NERF : Guardian Tanks

[MillionsKNives]

There's nothing to argue.

We agree, you have no argument.

Im only addressing PVP. There is balance there and the classes are fine for the most part. I don't care about the PVE side of things as I hardly play it. So there may be imbalance there, I don't know.

Good thing you've come to a thread discussing PVE then.

No one has given a real viable reason to nerf guardians. Nothing about them is OP, NOTHING.

I thought you weren't familiar with the PVE side, now you act like you're familiar with all of the arguments. You are also free to actually rebut them instead of simply asserting that none of them are a "viable reason".

I've played one since head start and have always played it as a tank.

Congrats.

We don't have true self heals, 3% and 8%(if using the vindicator set bonus) aren't self heals.

No but you do have a much more flat damage profile that makes healing easier in most situations, and the ability to instantly pad your health by a large margin when necessary.

We don't have stealth and we can't cleanse movement impairing effects unless we use our CC breaker.

I would mention that neither is particularly useful in operations, but I already know you'd ignore that since you "don't care about the PVE side of things".

I loved the class then and I love the class now. There is no reason to nerf us. If you need a boost, then ask for that. But don't come here with this "Liberal my-situation-sucks-so-yours-should-too" attitude.

Because nerfs can never be used as a function of balancing, right?

[Thundernuts]

We agree, you have no argument.

Good thing you've come to a thread discussing PVE then.

I thought you weren't familiar with the PVE side, now you act like you're familiar with all of the arguments. You are also free to actually rebut them instead of simply asserting that none of them are a "viable reason".

Congrats.

No but you do have a much more flat damage profile that makes healing easier in most situations, and the ability to instantly pad your health by a large margin when necessary. I would mention that neither is particularly useful in operations, but I already know you'd ignore that since you "don't care about the PVE side of things".

Because nerfs can never be used as a function of balancing, right?

 

1. Don't need an argument as this whole thread is a straw man.

2. This is not a PVE thread, its a NERF: Guardian Tanks thread that is not limited to PVE

3. Regardless of my familiarity with the PVE side of things, which I do play, bringing a class down to make up for the failings in another class is asinine. It does no one any good.

4. Thank you

5. Every class has it's pros and cons. And Enure doesn't last, all of that health disappears. And those abilities are particularly useful in PVP. And you can't effect one without the other.

6. Nerfs can serve a function of balance, just not in this case. Nothing has been substantively pointed out that makes guardians OP.

 

So, if you need more mitigation, then ask for it. But just because you think your class sucks, that is no reason to nerf another class into the world of suck. How will nerfing Guardians make up for the shadow's inability to handle spike damage? Answer: IT WON'T

[TridusSWTOR]

I'm totally fine with nerfing guardians.

 

As long as they keep shadows exactly were they are. Since that is what they are asking for.

 

Title says it all, I don't see the words "buff shadows in there", I only see "nerf guardians".

 

I'm sure that solution will help out that terminate problem you guys are having.

[ArchangelLBC]

Not every person who is dealing with customers has to know about class balance issues. It is not surprising for them to not know at first, but this is no proof that they are not looking at it as we speak.

 

The responsibility of the community team is to bring issues brought up by the community to the attention of the combat team, and to then take those combat team responses and return them to us.

 

According to Kitru, at a meet and greet that took place several weeks after the Shadow Tank spikiness issue started being discussed a lot, the community team wasn't aware that this was an issue that was being brought up everywhere shadow tanks are discussed. If I recall correctly, they also explicitly said that they don't spend as much time on the class forums because they're well behaved.

 

Almost right on the six week mark after Kitru first started the "Fixing Shadow Tank Spikiness" thread, Eric told us that they were having a serious, in-depth discussion on the issue. This was the only time they have ever acknowledged it was an issue. It's now been exactly 6 weeks since that post with not so much as a peep out of the devs. If they have discussed it, then why don't they feel the need to at least acknowledge the fruits of that discussion. If they haven't discussed it, then they've made Eric a liar.

 

So that's 6 weeks for them to officially acknowledge, and at least 6 weeks without so no much as a peep on what, if anything, might be done. All this while the community managers can address cartel market concerns they day they're posted about. Now, in fairness to the community team, it seems that this indicates that the people in charge of the Cartel Market are much more concerned with customer satisfaction than the combat team.

 

Either way, we're getting understandably impatient.

 

THAT is why Guardians are saying (somewhat rarely as of late, you people agree more than you let on) that we have had it pretty damn bad pre 2.0. Pre 2.0 we had quite a bit of trouble on 94% of the content holding aggro, whereas Shadows have gimp survivability on the 4% of the content that Guardians never had any trouble with. THAT is why some in the guardian comminity are saying you don't have it as bad.

Understand the side of those you "oppose" before you decide that they are the enemy, often they have good points, and you may agree more than you realize if you take a quick look from their POV.

 

You know it's an interesting point you've made, and certainly much better put than others who bring up Guardian pre-2.0, but from my perspective the whole discussion is irrelevant. In both cases there was a glaring issue, regardless of whether or not work arounds were possible then or now. In both cases the class with the glaring issue brought that issue up a ton, and rightly so. In both cases they issue in question was ignored for far too long.

Indeed, given that Guardians have gone through this before they should be supporting us.

 

The inherent *nature* of your "Points" on this thread regarding *guardians* I think lend to discrediting the actual problem, especially since you are drawing attention *away* from said problem. The problem is not with the guardian's survivabilty or their (objectively inferior, even now) threat generation, the problem is with the shadows being a disproportionate(gimping) disadvantage in a few situations. Get back on that topic, if you're gonna whine to get attention, be rational about it. I am sure the devs deal with children enough at their homes.

 

The problem has been discussed ad nauseum. The devs don't seem to be interested in rational discourse on the actual issue. As such, the rules that would normally govern proper rational discussion no longer obtain.

 

I think we can all agree that they should have given you guys more detail by now. More so as everyone here are paying costumers. And I agree with class balance and that means bringing Shadows on par with guardians or perhaps bringing guardians down a notch. I think most Guardians are just asking not to be brought up time and time again for the soul reason of getting attention from the devs.

 

For what it's worth, I'd have preferred we were never forced to resort to this measure at all.

 

 

God, these whiny Shadows. Guardians are far from OP. In PVP, we have our advantages and our disadvantages. Vanguards have theirs as well as Shadows. I've played since beta and let me tell you, as far as PVP is concerned, we are finally balanced. We have great survivability and utility and sh*t dps. Our mobility is meh, we can get rooted and slowed repeatedly which pretty much neutralizes the class. That is called balance. L2P!!!!!!!

 

LOL Guardians have been the best PVP tank for as long as I can remember just because of all the cooldowns. I really wouldn't think you'd want to open that can of worms, considering the myriad issues that all shadows face in PVP, and it's about to arguably get worse with arenas. But yes this thread, and indeed this entire issue, is mostly a PVE concern.

 

The only people asking for nerfs on Shadows pre 2.0 was the PvP community. And you all really, really don't want to be like the PvP community.

 

Normally I'd agree with you. I'm usually hugely against serious nerf threads, and would prefer not to have to resort to a fake one. But here's the one thing you can say about the PVP whining. They got results. Reasonable discussion asking for considered buffs and addressing glaring issues have historically been ignored (anyone else remember the several hundred pages thread on buffing merc/commandos?). Nerf threads have historically had much more traction.

 

So yes, if it gets results, I'll be like the PVP community. This is the point to which they've driven me.

 

I'm totally fine with nerfing guardians.

 

As long as they keep shadows exactly were they are. Since that is what they are asking for.

 

Title says it all, I don't see the words "buff shadows in there", I only see "nerf guardians".

 

I'm sure that solution will help out that terminate problem you guys are having.

 

Still not interested in actually engaging in the discussion I see

[Thundernuts]

LOL Guardians have been the best PVP tank for as long as I can remember just because of all the cooldowns. I really wouldn't think you'd want to open that can of worms, considering the myriad issues that all shadows face in PVP, and it's about to arguably get worse with arenas. But yes this thread, and indeed this entire issue, is mostly a PVE concern.:

 

Pre 2.0, Shadow tanks were hands down the best PVP tanks in the game. But that's besides the point. My whole point is, this should not be a nerf thread, it should be a buff thread. Guardians are near perfect as far as tanking is concerned, although I would love a root/slow cleanse. We should be the benchmark for where tanks should perform. Nerfing us does nothing to improve the shadow tank. What we don't want is for all tanks to suck. We want all tanks to perform at their optimal capacity. This thread is counterproductive to that end.

[PifferPuff]

This is retarded... Is this ****-posting seriously still going on?! Like W.T.F??! I can't believe this thread is not dead yet? (*wishing I could "sage" my post at this point*)

 

So, have you guys really not figured it out yet? Lemme spell it out for you: BIOWARE..DOES..NOT..CARE..WHAT..YOU..ME..OR..ANY1..THINKS. *PERIOD* *EXCLAMATION POINT* *ONE* !!1!****!!

 

They rather invest their time adding a retarded-looking ewok companion (that has no business being in this game in the first place -- a Chevin has more business being a companion than a derp-tarded fuzzball) and its lame customizations in the CM, than to waste time on a fruitless (and non-profitable) endeavor such as 'class balancing'.

 

Let me put it to you another way (that's more thread topic relevant): Guardians are NOT going to get nerfed - so stop asking, inferring or implying that they are. Shadows will NEVER get buffed - so, again, stop asking. Not gonna happen. Never has. Never will. Wake up from your slumbering fantasies: dreams do not come true.

 

If you think there is a problem with Shadow/Assassins, maybe 'you' are the problem. And maybe the reason why the devs are so quiet about this is that they are waiting for the 'problem' to solve itself.

 

The official BioWare stance appears to be: S.T.F.U. or G.T.F.O. In other words, either re-roll a new class and learn to like it, or quit the game entirely. If their silence has lent any indication as to their poise (and I'm surprised it hasn't spoken volumes to the rest of you), it is that they don't want to hear our complaints, as they have no plans (present or future) to 'fix' or 'buff' Shadow tank spikiness. Complaints = problems for BW - and they lack the resources to solve this particular problem. IOW, they don't care. The only thing that will speak to them are subscriptions and cancellations: so, again, like it or leave it -- they are not forcing you to stay.

 

Really... Have these thoughts never once crossed your entitled minds? .. Even just a little? ...And maybe once they do, you might actually take a step back and see the larger picture: that there's more that just one very narrow tunnel-vision view on any one tiny insignificant matter.

 

 

tl;dr = Our class is dead, broken and useless -- time to move on. Less QQ and more PewPew.

[ArchangelLBC]

Pre 2.0, Shadow tanks were hands down the best PVP tanks in the game. But that's besides the point. My whole point is, this should not be a nerf thread, it should be a buff thread. Guardians are near perfect as far as tanking is concerned, although I would love a root/slow cleanse. We should be the benchmark for where tanks should perform. Nerfing us does nothing to improve the shadow tank. What we don't want is for all tanks to suck. We want all tanks to perform at their optimal capacity. This thread is counterproductive to that end.

 

We agreed with you. That's why we had three months of buff threads. That didn't work.

 

Also off topic, but I just can't resist, the only thing shadows were best at pre 2.0 in PVP was solo node guarding. In the actual furball you wanted a guardian.

 

This is retarded... Is this ****-posting seriously still going on?! Like W.T.F??! I can't believe this thread is not dead yet? (*wishing I could "sage" my post at this point*)

 

So, have you guys really not figured it out yet? Lemme spell it out for you: BIOWARE..DOES..NOT..CARE..WHAT..YOU..ME..OR..ANY1..THINKS. *PERIOD* *EXCLAMATION POINT* *ONE* !!1!****!!

 

They rather invest their time adding a retarded-looking ewok companion (that has no business being in this game in the first place -- a Chevin has more business being a companion than a derp-tarded fuzzball) and its lame customizations in the CM, than to waste time on a fruitless (and non-profitable) endeavor such as 'class balancing'.

 

Let me put it to you another way (that's more thread topic relevant): Guardians are NOT going to get nerfed - so stop asking, inferring or implying that they are. Shadows will NEVER get buffed - so, again, stop asking. Not gonna happen. Never has. Never will. Wake up from your slumbering fantasies: dreams do not come true.

 

If you think there is a problem with Shadow/Assassins, maybe 'you' are the problem. And maybe the reason why the devs are so quiet about this is that they are waiting for the 'problem' to solve itself.

 

The official BioWare stance appears to be: S.T.F.U. or G.T.F.O. In other words, either re-roll a new class and learn to like it, or quit the game entirely. If their silence has lent any indication as to their poise (and I'm surprised it hasn't spoken volumes to the rest of you), it is that they don't want to hear our complaints, as they have no plans (present or future) to 'fix' or 'buff' Shadow tank spikiness. Complaints = problems for BW - and they lack the resources to solve this particular problem. IOW, they don't care. The only thing that will speak to them are subscriptions and cancellations: so, again, like it or leave it -- they are not forcing you to stay.

 

Really... Have these thoughts never once crossed your entitled minds? .. Even just a little? ...And maybe once they do, you might actually take a step back and see the larger picture: that there's more that just one very narrow tunnel-vision view on any one tiny insignificant matter.

 

 

tl;dr = Our class is dead, broken and useless -- time to move on. Less QQ and more PewPew.

 

I am very confused by this post, but I personally see no reason to stop complaining. It's not that I actually think they're gonna listen. I'm probably more cynical than you are when it comes to the devs, but if there's one thing that is true of human nature, they'll eventually fix shadow just to get us to shut the hell up.

Edited August 14, 2013 by ArchangelLBC

[Thundernuts]

We agreed with you. That's why we had three months of buff threads. That didn't work.

 

Also off topic, but I just can't resist, the only thing shadows were best at pre 2.0 in PVP was solo node guarding. In the actual furball you wanted a guardian.

 

The solution to the buff thread not working, is not a nerf thread. All you are doing is mucking up the discussion. It took until the expansion for guardians to get the buffs we needed to become balanced.

 

Shadows have great survivability in PVP. Maybe not direct, but their tool box is full of tools to survive. I see Shadows and Guardians own in PVP. Vanguards, not so much. And as far as pre 2.0, they had the same survivability as guardians, but hit way harder. And since PVP is objective based, until 2.4, you want someone who can solo guard a node. Again, my posts are almost fully PVPcentric. If Shadows need a buff in PVE, then by God they should get it. Just quit throwing us under the bus.

[Dragonexadon]

I honestly doubt the developers are waiting on the perfect thread. Nothing new has been brought to the table for sometime. I really do think they are looking into it, even though it is taking longer than we all wish. And when they have something of real substance they will post it.

[ArchangelLBC]

The solution to the buff thread not working, is not a nerf thread. All you are doing is mucking up the discussion. It took until the expansion for guardians to get the buffs we needed to become balanced.

 

Shadows have great survivability in PVP. Maybe not direct, but their tool box is full of tools to survive. I see Shadows and Guardians own in PVP. Vanguards, not so much. And as far as pre 2.0, they had the same survivability as guardians, but hit way harder. And since PVP is objective based, until 2.4, you want someone who can solo guard a node. Again, my posts are almost fully PVPcentric. If Shadows need a buff in PVE, then by God they should get it. Just quit throwing us under the bus.

 

And waiting for the expansion was and should be unacceptable. The only thing we've ever really noticed that worked was nerf thread sadly =/ I'm all ears if you think something else will work. Maybe even these class rep thingies will work! I personally doubt it, but what the hell, might as well try right? Course we're still a month out from shadows getting to ask their questions.

 

The thing that lends huge survivability in PVP is armor and especially cooldowns. Shadows had good cooldowns in Resilience and somewhat deflection, along with a combat stealth, but, especially after the armor nerf, were kinda squishy otherwise, compared to guardians, and their main mitigation didn't work on the majority of damage in PVP. Guardians had a plethora of cooldowns and now have more, and still had pretty decent armor. Nature of the game. In an arena where burst is king, the tanks who work best taking spike damage will win out.

 

I honestly doubt the developers are waiting on the perfect thread. Nothing new has been brought to the table for sometime. I really do think they are looking into it, even though it is taking longer than we all wish. And when they have something of real substance they will post it.

 

LOL that's honestly the hell of the whole thing. I honestly don't think this will get much traction either, and certainly the other threads failed to really start any kind of dialogue.

 

Seriously though, if it takes them 6 weeks and they still don't have anything of substance, how can we expect them to make good on this whole class rep system. Shadow tank spikiness isn't the only class balance issue in the game.

[Ephesia]

So we've gone from "You have no idea what you are talking about" to "it's not the community managers' jobs to do their jobs and be abreast of community issues".

 

For an issue that has been discussed as long and as detailed as this has, with as much proof and suggestions as has been provided, they're taking their sweet time in getting back to us with anything more than a "we're looking into it". Hardly instills good faith.

 

A very good way to earn good faith I am sure is to spam forums about the same situation instead of consolidation (APAC Server Concerns thread, anyone?). And start threads that have nothing to do with solving your problems. Because I am sure all Shadow problems will be fixed once Guardians are nerfed. Because that analogy makes a lot of sense, apparently to some people.

 

It is not as if a lot of people who are criticizing this thread are unsympathetic to Shadow tank concerns. Many are simply annoyed that some people with some pretty destructive mindsets have decided that for attention they need to post something that actually serves nothing for their own problems, just to cause pointless drama here.

[Ephesia]

Some members of the Shadow community mindset is like:

 

Problem: APAC Servers are Empty

 

Solution: DEPOPULATE THE NA SERVERS!!!

 

[Snarkasms]

And some people have absolutely no understanding of the satire accompanying this thread.

 

For the last time: the crux of the thread is not that shadows want guardian nerfs; the crux of the thread is that shouting for nerfs seems to be the only way to get attention. Is it right? No. Is it ideal? No. Should this thread have been created? From my view, no. But is it a completely understandable progression to make? Sure, considering the shadow's past has been littered with nothing but calls for nerfs, with stunning results.

[wadecounty]

And some people have absolutely no understanding of the satire accompanying this thread.

 

For the last time: the crux of the thread is not that shadows want guardian nerfs; the crux of the thread is that shouting for nerfs seems to be the only way to get attention. Is it right? No. Is it ideal? No. Should this thread have been created? From my view, no. But is it a completely understandable progression to make? Sure, considering the shadow's past has been littered with nothing but calls for nerfs, with stunning results.

 

Everyone gets that this was the intention of the thread. They are mocking how foolish that intention is. The developers don't ignore people, they handle things in the manner they see fit, and are constantly working and planning on making changes. I would bet my life on it this thread isn't going to cause some dev to read it and go, "Gasp, that's it, now we must buff shadow tanks!"

 

So yeah, its a dumb thread, and people are dumb for continuing to bump it (including myself). There hasn't been much constructive discussion at all in the past couple pages.

[Zoom_VI]

There's nothing to argue. Im only addressing PVP. There is balance there and the classes are fine for the most part. I don't care about the PVE side of things as I hardly play it. So there may be imbalance there, I don't know. No one has given a real viable reason to nerf guardians. Nothing about them is OP, NOTHING. I've played one since head start and have always played it as a tank. We don't have true self heals, 3% and 8%(if using the vindicator set bonus) aren't self heals. We don't have stealth and we can't cleanse movement impairing effects unless we use our CC breaker. I loved the class then and I love the class now. There is no reason to nerf us. If you need a boost, then ask for that. But don't come here with this "Liberal my-situation-sucks-so-yours-should-too" attitude.

 

If guardians lack so much than why may I ask, have they been the number one pick for ranked teams since ranked began back in 1.3? Guardians are the only tank able to apply DR to teamates outside of standard tuant and guard (from guardian leap) they also can bubble their entire team with the guardianship talent, they also have the best gap closers (two leaps) and they can reset the cd on one of those. Guardians have a passive speed boost just from guard, and a free spamable AoE slow. Guardians also have better ST burst than VG and match shadows

 

Also since all their CDs apply to all the various types of incoming attacks, plus they rarely are completely out of CDs means guardians again pull out ahead of other tanks in PvP. The Endure pain CDs is one of the best self heals in-game easily outdoing the tickling heals from TKT or the less than effective 3 min cd that is adrenaline rush.

 

The only thing guardians are bad at is guarding nodes, which is a job that will always be relegated to a stealthers anyway.

 

PvP if anything is a bigger reason to nerf guardians

[Thundernuts]

If guardians lack so much than why may I ask, have they been the number one pick for ranked teams since ranked began back in 1.3? Never said Guardians were lacking. Just pointing out advantages that the other classes haveGuardians are the only tank able to apply DR to teamates outside of standard tuant and guard (from guardian leap) they also can bubble their entire team with the guardianship talent, they also have the best gap closers (two leaps) and they can reset the cd on one of those. Guardians have a passive speed boost just from guard, and a free spamable AoE slow. Guardians also have better ST burst than VG and match shadows

 

Also since all their CDs apply to all the various types of incoming attacks, plus they rarely are completely out of CDs means guardians again pull out ahead of other tanks in PvP. The Endure pain CDs is one of the best self heals in-game easily outdoing the tickling heals from TKT or the less than effective 3 min cd that is adrenaline rush.

 

The only thing guardians are bad at is guarding nodes, which is a job that will always be relegated to a stealthers anyway.

 

PvP if anything is a bigger reason to nerf guardians

 

If you would have read my other posts you would know I think Guardians are awesome. As far as where a tank should be, we are the benchmark. We are not OP, we are right where we should be. No one has given a valid reason to nerf guardians. All I hear is "My class sucks, so make this other class suck too". It's almost like everyone who plays a shadow votes Democrat.

[Dragonexadon]

I. The Endure pain CDs is one of the best self heals in-game easily outdoing the tickling heals from TKT or the less than effective 3 min cd that is adrenaline rush.

Just FYI Endure Pain is not a self heal. It increases your health for a specific amount of time, when the effect wears off so does the health.

[Zoom_VI]

Just FYI Endure Pain is not a self heal. It increases your health for a specific amount of time, when the effect wears off so does the health.

 

Yes but it provides the healer a generous amount of time to boost the tank back up, it's also superb for scrounging up enough time to cross the goal or stop a cap, the respective heals for the other tanks do not even come close in such regards

[Dragonexadon]

Yes but it provides the healer a generous amount of time to boost the tank back up, it's also superb for scrounging up enough time to cross the goal or stop a cap, the respective heals for the other tanks do not even come close in such regards

 

I agree it's a great ability, but wanted to be clear at what it does. Saying it is "self heal" assumes we are healed up to that amount, which is not true.

[ArchangelLBC]

Everyone gets that this was the intention of the thread. They are mocking how foolish that intention is. The developers don't ignore people, they handle things in the manner they see fit, and are constantly working and planning on making changes. I would bet my life on it this thread isn't going to cause some dev to read it and go, "Gasp, that's it, now we must buff shadow tanks!"

 

So yeah, its a dumb thread, and people are dumb for continuing to bump it (including myself). There hasn't been much constructive discussion at all in the past couple pages.

 

The devs DO ignore people. It's been their MO for awhile. That's why we can pretty confidently say that almost two months went by without them even knowing shadow tank spikiness was a thing. Nerf threads have historically gotten responses in actual action being taken and that's actually pretty deplorable that bad forum behavior is what consistently gets the devs to pay attention.

 

If this is how they see fit to do things then they are awful at their jobs, and this one issue isn't the only indication that they are awful at their jobs.

 

No one is under the impression that they should, or will, nerf guardians. I'm not even sure anyone is under the impression they'll see this thread at all. At this point, we can probably all just admit that this thread is an outlet to vent our frustrations. They aren't gonna see it anyway, and nothing vents frustration like picking a fight with someone who might actually fight back, whereas calling the devs the worthless incompetents they are seems to get no response at all.

[ScarletBlaze]

I find it interesting that just because my class (Shadow) needs fixing we have now decided to scream and yell for them to Nerf Guardians. Why? Because you want to scream and yell to get the dev's attention so you start acting like little children and attacking a class that has nothing to do with the dev's response.

 

I am ashamed at how the Shadows are acting. I love my shadow but at the moment I don't not like the way the class is behaving toward another class.

[KhorneFlakesMilk]

Hmmm, this makes perfect sense.

 

Providing all of this evidence to nerf a class, when in actuality you could be using it to get a buff.

 

:eek:

 

I mean, call me crazy, but i think i might be going somewhere with this...

[Ancaglon]

The evidence for buffing shadow/assassin spike damage reduction had been stated over and over without any response from the Bioware. They only promised to look at the problem (about 6 weeks ago?) after Leafy_bug spammed it all over the forums.

 

Rational discussion doesn't seem to register with Bioware at all, so tantrums are clearly the way to get results -- it worked for the PVP crowd that got shadows nerfed (for PVE as well as PVP) in the first place, so we're just adopting tactics that do.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Ancaglon

[JMacneish]

nerf this nerf that nerf the other I read this **** for every class for pvp and pve and its fracking annoying NOW while some complaints are justified in most cases its people just upset that X class doesn't play the way that person wants

 

and in this threads case id say take a look at the group the tank is with im betting its decent bunch of people and using the correct stat balance after all tanking is NOT about high health though it helps

[ArenCordial]

The evidence for buffing shadow/assassin spike damage reduction had been stated over and over without any response from the Bioware. They only promised to look at the problem (about 6 weeks ago?) after Leafy_bug spammed it all over the forums.

 

Rational discussion doesn't seem to register with Bioware at all, so tantrums are clearly the way to get results -- it worked for the PVP crowd that got shadows nerfed (for PVE as well as PVP) in the first place, so we're just adopting tactics that do.

 

And how does this call for nerfs help your class preform better? I should think that considering how BioWare's track record in regards to nerfs that you shouldn't want to nerf any of the classes unless the can solo tank whole NiM ops, because quite simply they can't get them right. They don't just nerf a class to being in line with its peers. They flat out take that class and flat out reduce their viability. You Shadows should understand that, Vanguard DPS should understand that.

 

We want to bring you guys up, but spreading around this hate quiet frankly should be beneath you and can alienate those who actually would otherwise be on your side.