KBN's Guide to Combat Spec (or: how to sentinel tank)

[Mr_Fuzzle]

@KBN: At what point do i use BS with OA or delay it during the filter phase if i didn't use BS in the 2nd PS due to not proccing OA?

 

Assuming I'm proccing hand of justice immediately after the natural precision slash (occasionally this gets misaligned due to rng) my priority is that if I have more than 4 seconds before precision slash comes off cooldown, I'll throw it outside a precision slash window. If I have less than 4 seconds, I'll delay my use of blade storm to fit in the precision slash window. Try to minimize your delays in order to achieve the maximum dps while fitting blade storm with OA inside precision slash.

[Kurkina]

While I appreciate the hard work and science behind putting this guide together, I find that it is more of a theoretical best-case scenario that shines on practice targets when everything goes right but is otherwise rather impractical in real situations.

 

While the essential concept of:

 

[PS + BS > BR > TST] > Strike > [PS + Disp > BR > BS]

 

is sound and should be taken advantage of whenever possible, I find the opener too convoluted even on practice targets, not to mention in real ops situations where you have to move and react.

 

2 issues underline this problem:

 

1. First HoJ Proc after TST

(stage 2 as outlined in opener)

 

Precision Slash + Dispatch > Blade Storm > Blade Rush > Blade Rush)

 

The entire 5-part opener as outlined relies HoJ having proc'd at this point and PSlash being available, something that in my experience is very unreliable. In my last 20 parses, HoJ had only proc'd 12 times at this point.

 

For all practical purposes, an opener that relies on a "50/50" proc going off is not ideal. What do you do if it hasn't gone off? Whatever you do, the internal cooldowns and focus costs of this too-specific rotation will be off and you cannot continue as scripted.

 

2. The first Burst Phase

(stage 4 as outlined in opener)

 

Precision Slash + Blade Storm > Blade Rush > Blade Rush > Zealous Strike > Precision Slash + Dispatch > Blade Rush > Blade Storm)

 

After following the opener to the letter, I often find that the underlined PSlash + Dispatch are once again not available at this moment. I have not kept track of the succes rate, as I just improvize at this point and continue parsing, but my best guess is that 1/3 or 4 times the underlined yellow proc-based combo is not active.

 

While neither of these "problems" invalidate the concept behind the opener or the following priorities, I find that there are no real combat situations where an opening sequence like that is practical or perhaps even possible. What I would be interested in would be some sort of abridged version of the opener that does not assume that the HoJ procs will go off at their earliest possible moments. An opener that has one poised to take advantage of the basic [PS + BS > BR > TST] > Strike > [PS + Disp > BR > BS] sequence at the earliest possible moment.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Kurkina

[rkjunior]

So, I'm trying to manage my 72 to 78 transition as I burn Ultimate Comms (and working towards HMs for the set pieces)... What's the deal with Accuracy for a Combat Sentinel? Should we aim for 110% then stack power/surge or just get it over 100% then stack power/surge.. I'm consistently parsing higher than some higher geared sentinels in my guild due to a tight rotation and I'm on a mission to leave them in the dust lol.

[KeyboardNinja]

While I appreciate the hard work and science behind putting this guide together, I find that it is more of a theoretical best-case scenario that shines on practice targets when everything goes right but is otherwise rather impractical in real situations.

 

Yes and no. I didn't spend a huge amount of time in the guide explaining how to handle poor RNG, but honestly that comes from experience and practice. There are rules of thumb to keep in mind that help, but ultimately you just need to see the spec in different situations to know how to respond.

 

With that said, the OP is a highly reliable guide. I've DPSed in all of the content with my sentinel, and the primary patterns and ideas in the OP are applicable in essentially 90% of all situations. It's actually quite rare that you have to do something weird or out of the ordinary.

 

The opener isn't really all that convoluted, it's just something to commit to memory so that you don't have to weigh various alternatives on the fly in the first few seconds of the fight. If you prefer, just remember the first two Precision Slash blocks and you'll be fine. I'll note that the opener is also very reliable, at least in my experience. It's definitely the special case when something doesn't proc on schedule, and when that happens, I always have fallbacks (e.g. substituting a Blade Rush instead of a Twin Saber Throw).

 

So, I'm trying to manage my 72 to 78 transition as I burn Ultimate Comms (and working towards HMs for the set pieces)... What's the deal with Accuracy for a Combat Sentinel? Should we aim for 110% then stack power/surge or just get it over 100% then stack power/surge.. I'm consistently parsing higher than some higher geared sentinels in my guild due to a tight rotation and I'm on a mission to leave them in the dust lol.

 

You basically just need three accuracy pieces. I currently have two accuracy implants and a single Initiative Enhancement, which gives me 100.44% accuracy. After that, power and surge all the way.

Edited October 29, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

[rkjunior]

You basically just need three accuracy pieces. I currently have two accuracy implants and a single Initiative Enhancement, which gives me 100.44% accuracy. After that, power and surge all the way.

 

Perfect, that's what I've been doing. Unfortunately I'm in a mix of 72/78 vendor gear so I can't get the initiative enhancements so it's taking a little more for me to get to 100% but it was planned to go that route as I got the drops to min/max. I still have two 69 armorings then I'll probably start running the HMs for the better set pieces.

[Alassa]

I've read through this a few times, the only issues I seem to have about it is that the rotation seems really hard to memorize as there's so much to memorize and if you get one part of the rotation wrong, you're pretty much hosed. Has anyone tested this rotation on an ops? Because in an ops I don't think there is anyway to do *all* of this rotation as you're constantly moving/being knocked back/etc. So as I mentioned, if you miss one part of the rotation you seemed hosed. The rotation also seems dependent on procs. Just my observations.

[Sweeete]

I need to use ravage ONLY in gore window or no?

don't understand it....and

i read this thread,thank you very much for u work...

but i can't doing more 2850 in 72/75(bracer and gloves)/78(only 2 armoring and some deft mods)

don't know why:(

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

I need to use ravage ONLY in gore window or no?

don't understand it....and

i read this thread,thank you very much for u work...

but i can't doing more 2850 in 72/75(bracer and gloves)/78(only 2 armoring and some deft mods)

don't know why:(

 

 

Ravage in Gore Window IF Berserk is up. If not use Ravage on CD.

[Immax]

Hey, just to gauge where i'm at:

With mostly 69's - augmented + 4pc set bonus,... the best parse so far (8min) was ~2550

Will 71-78's make up the difference ( 3K - my goal) or am I derping the rotation?

I understand that the info above might be a bit vague - kinda hoping for some general feedback.

 

Would be cool if was a graphical representation of end game "Gear to DPS" output ratio.

"Average skill & gear" to "expected dps"

-Thanks-

[DarkfallDC]

I too am confused when it comes to this rotation. I'm in mostly 72 gear and I'm hitting about 2.4-6k dps on a dummy, but I"m still looking to improve. Is the goal to save all your hard hitting abilities (Force scream w/ proc, / Twin Saber throw / Ravage / Dispatch) for the gore windows, while just alternating between strike and massacre in between?

[Gboyd]

Great guide and great thread of follow on discussion.

 

Just one question, looking at the 5/36/5 spec, is there nowhere better to put the 3 points from Insight given that our only focus ability is Blade Storm which is already being used with a 100% crit chance buff from OA.

 

Other than Force Sweep, which I don't consider anything more than a trash clearing ability, this 6% buff on Force Crit chance is pointless.

 

Perhaps it's just a case of why not rather than why as most other options are fairly useless for PvE but surely when you are taking damage something like Jedi Crusader would come in more useful?

[IsapientiaI]

Just one question, looking at the 5/36/5 spec, is there nowhere better to put the 3 points from Insight given that our only focus ability is Blade Storm which is already being used with a 100% crit chance buff from OA.

 

Other than Force Sweep, which I don't consider anything more than a trash clearing ability, this 6% buff on Force Crit chance is pointless.

 

there is no other talent which provides dps and you forget that the bleeding dot from cauterize/rupture is force

[Jedi_Max]

Now how do you think, what's better, 2 Accuracy Enhancements or 3 Accuracy Enhancements for Combat (99,76% Accuracy and 77,35% Critical Multiplier vs 101,05% Accuracy and 76,25% Critical Multiplier)? Edited December 15, 2013 by Jedi_Max

[Deathstalker_]

Keyboard Ninja, I mainly have one question about this guide: how reliable are the procs? I ask mainly because, according to my math, any melee attack only has a 6% chance to proc Opportune Attack, and has a 9% chance to proc Hand of Justice. Yet, despite these numbers, you don't seem to be using Blade Rush to fish for procs like I would have expected. In fact, the language of the OP seems to say that the procs can be controlled to activate only when you need them. This implies that the numbers the game gives aren't the whole story. Now, I'm used to games not telling us all the information on things, but I have yet to find any place where that information is made available for people to see for this game, so if there's more going on, I don't know what it is. That means that all I'm seeing is what the game shows, and my math doesn't seem to match up to your math.

[Bejarid]

how reliable are the procs?

 

I believe he is using BR to fish for procs, according to this statement from the last paragraph in the "Rotation" section, just before "Dealing with RNG":

 

sit at around 6 Focus spamming BR > Strike over and over. This gives me the best chance to build my Opportune Attack proc

 

A "Focus neutral" rotation at this point essentially means building two Focus with Strike, then immediately dumping with BR (which, thanks to the Watchman talent Focused Slash, will refund one of its three cost, for a net "loss" of two), and simply alternating the two abilities while waiting for procs and ACDs (that is, ability cooldowns).

 

To take a stab at an answer to your real question, the procs seem pretty reliable. OA is up pretty frequently after the first BR for the buff - providing, of course, you don't let the buff fall off. I've only recently come back after a year and a half, and I've not bothered using one of the parsing tools to try and find approximate values while leveling to 55 to provide concrete data, so take anecdotal evidence with a doctor recommended amount of salt.

[TradeLA]

Looking at the latest parses on the leaderboard, looks been some changes/new discoveries since last time KBN updated this thread. For one thing, I notice the leaders are cancelling out of ravage/masterstrike before it finishes. Have to look closer at the parses to see what else is different, but using the old style, I used to be in range of the leaders and now I'm significantly behind. Edited December 21, 2013 by TradeLA

[Emperor-Norton]

Looking at the latest parses on the leaderboard, looks been some changes/new discoveries since last time KBN updated this thread. For one thing, I notice the leaders are cancelling out of ravage/masterstrike before it finishes. Have to look closer at the parses to see what else is different, but using the old style, I used to be in range of the leaders and now I'm significantly behind.

The last tick of MS/Ravage hits at 2.7 seconds, so if you channel after that you are basically wasting time. So everyone breaks the channel at that point.

[TradeLA]

The last tick of MS/Ravage hits at 2.7 seconds, so if you channel after that you are basically wasting time. So everyone breaks the channel at that point.

 

Good to know. What about when berserk is running and the channel only lasts 2.3?

 

I'm trying to figure out how the top parsers are getting 49APMs and 3600-3700dps. My gear's not quite as good, but it's close and I can't break 46APMs and 3300--

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/527835/time/1387698811/1387699115/0/Log

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/d3bdde6b-4334-489d-91c9-839f9b6e155b

[paowee]

KBN do you mind if i format this for my site? References will all point out here ofcourse. I'd like to add some icons into this amazing guide

[Bejarid]

Had a quick question regarding Master Strike: I've noticed that it spreads its damage over three separate ticks, the first two of which occur entirely within the triggered global. Is waiting the extra global for that last tick worth enough damage to justify delaying something like a procced Dispatch or Blade Storm, or an available Twin Saber Throw? I'd like to go through some rotations while parsing to see if there's a difference, but don't have time and wanted to see what some others with more experience thought about it.

[KeyboardNinja]

KBN do you mind if i format this for my site? References will all point out here ofcourse. I'd like to add some icons into this amazing guide

 

Go for it! I have a couple revisions I'd like to make at some point when I have time. I'll be sure to ping you when I do.

[KeyboardNinja]

Had a quick question regarding Master Strike: I've noticed that it spreads its damage over three separate ticks, the first two of which occur entirely within the triggered global. Is waiting the extra global for that last tick worth enough damage to justify delaying something like a procced Dispatch or Blade Storm, or an available Twin Saber Throw? I'd like to go through some rotations while parsing to see if there's a difference, but don't have time and wanted to see what some others with more experience thought about it.

 

The last tick of master strike is not as hard hitting as Blade Storm or Dispatch. However, ideally you won't have to choose between them. Contrary to what the guide says (and this is one of my intended updates), you want to put Master Strike into the second PS window *if* it is off cooldown with less than 3 seconds on the natural cd of PS. Thus, sometimes you use it out of PS, just to fit more in. The second window thus looks like:

 

PS + Master Strike > Blade Storm

 

Dispatch falls outside the window unless HoJ proc'd during the second GCD of the first window, in which case you can use Dispatch instead of the third GCD (this requires some split-second proc watching).

 

The exception to the above is if you already have >26 centering. Then you can just trust in Zen:

 

PS + Dispatch + Zen > Master Strike > Blade Storm

[Bejarid]

The last tick of master strike is not as hard hitting as Blade Storm or Dispatch.

 

Okay, so breaking MS before that last tick isn't overly damning, then? I've gotten into the bad habit of breaking it as soon as the global is up, trying to queue my next ability and I'm just not used to channeled abilities in general, really. I do realize that, ideally, MS is just filler but wasted damage is wasted damage unless other available abilities trump it - and I have run into that issue with Combat's procs.

 

Thanks for the speedy reply!

[TradeLA]

I think what Emperor Norton is saying is not that it is worth it to interrupt Master Strike before the third tick but that the third tick hits at 2.7 seconds and if you let the channel continue to its end you waste .3 seconds. If true, that's an important addition to the initial post. Also, at what point the third tick hits when Zen is up and MS is only 2.3 seconds total would be nice to know, if it hits before 2.3--I don't think it does.

 

If true this also means that Zen only effectively shortens Masterstrike by .4 seconds, not .7 seconds, making it less important to hit the two at the same time.

Edited December 26, 2013 by TradeLA

[Emperor-Norton]

The last tick of master strike is not as hard hitting as Blade Storm or Dispatch.

All of the in-game testing I have done puts the MH on the last tick Master Strike over Dispatch (no use of Zen for Weaponmaster, relics unequipped, no Inspiration, no adrenals, etc.). That is before the quite strong offhand attack the last tick comes with is accounted for. Is the 2 Piece PvE being accounted for in your calculations?

 

On another note, with Zen the last tick of MS hits at 2.2 seconds in the channel, and I wouldn't recommend not using Zen due to Weaponmaster and it makes fitting in the extra attack into PS easier. .4 Seconds can be pretty significant in Combat.