Dear fanbase... Why?

[ApostleThirst]

So, here we are, playing a MMO. Star Wars, the Old Republic, actually. It's actually free to play, but we subscribed, because we want full access to the game, right?

 

See, the problem I have is that for any other game, we wouldn't expect to receive rewards just for buying it. The reward would be the game itself. If we bought Halo 4, we expect to be able to play... Halo 4. There aren't any special discounts for being a long time Halo fan. There aren't any random in game drops that are like "Hey, you're awesome, just like everyone else who bought this game! Enjoy a rocket launcher for the next couple of stages!"

 

We bought the game so that we could play it. Yet we demand that we be given extra for doing exactly what we do with every other game. You paid to have fun, to enjoy the storyline, to have a good time with the other players. And instead of just one storyline and character, we have at least 8, which split into further playstyles. This game has an incredible replay value for the $15 we paid for a month of subscribing - it would be the rough equivalent of, say, Halo 4 for $15? That's if you only stuck to one character, when there are many many different possibilities, as I just said.

 

Then we go and hate on Bioware as a whole for displeasing us over one little thing! Bioware, the same company that made Mass Effect, for Emperor's sake. Yes, the ending was bad but was the ride there not spectacular? Let's not even talk about KOTOR the original, or Baldur's Gate, or any number of the great titles they've put out.

 

 

 

My point is, Bioware and this game aren't perfect, but I really, really feel like I've spent my money well on this game. I enjoy the time I spend with my guildmates, or questing, or dominating the GTN, or whatever. Getting upset over Treek, or the Sub appreciation thing not being 'good enough' (when they didn't even need to do it in the first place), or whatever other excuse people use to get mad - it just doesn't work for me. I'd rather be playing The Old Republic with a smile on my face than complaining about the few flaws that it has.

 

... and that's all I have to say about that

[BrianEvol]

I agree.

[Superman_AZ]

Agreed. I wish more people were appreciative and silent. But, complainers will complain. Someday, they might figure out what constructive feedback looks like and leave some. Until then.... PARTY ON DARTH!

 

[Tommot]

It's because a lot of people only go to forums like this when they have an issue or something to complain about. This is very apparent when a server goes down or something. People get kicked out of their game, so obviously the first place they go to is the forums. It's much more rare for someone to go out of their way just to say they are happy with a service. I'm sure most of the fanbase enjoys the game just as much as you and me. IMO people seem MUCH happier in-game than they do on these forums. Almost like it's two completely different communities.

[Hessen]

The playerbase is only partially responsible for having unrealistic expectations. The marketing and community interaction promised a lot that it didn't deliver (and still continues to).

 

I think the 1-50 journey and the "out of the box" game itself is worth the price of the game and maybe a month or two's subscription and is a very good product and deserves a degree of praise. But anything more than that and you're hitting generic MMO content but with lightsabers territory.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Hessen

[Cyberwoman]

Agree completely. I have been subscribing for around a year and a half now, and in my mind it has always been money very well spent.

[Grendel_Prime]

I agree. I got the game for a Christmas present at launch and have been a sub since. As far as my entertainment dollar goes I look at it this way as part of an entertainment budget.

 

If I go to a movie, it costs me $25 for 2 hours. So $12.50/hour for entertainment. So if I play SWTOR for 1.2 hours I'm on par with seeing a movie. If I play for an hour a week I'm at $3.48/hour. If I play an hour a day I'm at $.49/hour. I'm okay with this because it's entertainment that I enjoy immensely. The Subscriber Appreciation is nice and all, but really I'm quite happy to be a sub because I like the game. I'm not hardcore, I don't look for "end game". I just play.

 

Not sure what happened to people like me, maybe we're just generally really quiet:)

[Jeweledleah]

see, back when the only way to get the game was to buy it and subscribe - sure it was worth it.

 

but nowadays. game is free. I don't have to subscribe to play it. I don't have to keep subscribing to keep playing it. so... why should I? what is my incentive? few minor conveniences that can be circumvented through cartel market unlocks (that others sell on GTN so I don't even have to pay any extra real life money for them)? goodness of my heart?

 

the game is great. the game is fun. its the subscription model that's... not so great IMO.

 

because call me a jerk or whatever, but I don't see why I should give money to someone when I don't have to. unless giving money comes with benefits I cannot get for free.

[CKHelseth]

I'd rather be playing The Old Republic with a smile on my face than complaining about the few flaws that it has.

 

Then why are you on the forums complaining about people complaining? My guess is they are pretty decent people with maybe a few flaws, just like this is a good game with a few flaws. Either way you are both happy to point them out. Equally useless or equally valid.

 

My flaw, of course, would be pointing out people's hypocrisy when it's wrapped in smug fanboy "wisdom"...

Edited July 5, 2013 by CKHelseth

[jubakumbi]

but I don't see why I should give money to someone when I don't have to. unless giving money comes with benefits I cannot get for free.

 

Because if they don't make money, then the game will not get additions and will shutdown.

 

It really is that simple.

 

If you enjoy the game, give it money so more can be added to it.

[DisIzMe]

My main 3 issues with the game are:

1 - amount of additional free content for subscribers post ftp is microscopic.The only other MMO that i play/ed - WOT ,which is not in the same league as SWTOR and EA on every base and uses totally different financial model- released so much more content for free to all that it is actually looks very sad in comparison.

 

2- All the content that was released in SWTOR - free for subscribers or not - is content that was being developed long before the shift to ftp. For an example - 2 new fps are actually single fp announced long ago being cut in two.

The explanations that they sacked a lot of staff and ctr do not satisfy me one bit since there is lots of cartel market content that is being developed.

 

3 - Ancient bugs are not being fixed. I am not talking about inbuilt issues due to engine and coding , but even simple stuff like being pushed through floor on Esseles is not being fixed.

And those are things that you (and me) as a subscribers pay for every month, too. It's not just access to existing content. It is future development,too. Would you still pay for SWTOR if you knew that bugs are to stay and nothing new will be available to you as a subscriber unless you'd pay additional fee?

P.S

Please ,do not bring ME3,prices of movies or other totally unrelated strawmen issues into discussion. This is SWTOR, MMO. Compare it to other games from same genre.

[Grendel_Prime]

because call me a jerk or whatever, but I don't see why I should give money to someone when I don't have to. unless giving money comes with benefits I cannot get for free.

 

I can certainly see that and wouldn't call someone a jerk over they're choice of subbing or not subbing. I dislike the feeling of entitlement some sub people have. I've played my share of FTP games and the limits I've experienced in them (or using in game currency to unlock things subs get for free) isn't something I'd care to experience in SWTOR. I like that my CC stipend doesn't have to be used for things like character slots or inventory space or having a cap on my credits. The fact that they gave me 500 more CC "just because" is awesome from my point of view. I wasn't expecting it, didn't ask for it and certainly wouldn't say "that's not sufficient".

 

I may be in the minority but I feel like dollar for dollar I get my money's worth from my sub.

[Grendel_Prime]

Please ,do not bring ME3,prices of movies or other totally unrelated strawmen issues into discussion. This is SWTOR, MMO. Compare it to other games from same genre.

 

It depends on how you look at. I don't see it as a strawman argument at all. Many of us work within a certain budget and part of any budget you can keep to has to allow for "entertainment" and the like or you simply have a much harder time sticking to it.

 

So, in my case at least, I have to factor in the fact that my SWTOR sub not only represents my support of the game but also a chunk of my entertainment budget each month, along with movies, new game purchases etc. The value I get from my sub has to take into account "is this money that would better serve me elsewhere?". Nothing exists in a vacuum.

[CKHelseth]

Please ,do not bring ME3,prices of movies or other totally unrelated strawmen issues into discussion. This is SWTOR, MMO. Compare it to other games from same genre.

 

I don't think so. We are talking about the expectations of people paying money for something they care deeply about. I think that while the media, or genre within it may be different the behavior is the same.

Edited July 5, 2013 by CKHelseth

[RisenDragon]

So, here we are, playing a MMO. Star Wars, the Old Republic, actually. It's actually free to play, but we subscribed, because we want full access to the game, right? -snip-

 

My point is, Bioware and this game aren't perfect, but I really, really feel like I've spent my money well on this game. I enjoy the time I spend with my guildmates, or questing, or dominating the GTN, or whatever. Getting upset over Treek, or the Sub appreciation thing not being 'good enough' (when they didn't even need to do it in the first place), or whatever other excuse people use to get mad - it just doesn't work for me. I'd rather be playing The Old Republic with a smile on my face than complaining about the few flaws that it has.... and that's all I have to say about that

 

For me, the thing is that this game did not originate as free to play, and I joined it at that time. Since the shift to free to play, there has been little, if any, incentive to remain a subscriber as each subsequent update to the game has been increasingly cartel market oriented and less about actual in-game content besides rehashing the same content at an increased difficulty- and given how difficult it is for a casual player to obtain the gear needed for Nightmare runs, it's not exactly useful for a significant portion of the community.

 

I agree that the game and its developers are not perfect, and indeed I am glad that they aren't. Being part of a community as it evolves into somehting better is a wonderful thing, and is part of the reson why I subbed at launch (just missed the beta phase.) I knew that the game was going to be unpolished and incomplete, but the potential for greatness 3, 5, or 10 years down the line was limitless. I mean, it's freaking Star Wars!

 

I still like this game. I love the community that I game with when I can. I am still (for now) going to remain a subscriber. I just wish that the dev team would show some sign that they are listening to the (sometimes) constructive criticism and (sometimes) good ideas put forth by the community. We all acknowledge that this game is unfinished; that it has room for improvement. We stick around because we hope that the game will move in that direction.

[Pubsam]

We bought the game so that we could play it. Yet we demand that we be given extra for doing exactly what we do with every other game.

 

We bought a game that is currently being given away for free. We now choose the option to pay money and in return we expect goods in return. BW is not a charity, we are purchasing things. Any complaints made are by people who feel the deal isn't great.

 

If you think the deal is a good one, then that's good for you. But people can complain all they want, and I cannot fathom why you'd care to hinder them. If they succeed subscribers would get more things. YOU would get more things. You think people want BW to spoil them, that people feel entitled to more. Well, it's BW's decision what they get, and since you think subs get enough as it is, it doesn't seem like you should really have a stake in this argument. If BW ignores complaints/requests you're still happy, but if they respond and give presents then you get presents.

 

And the point of this thread is...? BW doesn't need you to protect them. Trust me, they won't be bullied into giving subs any more than they care to.

[LordArtemis]

I would mention as a mild counterpoint, however, that complaints are vital to the health of the game. Perhaps they could be more constructive....but I think that without harsh feedback this game would languish.

 

And I also believe Bioware seeks this kind of feedback and encourages it.

[Jeweledleah]

It depends on how you look at. I don't see it as a strawman argument at all. Many of us work within a certain budget and part of any budget you can keep to has to allow for "entertainment" and the like or you simply have a much harder time sticking to it.

 

So, in my case at least, I have to factor in the fact that my SWTOR sub not only represents my support of the game but also a chunk of my entertainment budget each month, along with movies, new game purchases etc. The value I get from my sub has to take into account "is this money that would better serve me elsewhere?". Nothing exists in a vacuum.

 

this is a good way of putting it.

 

for me, often time, subscribing to TOR mean not buying that indie game that caught my interest but not as much as TOR does, or not getting another e-book.

 

my entertainment budget is finite. supporting the game is not a good enough reason for me at this point. I actually backed 3 successful projects on kickstarter. with each and every one of them, aside from helping the project become reality through funds.. I got something out of it, whether its a video game, an e-book or finished art.

 

but you get something out of SWTOR - hours of enjoyment! you say. except. like I said. I can get those same hours of enjoyment for free AND have money left over for other varieties of enjoyment.

 

so in short. I love TOR. its my main MMO right now and a video game I play the most. but I no longer feel like subscription fee is a good deal for me.

[GusPorterhouse]

This game has never deserved the sheer amount of hate that it has gotten from day one. I understand disappointment, because there were some promises made that have yet to be fulfilled, and I understand annoyance and even anger at some of the issues the game has had (and still has), but I have never understood why so many people WANT this to fail.

[ApostleThirst]

This game has never deserved the sheer amount of hate that it has gotten from day one. I understand disappointment, because there were some promises made that have yet to be fulfilled, and I understand annoyance and even anger at some of the issues the game has had (and still has), but I have never understood why so many people WANT this to fail.

 

That's why I've said what I've said with this thread. To me, whenever I've bought a Bioware game I've been pleased with the result. I wanted to show my appreciation for that with more than just my money, which is just a statistic to them. There have been so many people demanding that this game is/will be miserable - so I put a voice out to show that there is more than just those haters.

[Driveinns]

I agree O.P.

[Grayseven]

That's why I've said what I've said with this thread. To me, whenever I've bought a Bioware game I've been pleased with the result. I wanted to show my appreciation for that with more than just my money, which is just a statistic to them. There have been so many people demanding that this game is/will be miserable - so I put a voice out to show that there is more than just those haters.

 

So anyone who disagrees with you is a hater? Or entitled?

 

No.

 

Forums are the voice of the players, a voice that will not always be rainbows and sunshine. People without issues most often do not tend to raise their voices. In life you will hear mostly from people who do have issues with something...regardless of what that is. How many times do politicians get messages from their constituents that simply say "good job"? A mere fraction of the times they get messages telling them what a bad job they are doing.

 

The unsatisfied raise their voice so that the object of their ire KNOWS they are unsatisfied. Otherwise, the target of their ire will probably take the silence for consent and do it again.

 

So your thinly veiled insult post is nothing more than you raising your voice in ire at people who raised their voice in ire of actions of EA/BW.

 

You are no better than the people you are attempting to flame. In fact, you are worse because you try to disguise your pedantic rant as something constructive.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Grayseven

[ApostleThirst]

So anyone who disagrees with you is a hater? Or entitled?

 

No..

 

No is right. I don't stoop to such generalizations. I will say this though - they do lack perspective.

 

The important part is that this doesn't make them bad or evil or stupid or anything like that. Misguided is the word I would use. And who among us has not been misguided at some point or another? Is there anyone who has never said something they firmly believe in only to be proven wrong?

 

As you say - no.

 

 

So your thinly veiled insult post is nothing more than you raising your voice in ire at people who raised their voice in ire of actions of EA/BW.

 

You are no better than the people you are attempting to flame. In fact, you are worse because you try to disguise your pedantic rant as something constructive.

 

Saying that someone is wrong, and providing reasoning as to why, is not insulting them. I won't deny that I was... less than kind, but I never said that applies to everyone, merely those that, well, it applies to.

 

 

Finally, Bioware doesn't deserve the overwhelming negative feedback it has gotten. As I've said before - I'm trying to balance that out. Call it a case of OCD. Maybe throw in some sympathy to my fellow artists who work for the company. But trying to flame the people on the other side was never my intent, nor will it ever be. I am merely using them to contrast my own appreciation.

 

Please, stop making assumptions. They benefit no-one.

[ElitehunterDS]

No is right. I don't stoop to such generalizations. I will say this though - they do lack perspective.

Lack perspective? The game is lacking on almost all aspect, no where near what they promised, the engine is a disaster (been like that since release), their main focus is the CM without caring about their subscribers and the lack of bugfixes, sorry to say but taking 6-7 weeks to fix 3 bugs and add 25 new ones each time how many will we get by the year end?

 

I gave Bioware a chance since release but Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

 

P.s. i came to this conclusion by playing Anarchy online for 3 weeks, its more supported by their dev than this game.. like really.. I wont even name GW2 who got more content patch in 6 month than swtor got in 18 months, which is sad really.

Edited July 6, 2013 by ElitehunterDS

[Grayseven]

Don't tell someone to stop making assumptions when making a ton of your own...

 

EA/BW does deserve a lot of the negative commentary they are getting. There are still bugs that have existed since launch that have not been addressed let alone fixed. They do not provide CS support for a large and important part of the game. They have concentrated their art assets on cash shop items to the detriment of game earned items. They take new content and put it in as a cash only option just because it is "fluff". Many mistakes have been and continue to be made by EA/BW and if no one says anything they might not realize their mistake until the servers become ghost towns.

 

Thing is, if no one says anything it won't get fixed. Even something as seemingly inconsequential as the subscriber appreciation stipend. While it is something that we didn't have before, and it will allow some players to purchase something they want, many players are of the opinion that EA/BW took the easy way out instead of using resources to create something that would make subscribers feel that EA/BW values them as a customer.

 

It's like me giving the girlfriend a Valentine's Day coupon for a romantic dinner and some cuddle time. I'm going to give her both of those anyway...and not just on Valentine's Day...so I instead give her a dozen roses to show her how much I appreciate her. I'd love to be able to afford to give her a dozen roses every day but it's not possible because those are some expensive flowers.

 

I get 500 CC every month. I'm going to get those every month I subscribe. Giving me a bonus months worth doesn't really show appreciation they way a gift that took effort and time would.

 

How about the Friend referral speeder as an example of a gift that took effort? Not only do you not see a lot of those around, but I haven't seen a reskinned version of it either. Why couldn't that kind of effort for a limited group be repeated to show appreciation for a much larger group? Even if you don't like the look or care about vehicles, it shows some effort.

 

Dissent is healthy. Think of it as the chemical triggers that cause white blood cells to attack an infection.