KBN's Guide to Combat Spec (or: how to sentinel tank)

[KeyboardNinja]

Our calculations for Dispatch/Vicisous Throw don't line up.

 

I was lazy and pulled numbers from an actual combat log (linked in my reply) and then adjusted the average value back down to account for crits. Part of why the number is so different is Dispatch is almost always used under armor pen during an actual parse. This is fair though, because Dispatch with Swift Slash would still be used in the same position, so I feel justified in my laziness. :-)

 

How do you conclude - taken from your linked post:

 

The increased crit chance increases the average damage done by Dispatch by 36.94% (with your current gear).

 

This alone should have been a HUGE red flag for me. It makes absolutely no sense that a 7.5% crit chance increase could increase net DPS by as much as 37%. Let's just toss out my numbers…

 

Based on my math 2-points in Valor/Short Fuse is clearly superior...

 

EDIT: Also your Centering/Fury counts are off in the calculation you linked. With 2 points in Valor/Short Fuse, you should gain 4 Centering/Frenzy per resource-consuming attack. It is a fixed amount per ability. In your calculation, you show different Centering/Fury for each ability.

 

This is perhaps embarrassing to admit, but I was pretty sure that the amount of Centering built by an ability was equivalent to the amount of Focus consumed by the baseline ability (e.g. Dispatch still builds centering). If it's just 2 every time, then the value of the Valor talent is increased significantly relative to the "natural" Centering generation. Additionally, this has a significant effect on the uptime of the 4pc Zen buff, emphasized even further by the fact that the uptime clipped in my original calculations (due to assuming each ability generated more natural Centering that it actually does). Thus, the buff uptime is affected by my error to an even larger extent than the Zen uptime is.

 

Now, I think there are some issues with your calculations as well, specifically the interaction you assume with the Precision Slash window as well as the fact that you're basing an assumed value of Ataru Zen on the value of Juyo Zen. However, even if we just look at my numbers, adjusting for my errors, it becomes brutally clear that Swift Slash is a significantly less valuable talent than the second point in Valor.

 

tl;dr: I was wrong, and the ideal spec is 5/36/5 (with 2 of the points in Focus being optional).

[oofalong]

I was lazy and pulled numbers from an actual combat log (linked in my reply) and then adjusted the average value back down to account for crits. Part of why the number is so different is Dispatch is almost always used under armor pen during an actual parse. This is fair though, because Dispatch with Swift Slash would still be used in the same position, so I feel justified in my laziness. :-)

 

 

 

This alone should have been a HUGE red flag for me. It makes absolutely no sense that a 7.5% crit chance increase could increase net DPS by as much as 37%. Let's just toss out my numbers…

 

Incidentally, my calculations are not adjusted for armor as I assumed any use of Dispatch/Vicious Throw occurred within the Precision Slash/Gore window as it should.

 

 

This is perhaps embarrassing to admit, but I was pretty sure that the amount of Centering built by an ability was equivalent to the amount of Focus consumed by the baseline ability (e.g. Dispatch still builds centering). If it's just 2 every time, then the value of the Valor talent is increased significantly relative to the "natural" Centering generation. Additionally, this has a significant effect on the uptime of the 4pc Zen buff, emphasized even further by the fact that the uptime clipped in my original calculations (due to assuming each ability generated more natural Centering that it actually does). Thus, the buff uptime is affected by my error to an even larger extent than the Zen uptime is.

 

I commend you for acknowledging this. I have been wrong numerous times on mechanics for Annihilation despite knowing it so well. I think one of the benefits of discussing these things is to share knowledge and arrive at the best information. This only happens when people put themselves out there and then explain their approach/logic. Too often people don't outline their assumptions and math. You take the time to do both, which ultimately benefits the community so thanks.

 

Now, I think there are some issues with your calculations as well, specifically the interaction you assume with the Precision Slash window as well as the fact that you're basing an assumed value of Ataru Zen on the value of Juyo Zen.

 

I worried this might cloud the issue. I did not mean to suggest there was any correlation between the benefits of Zen in Ataru and Juyo. I was offering it as a gut-check really.

 

Generally, I think the two specs are pretty balanced, but this does not necessarily mean each ability has equal value in each spec. Still, I would not expect one spec's benefit from Zen/Berserk to be more than 3X the other spec. If there was such a disparity in fights where there was a lot of AoE damage and Centering/Fury being built from Defensive Forms than one of the spec would over index. I do not see this happening so I assume they have to be closer in value.

 

I thought my quick calculation of another Strike/Assault in the Precision Slash/Gore window was a pretty good way to gut-check it.

[KeyboardNinja]

Generally, I think the two specs are pretty balanced, but this does not necessarily mean each ability has equal value in each spec. Still, I would not expect one spec's benefit from Zen/Berserk to be more than 3X the other spec. If there was such a disparity in fights where there was a lot of AoE damage and Centering/Fury being built from Defensive Forms than one of the spec would over index. I do not see this happening so I assume they have to be closer in value.

 

I thought my quick calculation of another Strike/Assault in the Precision Slash/Gore window was a pretty good way to gut-check it.

 

It's not a bad way, since it's certainly lower than what you *would* use in that situation, but you don't get every Zen on top of a PS. I like to look at Ataru Zen in two lights. First, it is a DPS increase of 30% for 6 seconds and a multiplicative DPS increase of 4% for 15 seconds. Keeping in the spirit of rough estimation, fully-geared Combat DPS is about 3k, which means that a DPS increase of 30% over 6 seconds is worth 5400 damage. On top of that, you have a multiplicative 4% buff over 15 seconds, which we can divide into a 35.2% buff for 6 seconds and a 4% buff for 9 seconds, which is 6336 + 1080 = 7416 damage overall, assuming you don't clip with an additional Zen.

 

This series of assumptions is rendered slightly inaccurate by the fact that Precision Slash is not shortened by Zen, which means that the average value of Zen is actually somewhat *higher* than the number I gave. This is hard to calculate, so I'm going to be lazy and just say that Ataru Zen is worth *roughly* 8000 damage per activation in full BiS gear with optimal rotation. I suspect that is very close to accurate, though a more precise number would be nice.

Edited July 15, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

[TradeLA]

I've been using the method two PS windows with a BS (with OA active) at the beginning of the first and the end of the second since 2.0 hit the test server and posted my results about it three months ago here:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=628368

 

I have been working with it and refining it for the last three months. Some of the people who responded had some good points I incorporated. Here's my best parse, with adrenal and relic:

 

2953

 

My gear is here. In brief, three 69 armorings, the rest of my gear is optimized 72, no crit.

 

I agree with all the basics that you are suggesting, but I think you are undervaluing the necessity of using Blade Rush to proc OA and HoJ as quickly as possible after the first use of PS. Using MS and/or TST in the first PS window significantly lowers your chance of getting the procs you need for an optimal second window. You end up having to monitor your buff bar much more during the first PS window as well as getting a higher percentage of "fails" where you have to spam a combo of BR and Strike in between the two windows. While this might result in a slight DPS gain on the dummy (though I doubt it) where you have nothing else to focus on and can micro-manage your rotation, it has a distinct disadvantage when you are actually battling a boss in an operation, have less time/attention to monitor your rotation and buffs, and are constantly having to focus on other things.

Taking this into account, what I have had the best results with is this--

 

First window:

PS>BS>BR>BR (and another BR if Zen is up)

 

Second window:

PS>Dispatch>BR>BS

or, if MS is up:

PS>MS>BS (with Dispatch next, outside the PS window)

or if MS and Zen are up:

PS>MS>Dispatch>BS

 

I hold TST in reserve in case I run out of focus in the second PS window, in which case I replace BR with it. If I don't have to use TST, I might cast it during the focus-building phase, I use it like rupture, but below rupture in priority. By using this combination on autopilot, no matter how distracted I get in battle against an ops boss, even if I can't watch my bar for procs at all, I am almost guaranteed to get a quick proc of OA and HoJ in the first PS window. The only thing I really need to concentrate on is being sure OA procs during the rage-building phase and that I have enough focus built up to get through my full two PS window burst phase.

 

ZEN

 

As I wrote in my original post about this subject, the problem with trying to match Zen up with the burst phase is that not only are you delaying each and every following Zen, but that you will build up to a full 30 charges at a slower rate. The reason for this is that all the high damage attacks you hit during the burst phase are Focus spenders that all build Centering if Zen is not active. But if you activate Zen at the beginning of the burst phase, each Focus spender expends a charge of Zen and DOES NOT build any Centering at all. On the other hand, if you use Zen during the focus-building phase--where you are hitting Strike repeatedly, which doesn't build Centering whether Zen is running or not--then during the burst phase, with Zen not running, your Centering builds back up quickly. Zen also helps you proc OA quickly and more certainly before the first PS window comes up, and then get your focus up high. As a result, I find delaying Zen more than a GCD or two to be a big loss despite the fact that Zen works so well with PS and MS, and that the 15% Zen damage boost you get from the set bonus is better applied during the burst phase than the focus-building phase. In general, Zen is cast as soon as it comes off CD.

 

This probably also impacts your debate over how many points to put into the skill tree for building Centering vs. the 7.5% increased damage for Dispatch.

 

MASTER STRIKE

 

For the above reasons, I rarely delay hitting MS. I hit MS during the focus-building phase if it is not going to ruin my chances of proccing OA and building enough focus for a successful burst phase. If Zen is running and is going to run out before the second PS window, I'll hit MS in the first window, otherwise I'll delay it a few seconds and hit it in the second window. I know a lot of people insist that MS in the first window is the way to go every time when possible, and that might get you the greatest damage in the shortest possible time, but it just means greater chance of delaying the second PS window, and more time spent micro-managing your buffs and rotation when you need to be watching your feet and/or chasing the boss. I'd rather hit Zen and MS at the beginning of the focus-building phase than delay both until the first PS window, that is for absolute sure. If I'm almost at 30 stacks of centering when I get to my second PS window, I'll go for PS>Dispatch>BS>FS, hitting Zen as soon as possible and putting MS outside the PS window. I'd rather have a 2.3 second MS outside the PS window than a 3 second one inside that crowds out Dispatch, or delay the start of the second PS window so I can both get MS in the window and have it be 2.3 seconds as well.

 

OPENER

For the same reasons listed above, I start with Force Leap>Zealous Strike>PS>BR>BR>BR and then BS if OA has procced, Dispatch if it has not but HoJ has, all of which falls in the PS window. Then, assuming HoJ has procced, I proceed to PS>MS and end with Dispatch, or BS if I used Dispatch in the first window. I focus most of my attention on positioning, and chances are even if I take my eyes off the buff bar at the wrong moment, all my procs will hit where they are supposed to any way.

 

THE STRIKE/ZEALOUS STRIKE "FILLER"

 

Not taking account lag and incremental losses of fractions of seconds, a "filler" between the two PS windows is, in fact, needed; in practice though, thanks to those factors, the filler usually isn't necessary. On autopilot I put the filler there any way to avoid being focus-starved or not being able to hit BS before PS expires, and there is a real advantage to hitting ZS between windows rather than delaying until the end.. But if my attention is free enough and ZS isn't up, I'll often skip the Strike filler and go straight from the first PS combo to the second one.

 

 

A lot is determined whether you are trying to set a record on the dummy or practicing for ops, the more your system depends on micro-adjustments, the worse its going to hold up against a boss. I think a lot is also determined by where you prioritize BS with OA in a PS window against Master Strike, a lot of people insist on making Master Strike the top priority instead and many also seem to get good results, it may just be two different schools with neither truly trumping the other. I suspect that the Bioware method is to provide the illusion of choice with most paths leading to the same result, because trying to program for players with vastly different damage results would be a huge headache. That's my two cents. Sorry if I messed up a translation somewhere in there, I'm used to speaking in Marauder lingo, not Sentinel.

Edited July 15, 2013 by TradeLA

[KeyboardNinja]

For the same reasons listed above, I start with Force Leap>Zealous Strike>PS>BR>BR>BR and then BS if OA has procced, Dispatch if it has not but HoJ has, all of which falls in the PS window. Then, assuming HoJ has procced, I proceed to PS>MS and end with Dispatch, or BS if I used Dispatch in the first window. I focus most of my attention on positioning, and chances are even if I take my eyes off the buff bar at the wrong moment, all my procs will hit where they are supposed to any way.

 

Taking the opener I advocate:

 

PS + BR > MS > TST

 

PS is two hits, which is 1 - (1 - 0.2*0.45)*(1 - 0.2*0.45*0.77) = 15.3063%

BR is two hits with a guaranteed Ataru proc and a chance at a secondary proc, which is 1 - (1 - 0.45)*(1 - 0.5*0.45)*(1 - 0.5*0.45*0.77) = 64.7597812%

MS is three standard hits and three low accuracy hits, but the BR proc is active, which is 1 - (1 - 0.5*0.45)^3*(1 - 0.05*0.45)^3 = 56.5234168%

TST is two hits, which is 1 - (1 - 0.5*0.45)*(1 - 0.5*0.45*0.77) = 35.926875%

 

Altogether, we have the following probability of having the HoJ proc at the end of the first window:

 

1 - (1 - 0.153063)*(1 - 0.647597812)*(1 - 0.565234168)*(1 - 0.35926875) = 91.69%

 

Those are pretty good odds. If you like, you can increase that even further by replacing the Twin Saber Throw with a Blade Rush:

 

1 - (1 - 0.153063)*(1 - 0.647597812)*(1 - 0.565234168)*(1 - 0.647597812) = 95.43%

 

By contrast, here's what happens if you use four BRs:

 

1 - (1 - 0.647597812)^4 = 98.46%

 

That's better, but not by as much as you would think. In fact, it's only 3% better odds of having HoJ. In exchange, you're delaying Master Strike, potentially even missing out on the chance to fit it into a PS window *at all* in your opener (you can't bet on it being doable in the second window *along with* Dispatch and Blade Storm since you might need to spend an extra GCD to proc HoJ, which wastes a Zen charge).

[Ausgelebt]

Maybe it is just me, but I often don't have OA up when I do the first PS, meaning I can't go PS>BS>BR>BR but more like PS>BR>BR>BS

[Ardarell_Solo]

As I said, if you time it right, you don't need an extra GCD for the ability directly following Master Strike. That makes Master Strike the top priority ability in second PS window, as it will allow the use of one additional ability in that window.

 

So you should aim at having Master Strike ready for the second PS window - except it comes off cooldown shortly after the second Precision window, especially if Zen is available during that focus building phase (see Trade LAs reasoning on using Master Strike).

Edited July 16, 2013 by Ardarell_Solo

[Ausgelebt]

As I said, if you time it right, you don't need an extra GCD for the ability directly following Master Strike. That makes Master Strike the top priority ability in second PS window, as it will allow the use of one additional ability in that window.

 

So you should aim at having Master Strike ready for the second PS window - except it comes off cooldown shortly after the second Precision window, especially if Zen is available during that focus building phase (see Trade LAs reasoning on using Master Strike).

 

^this

 

I always try to use MS>BS in second window, works perfectly.

 

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/340158

 

Still room to improve, but this is how I do it. Need to really get BS in every PS window, I usually mess that up due to fps lags

Edited July 16, 2013 by Ausgelebt

[TradeLA]

^this

 

I always try to use MS>BS in second window, works perfectly.

 

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/340158

 

Still room to improve, but this is how I do it. Need to really get BS in every PS window, I usually mess that up due to fps lags

 

That's a really good parse. 15 seconds short of 5 mins, I assume it would trend down some, but then go way up between 5 and 5:30 due to bloodthirst, and would likely beat the top scores in the dps record thread--

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=637291

 

Though those were all done before anyone had 75s. It looks like you always pop zen right before or after a precision slash, is this correct? So in essence, if zen becomes available in the focus-building phase, you will wait until your first PS to pop it. MS you always wait until the second PS window to pop it. The exception is when MS comes off cooldown right after the second PS window, in which case you will pop it rather than wait another 10 seconds or so. Also if Zen AND MS become available right after the second PS window, you will pop both in the focus-building phase--

 

Is that about right?

[Ausgelebt]

I try to use Zen on CD but if I see that PS is almost to come up I will delay Zen a bit. I don't have 75 gear besides off hand

 

 

I never use MS without PS window, but I do use it without Zen because for me I can perfectly do MS+BS in a PS.

 

I can keep up a steady 3k with some phases where it goes down to 2950 and phases where it goes up to 3,2 or 3,3 (inspiration etc). It is a bit random though, this was a lucky parse(crit numbers) sometimes when some big hitters don't crit it is only around 2900. You can also loose a lot of DPS if you don't get procs when opening (e.g. opportune attack doesn't proc or hand of justice or your MS in burst phase doesn't crit). As I mentioned in another thread I am not really good at all those theory stuff, can only talk from my own experience.

 

 

Another thing is APM were a bit "low", usually can go by 48-49APM which would've been a bit more dps, but yeah I am not a robot.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/0f3e9489-6c7b-4116-8d44-46d2c44d6d59/url]

 

this is an exact copy of my character if anyone is curious, besides the power is not 1038 but 1002 because AMR is a bit bugged. Mods stack there even if you remove and replace them.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Ausgelebt

[vdbswong]

this is an exact copy of my character if anyone is curious, besides the power is not 1038 but 1002 because AMR is a bit bugged. Mods stack there even if you remove and replace them.

 

It fixes itself when you save and reload the character .

[Ardarell_Solo]

I try to use Zen on CD but if I see that PS is almost to come up I will delay Zen a bit. I don't have 75 gear besides off hand

 

 

I never use MS without PS window, but I do use it without Zen because for me I can perfectly do MS+BS in a PS.

 

I can keep up a steady 3k with some phases where it goes down to 2950 and phases where it goes up to 3,2 or 3,3 (inspiration etc). It is a bit random though, this was a lucky parse(crit numbers) sometimes when some big hitters don't crit it is only around 2900. You can also loose a lot of DPS if you don't get procs when opening (e.g. opportune attack doesn't proc or hand of justice or your MS in burst phase doesn't crit). As I mentioned in another thread I am not really good at all those theory stuff, can only talk from my own experience.

 

 

Another thing is APM were a bit "low", usually can go by 48-49APM which would've been a bit more dps, but yeah I am not a robot.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/26372082-19a4-407a-9022-520c202def62

 

this is an exact copy of my character if anyone is curious, besides the power is not 1038 but 1002 because AMR is a bit bugged. Mods stack there even if you remove and replace them.

 

When I check out your character on Mr Robot I see Dread Guard Equipment... You sure this is the right link?

 

That build also says you play with 116 Crit Rating and 104,68% melee accuracy, is that correct? It looks more like Watchman gear to me...

[Ausgelebt]

I use the Dread Guard Power Click relic, because of its static power it is very close to the underworld relic(and if you have phases where you have to delay the cooldown it is better).

 

You are correct, AMR somehow messed it up with my old pre 2.0 profile.

 

here is the correct one http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/0f3e9489-6c7b-4116-8d44-46d2c44d6d59

Edited July 17, 2013 by Ausgelebt

[Karaya_One]

Spec

 

The optimal spec for a combat sentinel is 5/36/5. Two of the points in Focus (specifically, Swelling Winds) have no effect on the single-target rotation, and can thus be floated to any of the trees. I like to buff the AoE for situations where it is necessary (especially trash pulls), and since there isn't much else within reach that is compelling, we may as well go that route.

 

One interesting discussion is Swift Slash (increased crit chance on Dispatch) vs a second point in Valor (faster Centering building). I had previously calculated that Swift Slash was a marginally superior option, though more RNG dependent. Oofalong helpfully pointed out several errors in my calculations which completely invalidate the conclusion. For more details, see this reply.

 

 

Thanks for helping to put the guide together as it helped elucidate some of the finer points regarding the prioritization of abilities. One question I still have, however, is whether 5/36/5 is still the optimal spec to use now that Oofalong seems to have demonstrated the superiority of 2/2 Valor vis-a-vis Swift Slash. If it no longer recommended to get Swift Slash, does having points in Swelling Winds make any sense?

 

To my mind, I would think that putting those two additional points in Jedi Crusader would be preferable as you could pop Rebuke during any fight where there is raid-wide damage and get a nice focus boost. To be sure, this is situational and won't be of benefit in every fight but I can't imagine any situation in which I would choose to use Cyclone Slash or Sweep.

 

With that being said, I'm not the best at theorycrafting and still have much to learn regarding Combat spec generally, so there might be something I'm overlooking. As such, would greatly appreciate some input from those more knowledgeable than myself.

 

Regards,

[KeyboardNinja]

Thanks for helping to put the guide together as it helped elucidate some of the finer points regarding the prioritization of abilities. One question I still have, however, is whether 5/36/5 is still the optimal spec to use now that Oofalong seems to have demonstrated the superiority of 2/2 Valor vis-a-vis Swift Slash. If it no longer recommended to get Swift Slash, does having points in Swelling Winds make any sense?

 

To my mind, I would think that putting those two additional points in Jedi Crusader would be preferable as you could pop Rebuke during any fight where there is raid-wide damage and get a nice focus boost. To be sure, this is situational and won't be of benefit in every fight but I can't imagine any situation in which I would choose to use Cyclone Slash or Sweep.

 

I've tried that spec, and I do use it on boss fights with a lot of raid damage. However, I don't think it makes sense as a general spec. Swelling Winds is a really good talent in that it makes Force Sweep actually useful. Trash is still a part of every operation, and beefing up our AoE even a little bit is nice.

 

Honestly though, you can do whatever you want with those two points. It doesn't matter all that much. Even Insight isn't all that compelling (since it only affects Cauterize, which is a low priority). You basically have five spare points that you can spend in any way you choose. I feel that 5/36/5 is the most well-rounded build, but 5/38/3 would be fine (picking up any of the utilities in Combat), or even 5/41/0 (though this build would definitely sacrifice a small amount of damage).

[oofalong]

For every fight, this is the best allocation of your first 41 skill points. After this allocation, you will have 5 points left. There are a number of options, and it is dependent on the fight. In order of what I think has the most utility:

 

1. Swelling WInds: Increases AoE damage, which is great for killing adds
   
2. Fleetfooted: Makes everyone run faster, and gives you a way to break snares
   
3. Merciless Zeal: Cauterize provides a DPS gain, and this provides additional utility from it
   
4. Insight: This increase the utility of Merciless Zeal
   

[KeyboardNinja]

For every fight, this is the best allocation of your first 41 skill points. After this allocation, you will have 5 points left. There are a number of options, and it is dependent on the fight. In order of what I think has the most utility:

 

1. Swelling WInds: Increases AoE damage, which is great for killing adds
   
2. Fleetfooted: Makes everyone run faster, and gives you a way to break snares
   
3. Merciless Zeal: Cauterize provides a DPS gain, and this provides additional utility from it
   
4. Insight: This increase the utility of Merciless Zeal
   

 

I'm surprised that you take Jedi Crusader over Fleetfooted. I find that the snare breaker is a lot more useful on nearly all fights, given the ICD on the focus proc and the natural CD on Rebuke. Now that we're not doing EC anymore, I don't find myself needing Transcendence except for very weird moments on TfB Kephess.

 

It is true though that Jedi Crusader represents a DPS gain, however minute, while Fleetfooted is simply a utility power.

Edited July 18, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

[Mr_Fuzzle]

Personally I'll take Jedi Crusader and Fleetfooted over Saber Screen for the following reasons; with Combat any sort of resource generation is good to have even if it is infrequent (it's great on Heirad if you get hit with lightning and for Titan 6), Fleetfooted's snare breaker is particularly useful for any fight with a slow or root attached to a knockback (I'm specifically thinking Dash'roode), the extra speed attached to Force Camo from Fleetfooted is can help close the gap between targets if your leap is on cooldown (the Whorror depending on group comp, the Dread Guard during the second and third phases), and finally an extra 3% damage reduction is nice, but if you're taking damage you could be generating Focus through Jedi Crusader. That's my 2 cents on this. Feel free to correct any sort of logic errors in there.

[oofalong]

I'm surprised that you take Jedi Crusader over Fleetfooted. I find that the snare breaker is a lot more useful on nearly all fights, given the ICD on the focus proc and the natural CD on Rebuke. Now that we're not doing EC anymore, I don't find myself needing Transcendence except for very weird moments on TfB Kephess.

 

It is true though that Jedi Crusader represents a DPS gain, however minute, while Fleetfooted is simply a utility power.

 

I should have rephrased my comment the 41 points I initially allocated represent the starting place. Obviously we need 36 points in the Combat tree, and the 5 points in Watchman are essential as well. To get 36 points in Combat, you need to invest 4 points in some combination of the following:

 

• Fleetfooted
  
• Jedi Crusader
  
• Saber Screen
  

 

You may even want to invest more than in all of them. Each fight is unique and you should be prepared to respec to optimize your utility and survivability. For instance, in EC Kephess Fleetfooted was a great ability to use to get out of the purple circle; it also helped with Zorn & Toth. This ability is also useful in S&V Dash'roode as Force Camo will remove any slows the rats put on you when you get lost. In S&V Thrasher and TfB Dread Guard, Jedi Crusader will be valuable as there is a lot of damage going out. This also makes Saber Screen attractive. This is in no way an exhaustive list just some quick observations.

 

As final note, Insight is most valuable when you also invest in Merciless Zeal. The burn from Cauterize should be the only Force attack that does not autocrit as Combat.

[Emperor-Norton]

First I want to say this is a great guide and it is what got me to (a bit reluctantly, I still prefer the difficulty of Watchman) to switch to Combat. There is one interesting thing I found out that I think people may like: you can fit Dispatch, Master Strike, and Blade Storm into one PS window without Zen. Now, don't bite my head off and listen a minute. KBN acknowledges that Dispatch is not a good follow up to MS without Zen with PS for one reason, it hits at the end of the GCD and it could cause you to miss the PS window. The solution? Use Dispatch before PS, but before it hits the target, use PS (you have about 1 second to do this). Dispatch will still get the benefit of PS's 100% Armor Pen, and you can then fit Master Strike and Blade Storm into the rest of the Window without Zen. Edited July 20, 2013 by Emperor-Norton

[Ausgelebt]

First I want to say this is a great guide and it is what got me to (a bit reluctantly, I still prefer the difficulty of Watchman) to switch to Combat. There is one interesting thing I found out that I think people may like: you can fit Dispatch, Master Strike, and Blade Storm into one PS window without Zen. Now, don't bite my head off and listen a minute. KBN acknowledges that Dispatch is not a good follow up to MS without Zen with PS for one reason, it hits at the end of the GCD and it could cause you to miss the PS window. The solution? Use Dispatch before PS, but before it hits the target, use PS (you have about 1 second to do this). Dispatch will still get the benefit of PS's 100% Armor Pen, and you can then fit Master Strike and Blade Storm into the rest of the Window without Zen.

 

Show a video please.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Ausgelebt

[ATGII]

Show a video please.

I would also like some verification of this. I can understand that method of thinking however because of the nature of the dispatch animation and when the damage actually registered but I find that difficult/impossible to accomplish without proof via a combat log or some sort of video.

 

That being said, I do love this guide KeyboardNinja and I agree with everything here except that I use master strike a bit more often than most and I find that it depends on the situation although generally I like putting it in the second PS window especially if I can get dispatch and BS in the first window while getting the OA proc before MS. This is most easy to accomplish with zen active naturally.

[Emperor-Norton]

Show a video please.

I would also like some verification of this. I can understand that method of thinking however because of the nature of the dispatch animation and when the damage actually registered but I find that difficult/impossible to accomplish without proof via a combat log or some sort of video.

 

That being said, I do love this guide KeyboardNinja and I agree with everything here except that I use master strike a bit more often than most and I find that it depends on the situation although generally I like putting it in the second PS window especially if I can get dispatch and BS in the first window while getting the OA proc before MS. This is most easy to accomplish with zen active naturally.

Since I do not have any software for recording on my PC, nor do I care to do so, I will provide a combat log. You can check the entire thing if you like, but at 19:51:50.863 in the parse you see Dispatch hits ~.3 seconds after PS applies yet Dispatch is clearly activated first, and Dispatch hits for the damage you would suspect with PS up. Then I use both Master Strike and Blade Storm with PS still up, but with no Zen. Anyway, hopefully this can help you rival the 3028 DPS in 5 minutes I did in that parse.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Emperor-Norton

[Ardarell_Solo]

OPENER

For the same reasons listed above, I start with Force Leap>Zealous Strike>PS>BR>BR>BR and then BS if OA has procced, Dispatch if it has not but HoJ has, all of which falls in the PS window. Then, assuming HoJ has procced, I proceed to PS>MS and end with Dispatch, or BS if I used Dispatch in the first window. I focus most of my attention on positioning, and chances are even if I take my eyes off the buff bar at the wrong moment, all my procs will hit where they are supposed to any way.

 

I had read your first thread on this specc, it's what got me started trying it, so thx for that and especially your elaboration on it here! I emphatically agree with what you are saying about a "rotation/priority" system designed for complex raid situations as opposed to "hammering away" at the dummy ;-)

 

The only thing I have problems with, is the OPENER (hence the quote): It happens annoyingly often (and surely more often than you'd expect) that Hand of Justice procs before first Precision Slash, thus cancelling your second Precision window in the opener. Two questions regarding that:

 

1. How do you go on, if that happens? I'd say: exactly in the same way, just without second precision slash...

 

2. It has been discussed before, but not with your "Blade Rush Spam" opener in the first window:

 

To avoid premature Hand of Justice proc, could it make sense to do Precision Slash right after Force Leap and thus substitute one Blade Rush with Zealous Strike while Precision is up?

i.e.: (Zen+offensive CDs) Leap>Precision Slash>Zealous Strike> Blade Rush>Blade Rush>Blade Storm

 

<- Assuming Zen is up, there will still be two Blade Rushes in the opener to proc Hand of Justice, that should work.

Or should it even be:

(Zen+offensive CDs) Leap>Precision Slash>Blade Rush>Zealous Strike> Blade Rush>Blade Storm

<- so Zealous Strike is buffed by enhanced Proc Chance via the first Blade Rush?

Edited July 22, 2013 by Ardarell_Solo

[KeyboardNinja]

I had read your first thread on this specc, it's what got me started trying it, so thx for that and especially your elaboration on it here! I emphatically agree with what you are saying about a "rotation/priority" system designed for complex raid situations as opposed to "hammering away" at the dummy ;-)

 

The only thing I have problems with, is the OPENER (hence the quote): It happens annoyingly often (and surely more often than you'd expect) that Hand of Justice procs before first Precision Slash, thus cancelling your second Precision window in the opener. Two questions regarding that:

 

1. How do you go on, if that happens? I'd say: exactly in the same way, just without second precision slash...

 

Basically, yes. It sucks, but it doesn't happen as often as you would think. One of the things I've been playing with is activating PS just a hair early, so that it actually gets in *before* the Ataru hit from Zealous Strike. This means that I only need to worry about Force Leap activating HoJ, which has a very, very low probability.

 

2. It has been discussed before, but not with your "Blade Rush Spam" opener in the first window:

 

To avoid premature Hand of Justice proc, could it make sense to do Precision Slash right after Force Leap and thus substitute one Blade Rush with Zealous Strike while Precision is up?

i.e.: (Zen+offensive CDs) Leap>Precision Slash>Zealous Strike> Blade Rush>Blade Rush>Blade Storm

 

It was suggested earlier in the thread. The problem is that you miss out on your highest damage PS window if you do that, because you can no longer squeeze Master Strike in without losing Dispatch or Blade Storm in the second window (due to Zen charges). I just don't feel that the expected values are significant enough, given the low proc probability. I parsed recently with a bit of gear massaging and a slightly adjusted priority queue and shattered my previous record, even though that particular parse had *two* premature HoJ procs over the course of five minutes. It's a significant issue, but not as significant as it would seem.