only played rage (and rarely at that), but I have a leap (closer), a push, and intercede. my deception sin has force speed (closer)...and that's it. my AP/pyro has harpoon (closer), hydrolic overrides (closer/escape). iirc, base dcds for a jugg are also more numerous (reflect, temp %hp increase, dmg reduction shield, enraged def). base dcds for pt are particularly bad (dmg reduction shield, hot). base sin def are good when working properly (shroud, dmg reduction shield, combat stealth, sprint). I'm not exactly sure what the conceived balance in trade was, particularly regarding jugg vs pt, but both use heavy armor, and juggs seem to have significantly better base dcds. PT does have an extra stun that doesn't require channel. anyway, I am curious as to what the tradeoff is supposed to be. I know in pve a PT can "range tank" better. I hope that's not it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 I got an easy fix for this one. Force pull becomes a base skill for assassins (Deception needs it more than tank anyways) and the vacant talent becomes replaced by a talent with an awesome name that decreases the soak dmg from guard by 20%. (number can be higher/lower, was just writing down what seemed to be reasonable at first thought). This is a really great idea. I wasn't so warm to it back when Arena didn't exist, but now something as simple as this would go a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Even though I think it's a bit much, I'm definitely all for trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterboytkd Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 if healers can´t their slot is useless and will be refittet with another maro/sent(due to deff CDs) If healers can heal through 2-3 dps, then what is a 4 man team supposed to do against 2 healers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laforet Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 If healers can heal through 2-3 dps, then what is a 4 man team supposed to do against 2 healers? Overextend dps behind pillars, start to zerg him, healers will need to move up and get in optimal cc range. CC the healers when they have to move, keep pushing the dps behind the pillar. A lot of players dont realise this, especially because arena is so new, but the best way to win arena isnt outdamaging / outhealing the opponent, but outpositioning them. Before you ask, yes i have played against double operative healer comps, yes i have beat them 2-0 all the times. I always LOL when i see double healer comps. They usually dont have the pressure to do nothing but turtle and we always can get a kill on dumb dps, especially if they are melee. Double OP medic with ranged dps was more tricky but theres a secret rule that after 1:30 minute of LoSing snipers get eager and rush in to get melted by double dong cannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) If healers can heal through 2-3 dps, then what is a 4 man team supposed to do against 2 healers? 1 heal + 1 guard > 2 heals + 0 guard. if you don't have 2 dps, then you won't kill anything. I'd laugh at you with my unguarded mando healer, so you cannot dip into dps pool to keep guard and add heals. Edited August 20, 2013 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSpiceSwag Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 overextend dps behind pillars, start to zerg him, healers will need to move up and get in optimal cc range. Cc the healers when they have to move, keep pushing the dps behind the pillar. A lot of players dont realise this, especially because arena is so new, but the best way to win arena isnt outdamaging / outhealing the opponent, but outpositioning them. Before you ask, yes i have played against double operative healer comps, yes i have beat them 2-0 all the times. I always lol when i see double healer comps. They usually dont have the pressure to do nothing but turtle and we always can get a kill on dumb dps, especially if they are melee. Double op medic with ranged dps was more tricky but theres a secret rule that after 1:30 minute of losing snipers get eager and rush in to get melted by double dong cannon. #dongcleave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laforet Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 #dongcleave Dude however i play a **** class i do am the creator of dongcleave, sharing the credits with the DONGZAPPER who executes the dong with perfection. Rerroling merc live so we can try the electro dong cleave if you know what i mean. WILL NEVER EVER PLAY SCOUNDREL SCUM SPEC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chemic_al Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 So overpowered classes are dominating wzs and sucky classes still suck? Gee, if only there hadn't been a million threads on classes that are stupidly overpowered that Bioware took on board and rebalanced them accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackNader Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 if all sins are given pull then they should lose a stun IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 if all sins are given pull then they should lose a stun IMO. Ehm, explain yourself please. Given the fact that we only have 1 stun.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackNader Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) What is to explain? Every person who has ever played a sin should already know the ramifications of giving a pull to all sin specs. All sin vs ranged fights now shifts massively in favor of the sin.All huttball matches are going to be bradley style epic troll fests. The number of Deception sins will explode. Arenas would shift heavily in favor of stealth classes. (Imagine a double pull (50 - 60m tug) and then a 3 man gank fest at the end of it while your team is unable to close the gap in time to save the target.. actually no.. the more I think it through the more I think giving a pull to all sin specs would be retarded. Edited August 20, 2013 by JackNader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 What is to explain? Every person who has ever played a sin should already know the ramifications of giving a pull to all sin specs. All sin vs ranged fights now shifts massively in favor of the sin. Ever heared of cover? All huttball matches are going to be bradley style epic troll fests. They already were. The number of Deception sins will explode. They already have. Arenas would shift heavily in favor of stealth classes. (Imagine a double pull (50 - 60m tug) and then a 3 man gank fest at the end of it while your team is unable to close the gap in time to save the target.. I personally would never take more than 1 deception sin in my arena team even if they had pull. We're strong as one, but grow weaker as numbers rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCourier- Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Deception assassin getting a pull would be ridiculous. Sorcs and mercenaries already sometimes have a difficult time running from an assassin (especially healers). Deception assassins getting a pull would completely kill sorcerer and mercenary healers. Assassins already hit sorcs for around 7500 for a maul crit. Not every medic is an operative. Edited August 20, 2013 by TheCourier- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Deception assassin getting a pull would be ridiculous. Sorcs and mercenaries already sometimes have a difficult time running from an assassin (especially healers). Deception assassins getting a pull would completely kill sorcerer and mercenary healers. Those particular classes and specs need massive buffs anyway. They aren't viable right now and shouldn't base any opinions on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCourier- Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Those particular classes and specs need massive buffs anyway. They aren't viable right now and shouldn't base any opinions on that. Scoundrel DPS is in much, much more massive need of a buff than assassin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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