The State of PvP

[mulzii]

Sages and Sorcs also needs a tuning aswell

 

i think healing in general should be baselined to where the sorcs/sages are now. Bring commandos up to that level, drop OPs down to that level, etc. Its tough to 1v1 a sorc, but 1 dps can neutralize a sorc's healing without killing them, forcing the sorc to run/only heal themselves. its also possible to kill them outright 1v1, eventually, with timely interupts and/or them running out of force. 2+ dps focusing a sage/sorc results in a dead sorc most of the time, or at least a sorc on the run and useless to their team.

 

Now fighting the op 1v1 is ridiculus. One DPS is a gnat to an OP, who can just ignore that dps and still heal the their team. 2 dps can force the op to kite a bit and heal themselves, but they can still heal their team outright. nothing to interupt, too many cc/s and def skills,e tc. 3+ dps can be an issue, but with the aoe cc, vanish, roll and other cc's, they can kite and still heal their team until the dps is peeled off.

 

The biggest issue with OPs no one seems to mention, aside from energy management, is TA generation. I can HoT the entire team, which in turn results in constant auto-TA generation and keeps my TA stacks full at all times, letting me spam instant heals as needed while kiting. So even when focused by 3+ dps, i can keep my entire team up with hots/instant heals and use my almost infinite supply of energy for rolling/kiting/hots/touch-up-heals.

[Aristore]

PvP is fine. PvP is fun. If you're complaining it's probably because you're losing, which means you'll only stop complaining once you start winning.I gather from the fact that you would rather QQ about losing than try to improve and start winning shows that you'll only be happy when your main is buffed and everyone else gets nerfed into creamy dust, allowing you to taste winning. This is not going to happen. I would try to stop QQing if I were you.

 

No game is perfect. No game is perfectly balanced. Do you really want to live in a Star World where all classes have the same dps/healing/tanking capabilities? Where every damage record for every class is 2.35 million across the board? Picture endless perfectly even warzones filled with easily interchangeable team structures, none better than the last. Soon all outfits blend, leaving a single, balanced, endless entity. And there will finally be peace in the Galaxy. All because someone QQed a little because they were losing, and not winning.

[Atramar]

i think healing in general should be baselined to where the sorcs/sages are now. Bring commandos up to that level, drop OPs down to that level, etc. Its tough to 1v1 a sorc, but 1 dps can neutralize a sorc's healing without killing them, forcing the sorc to run/only heal themselves. its also possible to kill them outright 1v1, eventually, with timely interupts and/or them running out of force. 2+ dps focusing a sage/sorc results in a dead sorc most of the time, or at least a sorc on the run and useless to their team.

 

Now fighting the op 1v1 is ridiculus. One DPS is a gnat to an OP, who can just ignore that dps and still heal the their team. 2 dps can force the op to kite a bit and heal themselves, but they can still heal their team outright. nothing to interupt, too many cc/s and def skills,e tc. 3+ dps can be an issue, but with the aoe cc, vanish, roll and other cc's, they can kite and still heal their team until the dps is peeled off.

 

The biggest issue with OPs no one seems to mention, aside from energy management, is TA generation. I can HoT the entire team, which in turn results in constant auto-TA generation and keeps my TA stacks full at all times, letting me spam instant heals as needed while kiting. So even when focused by 3+ dps, i can keep my entire team up with hots/instant heals and use my almost infinite supply of energy for rolling/kiting/hots/touch-up-heals.

 

they changed TA, no matter how many people you tag with HoTs, it wont generate more often then 9 seconds each. pre 2.0 I could hot team (half way due to probe costed more then now)and have TA's drop on me like a charm, now no matter how many hots you place, they generate on same 9 seconds rate.

 

I have no issues taking operative on my own when I do my assassin, I slow them, save my stuns and interrupts when he's under 30%, and they drop like very one else. and I've been witness to a pair of marauder+sniper who were dropping my operative healer like a charm, once I'm 30%, both used execute, and boom, dead. same marauder could keep me very busy on his own, not to kill, but very busy.

most players are half way clueless on their optimal rotation and never bothered to learn how other classes work, they preffer to whine and cry.

[Dragores]

once I'm 30%, both used execute, and boom, dead. same marauder could keep me very busy on his own, not to kill, but very busy.

most players are half way clueless on their optimal rotation and never bothered to learn how other classes work, they preffer to whine and cry.

 

This is absolutely true. Killing a healer is not everything, keeping them busy will do the job just as fine.

[Vaerah]

I'ts noting personal, about assassins guarding, even if they got buffed thro the roof, they would still be guarding nodes. Cause of stealth you can stall enemies for longer period of time instead of facetanking them like 2 others have.

 

This only because everyone else in the WZ want to believe you are tank spec. Only a minority are doing that though.

 

The norm is:

 

- sit at node till boredom causes tears

- watch your 4 "defender" medals while EVERYONE ELSE are having fun and 8-12 medals.

- lose attention a bit, because 5 minutes staring at a pylon is not exactly what made you love Star Wars epic sagas.

- the other guy presses improved stealth and WILL find and get the opener on you. Because BW in their wisdom have greatly limited the good spots where to be and look for incoming hostiles from a distance.

- before you typed "g1" to call incoming you are at half health already. As non tank spec shadow / sin, survivability is not your strong thing.

- if you removed opener stun, now you are stunned (for longer) again and eating another 15k damage. If you did not, you lose 12k+ in the opener (SS + 1-2 other skills) even in conqueror gear. So you are crippled.

 

Result: 10-15 seconds survival even using some cooldowns and this in the fortunate case the attacker is just 1.

 

Nobody will care to come, they are too busy farming at middle. But even if they'd bother to come help, they'll arrive just in time to see the node capped in their face.

 

Of course if the attacker was bad and bad geared the above does not apply, but since when classes are balanced to perform well only against low geared, bad players?

Edited July 23, 2013 by Vaerah

[AlrikFassbauer]

The norm is:

 

- sit at node till boredom causes tears

- watch your 4 "defender" medals while EVERYONE ELSE are having fun and 8-12 medals.

- lose attention a bit, because 5 minutes staring at a pylon is not exactly what made you love Star Wars epic sagas.

- the other guy presses improved stealth and WILL find and get the opener on you. Because BW in their wisdom have greatly limited the good spots where to be and look for incoming hostiles from a distance.

- before you typed "g1" to call incoming you are at half health already. As non tank spec shadow / sin, survivability is not your strong thing.

- if you removed opener stun, now you are stunned (for longer) again and eating another 15k damage. If you did not, you lose 12k+ in the opener (SS + 1-2 other skills) even in conqueror gear. So you are crippled.

 

Result: 10-15 seconds survival even using some cooldowns and this in the fortunate case the attacker is just 1.

 

Nobody will care to come, they are too busy farming at middle. But even if they'd bother to come help, they'll arrive just in time to see the node capped in their face.

 

A bit cynical, but right, yes, this is how I see it as well.

[Tezeretz]

Guard from tanks is not the problem. Tanks taking that much extra damage fall just as fast as anyone else.

 

 

The problem is still how overpowered the healers are. if a healer can keep himself and his tank alive while 4 dps classes beat on them...the problem is the heals need a nerf. At most a tank and healer should stall there own deaths a bit. Not be unstoppable.

 

 

When my GF and i roll our tank/healer combo...we can easily hold our own against 4-5 people. And in all fairness...its not my guard that makes that possible. most of it comes from me stunning them long enough for her big heals. She is a Operative and i'll gladly admit its all her heals that keep us alive. Heals need the nerf, not guard.

 

When i guard any other class...it just means DPS kills us both super fast because i absorb half of there damage. its the heals that make me unstoppable.

[Atramar]

This only because everyone else in the WZ want to believe you are tank spec. Only a minority are doing that though.

 

The norm is:

 

- sit at node till boredom causes tears

- watch your 4 "defender" medals while EVERYONE ELSE are having fun and 8-12 medals.

- lose attention a bit, because 5 minutes staring at a pylon is not exactly what made you love Star Wars epic sagas.

- the other guy presses improved stealth and WILL find and get the opener on you. Because BW in their wisdom have greatly limited the good spots where to be and look for incoming hostiles from a distance.

- before you typed "g1" to call incoming you are at half health already. As non tank spec shadow / sin, survivability is not your strong thing.

- if you removed opener stun, now you are stunned (for longer) again and eating another 15k damage. If you did not, you lose 12k+ in the opener (SS + 1-2 other skills) even in conqueror gear. So you are crippled.

 

Result: 10-15 seconds survival even using some cooldowns and this in the fortunate case the attacker is just 1.

 

Nobody will care to come, they are too busy farming at middle. But even if they'd bother to come help, they'll arrive just in time to see the node capped in their face.

 

Of course if the attacker was bad and bad geared the above does not apply, but since when classes are balanced to perform well only against low geared, bad players?

 

defending gives atleast 6 medals during normal peroid of time + atleast 2 medals if it actually gets attacked.

there are plenty of good spots where no one ever found me which I won't share since I preffer to keep it that way

as stealth you can re-stealth and run away, then sap enemy

you have def cooldowns+wz medpack+wz adrenal to help you staying alive

you have teleport. use it.

 

my dps sin with evasive manouvers (or just kill that one person who dare to try their way on a node) can defend longer then my PT tank facetanking (ofc PT tank can kite more while interrupting), my jugg tank on other hand can facetank for hell long amount of time, but he can get sap capped if note carefull. sins are best node guardians if have good awarness.

 

Guard from tanks is not the problem. Tanks taking that much extra damage fall just as fast as anyone else.

 

 

The problem is still how overpowered the healers are. if a healer can keep himself and his tank alive while 4 dps classes beat on them...the problem is the heals need a nerf. At most a tank and healer should stall there own deaths a bit. Not be unstoppable.

 

 

When my GF and i roll our tank/healer combo...we can easily hold our own against 4-5 people. And in all fairness...its not my guard that makes that possible. most of it comes from me stunning them long enough for her big heals. She is a Operative and i'll gladly admit its all her heals that keep us alive. Heals need the nerf, not guard.

 

When i guard any other class...it just means DPS kills us both super fast because i absorb half of there damage. its the heals that make me unstoppable.

 

if they are attacking tank instead of focus healer, then it's their own fault. I've seen this, my tank solo held 4 enemies from capping for over a minute, simply cause only 2 tried to kill me, 2 tried to cap instead of helping their team mates..

Edited July 23, 2013 by Atramar

[DarthOvertone]

Lies and Deception!

[MedinHolliday]

Amusing. People still don't see it. It's like someone used some form of concealment.

[Ottoattack]

The only heals that need a tune are Operative/Scoundrel. Anyone who thinks otherwise obviously plays one

 

None of the heal classes need tune down because that impacts PvE. However, all healing classes are ahead of dps in terms of output. So what needs to happen is debuff. I agree ops healer need a look at their suvivability.

 

BTW, all healing classes where buffed in the expansion, way much more than most dps classes.

[Cretinus]

if they are attacking tank instead of focus healer, then it's their own fault. I've seen this, my tank solo held 4 enemies from capping for over a minute, simply cause only 2 tried to kill me, 2 tried to cap instead of helping their team mates..

 

If they focus healer instead of attacking tank then it's their own fault too. Cause then tank will guard healer and spam-stun them so that healer can heal himself whenever required.

Resuming: 4 people will have a huge problem fighting a tank + healer combo. Actually, even 5 people will have that problem.

And this is what is making PvP in this game boring and pointless.

Everybody (with exception of healers and tanks, of course) is complaining massively about this, but BW doesn't seem to be able to address this issue. Or perhaps they simply don't want to address it, I don't know.

 

I'm finding myself playing less and less WZs and whenever Voidstar pops up, I'll quit immediately. Cause this one is the absolute abberation of this tank/heal/guard bs where none reaches a single objective, every team produces tons of dmg, but nobody ever dies.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Cretinus

[TheOneWag]

claims that PvP is working as intended

 

It is. The "madness" is intended. My god, do you people not understand this? The endless cycle of buff, nerf, FOTM, imbalance, etc...is all intentional.

 

WoW has been out for years and is still tweaking skills and mechanics. You think adding a small handful of new abilities each expansion means that EVERY CLASS must constantly undergo massive dynamic balance passes?

 

Better question: Are you still subbing? Yes? Then mission accomplished.

 

You're subbing up, playing, waiting for your class to get buffed - or better, you're rolling the new FOTM. When the FOTM changes, you keep paying and keep rerolling.

 

Either way, it's about money. It has always been about money. It will always be about money. Imbalance = money. The rollercoaster is intentional because it keeps people playing, and more importantly PAYING.

[Vaerah]

defending gives atleast 6 medals during normal peroid of time + atleast 2 medals if it actually gets attacked.

there are plenty of good spots where no one ever found me which I won't share since I preffer to keep it that way

as stealth you can re-stealth and run away, then sap enemy

you have def cooldowns+wz medpack+wz adrenal to help you staying alive

you have teleport. use it.

 

I rarely get attacked as both teams love to just cap 1 node at start and then sit at middle till the end.

I get 10-12 medals with moderate effort if I go farm middle so it's still half reward to sit bored at a node vs actually playing.

 

As for having restealth and def CDs... so does the other guy and he's the one who may easily get the surprise attack since he can just engage improved stealth and go find me while I can't know when he's coming so I don't have engaged my own improved stealth. Of course the noobs who come in "regular" stealth I see them "blinking" and I immediately press my improved stealth (yeah I forgot the name) and usually gank them myself. But noobs don't tend to go solo and try a node, they prefer staying with the pack, at the middle, so those who come are often better prepared guys.

 

sins are best node guardians if have good awarness.

 

Does not help that after hundreds if not thousands nodes guarded, I came to HATE node watching.

I come from other MMOs where I always played caster, I wanted some "close, packed action" and what I get is a bag of fail "team role".

[TheOneWag]

I wanted some "close, packed action"

 

Shoulda rolled smashmonkey brah

[Vaerah]

It is. The "madness" is intended. My god, do you people not understand this? The endless cycle of buff, nerf, FOTM, imbalance, etc...is all intentional.

 

WoW has been out for years and is still tweaking skills and mechanics. You think adding a small handful of new abilities each expansion means that EVERY CLASS must constantly undergo massive dynamic balance passes?

 

Better question: Are you still subbing? Yes? Then mission accomplished.

 

You're subbing up, playing, waiting for your class to get buffed - or better, you're rolling the new FOTM. When the FOTM changes, you keep paying and keep rerolling.

 

Either way, it's about money. It has always been about money. It will always be about money. Imbalance = money. The rollercoaster is intentional because it keeps people playing, and more importantly PAYING.

 

I had 3 WoW subs, I terminated them all, mission failed.

I had 1 SWTOR account, I unsubbed once already and nothing stops me doing it again and BW won't get a nickel. Mission failed again.

I am no one's puppet, EITHER they make the class(es) I play competitive OR I stop paying them. Simple as that.

[Anosa]

I think tanks need reworked thats about it.

[Diefexor]

I think for most of the dps classes, 2.0 destroyed any kind of uniqueness a class could have with its build and/or using Hybrids.

 

My Assassin now only really has one viable build - ONE! And now, thanks to the huge nerfs, are mostly used to guard nodes.

 

Balance is a hard thing to come by, considering how some people have the right gear and some dont. Until everyone is on a level playing field (in other words remove expertise), PvP will always be a stunfest mess. With the introduction of stupid Arenas, 4v4 stun fests will probably become unbearable.

 

rofl *** are you talking about? I nuke people on my assassin..... There are plenty of viable builds. Go to the assassin forum and find the Madness/deception build. Has good AoE and keeps hard hitting maul. There is your hybrid.

 

Now to the topic

QQ thread QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ

 

MMO players have to be the biggest cry babies ever. Maybe its not the games fault there is a balance issue. Bioware can not balance people inability to play the game at a high enough level to compete.

 

Love this Trophy for everybody generation. Wimps.

[Zoom_VI]

"Transfers dmg to tank" is what I meant with "absorbs." I wrote "absorbs" because that's what it does from the point of view of the guarded player. But I agree, it's confusing. I've edited my post.

 

Yes exactly guard mitigates ZERO damage, its just sent to the tank, where its supposed mitigated somewhat by the tank (guards been bugged in that regard since launch don't think its been fixed yet). The healer still has to heal all the damage its just spread across two instead of one.

The problem with op heals and tank is that will the continual HoTs that the op has on both the shared damage aspect is nullified because both are receiving heals at the same time. With sage and partiulary mandos the healer is less able to heal both himself and his tank together and is forced to keep swapping whose receiving heals. In a focus fire situation this will eventually mean that the healer will become overwhelmed.

Guard wouldn't be a problem if operative scoundrels where not able to heal everyone simultaneously. Not to mention nerfing guard to spite operative completely screws over mando healers and to a lesser extent sages.

 

If you don't believe me to try and find any QQ thread about tanks prior to 2.0