Jump to content

Sage in PVP situations - Insta-dead


Jurzey

Recommended Posts

Interesting tactics in that video. I still consider myself very new to this game and completely new to PVP, so understanding all of the classes is a must. I have not even started an Imp toon so I am clueless as to what they can do.

 

FYI - Imp classes are the same as Rep classes. A republic shadow tank = imp assassin tank; republic scoundrel healer = imp operative healer; republic sentinel smasher = imp mara smasher; etc. Their powers have different names, but they do the same thing. Bioware made them all mirrors, so that someone would not have an advantage based on which side they chose.

 

For the rest of the advice, everyone else already gave better advice than I would know to give. Except... does resolve work in OW PvP? I don't actually know. If it does, then that is something else you need to worry about with respect to trying to Cc them. If it doesn't, then forget I mentioned it. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 52
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

One point regarding the key binding: in swtor you don't have to combine shift+other keys. There are not so many skills and usually a gaming version of a keyboard + mouse with some additional keys will be enough.

 

I use a keyboard which has extensions to keys that are too far away for your left hand and these extensions are comfortably in a range of your left hand. This is completely enough for swtor.

 

Don't give up with the keybinds. I know how hard it can be for a person who was only clicking so far. Jump into warzones and keep trying with keybinding. Once you will get the hold of it, even your FP's and OP's will look easier ;)

 

I think it helps alot to start a new toon and learn to key bind with a new char rather than trying with a lvl 55 char.

 

Anyway, good luck with PvP!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting tactics in that video. I still consider myself very new to this game and completely new to PVP, so understanding all of the classes is a must. I have not even started an Imp toon so I am clueless as to what they can do. When I look at my skills, I don't know what would be effective in PVP and what wouldn't.

 

I have force snap - just to interrupt

Stun - Obvious use

Force Wave - Which can get people off me and interrupt

Force Slow - so I can run away better.

Force Lift - Will this work or can it be broken?

 

Should I even bother with damage? Or just try to keep myself alive until I can be rescued?

 

I do in fact click anything outside my most used spells. Obviously I can switch enemies with tab, but then getting back to my own team I have not mastered. I have at least 20 useful things to click on, where do you bind them all? I am used to FPS where you have no more than 5 weapons and everyone is really evenly matched.

 

 

The problem is so much of this is just ingrained into you by pvping. Most of the people on this forum pvp and do nothing but pvp, so it's all 2nd nature.

 

If you can spare a key binding for force snap it's one of the most important skills in the game, use it on CD to start until you learn to identify moves you need to interrupt. Force wave isused as an interrupt but in your case used as an "oh ****", while it may be necessary to sue it soley to interrupt, try to save it for when you need to get someone back into range, and it should either be led or followed by a slow. In your case if you can push them both, slow one, stun the other, and force sprint away, you may be able to get out of their range. At that point just run for the hills and hope they don't break the gap.

 

it's not a horrible plan to use force lift, but in a situation like this it's probably pointless, they would both most likely have their stun break off CD.

And speaking of which that's another one you probably don't use much in PvE, have your stun breaker handy, it's 100% vital in pvp scenarios.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have all 6 bars available, I generally use 4.

 

But only the first bar is hotkeyed. Where do you bind the rest of the commands to have them near at hand?

 

I use a Razer mouse, so I leave my first hotbar at default (1 through =) and then my second bar is Shift + the same thing since all of them are easily reachable with my mouse hand. Shift + are for less "oh crap" skills generally, which for me is longer cast damage skills since I focus on healing first.

 

For me, as a healer (you didn't say what you specced as) the most important skills are:

 

Force Armor

Healing Trance

Rejuvinate

Deliverance

<insert Salvation when I am high enough level to get it>

Restoration (you can cleanse a lot of nasty DoTs and even some CCs)

Mind Snap

Noble Sacrifice (but obviously, not if you yourself are under heavy fire)

Force Wave

Force Slow (instant and helps you kite)

 

I also keep these skills in a small separate bar right above my main bar, since these are cooldowns I really want to keep track of. These are essential to PvPing imo, regardless of spec. I list my keybinds for them, but figure out what works for you. I definitely WOULD recommend keybinding them, though.

 

Z -- Force of Will (CC break ... also spec Egress if you are in heal tree)

C -- Force Stun

V -- Force Lift (not used under heavy fire, but useful sometimes)

T -- Mental Alacrity (cast faster and can't be interrupted)

Y -- Force Potency (I usually use with Mental Alacrity if I'm healing someone under heavy fire)

R -- Force Mend (great to heal while kiting)

G -- Force Speed (especially with Egress, fantastic kiting tool)

Shft + C and Shift + V -- Warzone medpack and adrenal (not applicable in open-world PvP)

Shift + T -- Clicky relic (as a backup "oh crap" if Mental Alacrity is on cooldown)

Shift + Y -- triage adrenal (another oh crap tool)

Shift + R -- reusable medpack

... and I will probably swap medpack to the immunity bubble once I get it, and figure out somewhere else to put medpack.

 

If you are being focused by two people, run around like a little girl rather than try to do damage with anything but instant casts. Focus on surviving while your friend whittles one of them down. Then you can both pounce on the one that's left. I'd advise practicing in warzones ... with bolster, you won't be at a gear disadvantage like in open-world PvP.

 

Kinda long winded, but I hope helpful. I still have a lot to learn myself. :)

 

EDIT: OH! As for targeting. F1 always targets yourself. I use that and F2-4 to target teammates. On your screen in a group of four, it goes like this:

 

F4

F3

F2

(F1 yourself, not shown)

 

That way in a group of 2, no clicking required to retarget teammates.

Edited by Sarielle
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use a Razer mouse, so I leave my first hotbar at default (1 through =) and then my second bar is Shift + the same thing since all of them are easily reachable with my mouse hand. Shift + are for less "oh crap" skills generally, which for me is longer cast damage skills since I focus on healing first.

 

For me, as a healer (you didn't say what you specced as) the most important skills are:

 

Force Armor

Healing Trance

Rejuvinate

Deliverance

<insert Salvation when I am high enough level to get it>

Restoration (you can cleanse a lot of nasty DoTs and even some CCs)

Mind Snap

Noble Sacrifice (but obviously, not if you yourself are under heavy fire)

Force Wave

Force Slow (instant and helps you kite)

 

I also keep these skills in a small separate bar right above my main bar, since these are cooldowns I really want to keep track of. These are essential to PvPing imo, regardless of spec. I list my keybinds for them, but figure out what works for you. I definitely WOULD recommend keybinding them, though.

 

Z -- Force of Will (CC break ... also spec Egress if you are in heal tree)

C -- Force Stun

V -- Force Lift (not used under heavy fire, but useful sometimes)

T -- Mental Alacrity (cast faster and can't be interrupted)

Y -- Force Potency (I usually use with Mental Alacrity if I'm healing someone under heavy fire)

R -- Force Mend (great to heal while kiting)

G -- Force Speed (especially with Egress, fantastic kiting tool)

Shft + C and Shift + V -- Warzone medpack and adrenal (not applicable in open-world PvP)

Shift + T -- Clicky relic (as a backup "oh crap" if Mental Alacrity is on cooldown)

Shift + Y -- triage adrenal (another oh crap tool)

Shift + R -- reusable medpack

... and I will probably swap medpack to the immunity bubble once I get it, and figure out somewhere else to put medpack.

 

If you are being focused by two people, run around like a little girl rather than try to do damage with anything but instant casts. Focus on surviving while your friend whittles one of them down. Then you can both pounce on the one that's left. I'd advice practicing in warzones ... with bolster, you won't be at a gear disadvantage like in open-world PvP.

 

Kinda long winded, but I hope helpful. I still have a lot to learn myself. :)

 

EDIT: OH! As for targeting. F1 always targets yourself. I use that and F2-4 to target teammates. On your screen in a group of four, it goes like this:

 

F4

F3

F2

(F1 yourself, not shown)

 

That way in a group of 2, no clicking required to retarget teammates.

 

Or go with a G13 and a G600.

 

Or

 

Nostromo and Razer Naga.

 

With this setup you won't click anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or go with a G13 and a G600.

 

Or

 

Nostromo and Razer Naga.

 

With this setup you won't click anymore.

 

Yeah, I had some guildies in another game that loved their nostromo. I got the Razer mouse for my birthday and loved it. Point being, a gaming mouse at the very least really, really helps with SWTOR's skill bloat. :)

 

EDIT: Wait, did I come across as a proponent of clicking skills? If so, not my intent. By all means, absolutely bind all your skills. To be clear, when I said "easily reachable with my mouse hand" I meant the buttons on the mouse.

Edited by Sarielle
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still play with an ordinary keyboard and a 2 keys logitech mouzse with a clickable wheel in the middle.

 

I just won't spend 200 Euros for a high-end gaming mouse like the ones you mentioned. Even 30 Euros is far too much for me, because I'm a casual gamer and not a Pro.

 

What should I do with such an expensive gaming mouse with my favourite hobby, writing short stories ?

I just don't know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still play with an ordinary keyboard and a 2 keys logitech mouzse with a clickable wheel in the middle.

 

I just won't spend 200 Euros for a high-end gaming mouse like the ones you mentioned. Even 30 Euros is far too much for me, because I'm a casual gamer and not a Pro.

 

What should I do with such an expensive gaming mouse with my favourite hobby, writing short stories ?

I just don't know.

 

The G600 is : 80$ (CAD)

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104674

 

The G13 is : 60$ (CAD)

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126050

 

If you play MMO it's a really good investment. IMO

Edited by Rendolphe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Disclaimer: This is not how I play other classes, such as sent, since those require a bit more but for sage/sorc it's probably the easiest way to bind stuff.

 

So, the impression I get is that people have trouble hitting the right key at the right time. It's a learning process but if you have no intention of playing other classes and just plan on playing sorc/sage the following will be more than adequate, it does however require some sort of multi-button gaming mouse.

 

Quickbar 1: Side mouse buttons 1-12

Quickbar 2: Shift + side mouse buttons. You will however not have to use all of these buttons.

Directions: Arrows

Extra abilities: num pad

Shift button: the one left of arrows

 

That's it. . You'll never have to worry about hitting the wrong key and by placing the less frequently use abilties on quickbar 2 you'll rarely have to use that either. My hands are pretty small and I have no problem hitting the num keys, I'm only using 1-6.

 

Here's a screenie on how I've placed my abilities The stuff I'm not using that often is on shift funcions and things I use all the time (force speed/bubble/force/tele throw) is on the easy to reach mouse buttons (1/4/10). I find side buttons 6 and 9 to be the wonkiest so´they went to my stun (fairly long CD) and disturbance (only use when I'm getting a second insta proc when MC already is on CD). Num keys 1-2 and 4-6 are easy to reach so they went to wz stuff and aoe abilties.

Edited by MidichIorian
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Jurzey, on the topic of key binding, the ideas others have given are great, I can tell you how I went about key binding, as I had been a clicker up until SWTOR, and played as a clicker up until I started to PvP more and realized that looking down to my skill bar to click wasn't working out very well for me in WZ's :p.

 

So, by the time I decided to start binding I had 2+ full quick bars going and simply key binding every ability wasn't going to work out, I couldn't remember what was what, I was also not very adept at using 1-0, I could hit 1-4 or 5 pretty reliably, but past that I'd might as well clicking. So, I started off with my most used abilities and put them in easy spots, I'm a guardian so sundering strike went to F, riposte, which I needed to hit in a window went to G. I bound a couple others at that point but the idea is to learn a few, so that its no longer hit G to riposte, but that G is riposte. Once those moves were simply muscle memory I added a couple more, and so on and so forth until they were all bound. When practicing I went to easier areas so I wasn't stressed about the fight and could just learn the key binds and focus on them. Now when a new ability comes I only have to learn one more key bind.

 

As for when I run out of normal binds, I.E. anything I can easily reach, I added shift + a letter or number, so, my saber throw is shift + F, or cyclone sweep is shift + E, I've even now moved on to Alt + keys (just don't tab to new enemies to quick, I've alt +tabbed out of the game more times than I care to admit to).

 

So, the trick for me was to add key binds in a slow but steady manner, to keys that are easy for you to reach, and that you don't have to think about. Also practice in an area that is low stress (I.e. not a WZ) to get those key binds down pat so they become second nature. Hope that helps. :)

 

Edited to remove the run on sentence I was totally rocking in the last paragraph.

Edited by Razamatazz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, the trick for me was to add key binds in a slow but steady manner ...

 

Same for me.

 

And if you start to play different classes, put similar abilities on the same keys. For example, my cc breaker is always shift-c, my short cc is always cntrl-x, my 'main' attack is always 2. That way when you switch characters you don't have to keep completely relearning your keybinds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The G600 is : 80$ (CAD)

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104674

 

The G13 is : 60$ (CAD)

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126050

 

If you play MMO it's a really good investment. IMO

 

Razer Naga runs about $60 too. I agree, very worth the investment -- I even used it in GW2 where you have far fewer skills, but I could do fun things like bind my screenshot and hide UI to mouse buttons so I could take "action" screenshots easier. There's never been a game I've played since getting it where I haven't found it useful. :)

 

If you're going to pay for a PC that you can game on, what's an extra $60 at that point?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, I recently hit 55 and have never run a warzone. There is so much other stuff to do in the game I didn't bother. So I have been playing the game in easy mode against stupid simple mindless mobs and dominating. I upped my gear to be pretty good but I have not gotten too involved in hard modes yet because I was working on another toon.

 

Last night I decided to look for droid parts in outlaws den with my Sentinel Friend. I have made many trips to OD before and never once seen anyone there. This time, I didn't see them until it was too late. Two sith appeared from nowhere and within seconds I was dead. I was hoping maybe they were just passing through and went in again. Didn't make it 3 feet past the gate before a single sith dropped me and my friend again. On the third try we got deep into the area and were being vigilant. We saw them coming and got ready. Then died.

 

I am certain this is my fault. I felt completely helpless and since I am PvE Sage specced I don't feel like I have any way to protect myself. Every heal outside of instants was interrupted. They completely ignored the sentinel both times and dropped me first (which makes a lot of sense) and I felt bad for him.

 

The point of this post is not to ***** though, it is to ask for help. I do not want to spec for PVP, but I do want to know how to survive. I searched for this topic but didn't find it.

 

How do I survive the rare PVP encounters I may have in the game as a Sage spec'd Consular?

 

Tactics for staying alive long enough to allow my friend to make a difference?

 

No expertise in open world = death... there's your answer.

 

You need to be shaping up to be in the same starting line in the first place, before discussing specific driving pointers. You can't outrace a F-1 machine with your go-kart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still play with an ordinary keyboard and a 2 keys logitech mouzse with a clickable wheel in the middle.

 

I just won't spend 200 Euros for a high-end gaming mouse like the ones you mentioned. Even 30 Euros is far too much for me, because I'm a casual gamer and not a Pro.

 

What should I do with such an expensive gaming mouse with my favourite hobby, writing short stories ?

I just don't know.

 

same

 

my keyboard is a cruddy 10 yeard old HP i had with an old desktop for college, my mouse was like 20 bucks but was a hand me down

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You don't need an expensive gaming mouse.

 

Old and obsolete stuff like Microsoft Intellimouse 3.0 offer two basic buttons, middle roll button and two thumb buttons. There are loads of stuff to be bough cheaply that are highly cost-effective, if you search for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the end, this comment most accurately represents the problem;

 

If you have not played PvP before then no matter what gear you will have, you will be utterly destroyed by experienced PvP players.

 

Not sure why some people post with irony "i'm waiting for the first L2P comment" as this is exactly that issue. You must learn to play in PvP environment which is totally different to the same scenarios in PvE. Do you mouse click? If the answer is yes, then this is the first thing you have to learn for PvP - bind your skills and use keys instead of mouse clicking.

 

In PvP every situation is different and you need to know, more or less skills of other classes to know what to do.

Most of your skills should be at your disposal withing fractions of seconds (so no mouse clicking). It's a much faster paced game than PvE and as i said, every time the scenario of the fight would be different.

 

Jump into warzones from time to time as they will prepare for PvP much better than OD on Tatooine will.

 

 

Entering the world of PvP is a long fight against humiliation and the desire to give it all up. You can always seem the most powerful Jedi or Sith alive when you play against AI NPCs and mobs, but as soon as you meet a human opponent all your role-playing fantasies just shatter against the reality. Everyone's first step is riddled with humiliating episodes of suckage, although those experienced in PvP from other games tend to adapt more quickly than most.

 

Most people never get past that first step, since it literally crushes egos, brings out rage and frustration. Many of them resort to these forums and start complaining about how the game is just rigged against their odds and is unfair. Only a few people have the guts to just gulp it down, admit the suckage, and sincerely take into consideration that PvP is an entirely different beast, and it has nothing to do with how you play well in PvE.

 

Only then, after "knowing, and admitting where you truly stand", begins the journey. Then it can start to become rewarding.

 

I remember my first experience many years ago, how I was obliterated in the field in some game. No matter how I tried nothing seemed to work, so I took to reading stuff in the forums, asking questions, making my own theories, testing them, coming up with solutions, practicing to see if it works...and one day, I thought up a tactic, and saw it worked, and got my first real win without any help.

 

Once you taste that moment, I guarantee, no amount of PvE is ever going to satisfy you. :)

 

Admit you suck. You're just a fledgling padawan, and your "skills" in PvE don't mean shi*. But don't be discouraged, and the most important one of them all.... don't ever fall to the temptation of the Dark Side, and start posting whines and tantrums in PvP forums. Once you do that, all your motivations to become a better player are spent and you'll start doing nothing but blow chunks of steam with all kinds of silly and useless complaints.

 

You can become better. Trust on that, and keep going for it. :)

Edited by kweassa
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This game Sucks. I hate people, they all cheat. HACKERS should all be banned! They are al;l just sniveling script kiddies living in their mom's basement eating doritos and drinking diet coke. This game should die, it is so unfair!

 

Ha. Just kidding. I appreciate all of the awesome feedback to my post and I will start trying the key bind and start working on PVP gear and skills.

 

In the mean time. I feel I have some deaths coming. I need my HK parts from Dromund Kaas and don't have an imp toon to get them. So it's time to pull some guildies together that DO know PVP and make a run for it. What do you think my survival rate will be if I have 8- 55's with me?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's the best thing to start. Travel as a group.

Even in PvP warzones the sage/sorc is a class that shines when supporting others. Surviving a 1on1 is very difficult even for skilled players.

But if you have a team that can keep the enemy off your back for just a few seconds you can become an unholy force of nature.

 

Read up on some of the sub forums for PvP tactics and rotations, then go out and get beat up in some warzones. It sucks dying but if you're smart you can learn alot from it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This game Sucks. I hate people, they all cheat. HACKERS should all be banned! They are al;l just sniveling script kiddies living in their mom's basement eating doritos and drinking diet coke. This game should die, it is so unfair!

 

Ha. Just kidding. I appreciate all of the awesome feedback to my post and I will start trying the key bind and start working on PVP gear and skills.

 

In the mean time. I feel I have some deaths coming. I need my HK parts from Dromund Kaas and don't have an imp toon to get them. So it's time to pull some guildies together that DO know PVP and make a run for it. What do you think my survival rate will be if I have 8- 55's with me?

 

you won't be able to travel there with rep char, only doable by making imp alt

 

question irrelevant ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, I recently hit 55 and have never run a warzone. There is so much other stuff to do in the game I didn't bother. So I have been playing the game in easy mode against stupid simple mindless mobs and dominating. I upped my gear to be pretty good but I have not gotten too involved in hard modes yet because I was working on another toon.

 

Last night I decided to look for droid parts in outlaws den with my Sentinel Friend. I have made many trips to OD before and never once seen anyone there. This time, I didn't see them until it was too late. Two sith appeared from nowhere and within seconds I was dead. I was hoping maybe they were just passing through and went in again. Didn't make it 3 feet past the gate before a single sith dropped me and my friend again. On the third try we got deep into the area and were being vigilant. We saw them coming and got ready. Then died.

 

I am certain this is my fault. I felt completely helpless and since I am PvE Sage specced I don't feel like I have any way to protect myself. Every heal outside of instants was interrupted. They completely ignored the sentinel both times and dropped me first (which makes a lot of sense) and I felt bad for him.

 

The point of this post is not to ***** though, it is to ask for help. I do not want to spec for PVP, but I do want to know how to survive. I searched for this topic but didn't find it.

 

How do I survive the rare PVP encounters I may have in the game as a Sage spec'd Consular?

 

Tactics for staying alive long enough to allow my friend to make a difference?

 

Hi2u sir, I have not read the entire thread, but I can explain your problem:

 

1) Sages wear light armor, so you start as a little squishy.

2) The sith in the outlaws den (openworld pvp area) were very likely wearing full pvp gear.

3) There is no bolster mechanic in the outlaws den, so it's just what you are wearing that matters.

4) The PvP damage boost from having around 2000 expertise is over 40% increased damage. This is offset by the damage reduction from expertise.

 

So, if you come up against a fully geared pvp player wearing and you have 0 expertise.... OUCH. Yeah, they will rip you apart in seconds. There is absolutely no amount of skilled play on your part that could possibly save you from such a huge disadvantage.

 

Do not be discouraged, however. With only 2 opponents, a fully PVP geared sage would have little difficulty surviving. Much more then that, well, it's hard to survive skilled, geared or not. I would thus direct you to the first tier of PVP gear, which is purchasable for warzone commendations. If your not interested in that, well, stay away from the outlaws den - not a good place to go in full pve gear :D

Edited by vermura
Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.