cool premades bro!

[Atramar]

If you don't think being in a well organized premade that communicates (because they know each other and possibly running voice chat) isn't an advantage you are delusional.

 

 

If you think a group of players in a pure PUG can coordinate on the same level of a premade you are delusional.

 

Forming premades is about one thing and one thing only: making sure your team has the advantage. Yes, you can do it with friends but really why are you doing it? To win of course. You trust you friends and can coordinate with them 100 times better than some Internet stranger.

 

I am not against premades, they just need to go into their own queue when a group of 3 or 4 is formed. This was already explained by the WoW devs many times. Its about even footing when the match starts. Premades are forced into their own queue there.

 

No one is arguing that premades don't have advantage.

Thing we argue is, what is that advantage and is it fair.

Is VoiP advantage? not really, you comunicate faster - yes, but only with half of team. It's still better to call down incomings on chat. If i'm on premade, most of our mumble is jokes and goofing around. Story telling from bored node guarders or while waiting for respawn.

 

Why people group? cause we like having comptetent people in team. When I pug (most of my pvp) I don't know if person next to me is a muppet. I don't know if a person who goes guarding will call incs or just go afk or wonder off, or run away and let them cap so they won't kill him as he is afraid to die.

and it's irritating when people don't even try.

does forming premade suddenly makes you a better player? no.

what is biggest advantage of premade? that atleast 3 of my team mates aren't dumb, and we have less spots for muppets.

If statisticly 25% players are terribads, 25% people are more or less ok and 50% are good, having 4 good people in premade leaves statisticly only 1 stop for terribad, 1 spot for more or less, and 2 good players.

while 8 man pug will have 2 terribads, 2 more or less ok, and 4 good players.

So advantage is 2 more good players, 1 less terribad, and 1 less more or less ok.

 

If you separate ques, all good players will go 'better que', while normal warzones will be left for terribads who will never learn.

 

and spot for terribasd is 10-54 bracket.

[Zunayson]

1. There is indeed a skillgap, evidently. But the question is - is that a bad thing? There's a skillgap between highschool and college and professional football, but that has an obvious gap. There is no obvious gap between a pug and a premade, except for one used "queue group," which does not entail skill at all because not all premades are good, and not all are on voicechat

 

2. Voice chat and communication, logically, is not an advantage. Voice chat could be argued as such (But communication skills is not. Voice chat or not, the individuals know how to communicate, and that is an MMO skill), but basic communication skills is the skill, while the voice chat allows that skill to be used easier. Just as knowing how to play huttball is a skill, playing the right class with the tools to do it allows that skill to be used. Example: as an operative, I have no move to prevent myself from being pulled in huttball like Hydraulic or shroud, and must rely solely on LoS

 

3. Forming premades is usually about winning. This is what we call.... competition. It means we try to do anything legal inside the game and within our ability to win. I guess people are arguing that forming premades against pugs should be illegal? If this indeed will be the case, then I will head over to Arenas, hoping for God's sake BW has released them by now.

 

----------------- Premades have no advantage intrinsically -------------------

 

Regardless of what anyone believes, it is a logical fact that premades have no extra-skill (that is, outside-of-skill) advantage over a pug individual.

 

Young black males are not evil, but it just so happens that most of the crimes committed in one ethnic and sexual group (the plurality) happens to be black males. It is a fact, and you cannot deny the statistics. They are not the leading crimes intrinsically due to their race, gender, and age, the connection goes much deeper, including their socioeconomic status, the way they were raised, where they live, etc.

 

Premade groups are not intrinsically good, it just so happens that most players that group up are good. Their skill does not come from the "queue group button," but the level of coordination they have, their knowledge of the game, and the overall skill that happens to be found in players that group. That connection between the group and the individual skill goes deeper, including the fact that for one, pvpers are obviously more vocal, and better players who know what's going on figure out how to queue group, and are social enough to make friends, etc. Plus its a team game and each individual's performance builds upon each other.

 

In short, you should be asking to not queue bads vs goods, which i am wholeheartedly in agreement with.

 

----------------Something nobody can deny----------------------

 

The fallacy that comes from "someone in a premade is not as good without the premade" is only because they look at the scoreboard and see it as a complete and accurate comparison of overall performance between every individual across both teams.

 

What if I told you that, instead of a premade making someone look better than they are, that a pug team makes someone look worse than they are?.

 

The only logical explanation is that everyone is bad and only when you add multiple bads of certain caliber you get goods! Or that this is a team game and you cannot measure someones skill based on a scoreboard or numbers.

 

-------------------- Continutation, also, you cannot measure skill in this game so stop whining -------------------------

 

This is, after all, a team game, and if a player cannot drive every aspect of his team, how can one measure how good he is? He cannot control mid and run the huttball across the endzone at the same time, and nobody can be expected to do that in a real match. Until you can make 7 copies of a players account and conscious to control 7 other players, you cannot tell me how good someone is.

 

Numbers lie because the winning team usually gets medals equivalent to how fast the match ended under 10 minutes (2 minute match = 8 more medals). I played a match outside of my guild's full 4 man premade, I was on the opposite team. Novate coast, 3 cap, of course. I got 7 medals I believe. The others on my team got like 5 maximum. That must mean the entire enemy team was better, because they were higher on the scoreboard!

 

In short, you cannot measure skill based on anything in the game currently, except for playing many matches and dissecting their every move.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Zunayson

[Arkerus]

1. There is indeed a skillgap, evidently. But the question is - is that a bad thing? There's a skillgap between highschool and college and professional football, but that has an obvious gap. There is no obvious gap between a pug and a premade, except for one used "queue group," which does not entail skill at all because not all premades are good, and not all are on voicechat

 

2. Voice chat and communication, logically, is not an advantage. Voice chat could be argued as such (But communication skills is not. Voice chat or not, the individuals know how to communicate, and that is an MMO skill), but basic communication skills is the skill, while the voice chat allows that skill to be used easier. Just as knowing how to play huttball is a skill, playing the right class with the tools to do it allows that skill to be used. Example: as an operative, I have no move to prevent myself from being pulled in huttball like Hydraulic or shroud, and must rely solely on LoS

 

3. Forming premades is usually about winning. This is what we call.... competition. It means we try to do anything legal inside the game and within our ability to win. I guess people are arguing that forming premades against pugs should be illegal? If this indeed will be the case, then I will head over to Arenas, hoping for God's sake BW has released them by now.

 

----------------- Premades have no advantage intrinsically -------------------

 

Regardless of what anyone believes, it is a logical fact that premades have no extra-skill (that is, outside-of-skill) advantage over a pug individual.

 

Young black males are not evil, but it just so happens that most of the crimes committed in one ethnic and sexual group (the plurality) happens to be black males. It is a fact, and you cannot deny the statistics. They are not the leading crimes intrinsically due to their race, gender, and age, the connection goes much deeper, including their socioeconomic status, the way they were raised, where they live, etc.

 

Premade groups are not intrinsically good, it just so happens that most players that group up are good. Their skill does not come from the "queue group button," but the level of coordination they have, their knowledge of the game, and the overall skill that happens to be found in players that group. That connection between the group and the individual skill goes deeper, including the fact that for one, pvpers are obviously more vocal, and better players who know what's going on figure out how to queue group, and are social enough to make friends, etc. Plus its a team game and each individual's performance builds upon each other.

 

In short, you should be asking to not queue bads vs goods, which i am wholeheartedly in agreement with.

 

----------------Something nobody can deny----------------------

 

The fallacy that comes from "someone in a premade is not as good without the premade" is only because they look at the scoreboard and see it as a complete and accurate comparison of overall performance between every individual across both teams.

 

What if I told you that, instead of a premade making someone look better than they are, that a pug team makes someone look worse than they are?.

 

The only logical explanation is that everyone is bad and only when you add multiple bads of certain caliber you get goods! Or that this is a team game and you cannot measure someones skill based on a scoreboard or numbers.

 

-------------------- Continutation, also, you cannot measure skill in this game so stop whining -------------------------

 

This is, after all, a team game, and if a player cannot drive every aspect of his team, how can one measure how good he is? He cannot control mid and run the huttball across the endzone at the same time, and nobody can be expected to do that in a real match. Until you can make 7 copies of a players account and conscious to control 7 other players, you cannot tell me how good someone is.

 

Numbers lie because the winning team usually gets medals equivalent to how fast the match ended under 10 minutes (2 minute match = 8 more medals). I played a match outside of my guild's full 4 man premade, I was on the opposite team. Novate coast, 3 cap, of course. I got 7 medals I believe. The others on my team got like 5 maximum. That must mean the entire enemy team was better, because they were higher on the scoreboard!

 

In short, you cannot measure skill based on anything in the game currently, except for playing many matches and dissecting their every move.

 

I can't even find a good spot to start with all the garbage you posted. To say premades don't have an advantage and they try to convince us of that is ridiculous at best and straight up lying at worst.

 

Voice chat (even text chat with people who LISTEN) is a HUGE advantage is WZs. Hell, in real life communication wins and loses wars.

 

You are absolutely crazy if you think that voice chat and premades don't offer a significant advantage over your typical pug.

[Atramar]

I can't even find a good spot to start with all the garbage you posted. To say premades don't have an advantage and they try to convince us of that is ridiculous at best and straight up lying at worst.

 

Voice chat (even text chat with people who LISTEN) is a HUGE advantage is WZs. Hell, in real life communication wins and loses wars.

 

You are absolutely crazy if you think that voice chat and premades don't offer a significant advantage over your typical pug.

 

you are right. premades have advantage cause they read in game chat. chat should be removed ;-)

tbh I don't need it, I see people going offnode and I know it needs support... and it's logical that when your node is attacked by 2 people only, other 5-6 has to be somewere...

[cycao]

I was in a premade last night. Had one sorc who wanted to 'help' me guard a node, asked if he would call so I could help out at mid and the response was 'no' and was semi afk the whole match.

 

A solid reason I group is that I can count on the people in my group to not need to be spoon fed.

[MasterFryman]

I can't even find a good spot to start with all the garbage you posted. To say premades don't have an advantage and they try to convince us of that is ridiculous at best and straight up lying at worst.

 

Voice chat (even text chat with people who LISTEN) is a HUGE advantage is WZs. Hell, in real life communication wins and loses wars.

 

You are absolutely crazy if you think that voice chat and premades don't offer a significant advantage over your typical pug.

 

i dont even know where to start with this garbage. I mean, seriously.

 

Example of how increasingly wrong you are, and how your point is soooooo off base and this argument will continue to fall on def ears except for those who share this ridiculous opinion.

 

Now, sorry guys i have to call out guilds in order to prove my point. Sorry in advance.

 

Dark Jesters teams up regularly on my server, AND WIN VERY RARELY!!! most often if a pre-made sees on their team that they have a pre-made Dark Jesters squad in their ops frame, they will LEAVE !!! this is to avoid the undeniable fact that they are not good, and they do not want to get rolled. This ignorant and unbelievably blinded argument that Pre-Mades are unfairly advantaged is so off base that it has become laughable. I know i only use Dark Jesters, however, there are many .... and i do mean many.. other guilds that form pre-mades that get rolled by 8 pugs on the regular. What you often see though, is that team gets better over time.

 

We are all sorry, that you and your kind cannot seem to find a way in a MMO to make friends. We all are sorry when you get rolled that you are upset about it. However, I think I speak for 90% of the highly skilled PvPers when i say, IF YOU WERE GOOD, EITHER YOU WOULD HAVE FRIENDS TO QUEUE WITH, OR ..... YOU WOULDNT GET ROLLED.

 

This is an MMO, you are MEANT TO GROUP... you notice that you get more XP when you group!!! see ... grouping is encouraged. I am GLAD BioWare in all its screwups have stood ground on this. Find friends, find people to group with.

 

Oh and so you know, when get rolled by people that are in different guilds, you probably just got rolled by a pre-made. The other night we had a pre-made of 4 different guilds, Immortalitas, Unconquered, DeathSmile, Death-Sentence... the other 4 were pugs and we won NON STOP, funny part was, they thought we were randoms.

 

Seeing 4 people from the same guild isn't the only sign of a pre-made. Most of have friends spread all over the game that are all in different guilds. If we notice them online via our "friends list" we ask if they want to group.. Amazing. Friends not in the same guild... i know... irrational right. <<< Example of grouping when not on very often.

(ps. we rolled double premades all night, yes another example of a pre-made not having an advantage. GUESS WHAT ... THE ADVANTAGE GOES TO THE MOST SKILLED... ever heard the saying "birds of a feather")

 

In closing, the "queue group" button doesn't all of a sudden make you good, or give you an advantage, however, playing an MMO and making friends, that gives you an advantage. Try it out... you might win more WZ. And hey, those who solo queue might see tactics they didn't know before and may get better at PvP!!!! i know another irrational thought.

[eavn]

i dont even know where to start with this garbage. I mean, seriously.

 

Example of how increasingly wrong you are, and how your point is soooooo off base and this argument will continue to fall on def ears except for those who share this ridiculous opinion.

 

Now, sorry guys i have to call out guilds in order to prove my point. Sorry in advance.

 

Dark Jesters teams up regularly on my server, AND WIN VERY RARELY!!! most often if a pre-made sees on their team that they have a pre-made Dark Jesters squad in their ops frame, they will LEAVE !!! this is to avoid the undeniable fact that they are not good, and they do not want to get rolled. This ignorant and unbelievably blinded argument that Pre-Mades are unfairly advantaged is so off base that it has become laughable. I know i only use Dark Jesters, however, there are many .... and i do mean many.. other guilds that form pre-mades that get rolled by 8 pugs on the regular. What you often see though, is that team gets better over time.

 

We are all sorry, that you and your kind cannot seem to find a way in a MMO to make friends. We all are sorry when you get rolled that you are upset about it. However, I think I speak for 90% of the highly skilled PvPers when i say, IF YOU WERE GOOD, EITHER YOU WOULD HAVE FRIENDS TO QUEUE WITH, OR ..... YOU WOULDNT GET ROLLED.

 

This is an MMO, you are MEANT TO GROUP... you notice that you get more XP when you group!!! see ... grouping is encouraged. I am GLAD BioWare in all its screwups have stood ground on this. Find friends, find people to group with.

 

Oh and so you know, when get rolled by people that are in different guilds, you probably just got rolled by a pre-made. The other night we had a pre-made of 4 different guilds, Immortalitas, Unconquered, DeathSmile, Death-Sentence... the other 4 were pugs and we won NON STOP, funny part was, they thought we were randoms.

 

Seeing 4 people from the same guild isn't the only sign of a pre-made. Most of have friends spread all over the game that are all in different guilds. If we notice them online via our "friends list" we ask if they want to group.. Amazing. Friends not in the same guild... i know... irrational right. <<< Example of grouping when not on very often.

(ps. we rolled double premades all night, yes another example of a pre-made not having an advantage. GUESS WHAT ... THE ADVANTAGE GOES TO THE MOST SKILLED... ever heard the saying "birds of a feather")

 

In closing, the "queue group" button doesn't all of a sudden make you good, or give you an advantage, however, playing an MMO and making friends, that gives you an advantage. Try it out... you might win more WZ. And hey, those who solo queue might see tactics they didn't know before and may get better at PvP!!!! i know another irrational thought.

 

dont beat on poor DJ, not thier fault they are bads

[TridusSWTOR]

...

 

To people reading this thread, you can pretty much tell when someone lost an argument when they have to bring up these points.

 

Good job owning yourself. It humored me.

 

To the OP: Best solution is a matchmaking system and takes note of group composition. Offering a group rating buff and adjusting on the fly. Also I recommend a BF3 style command system, someone else offered this suggestion and it is a really great idea. Pretty much secures some well balanced matches with some handy voice tools to help.

Edited August 3, 2013 by CommunityDroidEU
reply

[MasterFryman]

dont beat on poor DJ, not thier fault they are bads

 

I know, i wasn't trying to beat on them, i tried to apologize ahead of time. But they are a good contradiction to the point all pre-mades have an advantage. And they are not the only ones.

[EzioMessi]

I can't even find a good spot to start with all the garbage you posted. To say premades don't have an advantage and they try to convince us of that is ridiculous at best and straight up lying at worst.

 

Voice chat (even text chat with people who LISTEN) is a HUGE advantage is WZs. Hell, in real life communication wins and loses wars.

 

You are absolutely crazy if you think that voice chat and premades don't offer a significant advantage over your typical pug.

 

You are absolutely crazy if you think me and my guildies and 90% of all premades actually have the time or need to set up a Voice channel. Every single premade I've played in has been a "Anyone wanna play a wz?" In guild chat' followed by inviting and queuing. We ARE NOT some evil maniacs plotting to farm bads and hatching turtle comp strategies to smash bads, we just want to freaking play.

 

You confuse the 10% elite and hardcore players with the 90% of premades that just want to queue together. Separating queues will force us 90% to lose again and again and again to the 10%, AND suffer incredibly long queue times to satisfy your need to play with and against PuGs.

[cashogy_reborn]

The only skill gap is between good and bad players.

 

There are good players that pug.

There are bad players that form premades.

 

 

The only advantages that a premade has that cannot be overcome by a solo-queued player are group composition and voip. Thats it.

[General_Aldo]

The only skill gap is between good and bad players.

 

There are good players that pug.

There are bad players that form premades.

 

 

The only advantages that a premade has that cannot be overcome by a solo-queued player are group composition and voip. Thats it.

 

You speak the truth.

 

It's nice to know there are still players on the forums that know what's going on.

[Arkerus]

You are absolutely crazy if you think me and my guildies and 90% of all premades actually have the time or need to set up a Voice channel. Every single premade I've played in has been a "Anyone wanna play a wz?" In guild chat' followed by inviting and queuing. We ARE NOT some evil maniacs plotting to farm bads and hatching turtle comp strategies to smash bads, we just want to freaking play.

 

You confuse the 10% elite and hardcore players with the 90% of premades that just want to queue together. Separating queues will force us 90% to lose again and again and again to the 10%, AND suffer incredibly long queue times to satisfy your need to play with and against PuGs.

 

I am not against premades but by their nature they offer advantages over a pure pug group. You have people on your team who are willing to listen and coordinate because they owe you the respect to do so. I am in a guild. When we "premade" together we all listen to eachother even if through chat.

 

You can't get that from a PUG because everyone is second guessing everyone else and not really listening. How many times does someone at start call out a strat and 4 different people do 4 different things.

 

Premades are an advantage beyond simple skill gap. To deny that is foolish.

[Arkerus]

...

 

I don't think you understand how important simply being in a premade that rolls complimentary compositions and LISTENS to eachother is in a WZ. Its a giant advantage over PUGs.

 

If the biggest MMO on the planet (WoW) has developers that have elaborated on that point...I'm pretty sure the conversation is closed.

 

All i see here is people who roll 4 man premades want to keep it that way so they can pick up their easy wins.

Edited August 3, 2013 by CommunityDroidEU
reply

[EzioMessi]

I am not against premades but by their nature they offer advantages over a pure pug group. You have people on your team who are willing to listen and coordinate because they owe you the respect to do so. I am in a guild. When we "premade" together we all listen to eachother even if through chat.

 

You can't get that from a PUG because everyone is second guessing everyone else and not really listening. How many times does someone at start call out a strat and 4 different people do 4 different things.

 

Premades are an advantage beyond simple skill gap. To deny that is foolish.

 

So instead of the people that don't read chat being forced to learn, you would rather people in casual premades be forced to queue exclusively against hardcore premades and have absolutely no chance of winning?

[Doomsdaycomes]

I don't think you understand how important simply being in a premade that rolls complimentary compositions and LISTENS to eachother is in a WZ. Its a giant advantage over PUGs.

 

If the biggest MMO on the planet (WoW) has developers that have elaborated on that point...I'm pretty sure the conversation is closed.

All i see here is people who roll 4 man premades want to keep it that way so they can pick up their easy wins.

 

Gonna have to step in here because I -love- when people bring up WoW's recent "stand against Premades article."

 

WoW article was specifically about the super queue ability allowed by oQueue, a WoW-addon that allowed groups larger than their standard party size to all get into the same game. We're talking a 6-15 (or sometimes higher) size group against a PuG. Considering you had to purposefully use oQueue to actively make this happen, there was a good chance most of those people were also on voice chat and more importantly, they showed a premeditated intention to exploit the system.

 

WoW took no such stand against players grouping in general, or grouping within the parameters of their acceptable group size (5). Bringing up WoW and their stance against oQueue (super queue) is irrelevant to the 4-man premades we have here.

 

I suggest you go back and read that article. Misquoting/using hurts your argument.

[Zunayson]

I don't think you understand how important simply being in a premade that rolls complimentary compositions and LISTENS to eachother is in a WZ. Its a giant advantage over PUGs.

 

I do understand how that is an advantage. I know it is an advantage. The patriots have Tom Brady. It's an advantage. Obviously, worse teams shouldn't be allowed to play the Patriots in football, because they have a better quarterback - and yet, people don't have a problem with easy wins by the Patriots. Wanna know why? Someone has to win, stop trying to make it as close as it can be.

 

All i see here is people who roll 4 man premades want to keep it that way so they can pick up their easy wins.

 

Tell me why easy wins are bad for a team that obviously outskills the other.

 

 

I'll try to say it this way:

• Strategy is your mental preparation for a task - what you're gonna do.
  
• Skill is your physical execution of that task - how you're gonna do it.
  

The below four scenarios are to get it into your head exactly what I mean by the above definitions. If you are comfortable with them, then there is no need to read the four paragraphs below; skip ahead.

 

Sometimes, we lack strategy, but can still have skill, and blindly go to mid in ACW 1 at a time and get massacred by 6 people. But, those players may very well be able to kill those 6 people if they themselves had grouped up with 5 others and waited. In this way, they had a bad plan, but were good at executing plans

 

Sometimes, we have strategy, but have no skill. The team that goes in and waits for their team, but still lacks the rotation and class knowledge to outdeeps/heal/los/cc/peel/whatever to beat the team given equal odds. Rarely do I get a team that is close to here.

 

Sometimes, we have neither strategy nor skill. Take the worst of the two above scenarios, you can fill in the rest. These teams are rare to get 8 players of this sucky caliber.

 

Sometimes, we have strategy and skill. The players of the premade that you're probably whining about may fit into this category. Usually ends up as a spawn slaughter, against a team that fits scenario one or three (But usually one).

 

So, in regards to communication, strategy could be considered the knowledge of the need of communication, the knowledge of its need and usefulness, and really just any knowledge.

 

The skill of communication is considered the physical execution - the communicating itself. The words you type in. Your typing skills. How fast you type, abbreviations you use, really the typing itself, -and/or- the words you'd speak in a mumble software.

 

PUGS LACK the ABILITY to do voice chat, which is the ONLY advantage premade players have over pugs.

 

If a PUG lacks the STRATEGY to understand communication (typing in chat), then that is NO DIFFERENT then lacking strategy in any other regard of the game.

 

If a PUG lacks the SKILL to communicate (cannot type in chat because doesn't know english/doesn't know how to effectively say "6 enemy players incoming to the node at grass against our 2" quickly), then that is NO DIFFERENT then lacking skill in any other regard of the game.

 

TL;DR Being a premade doesn't mean each player in the premade listens to chat. Conversely, pug players don't necessarily ignore chat.

 

The communication block is a difference between bads and goods, not premades and pugs. the only thing a premade has is the possibility of voice chat, that is all

Edited August 3, 2013 by Zunayson

[SomeJagoff]

Yea but you also got to ask yourself is each player in a premade any good by themselves?

 

Usually no. There are a handful of exceptionally skilled players from top premades that excel even when grouped completely with pugs in the solo queue. Their personal skill is usually reflected on the scoreboard where they stand out from the rest. That's not typical of most premade players that queue solo though. Usually, without their voicechat/pocket heals/guard, they'll do mediocre at best, not particularly good objectives wise, damage wise, strategy wise, etc. They'll just blend in with the other pugs on the scoreboard.

 

That's not too surprising though. After all, if you're on voicechat with your premade and the leader says "focus fire this guy" you just have to do 1-2 attacks and the guy is dead and you think "damn, I'm r33t!" Whereas if you do the same 1-2 attacks without the premade, the guy isn't dead and you're baffled as to why you're 1-2 attacks didn't kill him.

 

PVPing in a group and PVPing solo are 2 very different experiences, some can adjust going from group to solo, most can't. Factor in that this current matchmaking system tends to favor full pugs vs premades, the premade players who choose to solo queue usually end up facing premades, making it even harder for them to adjust their playstyle and excel solo like they do in a premade.

[cashogy_reborn]

I was doing premades all night long.

 

And it felt so good

[LenrocNewDawn]

The only advantages that a premade has that cannot be overcome by a solo-queued player are group composition and voip. Thats it.

 

Aren't those advantages enough when all other things are equal? And you have to agree that statistically more good player play in pre-mades then in PuGs, as skill is close related with time spent in-game and people that spend more time in game are more likely to be guilded and have like-minded play friends. The matter is simple enough, the fact that some benefit over the status quo over-complicates the issue.

 

@Zunayson

What's with the posting diarrhea? Less words more information please my eyes are bleeding. There are advantages and there are advantages. An advantage has the guy that holds an AK-47 over one that holds a knife also an advantage has the guy that is a better aim with an AK-47 over a guy that has an AK-47 but is a lousy shot. You must see that those advantages are not equal in order of magnitude, even the lousy shot will fill you full of lead before you manage to use the knife.

Edited August 3, 2013 by LenrocNewDawn

[cashogy_reborn]

Aren't those advantages enough when all other things are equal? And you have to agree that statistically more good player play in pre-mades then in PuGs, as skill is close related with time spent in-game and people that spend more time in game are more likely to be guilded and have like-minded play friends. The matter is simple enough, the fact that some benefit over the status quo over-complicates the issue.

 

If all things were always equal, sure. But that is almost never the case in regs. Just because players are grouped and are together in voip does not make them good. Ive seen/played with plenty of people that have both of those things and are still terrible (I recently saw a scoundrel healer from a premade do <200k healing in a full length huttball).

 

The only issues in regs is the massive disparity in player skill level. Which is why I have been a proponent of skill based matchmaking for a very long time now.

 

And as you say, most of the high skilled players are more often forming premades, so by separating based on skill level you are already helping to alleviate some of the frustrations that the typical solo queued player has.

Edited August 3, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

[LenrocNewDawn]

If all things were always equal, sure. But that is almost never the case in regs. Just because players are grouped and are together in voip does not make them good.

Look Cash, in order to calculate the impact of a variable in an equation you need to modify it while keeping the other variables constant or your results will be inconsistent and false.

Pre-mades groups are not the only variable in play when it comes to balance a WZ's equation and by having another (like high player skill in the PuG group) with a high value can change the balance although the added value of the pre-made is still there but it isn't high enough to tip the balance for the PM group. As long as the voip and composition are not provided by the match making system then the PM group should hold the advantage if we consider player skill constant.

 

I agree with you that in reality player skill is never constant that's why we get so different game experiences.

I'll say again that PMs are not a bad thing in fact is the natural progression for anybody that likes to PvP but I stick to my opinion that the way match making uses PMs when forming matches can give very unbalanced results.

 

I kid you not but when waiting for a RWZ to pop, we queued for regs and got an both 4 men groups in the same team. It was a sad sight and the other team got stomped hard although we are not the best PvPers around. Also true we got our groups pitted against each-other, in another round, which resulted in a ton of fun and friendly insults over mumble (my group won ).

Edited August 3, 2013 by LenrocNewDawn

[orryko]

get rolled bottom-feeder

[LenrocNewDawn]

..

 

Sam do yourself a favor and remove yourself from the forum. I hope you were drunk when spewing this cause i see no other excuse for such a load of crap.

 

If this is sarcasm is a very bad form of it .

Edited August 5, 2013 by CommunityDroidEU
reply

[Kainozorva]

4 with micro vs. single random, you're so hi leveled! why u don't play rwz? Edited August 3, 2013 by Kainozorva