Sage in PVP situations - Insta-dead

[Jurzey]

So, I recently hit 55 and have never run a warzone. There is so much other stuff to do in the game I didn't bother. So I have been playing the game in easy mode against stupid simple mindless mobs and dominating. I upped my gear to be pretty good but I have not gotten too involved in hard modes yet because I was working on another toon.

 

Last night I decided to look for droid parts in outlaws den with my Sentinel Friend. I have made many trips to OD before and never once seen anyone there. This time, I didn't see them until it was too late. Two sith appeared from nowhere and within seconds I was dead. I was hoping maybe they were just passing through and went in again. Didn't make it 3 feet past the gate before a single sith dropped me and my friend again. On the third try we got deep into the area and were being vigilant. We saw them coming and got ready. Then died.

 

I am certain this is my fault. I felt completely helpless and since I am PvE Sage specced I don't feel like I have any way to protect myself. Every heal outside of instants was interrupted. They completely ignored the sentinel both times and dropped me first (which makes a lot of sense) and I felt bad for him.

 

The point of this post is not to ***** though, it is to ask for help. I do not want to spec for PVP, but I do want to know how to survive. I searched for this topic but didn't find it.

 

How do I survive the rare PVP encounters I may have in the game as a Sage spec'd Consular?

 

Tactics for staying alive long enough to allow my friend to make a difference?

[Atramar]

basic tactic of war survival - don't go to war.

you can use your immortal bubble

if you want to survive in pvp area, get pvp gear and spec.

your ship is the safest place in the galaxy.

go exploring the Den with 6 other people, probably these 2 sins wont bother you

change instance.

 

hope that helps

[Raansu]

You need pvp gear simple as that. You get blown up because of the expertise stat.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I'm awaiting a "Pro's" response saying "L2P".

 

 

 

 

 

My personal experience was that of "Insta-Deatrh", too, however.

Especially in the lowest levels.

Edited July 12, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[Raansu]

I'm awaiting a "Pro's" response saying "L2P".

 

 

 

 

 

My personal experience was that of "Insta-Deatrh", too, however.

Especially in the lowest levels.

 

Honestly just ignore those people. It's not a L2P issue, it's like I said before. He most likely does not have pvp gear and the people that attacked him most likely do have pvp gear. Even if he was in full raid gear he would of still been blown up because of the expertise stat.

[KamujinKravshera]

So, I recently hit 55 and have never run a warzone. There is so much other stuff to do in the game I didn't bother. So I have been playing the game in easy mode against stupid simple mindless mobs and dominating. I upped my gear to be pretty good but I have not gotten too involved in hard modes yet because I was working on another toon.

 

Last night I decided to look for droid parts in outlaws den with my Sentinel Friend. I have made many trips to OD before and never once seen anyone there. This time, I didn't see them until it was too late. Two sith appeared from nowhere and within seconds I was dead. I was hoping maybe they were just passing through and went in again. Didn't make it 3 feet past the gate before a single sith dropped me and my friend again. On the third try we got deep into the area and were being vigilant. We saw them coming and got ready. Then died.

 

I am certain this is my fault. I felt completely helpless and since I am PvE Sage specced I don't feel like I have any way to protect myself. Every heal outside of instants was interrupted. They completely ignored the sentinel both times and dropped me first (which makes a lot of sense) and I felt bad for him.

 

The point of this post is not to ***** though, it is to ask for help. I do not want to spec for PVP, but I do want to know how to survive. I searched for this topic but didn't find it.

 

How do I survive the rare PVP encounters I may have in the game as a Sage spec'd Consular?

 

Tactics for staying alive long enough to allow my friend to make a difference?

 

In world PvP, a solo healing sage is basically a free kill. If you're with a group of friends, however, you are significant force multiplier. This is what it means to be a support class. You make other people stronger.

 

That said, if you are better than your opponent, you can outplay them solo and win. This requires that you have the right gear and enough experience to know and execute the right counters at the right time.

 

Step 1) Get PvP gear. There is no bolster in world PvP. You MUST use PvP gear there.

Step 2) PVP more. Your PvE skills are not enough. You need to learn how people fight. It's much different than the AI.

Step 3) Duel people. You will lose. The better you get, the longer it will take you to lose. However, if you can survive long enough, your friend would have been able to kill of one of the sins, putting you in a 2v1 against them. Dueling people will also make you calmer when you fight. Time will slow down and you won't panic.

Step 4) Learn how other classes work. Every class works a little different. Once you learn how your opponent's class works, you will know what hurts and frustrates them. They are trying to create a situation that is optimal for their chances of victory. Just knowing what they are playing towards will help you deny them that scenario.

Edited July 12, 2013 by KamujinKravshera

[Shakhaar]

It's nice that you ask for help instead of going "omg Sins are OP!!!".

 

Sages are not bad in PvP in general, but there isn't really that much you can do against two Assasins - the class is one of the most bursty classes there is, and as you noticed even one is capable of wrecking you quickly. In a 1v1 scenario you are disadvantaged as your class is mainly centered around not being in melee range and having sentinels/guardians/shadows or just a large distance inbetween you and the enemy in PvP.

 

This doesn't work with Assasins since stealth practically guarantees that they get to open up on you, and hence start in melee range.

 

Concerning Sage PvP skill selection and gear, it might be best to check your respective Advanced class forum, these usually have several guides on what spec is viable for what.

[Razamatazz]

Yeah, sounds like the people you were attacked by were knowledgeable about PvP based off of how they targeted your first and were making sure to interrupt all heals, not advanced tactics by any means, but shows some knowledge/experience with PvP here. This also means they were likely wearing PvP gear with the aforementioned expertise stat. While bolster gives you some expertise to give you the ability to compete in WZ's in PvE gear you have none outside of a WZ, if someone in Partisan gear finds you with PvE gear on and no expertise your toast unless they don't do much more than drool on their keyboard. The increase in damage output vs other players and the reduction in incoming damage is going to make victory for you nigh impossible, even in 72's.

 

One option is to only go into OD with a large group, as previously suggested, or get some PvP gear to give you a chance to compete, even with the PvP gear though, good luck, as if you're not too experienced you're still likely to lose even if your on equal terms with regards to gear. Another tactic might be sending a stealther in to scout the area, tail them if you find them and avoid them. Maybe ask on fleet for a hand, nothing ruins a gankers day like thinking they've found some easy prey just to realize they prey just led them into a trap, and now they're being ganked with no hope of victory (this can also cause some serious nerd rage on the gankers end ).

 

All that being said, savor the challenge that OWPvP brings, facing that challenge and coming up with ways to overcome it will make you a much better player.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Razamatazz

[Kovaos]

Sorry, but without expertise you're useless against someone with expertise.

 

That's how you survive. Then you ask yourself, "How do I kill someone?" Well, good sir, the answer is you need expertise gear.

 

So to survive you will need expertise gear. To kill someone you will need expertise gear.

[Jurzey]

I'll first address the L2P comments.... That is EXACTLY why I posted this. So I can L2P =)

 

I appreciate the people who are offering advice. From what I am reading, I am screwed without proper PVP gear. Honestly I was hoping there would be some lethal combo that I just haven't figured out on my own to keep them from constantly interrupting.

 

As for the guys who ganked me, they really were brilliant in their tactics from my perspective. This is a game and PVP is part of it. Nothing to be upset about. I am generally a FPS guy so I know what it's like to be on the other side running around destroying everyone I see. I just haven't figured that out here.

 

Time to gear up and bring friends. I didn't find out last night until I gave up that I had 3 other 55's just idling on fleet that would have joined me. Tables would have turned a bit.

[Rendolphe]

I understand your problem OP. There is few reasons why you get instant kill and few tips you should use in Open PVP situation.

 

Please take a look at this I'll show how to survive easily and even troll dance when it's needed.

 

 

1) You don't had PvP Gear. The expertise is much more important since 2.0 than ever. They boost it and guys in PvE gear in Open PvP are getting rape without lubricant.

 

2) You need something to kite and LOS. A tree, a rock, a tent or anything but you can't fight in the desert wide open. Especially against Mara.

 

3) I suggest you to buy Field respec so you can adapt your tree more PvP wise in theses situations. I can respec in 30 sec with all the skill in place between round in voidstar from DPS to healer, so you can do it in the spaceport in a minute.

 

4) When you go out like this, try to have few Seismic Grenade. It's an AOE Stun that can save your life. I usually use after I get my Force Barrier. Check on the GTN and buy a stack of 10 at least.

 

5) Use your PvE adrenals and Heroic moment if you get companion.

 

6) Try to attack first. Get one of them CC. Ask you Sentinel to charge them and fear. If one of them break try to force lift this one so he get 8 sec out of combat.

 

7) Watch my video and subscribe if you like it

Edited July 12, 2013 by Rendolphe

[Endel]

If you have not played PvP before then no matter what gear you will have, you will be utterly destroyed by experienced PvP players.

 

Not sure why some people post with irony "i'm waiting for the first L2P comment" as this is exactly that issue. You must learn to play in PvP environment which is totally different to the same scenarios in PvE. Do you mouse click? If the answer is yes, then this is the first thing you have to learn for PvP - bind your skills and use keys instead of mouse clicking.

In PvP every situation is different and you need to know, more or less skills of other classes to know what to do.

Most of your skills should be at your disposal withing fractions of seconds (so no mouse clicking). It's a much faster paced game than PvE and as i said, every time the scenario of the fight would be different.

 

Jump into warzones from time to time as they will prepare for PvP much better than OD on Tatooine will.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Endel

[AlrikFassbauer]

In world PvP, a solo healing sage is basically a free kill. If you're with a group of friends, however, you are significant force multiplier. This is what it means to be a support class. You make other people stronger.

 

That's right.

 

And that's why you are more or less toast when without friends or at least anyone protecting you.

 

The ideal combo is that of a tank plus a healer - or a DD and a healer.

 

Sorry, but without expertise you're useless against someone with expertise.

 

That's how you survive. Then you ask yourself, "How do I kill someone?" Well, good sir, the answer is you need expertise gear.

 

So to survive you will need expertise gear. To kill someone you will need expertise gear.

 

And you get Expertise gear by dying ... And getting Commendations because of that ... (At least in War Zones.)

Edited July 12, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[Andov]

As for your interrupted heals problem, just pop Mental Alacrity (interrupt free for 10s + 20% alacrity).

 

Don't forget your Force Barrier offers up to 10s of full immunity.

[Jurzey]

Interesting tactics in that video. I still consider myself very new to this game and completely new to PVP, so understanding all of the classes is a must. I have not even started an Imp toon so I am clueless as to what they can do. When I look at my skills, I don't know what would be effective in PVP and what wouldn't.

 

I have force snap - just to interrupt

Stun - Obvious use

Force Wave - Which can get people off me and interrupt

Force Slow - so I can run away better.

Force Lift - Will this work or can it be broken?

 

Should I even bother with damage? Or just try to keep myself alive until I can be rescued?

 

I do in fact click anything outside my most used spells. Obviously I can switch enemies with tab, but then getting back to my own team I have not mastered. I have at least 20 useful things to click on, where do you bind them all? I am used to FPS where you have no more than 5 weapons and everyone is really evenly matched.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Not sure why some people post with irony "i'm waiting for the first L2P comment" as this is exactly that issue.

 

The point is, that it often happens when Newbies come here, complain, and ask for advices,

THEN some almost anonymous comes in, drops "L2P" like a Dagger in the Dark, thrusted into the back of the unsuspicious Newbie, and vanishes back into the darkness again,

NO explanations given, no tips, no advices, nothing. ONLY this tiny remark : "L2P".

 

It is a special kind of mocking, of laughing over a Newbie, just to say "L2P" and nothing else.

It's also a way to state one's superiority : Saying "L2P" and nothing else (no tips, no advices, no explanations, nothing at all) is = "I'm better than you".

 

And that's what I don't like.

Edited July 12, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[Jurzey]

Funny, I had never felt the need to use mental alacrity or force barrier in PVE.

 

They aren't even in my main bars.

 

I have so much to learn and appreciate your help. Keep the good stuff coming.

[Endel]

The point is, that it often happens when Newbies come here, complain, and ask for advices,

THEN some almost anonymous comes in, drops "L2P" like a Dagger in the Dark, thrusted into the back of the unsuspicious Newbie, and vanishes back into the darkness again,

NO explanations given, no tips, no advices, nothing. ONLY this tiny remark : "L2P".

 

It is a special kind of mocking, of laughing over a Newbie, just to say "L2P" and nothing else.

It's also a way to state one's superiority : Saying "L2P" and nothing else (no tips, no advices, no explanations, nothing at all) is = "I'm better than you".

 

And that's what I don't like.

 

Fair points. If it's just "L2P" comment then i completely agree

Edited July 12, 2013 by Endel

[Atramar]

Interesting tactics in that video. I still consider myself very new to this game and completely new to PVP, so understanding all of the classes is a must. I have not even started an Imp toon so I am clueless as to what they can do. When I look at my skills, I don't know what would be effective in PVP and what wouldn't.

 

I have force snap - just to interrupt

Stun - Obvious use

Force Wave - Which can get people off me and interrupt

Force Slow - so I can run away better.

Force Lift - Will this work or can it be broken?

 

Should I even bother with damage? Or just try to keep myself alive until I can be rescued?

 

I do in fact click anything outside my most used spells. Obviously I can switch enemies with tab, but then getting back to my own team I have not mastered. I have at least 20 useful things to click on, where do you bind them all? I am used to FPS where you have no more than 5 weapons and everyone is really evenly matched.

 

force lift works for 8 seconds on player and will break on damage.

if you are healer, don't bother with damage, just with crowd control (like slow them + sprint other way, force way (spec that for root if you can).

If you are damage specced, all you can do is make more damage and kite him (unless you break Line of Sight -LoS- then you can heal while he comes at you), you won't out heal dps (unless he is baaaad - but then you should out dps him) - if you want to heal, force lift + heal your self (and move away in betweens).

you can unlock total 6 skill bars, in settings and gui manager.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Atramar

[Wainamoinen]

immediate term: root and run (maybe talented force wave with roots, force speed). They're melee, you're ranged, if you're in melee range they'll eat you.

 

short term: if they hang about when you come back and you need to get to the area, try switching instance.

 

longer term: as people pointed out, if they're PvP-geared and experienced, you'll only match them by becoming the same. Lack of Expertise on gear in open-world will kill you on its own, before worrying about them interrupting your casts, etc. It doesn't actually take that many comms to get a set of Partisan gear, where you'd be at full Expertise and not far behind Conqueror in other stats. Try some warzones, and if someone says "L2P" just say "that's what I'm doing".

Edited July 12, 2013 by Wainamoinen

[Jurzey]

I have all 6 bars available, I generally use 4.

 

But only the first bar is hotkeyed. Where do you bind the rest of the commands to have them near at hand?

[Atramar]

I have all 6 bars available, I generally use 4.

 

But only the first bar is hotkeyed. Where do you bind the rest of the commands to have them near at hand?

 

settings, keybinds->toolbars

 

scrol down and bind.

[Ryluk_Shouja]

Unfortunately, there is not much you can do. With pvp gear you can get up to 60% bonus damage, and as soon as you enter into pvp combat your healing is nerfed by 30%...

 

If you don't want to get facerolled the only real solutions are to either get pvp gear, which will increase he effectiveness of your heals and increase your damage resistance, to travel in large groups, or to just not go into pvp areas.

[Jurzey]

settings, keybinds->toolbars

 

scrol down and bind.

 

I know how to bind, I don't see any way to bind another 10 keys to a location ttat would be efficient. So the real question is, where do you bind an extra 10 commands? Numpad and never touch the mouse or letters? I think I would have to play a lot more to make sure I hit the right letters at the right times.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Jurzey

[Atramar]

I know how to bind, I don't see any way to bind another 10 keys to a location ttat would be efficient. So the real question is, where do you bind an extra 10 commands? Numpad and never touch the mouse or letters? I think I would have to play a lot more to make sure I hit the right letters at the right times.

 

sorry.

rebind A and D to starfe instead of turn and turn with your mouse

, try shift + 1,2,3,4,5,6

Q,E,R,T,Y,F,G,H,\,Z,X,C,V

shift+Q,E,R

mouse left/right scroll button if have those.

 

etc.

 

there is a whole thread about it,

alot of people scold back peddaling and say 'only noobs go back with S', but I preffer to have 'move back' button where it was since I started playing computer games.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Atramar