KBN's Guide to Combat Spec (or: how to sentinel tank)

[Sprgmr]

So using the inherent delay on Dispatch/VT to allow a later Precision/Gore activation, and get more in one window? That's some 0.1% **** right there.

 

I have spent some time examining a parse of 3130 by Fey't. She does this exact thing with Dispatch/Vicious Throw. Activates it before Precision Slash/Gore and it hits inside the PS/Gore window.

[kennethdale]

Absolutely phenomal thread. I play primarily Watchman (truthfully, Annihilation because I'm evil ) but Combat is straight-up better in many situations and this thread helped boost my dps significantly!

 

That said, I have an off-topic-ish question...I've also been playing a "Guardian" lately and I know a few "Sentinels" who do exactly this which I have trouble coping with. I noticed, KBN, that you mentioned that is mathematically my fault which leads me to believe you may have a solution? If so, care to share?

[Yngow]

I can't do higher than 2700 dps and I'm pretty sure my gear is as good as the guys doing 3000:

3082 Strength, 1254 power, 101.49% acc (my gear is set for watchmen till I figure this spec), 20.82% crit chance (implant has crit), 72.73% multiplier, 72 main/offhand, arkanian serendiptous and boundless, reusable stims and adrenals.

 

And I still don't know what to do with master strike, some people say MS is the main priority during PS and you should save it so you can do PS>MS>BS(or TST if no proc), on KN's guide if I understood right your priority is having BS proc on both PS windows, MS is included on the second if you have zen up, otherwise use MS as soon as it comes up outside of PS window, preferably with zen. So what should I follow?

 

parse:

http://www.torparse.com/a/367849/1/0/Damage+Dealt

 

I also think my APM is kinda crappy, but that may be related to lag, I have about 140ms when my connection is doing perfect due to long distance to servers

 

And an unrelated question: Would you switch boundless for proc dmg after they fix the relics?

Edited August 3, 2013 by Yngow

[stephenalandavie]

Just a quick question,

 

2 points in swelling winds? isn't that a waste with combat?

[Emperor-Norton]

Just a quick question,

 

2 points in swelling winds? isn't that a waste with combat?

Besides the 5 points in Watchman and 36 in Combat, the rest can be used where you want generally. Also, in actual fights you will want to use Sweep (and TST) to kill adds.

[stephenalandavie]

Besides the 5 points in Watchman and 36 in Combat, the rest can be used where you want generally. Also, in actual fights you will want to use Sweep (and TST) to kill adds.

 

In pvp? or Pve? also what is TST? forgive me I have a marauder never played the sentinel.

 

 

 

EDITED, I see TST is dual saber throw. I only do Pvp and I don't even have force sweep on my quick binds

Edited August 4, 2013 by stephenalandavie

[Emperor-Norton]

In pvp? or Pve? also what is TST? forgive me I have a marauder never played the sentinel.

 

EDITED, I see TST is dual saber throw. I only do Pvp and I don't even have force sweep on my quick binds

Ah, PvP Combat/Carnage is quite different from PvE Combat/Carnage, but this is a PvE thread. If I was going for a full PvP build I would just take the 5 points in Watchman/Annihilation and put the rest in Combat/Carnage.

[skomerko]

What relics should i use? Should i change my power clicky + power proc to damage proc + power proc? Or switch between them in some fights? Edited August 7, 2013 by skomerko

[Sprgmr]

Given how Dispatch and Precision Slash function (enabling an extra attack under PS), how has that changed the PS "blocks" as outlined, since reading through it doesn't seem to taken into account. I'm wondering how KBN and others who are much more experienced with Combat than I have altered their play. Or if consistent use of that screws up the timing of Combat. Edited August 7, 2013 by Sprgmr

[dipstik]

i would be interested in knowing if the force kinetic relic is better than and internal one. hard to say. what % of damage comes in the gore windows?

[KeyboardNinja]

Given how Dispatch and Precision Slash function (enabling an extra attack under PS), how has that changed the PS "blocks" as outlined, since reading through it doesn't seem to taken into account. I'm wondering how KBN and others who are much more experienced with Combat than I have altered their play. Or if consistent use of that screws up the timing of Combat.

 

I'm still experimenting with it. You do have to be a bit careful with focus levels because Dispatch only returns 1 focus, rather than the 2 you get from Strike or the 6 from Zealous Strike. I know it's *definitely* superior when you're using Master Strike in the second window (something else that I haven't revised into the guide), but it's going to take a bit of practice before I'm really solid on that.

 

i would be interested in knowing if the force kinetic relic is better than and internal one. hard to say. what % of damage comes in the gore windows?

 

The question is not so much the percentage of damage, but rather the percentage of time, since the damage proc relic simply ticks at regular intervals. The answer to that question is 9 seconds every 20 (the ICD of HoJ), or 45%. Interestingly enough, this means that we can consider Combat to function with 100% armor pen at 45% uptime, and a 20% armor pen with 55% uptime, which means the stochastic armor pen is 56%, which seems like it would be high enough to make the energy/kinetic relics better than the internal/elemental assuming perfect Precision Slash management. Whether the damage proc relic is superior to the Boundless Ages is a very different question though.

Edited August 7, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

[Sprgmr]

I know that Ino Style has a marvelous spreadsheet on WM/Combat (find him/it at MMO-Mechanics) and models for damage where I'm fairly certain he always has 4 and 5 abilities under PS. He hasn't put down the Combat order that his models use like he has for a fair bit of WM. I'll PM you a link to his MMO-Mechanics profile, which has a link to his spreadsheets (which i think he has to grant people access to).

 

Anyway, thanks a ton for all this.

 

Ino's Profile and his spreadsheets.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Sprgmr

[Yngow]

The question is not so much the percentage of damage, but rather the percentage of time, since the damage proc relic simply ticks at regular intervals. The answer to that question is 9 seconds every 20 (the ICD of HoJ), or 45%. Interestingly enough, this means that we can consider Combat to function with 100% armor pen at 45% uptime, and a 20% armor pen with 55% uptime, which means the stochastic armor pen is 56%, which seems like it would be high enough to make the energy/kinetic relics better than the internal/elemental assuming perfect Precision Slash management. Whether the damage proc relic is superior to the Boundless Ages is a very different question though.

The kinetic/energy is even better if you consider that you'll run with a slinger/guardian/commando that will keep a 20% armor debuff all the time on the bosses

[Memo-]

I think using the Kinetic/Energy relic is a bit risky though, as you would have to be very lucky with the procs. They can't be controlled, aren't 100% sure to even proc straight after cooldown, and even at best it's 1 single attack once every 4,5 seconds. If you miss one or even both PS windows, it's value will be much lower.

 

Internal/Elemental relics are more consistent, while Kinetic/Energy would have a higher damage potential, but with greater risks.

[EzioMessi]

This guide has helped a lot in increasing my damage as Combat spec, to the point that I actually like the ay it plays compared to Watchman. I do have one major question though. Which attack procs the Precision Slash reset? What's the proc rate? And why does it not appear as a buff or something? The reason I ask this is because I see it reset at completely random times, and this messes up my rotation, because all the other procs reset, or cooldowns aren't done yet, etc.

[Ausgelebt]

i would be interested in knowing if the force kinetic relic is better than and internal one. hard to say. what % of damage comes in the gore windows?

 

 

kinetic>internal

[Memo-]

This guide has helped a lot in increasing my damage as Combat spec, to the point that I actually like the ay it plays compared to Watchman. I do have one major question though. Which attack procs the Precision Slash reset? What's the proc rate? And why does it not appear as a buff or something? The reason I ask this is because I see it reset at completely random times, and this messes up my rotation, because all the other procs reset, or cooldowns aren't done yet, etc.

 

Hand of Justice (the PS reset + free Dispatch) can proc from an Ataru Form attack every 20 secs. Blade Rush always procs Ataru, so spamming it is a good way to fish for the proc. And the proc does have a buff, its icon is the same as that of Dispatch.

[soowonlee]

KBN, thank you for the excellent thread.

 

Has anyone else noticed their HoJ procc'ing, but the PS cooldown not finishing? The Dispatch cooldown finishes, but the PS cooldown keeps ticking away, even though I see HoJ on my buff bar.

 

This doesn't happen often, but often enough to really screw with my dps, as it totally eliminates the second PS window. Does anyone know what causes this?

[Ashwinn]

just wondering whats your guy's ability que time window set at?

[KeyboardNinja]

just wondering whats your guy's ability que time window set at?

 

Currently, 0.2 seconds. I find that things are just a little too delayed on responsiveness at 0.5 seconds.

[Yngow]

Just a weird question: Would it be viable to use a surge adrenal instead of a power adrenal due to the fact that if you time it right you will get at least 2 auto-crits from blade storm? I don't think it's worth it because of the DR on surge but I am kinda curious.

 

I finally got comfortable with combat spec, getting constant 3k dps parses even when I'm really sloppy on my rotation and the opener spikes for almost 5k dps. Thanks for this amazing guide KN

http://www.torparse.com/a/389179/time/1376834237/1376834495/0/Damage+Dealt

 

The rotation gets even deadlier when you get the boss under 30%, I add a dispatch with the trick where you press it just before precision slash on the first window and then I get another one on the second with HoJ. It is also not unusual during a boss fight to include rebuke and some ripostes here and there.

Edited August 18, 2013 by Yngow

[totenalles]

Hey, very nice post, great detailing. i just got back from a 4 month break from swtor, and couldnt wait to get into the new carnage rotation. Im currently sitting in some pretty terrible gear, 9 63mods/enhancements, a 63 armoring, a good deal of crit, DG relics, and no set bonus. however i do have the 72 main and offhand!! So in the week that ive been back i have gotten my dps from 2200 to 2731, 2700 is a consistent number for me at the moment, though i have only done a few parses in the last couple days.

 

I noticed that much of what you outline is exactly what i am doing, so thats comforting, however i do have a few points to make..

-line cauterize up directly before Precision strike so that the bleed damage echos into your window

- set master strike directly after a PS and u will have no issues with missingthat final vicious throw and/or blade storm in the window.

- And finally, expect master strike to be available every 3 PS windows, and *Berserk*(forgot the sent version) comes up every 2 windows. SO in all reality you can hit *berserk* into every master strike, and get that gorgeous PS>Master>vicious>BS every time (given that your procs are cooperating). In the instance that master strike is coming up in your second window, use berserk after your first PS, given 6 ticks, 4 are used in your first window, then with a proc, next you have a few options. if your worried about your focus, you can hit strike once and then start your window, however this leaves a very very tight window, so its best to go straight to it, and not chance anything. This set would look like this:

 

PS>[berserk>BS>BR>BR>TST//BR]>PS>[MS>VT>BS]

0>>>>6 >>>> 5>> 4>> 3>>>>2>>>>>2>>>>2>>1>>0 --berserk stacks available after use.

 

edit::

one final note would be to try to get berserk into the regular PS of each window set, dont waste it on the second window alone, unless the big MS combo is available but even then, the berserk should have been activated within the first window.

Edited August 23, 2013 by totenalles

[paulyWALNUTS]

-line cauterize up directly before Precision strike so that the bleed damage echos into your window

 

This does nothing, as Cauterize/Rupture 's bleeds are elemental/internal damage, meaning they go through any and all defences and deal full (true) damage anyway.

Edited August 23, 2013 by paulyWALNUTS

[totenalles]

This does nothing, as Cauterize/Rupture 's bleeds are elemental/internal damage, meaning they go through any and all defences and deal full (true) damage anyway.

 

learn somethin new every day i guess, the thought sounds good though xD

[spirosz]

Hey, I have a question in terms of levelling with this build. I'm level 33 and I switched from the Watchmen spec and I find that the self heals from Watchmen is more PVE friendly, at least for earlier levelling. Should I focus on a specific rotation till I hit a certain level because I won't have all the skills to make this shine till then.

 

I have Treek as my companion, so healing isn't too bad.

Edited August 24, 2013 by spirosz