cool premades bro!

[Turn-XGundam]

They do not always have healers. This can be fixed easily with a role system, though your queues will most likely suffer.

 

i don't know about you, but all the premades i face have at least 1 healer. most of the time more then 1 and all they do crossheal 24/7

[platinumruggo]

I have been on the receiving and giving end of a premade loss and win. I can honestly say that I don't understand people who are against premades in anyway. I pug about.. 85% of the time I queue, I lose a lot more matches than I win mainly due to my team. It might come off as cocky, but it isn't. I main an op, I used to do concealment all the time until I decided that coming out on top dps with only like 370k damage while everyone else are playing better classes and getting less numbers than me, wasn't a good use of my time. Played with some really cool people about a week ago, joined a guild, started doing premades pretty often.

 

Definitely the best decision I've ever made in my entire life. Being able to go from losing about 60% of my matches to about 30% is a huge boost. Premades have an advantage over pugs, especially if they communicate, are good at their class and so on and so forth. There are multiple factors in this argument, not just one reliable source to pool from. Premades don't want to NOT be able to queue with friends, pugs get tired of getting crushed by premades. However, no one is stopping pugs from forming premades or premades from queuing solo, so wherein does the problem lay exactly? Are people just simply complaining to just complain or is there some validity to their argument?

 

I can wholeheartedly say that if more people got on around the time I normally play, I would premade 100% of the time. Hell, even though I premade more, me and my group still don't win ALL of our matches, and I'm okay with that, I'd get bored if that were the case. I suppose the point I'm trying to get across is pugs shouldn't try to stop people from grouping up and actually ENJOYING themselves with their friends. Even if a premade is good, if their other four teammates are trash, it'll be pretty difficult to win even for good premades. I've come back from potential losses against good premades mainly because my team decided to actually step up and stop being bad and help. It's all about preference I believe. Stop complaining, group up or just continue to play solo and get crushed. Your choice.

[Darkshadz]

Sorry, couldn't stop laughing there.

 

So in the entire industry of MMO's I see one MMO that's actually implemented a solo-only queue (actually, it's a 1-2 queue)... that one being Rift. We can't tell how well it's working on their subs since they don't have to publish their numbers. The trumpet "King of MMO's" WoW still doesn't have it from what I can tell...

 

I dunno how Rift's system work on their subs but we know for sure if their solution really works:

 

http://forums.riftgame.com/game-discussions/pvp-warfronts/378935-warfront-lopsidedness-remove-factions-make-red-blue.html

 

There will still be lopsided matches with a solo-only queue option. If that is the case in Rift, how different would that be here?

[cashogy_reborn]

Eh, The OP has a point, I find the "If you can't beat a premade make one" argument to be childish and really impractical.

 

Either seperate the ques so that random PUGs go against random PUGs and Premades against premades, Or have the weekly take 18 losses to complete. (x2 win)

 

In a video game, Fun for the players takes precedence over what your little PVP guild wants to do. If you are making other player hate PVP, don't complain when we restrict your ability to do that.

 

And I find the "those guys grouped up and were better than me so make it so they arent allowed to play against me" argument childish and really impractical.....

 

As does Bioware it seems. Hence their total silence on the issue.

[Doomsdaycomes]

I dunno how Rift's system work on their subs but we know for sure if their solution really works:

 

http://forums.riftgame.com/game-discussions/pvp-warfronts/378935-warfront-lopsidedness-remove-factions-make-red-blue.html

 

There will still be lopsided matches with a solo-only queue option. If that is the case in Rift, how different would that be here?

 

I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not.

 

Matchmaking > Solo-bracket?

[Darkshadz]

I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not.

 

Matchmaking > Solo-bracket?

 

Yup. Solo queueing doesn't work too well in Rift since people are complaining about lopsided matches. The same thing will happen in SWTOR if the devs ever decides to implement that. Nothing will change so the only viable solution is a good matchmaking system.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Darkshadz

[Doomsdaycomes]

Yup. Solo queueing doesn't work too well in Rift since people are complaining about lopsided matches. The same thing will happen in SWTOR if the devs ever decides to implement that. Nothing will change so the only viable solution is a good matchmaking system.

 

Okay, was checking. We're in agreement about matchmaking and that it's hasn't fixed much in rift.

 

Nothing more to see here.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

Yup. Solo queueing doesn't work too well in Rift since people are complaining about lopsided matches. The same thing will happen in SWTOR if the devs ever decides to implement that. Nothing will change so the only viable solution is a good matchmaking system.

 

Any mechanic whatsoever that discriminates against one player for another, will only increase queue times, this cannot be allowed to happen.

 

Matchmaking will increase queue times, end of story. You queue up before me, you are not good enough to enter a match about to pop, I queue up 5 mins after you and I get in for whatever reason, this is not acceptable.

 

The only way matchmaking is feasible, is with cross server queues, but as you should already know, they have stated they do not have the tech for this, so it will not be happening.

 

I log to play, not stand around waiting to play.

Edited August 7, 2013 by ThorgrimLutgen

[cashogy_reborn]

Any mechanic whatsoever that discriminates against one player for another, will only increase queue times, this cannot be allowed to happen.

 

Matchmaking will increase queue times, end of story. You queue up before me, you are not good enough to enter a match about to pop, I queue up 5 mins after you and I get in for whatever reason, this is not acceptable.

 

The only way matchmaking is feasible, is with cross server queues, but as you should already know, they have stated they do not have the tech for this, so it will not be happening.

 

I log to play, not stand around waiting to play.

 

Your logic.... is illogical

[Sharee]

I would have preferred a: "I read the article and realized what you were talking about and you are correct."

 

but... if this is you bowing out with grace I'll be happy to allow it. Till next time.

 

I must disappoint you on both accounts.

 

Neither are you correct nor did i 'bow out'. I simply realized i am talking to a brick wall. Have a nice day.

[Sharee]

 

There will still be lopsided matches with a solo-only queue option. If that is the case in Rift, how different would that be here?

 

Lopsided matches that come as a result of the random nature of solo queueing are not a problem*. Every solo queuer understands bad luck sometimes pits good players against bad players, but he does not mind because he knows both sides are subject to this kind of randomness. Over longer periods of time, this tends to even out.

 

--------------------------------

* or at least not as much of a problem. Some people will always be complaining, no matter what

Edited August 7, 2013 by Sharee

[Darkshadz]

Lopsided matches that come as a result of the random nature of solo queueing are not a problem*. Every solo queuer understands bad luck sometimes pits good players against bad players, but he does not mind because he knows both sides are subject to this kind of randomness. Over longer periods of time, this tends to even out.

 

--------------------------------

* or at least not as much of a problem. Some people will always be complaining, no matter what

 

Lopsided matches doesn't happen "sometimes" in Rift. The solo-queue option will not magically make WZs better for PUGers. In fact, there will be no difference. People will just blame it on faction imbalance.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Darkshadz

[Doomsdaycomes]

I must disappoint you on both accounts.

 

Neither are you correct nor did i 'bow out'. I simply realized i am talking to a brick wall. Have a nice day.

 

No, you are just god damned wrong. Read the damn article, the dev is talking about -full- battlegroups vs random ones, random one's be constructed of players queue'ing in groups of 1-5 and full battlegroups being atleast 6 or more players queuing.

 

The entire article, dev post, and patch is in reference to oQueue and the patch fixed the super queue possible via it. Go on, read the bloody thing. It's not even about PuG's! It's about players abusing a system vs players who don't, and the fact being if you can organize the 15-30 people needed for each specific battleground you should be doing their rated version which is meant for that.

 

Notice he didn't say "groups of 5 should go do rated" or "groups of five are unfair" because he can count and he knows groups of 5 =/= full battleground group (as is the requirement for rated).

 

You try so, so hard to make the shoe fit and it just won't. Spin it all you like, but you're just wrong.

[Sharee]

The solo-queue option will not magically make WZs better for PUGers.

 

The solo-queue option will make sure that the enemy side is just as subject to the luck of the draw as the friendly side. That alone will make it better for the PUGers, as it makes the starting conditions for both sides equal.

 

Without that option, the PUG side suffers from random team composition while the other side possibly doesn't. That puts the PUG at a disadvantage. Solo-queue removes that disadvantage, thus making the situation better for the PUGers.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Sharee

[PoiBallMan]

Eh, The OP has a point, I find the "If you can't beat a premade make one" argument to be childish and really impractical.

 

Either seperate the ques so that random PUGs go against random PUGs and Premades against premades, Or have the weekly take 18 losses to complete. (x2 win)

 

In a video game, Fun for the players takes precedence over what your little PVP guild wants to do. If you are making other player hate PVP, don't complain when we restrict your ability to do that.

 

Heh, kind of funny of how you call the argument childish, and then childishly belittle PvP guilds. I'm still not sure why you're picking on PvP guilds, as the majority of guilds I see queuing premades would consider themselves PvE that like doing warzones to break the monotony.

 

Queuing solo, I've crushed premades, and have been crushed by premades. If I repeatedly get crushed, I start talking to the better people I've seen queuing, and I invite them to a group. Those people then make their way onto my friends list, and then get invited when I want to pvp. The whole process takes no time, and couldn't get easier or more practical.

 

Solo queues would be just as abused as the current system (8 people on vent coordinating a queue at the same time), and matchmaking would be great, but extremely hard to implement: based on gear, what's to stop people from queing with PvE gear, then switching to PvP gear in-warzone? If you start assigning ratings, you'd scare off several people that don't want to incur bad ratings, and, in addition, what would be the point of ranked? You could do matchmaking based on roles, but I'd hate to wait an hour for a queue because we're waiting for a tank.

[Sharee]

Solo queues would be just as abused as the current system (8 people on vent coordinating a queue at the same time).

 

It would still be better than current system because

 

1, what you described would be a hassle compared to the current easy system. People might find it not worth the trouble, especially considering that

2, even with vent and coordinating, in same-faction matches(which make up about half of my warzones) the queuers would end up on oposite sides more often than not, and

3, when there are multiple warzones going on, a member of the team would possibly find himself backfilled into a different game instead of playing with his team. All of them would have to quit and retry hoping for a different result... only to end up in a same faction match: requeue time. As i said, a hassle, not worth the bother when they can just queue as a group for ranked(or normal, facing other groups).

Edited August 7, 2013 by Sharee

[SajPl]

Lopsided matches that come as a result of the random nature of solo queueing are not a problem*. Every solo queuer understands bad luck sometimes pits good players against bad players, but he does not mind because he knows both sides are subject to this kind of randomness. Over longer periods of time, this tends to even out.

 

--------------------------------

* or at least not as much of a problem. Some people will always be complaining, no matter what

 

No. No it wouldn't. Some people are just so bad that they will drag each and every single team down or 90% of them anyway. Then they will come here and moan. Just like the current anti-premade moaners. The op premade is allways on the other team QQ. You people need to realise that you have a premade on your own team just as often and if you drag your team down, maby it's time to learn your class not moan that the good player are allways on the other team ...

Edited August 7, 2013 by SajPl

[Sharee]

No. No it wouldn't. Some people are just so bad that they will drag each and every single team down or 90% of tchem anyway.

 

Right - however in a solo-queue the above applies to both sides equally. So again, the effect evens out over time. You get a bad player today, they get a bad player tomorrow. That's the beauty of solo queueing without premade interference.

[Zunayson]

The solo-queue option will make sure that the enemy side is just as subject to the luck of the draw as the friendly side. That alone will make it better for the PUGers, as it makes the starting conditions for both sides equal.

 

People will still complain about getting rolled, and how "bioware fixes matches" on servers like pot5

 

IMO anything luck of the draw should be thrown out in an MMO, especially one like teams that once it is done, it's done. In that case, the game is decided right then and there at the beginning if the teams are that lobsided.

 

In a team game like this, choosing one's own composition is a huge element. Since there's not enough people for them to allow you to choose each and every class, a role system is better than no role system (although I'm sure we're in agreement)

[SajPl]

Right - however in a solo-queue the above applies to both sides equally. So again, the effect evens out over time. You get a bad player today, they get a bad player tomorrow. That's the beauty of solo queueing without premade interference.

 

You get put against a premade today and you get a premade to carry you tomorrow. Everything is even and according to your logic there is no problem.

[Sharee]

You get put against a premade today and you get a premade to carry you tomorrow. Everything is even and according to your logic there is no problem.

 

Being on a side with a premade and utterly crushing a PUG opposition is just as bad as the other way around. Boring.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Sharee

[Zunayson]

Being on a side with a premade and utterly crushing a PUG opposition is just as bad as the other way around. Boring.

 

So is getting a bad pug vs a good pug?

 

In the long run, what you have is MMOs that are 85% luck, and nobody likes losing, especially when they can't even control it.

 

What's boring is a luck-based "competition" where nobody shines. Somebody is always the best, but when it's 50/50, there's a problem.

 

There should be no random roleless queueing, all queueing needs to be selected or else this game is seriously nothing but luck.

[Sharee]

So is getting a bad pug vs a good pug?

 

In the long run, what you have is MMOs that are 85% luck, and nobody likes losing, especially when they can't even control it.

 

Bad pug vs good PUG games are usually a lot closer than pug vs premade games. Games where you get a full team of good players against a full team of bad players are outright rare - usually it's a mix of both on both sides.

 

This makes for a challenging game. Less challenging when your side has better composition/better players, more challenging when it's the other way around. But it is rarely a complete faceroll as it usually is when one side was premade and the other wasn't.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Sharee

[Darkshadz]

Bad pug vs good PUG games are usually a lot closer than pug vs premade games. Games where you get a full team of good players against a full team of bad players are outright rare - usually it's a mix of both on both sides.

 

Oh I don't think so. It only happens if both teams are equally good (or bad). You're trying too hard to find new arguments to support the solo queue option. Mark my words: if they ever implement that feature, you will still be complaining about lopsided matches here. BTW did you read my link from the Rift forums?

[Sharee]

Oh I don't think so. It only happens if both teams are equally good (or bad).

 

Equally good teams means an extremely close game. But you don't need equally good teams to get a close game. 7 good players against 6 good players(rest filled with bad players) is close. 5 good players against 7 good players can be close too depending on warzone. Even 3 players against 2 players (this is much more realistic in a pug vs pug btw). And so on.

 

With pug vs pug, you will see a full scale of results going from 'that was easy' to 'helluva fight', unlike pug vs premade where you usually only see the extreme cases of facerolling or being facerolled.

 

 

Mark my words: if they ever implement that feature, you will still be complaining about lopsided matches here. BTW did you read my link from the Rift forums?

 

Yes, some people (not me) will still be complaining(like on that rift forum).

 

So what? The goal of the feature is to make life better for the average solo-queuer, not to stop people from complaining.