Treek and SGRA

[Cyberwoman]

So your argument is because you play this game, you should be acknowledged?

 

That flies in the face of business reality.

 

I'd rather EaWare spend time and money on the actual game than some fluff.

 

Not really, I just don't think that minorities should be pushed away like they don't exists. If there are romanceable companions, then why shouldn't there be SGR companions? That is more my argument!

[Solzean]

That's what I mean to underscore. To point out that a minority is a minority is a bit of a red herring when the value of being inclusive of that minority comes in part from the fact that an MMORPG has a 'social media' dimension to it. It's not necessarily about the buying power of the minority itself, which is what he seemed to be arguing, but rather the buying power of the social network in which this minority is embedded.

 

Facebook making billions wasn't some kind of accident.

Yes but you are making a huge assumption that being inclusive somehow makes your game more widely accepted in the world and that it adds a level of desire. I view my gay friends as friends. I honestly dont view them as someone who is a one issue person. They don't suddenly love SWTOR because they can be gay in it. Maybe its just me but I feel like people are really over doing this type of thing in gaming and all facets of the world and in the process are turning their friends into people who care about 1 singular part of their identity.

 

Its more of a mole hill that is made into a mountain. This whole inclusiveness argument is over stated in my opinion. This game is full of different decisions we wish we could make but we can't.

[Lenlo]

That's what I mean to underscore. To point out that a minority is a minority is a bit of a red herring when the value of being inclusive of that minority comes in part from the fact that an MMORPG has a 'social media' dimension to it. It's not necessarily about the buying power of the minority itself, which is what he seemed to be arguing, but rather the buying power of the social network in which this minority is embedded.

 

Facebook making billions wasn't some kind of accident.

 

But then again, Facebook has MILLIONS of users.

 

If brownie points were a currency, I'm sure EaWare would try and rack em up.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Lenlo

[Solzean]

Not really, I just don't think that minorities should be pushed away like they don't exists. If there are romanceable companions, then why shouldn't there be SGR companions? That is more my argument!

 

Are we talking SGR exclusively? Something about making each class have at least one character swinging both ways is a bit excessive to me and does ruin certain ones like Corso.. Just curious how it would be implemented.

[Callaron]

Except that it is different. You don't need to spend a single dime to see yourself represented in this game or to romance a companion, it's all in the F2P option. LGBT players need to get to level 50, buy the expansion, male players need to run on the Empire side and female players on the republic side, to get 1 flirtable NPC. And if all future companions are going to require a CM purchase for a price around 2100CC or over with inflation, then LGBT players will have to shelve out 20 dollars for the xpack, 20 dollars for the companion with F2P (a subscription and 30 dollars for subscribers) to still be in an unbalanced situation. I don't see how this is anything but worse treatment.

 

There are supposedly more SGR flirts coming with the Bounty Hunter event. Either that or the Czerka storylines... possibly both?

Either way, breathe dude - your sexy females will soon be getting more girl on girl action.

[Cyberwoman]

Are we talking SGR exclusively? Something about making each class have at least one character swinging both ways is a bit excessive to me and does ruin certain ones like Corso.. Just curious how it would be implemented.

 

I am actually against changing those characters just for SGR reasons (Although some, such as Kaliyo, could easily be bisexual) I am talking about future companions from expansions/CM who are not restricted by class.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Cyberwoman

[Solzean]

I am actually against changing those characters just for SGR reasons (Although some, such as Kaliyo, could easily be bisexual) I am talking about future companions, such as Treek and HK, who are not restricted by class.

 

Yea, to be honest that would be pretty awesome. I am not exactly the biggest demander of the need for SGR but I certainly would be cool with them adding stuff in the future. I just dont want them changing who a character is for it. I certainly see it as something everyone can enjoy. I just dont see it as a necessity either.

 

To be quite honest I might finally get around to rolling one of my classes as a female. I'm far from homophobic but for me personally, I am attached to my characters and i relate to them in some way, so Id rather not connect myself as kissing another man in the game. I know some with interpret that as homophobic but I am far from that. Its just how I play my games, i get overly attached. ( I realize the irony that Id be playing a girl, but I want to see the voice overs from a female perspective for fun)

Edited August 2, 2013 by Solzean

[Spatology]

I'm over it. Tired of people lording political correctness over each other to dictate action. This thread sucks.

 

To bioware, if you implement this companion, I won't spend money on it. Unlike HK and Treek.

[Laiov]

Yes but you are making a huge assumption that being inclusive somehow makes your game more widely accepted in the world and that it adds a level of desire. I view my gay friends as friends. I honestly dont view them as someone who is a one issue person.

If you had a friend who was a member of a racial minority, and they didn't feel so great about playing something because they felt excluded or discriminated against by it, would that bother you at all? Your friend isn't an activist or involved in progressive causes or anything, and he's easy going, but he just doesn't feel great about the fact that the studio is headed up by a guy who has made lots of racist comments and the game has minorities in diminutive situations.

 

If so, extend that to the group of people looking to play something together. The market has lots of competition. Doesn't take much to cause an entire group to pick one title instead of the other within the same genre. The reason might not even be mentioned explicitly. Diablo 3 or Path of Exile? "I like Path of Exile more". "K, cool." Whole group goes.

 

They don't suddenly love SWTOR because they can be gay in it. Maybe its just me but I feel like people are really over doing this type of thing in gaming and all facets of the world and in the process are turning their friends into people who care about 1 singular part of their identity.

I think you might be underestimating how prominent sexuality is in human culture. Media is really quite saturated by heterosexual narratives, meaning, situations that are inclusive of and supportive of that identity. Problem is, when you share that identity yourself, this 'privilege of inclusion' is invisible to you. It's a particular series of barriers to access that you don't encounter.

 

As an exercise, try this. It's something that helped me notice. The next time you're watching a film about something that isn't romance or sex but which still has personal relationships, any drama really, duplicate the genders of the actors on screen whenever they are in mixed company. So, for example, if you have a man and a woman having a serious conversation, imagine that the same conversation is occurring between two men. If the result is that the scene suddenly seems awkward to you, that's because it contains heteronormative content. You will find this all over the place.

 

 

 

But then again, Facebook has MILLIONS of users.

Yes, but consider how and why that happened.

 

If brownie points were a currency, I'm sure EaWare would try and rack em up.

It's actually an asset called "goodwill". It goes on the accounting books and tangibly increases the value of a brand. Not kidding.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Laiov

[Solzean]

If you had a friend who was a member of a racial minority, and they didn't feel so great about playing something because they felt excluded or discriminated against by it, would that bother you at all? Your friend isn't an activist or involved in progressive causes or anything, and he's easy going, but he just doesn't feel great about the fact that the studio is headed up by a guy who has made lots of racist comments and the game has minorities in diminutive situations.

 

If so, extend that to the group of people looking to play something together. The market has lots of competition. Doesn't take much to cause an entire group to pick one title instead of the other within the same genre. The reason might not even be mentioned explicitly. Diablo 3 or Path of Exile? "I like Path of Exile more". "K, cool." Whole group goes.

 

 

I think you might be underestimating how prominent sexuality is in human culture. Media is really quite saturated by heterosexual narratives, meaning, situations that are inclusive of and supportive of that identity. Problem is, when you share that identity yourself, this 'privilege of inclusion' is invisible to you. It's a particular series of barriers to access that you don't encounter.

 

As an exercise, try this. It's something that helped me notice. The next time you're watching a film about something that isn't romance or sex but which still has personal relationships, any drama really, duplicate the genders of the actors on screen whenever they are in mixed company. So, for example, if you have a man and a woman having a serious conversation, imagine that the same conversation is occurring between two men. If the result is that the scene suddenly seems awkward to you, that's because it contains heteronormative content. You will find this all over the place.

 

 

 

 

Yes, but consider how and why that happened.

 

 

It's actually an asset called "goodwill". It goes on the accounting books and tangibly increases the value of a brand. Not kidding.

 

I appreciate your response but in the end I have to say this isn't an issue we will be able to see eye to eye on. Ive considered pretty much everything you've recommended in the past (I went to a highly progressive school where I heard this on a daily basis) and while I understand your argument we have a fundamental disagreement. As much as id love to have a dialogue about it, it is useless over the forums. The nuances of this debate are incredible and i would just sound nitpicky =P

[Laiov]

I appreciate your response but in the end I have to say this isn't an issue we will be able to see eye to eye on. Ive considered pretty much everything you've recommended in the past (I went to a highly progressive school where I heard this on a daily basis) and while I understand your argument we have a fundamental disagreement. As much as id love to have a dialogue about it, it is useless over the forums. The nuances of this debate are incredible and i would just sound nitpicky =P

Hey, fair enough. Thanks for engaging.

[Solzean]

Hey, fair enough. Thanks for engaging.

 

I hate just saying "I quit" but I do a terrible job of these things in a typed format. Best of luck and thanks for the response.

[announcerharris]

I can't believe, in 2013, this is still a subject of debate.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

I am actually against changing those characters just for SGR reasons (Although some, such as Kaliyo, could easily be bisexual) I am talking about future companions from expansions/CM who are not restricted by class.

 

My top five bisexual companion guesses:

 

1. Kaylio

 

2. Theran Cedrax

 

3. Skadge

 

4. Jaesa

 

5. Arc Jorgan

[TheNahash]

My top five bisexual companion guesses:

 

1. Kaylio

 

2. Theran Cedrax

 

3. Skadge

 

4. Jaesa

 

5. Arc Jorgan

 

I'm not one to gossip but I caught Talos checking out Andronikos once.

Just sayin'

[Callaron]

I'm not one to gossip but I caught Talos checking out Andronikos once.

Just sayin'

 

There is also a joke your Inquisitor can make during one of the conversations, saying Talos is into you.

And he starts stuttering and saying he didn't mean it that way.

[hadoken]

...

 

"back in the closet" right?

Edited August 3, 2013 by CommunityDroidEU
reply

[Cyberwoman]

..

 

Now that just silly in so many ways. Did you really use to support same-sex marriage? The fact that you refer to it as an 'agenda' makes me wonder. If you think our voices are to loud, then there is a reason for that, and its not to annoy you. Homophobia and its ilks are still rampant around the world. We have to speak up about equality, otherwise we will simply be pushed back in to the closet!

 

No offense, but when it comes to things involving equality, then I think the world should be told about such issues, and equal rights must be fought for, no matter how 'in your face' it may seem to some people.

Edited August 3, 2013 by CommunityDroidEU
reply

[ekwalizer]

Except that it is different. You don't need to spend a single dime to see yourself represented in this game or to romance a companion, it's all in the F2P option. LGBT players need to get to level 50, buy the expansion, male players need to run on the Empire side and female players on the republic side, to get 1 flirtable NPC. And if all future companions are going to require a CM purchase for a price around 2100CC or over with inflation, then LGBT players will have to shelve out 20 dollars for the xpack, 20 dollars for the companion with F2P (a subscription and 30 dollars for subscribers) to still be in an unbalanced situation. I don't see how this is anything but worse treatment.

 

I get this. I'm not on your team but fair is fair.

 

They don't have to even release another companion to realize the SGRA desires. All they have to do is make the "romance-able" companion conversations gender neutral. That solves the problem. If you are chick and want to flirt with Mako you should be able to. If you are a dude and want to flirt with Torian, you should be able to.

 

This isn't rocket surgery. It is a matter of changing a 0 to a 1 in the code that is imbedded into each conversation.

Edited August 3, 2013 by ekwalizer

[justandulas]

With all the very real and serious issues this game has... no offense, but this is far far far down the list. I get that everyone wants to be represented to some extent in game, but this game needs tons of new and meaningful content we can all enjoy.

 

Don't get me wrong, I hope they do add that companion for you guys and I'm not against it.... but this game is still bleeding subs and with ESO, and EQN both looking AMAZING today with their game footage... SWTOR needs to put their time into arenas, new wz's, mini games, pazaak, swoop bike racing, SSSP, etc. Things that will bring people in and keep them in.

 

I'm not meaning to trivialize your desires or anything (I don't think i've given a single crap about any of these 'romances in game as they don't mean a damn thing) but this game has alot more issues facing it's future than whether or not they can add more romanceable companions to slip the giggidy stick to.

Edited August 3, 2013 by justandulas

[Lord_of_Mu]

To be honest if they are going to add SGR companions I'd rather they add the new companions in a more meaningful way, like as a companion you pick up via class story progression. I would also rather see more realistic characters that don't follow stereotype personalities of fabulous mincing queens that some how translates to being "gay".

 

I don't doubt that some gay men play it up quite a bit but so far none of my gay friends have turned out way way.

 

Bioware does a great job for creating unique characters and I think it would be better to let them work on creating more story based content and ways to introduce these characters rather than throwing them up on the cartel store like some specialty item.

[theSCARAYone]

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[Callaron]

To be honest if they are going to add SGR companions I'd rather they add the new companions in a more meaningful way, like as a companion you pick up via class story progression. I would also rather see more realistic characters that don't follow stereotype personalities of fabulous mincing queens that some how translates to being "gay".

 

I don't doubt that some gay men play it up quite a bit but so far none of my gay friends have turned out way way.

 

Bioware does a great job for creating unique characters and I think it would be better to let them work on creating more story based content and ways to introduce these characters rather than throwing them up on the cartel store like some specialty item.

 

It'd be nice if they made a new lowbie planet with one or two new SGR companions worked into the storyline.

That way they give the crowd that wants an alternate leveling path something, and they've added new companions with a romance to the game.

A mini expansion pack - like Makeb, but without the level cap increase and such.

[Aebrynis]

I'm over it. Tired of people lording political correctness over each other to dictate action. This thread sucks.

 

To bioware, if you implement this companion, I won't spend money on it. Unlike HK and Treek.

 

Political correctness is a disease, true. I am not at all interested in 'equality' arguments Some of us are approaching it not from the P.C. angle, but from the 'goods not delivered' angle. Allow me to explain:

 

EAWare says you have, in addition to flashpoints, PVP, and so on...a robust interactive story with selected companions. People may have absolutely no interest in a majority of the story, and that's fine, but people who would prefer an SGRA romance storyline (gays, lesbians, and straight people playing the opposite gender who get squicked out romancing their own gender - and (in my opinion) Sith Inquisitors, who have zero viable romance options of ANY sort because Ashara and Andronikos both suck diseased monkey spheres) are left holding the bag. They have no option at all.

 

For straight folks playing their own gender, all is well, and these people may think that no further work need be done on such issues. But there are those of us who say that EAWare promised 'X' (namely a robust companion storyline), and it has been left to be more than somewhat lacking. I am not accusing them of lying, but I am saying they made a claim they aren't backing up.

 

In essence, we are not receiving the entire product as advertised

Edited August 3, 2013 by Aebrynis

[Spatology]

Several times, they told the community that FTP wasn't even being considered.....and yet....

 

All bets are off I suppose.

 

Good luck getting your content.