Anyone else a massive fan of Doctor Who?

[Jrr_hypernova]

Captain jack harkness needs to make a come back as a companion

[chuixupu]

They are really shaking things up lately. This doctor is such a throwback. I don't think a lot of the "modern" fans understand that.

 

Clara and the doctor's relationship is doomed, even if they patch things up. They just don't see eye to eye on many things, even with their tight relationship.

 

It's a throwback in a lot of ways, but at the same time, it's very new. I'm a big fan of the classic series, and while certain doctors in the past have been more distant and alien, Capaldi does things I've never seen any Doctor do before. He's further over to the other side of the spectrum than even McCoy, who was incredibly cold and manipulative at times, or Tom Baker's earlier days, Colin Baker's early bouts of insanity (he became a cuddly teddy bear before the end) or even Hartnell's first couple of stories when he was really a grumpy jerk...he lightened up pretty fast after that. I have some theories about what might be going on. I don't think it's as simple as a random regeneration effect. He even asks, "Who frowned this face?"

 

It reminds me of an audio drama from 2004 with the 8th doctor where he gets split into three aspects of himself - One is kind of normal, the other is a childish, hyperactive, sort of naive but very clever version they call "Tigger", then there's a bitter, grumpy, manipulative, almost abusive version they call "Eeyore". We saw in Amy's choice that he has a dark side of his personality and some self-loathing. In Time Heist he repeated that he hates "The Architect", that turned out to be him. Then throw in this scene: http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh191/jane_eris/Deep%20Breath/vlcsnap-2014-09-14-00h15m02s167_zps69c6ab7f.jpg

"She needs three mirrors".

 

So maybe there are aspects of his personalty that haven't fully emerged yet for whatever reason. It's kind of what it feels like to me - He's very much the Doctor - but it seems like there's a piece missing,

 

Of course most likely I'm totally wrong, and all that might all just be little unrelated references that have nothing to do with the plot, but I am a little bit chuffed to see all the little references anyway. There are so many little Easter eggs from past episodes in this season.

[LtGeneralGezlin]

So... Missy... I didn't see that, but I do love the reveal!

[Jrr_hypernova]

Totally called it.

[chuixupu]

Funny thing, there were all kinds of casting rumors early on, even some claims to be "in the know" by Sylvester McCoy. After a while, I started to think it was all bunk...and names themselves may have been (I suspect we'll get the full story some day).

So when the final week rolled around and it came to light that they actually removed the reveal scene from the press release discs so they wouldn't leak it, and Rachel Talalay claimed that she "Shrieked" when she heard who she was doing ADR in the studio since it was mimed to keep people from hearing, I knew it was going to be *something* like that. My fear was that she was going to just be another Clara, lol. Glad that wasn't the case.

 

I enjoyed it, though, really good episode.

[AshlaBoga]

So anyone else think missy is the master? Time lords can change tender in regeneration right?

 

Do you work for Moffat or something?

 

Your psychic powers, I want them.

[chuixupu]

It wasn't that hard to figure out.

 

Missy = Mistress, feminine for Master

 

My biggest reason for believing it wouldn't be that is that it was almost too obvious.

[Arkerus]

This season was great and not so great all at the same time.

 

The show's new direction was a nice departure from the love stories and "always perfect" endings of the past. It really showed that the doctor was not perfect and that Clara had strong emotions as well. Some of the new characters were well done: The Doctor, Missy, some of the villians.

 

The problem was that the writing was extremely inconsistent and the direction was sloppy at times. I got so tired of the Doctor and Clara fighting all the time. It also irked me that the doctor was largely a bystander in many episodes. I admit, I miss the previous era where the doctor was so brilliant he had it all figured out from the start and we (the audience) were basically waiting to see HOW he did it. It was so much fun to watch. Remember the cliff hangers from previous seasons? Yeah, I want those back.

 

Peter Capaldi plays a great, darker, alien, pragmatic doctor. Now please give him the script to support the role! I am also ready for Clara to move on. She had a lot of growth this season and yes, she fit the role but honestly I am sick of her character.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Arkerus

[chuixupu]

 

The problem was that the writing was extremely inconsistent and the direction was sloppy at times.

 

That's pretty normal, though. Most seasons are a mixed bag, some more than others. Take season 2, for instance. The only really good script in that whole season, IMO, was The Girl in the Fireplace. A few fun episodes, and a few of the worst of all the show's history (Love and Monsters, Fear Hear, The Idiot's Lantern). The first half of season 3 was kind of crap, but the second half was great. Mostly loved 4 and 5, 6 was a bit insane and confusing, 7 was up and down.... so yeah.

 

I think the problem that Moffat has a tendency to try and tie too many things together, and not in a satisfying manner. He raises a lot of questions, and either sweeps them under the rug or attaches it to something else.

 

Jamie Mathieson wrote some excellent stories (Mummy On the Orient Express and Flatline) and I hope he'll have time to write more, although he picked up a lead writer gig for another show, so he might not be able to.

 

Dark Water started out really promising, but other than being a fun rollercoaster of an episode, not much actually happened in Death in Heaven. I think I'll still take that over "The End of Time", though.

 

 

I got so tired of the Doctor and Clara fighting all the time. It also irked me that the doctor was largely a bystander in many episodes. I admit, I miss the previous era where the doctor was so brilliant he had it all figured out from the start and we (the audience) were basically waiting to see HOW he did it. It was so much fun to watch.

 

I thought Capaldi incredibly fun to watch. He's a bit more like Classic doctors in a lot of ways. He's also in a lot of senses starting over and rediscovering himself. I don't know exactly what you mean, though, that may have happened occasionally, but not often.

 

 

Remember the cliff hangers from previous seasons? Yeah, I want those back.

 

You mean back in the 60s-80's when the stories were 4-10 episode serials that each had a cliffhanger? Yes, I do miss that.

 

I'm hoping Clara will leave soon too, I think she had interesting development this season, I've become tired of her and all her involvement in the Doctor's history.

Edited November 14, 2014 by chuixupu

[Orizuru]

Sadly, I think Clara will be back in the next series, or at least the Christmas special. There is still at least one loose thread in her story. She met a descendant of her and Danny Pink in the future. So there is a fixed point in time that basically requires that she have at least one child with Danny.

 

So either Danny comes back or Clara is already pregnant. Its a small enough plot that it could be resolved in the Christmas special though. Or we learn that the Master managed to change the future somehow and all of the Doctor's rules go out the window.

[chuixupu]

The Doctor has changed the future...and if you think about it, we know very little about Orson Pink or whether that even is a fixed point.

 

A lot of people thought she might be pregnant because on the sticky notes in her room, one said "3 months".

 

I know Jenna at least does appear in the Christmas special, and so far she has not yet announced her departure or anything else she is going to be working on, which you would think you'd see by now if she has filmed her last appearance.

Edited November 14, 2014 by chuixupu

[Arkerus]

That's pretty normal, though. Most seasons are a mixed bag, some more than others. Take season 2, for instance. The only really good script in that whole season, IMO, was The Girl in the Fireplace. A few fun episodes, and a few of the worst of all the show's history (Love and Monsters, Fear Hear, The Idiot's Lantern). The first half of season 3 was kind of crap, but the second half was great. Mostly loved 4 and 5, 6 was a bit insane and confusing, 7 was up and down.... so yeah.

 

I think the problem that Moffat has a tendency to try and tie too many things together, and not in a satisfying manner. He raises a lot of questions, and either sweeps them under the rug or attaches it to something else.

 

Jamie Mathieson wrote some excellent stories (Mummy On the Orient Express and Flatline) and I hope he'll have time to write more, although he picked up a lead writer gig for another show, so he might not be able to.

 

Dark Water started out really promising, but other than being a fun rollercoaster of an episode, not much actually happened in Death in Heaven. I think I'll still take that over "The End of Time", though.

 

 

 

 

I thought Capaldi incredibly fun to watch. He's a bit more like Classic doctors in a lot of ways. He's also in a lot of senses starting over and rediscovering himself. I don't know exactly what you mean, though, that may have happened occasionally, but not often.

 

 

 

 

You mean back in the 60s-80's when the stories were 4-10 episode serials that each had a cliffhanger? Yes, I do miss that.

 

I'm hoping Clara will leave soon too, I think she had interesting development this season, I've become tired of her and all her involvement in the Doctor's history.

 

I don't completely disagree with you but I think you misunderstood the points I was making and tried to white wash a very inconsistent season with.." because that's the way it is".

 

Not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying you can't whitewash everything with "well that's the way it is". General consensus among a lot of critics this season was that Capaldi was great (agree) but the characters didn't maintain a constant character attitude. Moffat and the other writers kept changing who the characters were in each episode and to be honest I got a little tired of watching "Clara Who" instead of "Doctor Who".

 

I have watched since "classic who" and this season was by no means bad. It was rather great at certain times but the inconsistencies really got to me.

[chuixupu]

I'm not whitewashing it so much as just accepting that it's unlikely that Doctor Who will suddenly deliver on a level that it never has in 51 years. Seasons are up and down, some crap, some gold, with varying degrees. You just hope the gold will outweigh the crap. I think that was true of season 8, and I can't say that about every season.

 

I am tired of Clara who as well, but not nearly as tired as I was of Rose Who. Glad that only lasted two seasons. Oh wait, the Doctor spent the whole next season missing her, than she came back the next season again.

[Arkerus]

I'm not whitewashing it so much as just accepting that it's unlikely that Doctor Who will suddenly deliver on a level that it never has in 51 years. Seasons are up and down, some crap, some gold, with varying degrees. You just hope the gold will outweigh the crap. I think that was true of season 8, and I can't say that about every season.

 

I am tired of Clara who as well, but not nearly as tired as I was of Rose Who. Glad that only lasted two seasons. Oh wait, the Doctor spent the whole next season missing her, than she came back the next season again.

 

Just call us different. I thought this season DIDN'T deliver on expectations of just being a good season. I give it a rating of 5 or 6 out of 10. I felt it was "ok", not "good". I never had an expectation that it would deliver on a level MORE than the last few years. In fact, my expectations were actually lower and they failed to meet that. Not Capaldi personally, the show didn't meet my standard level expectations overall. There were some brilliant episodes where I thought they were getting back on track but then we had episodes like Robin Hood and the moon egg (seriously, moon egg?).

 

There are some interesting articles out in the past few days where Moffat does see the lower ratings but attributes it to DVR and streaming. That very well could be the case but for me, PERSONALLY, it felt like a disjointed season.

 

Capaldi has signed on for seasons 9 and 10 as well. I can dig that. I just want them to take a "deep breath" and look at their narrative and writing techniques.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Arkerus

[chuixupu]

Just call us different. I thought this season DIDN'T deliver on expectations of just being a good season. I give it a rating of 5 or 6 out of 10. I felt it was "ok", not "good". I never had an expectation that it would deliver on a level MORE than the last few years. In fact, my expectations were actually lower and they failed to meet that. Not Capaldi personally, the show didn't meet my standard level expectations overall. There were some brilliant episodes where I thought they were getting back on track but then we had episodes like Robin Hood and the moon egg (seriously, moon egg?).

 

Yeah, different. I'd give it an 8/10. Whereas I'd give season 2 a 5/10 in comparison. Yes, the Robin Hood episode was kind of lame, though fun (typical Gatiss episode) and the science aspect of Kill the Moon was goofy, and I could easily forget about "In The Forest of the Night", but then, remember, as I listed before, Love and Monsters? The Idiot's Lantern? Fear Her? They're all worse than ANY of the episodes in season 8. Also, Curse of the Black Spot, Silver Nemesis, half of season 1 and 3, The Sontaran Strategy/Poison Sky, Planet of the Dead, The Beast Below, etc.. all poop....Doctor Who always has poop! At least for someone. Maybe you thought those were all great. Then I divert back to people just have different opinions. I know people that think this is their favorite season ever, and some that think it's absolutely the worst.

 

There are some interesting articles out in the past few days where Moffat does see the lower ratings but attributes it to DVR and streaming. That very well could be the case but for me, PERSONALLY, it felt like a disjointed season.

 

Some articles out there really did a poor job in quoting Moffat, with click bait titles. He actually said that ratings haven't dropped, just that *overnights* are down slightly, while the overall reach including timeshifts are much higher, and iplayer downloads don't even factor in that, which are increasing each season as well (compare a few hundred thousand in 2005 to nearly 2 million now). Another complicated statistic to add in is that they currently don't track computer/mobile/tablet devices, which are actually the majority of devices used for iplayer.

 

TL;DL, the ratings have remained remarkably consistent for a 10 year old show, and we're seeing a shift in the way people watch TV in general. Less people watch live, more people DVR and download. Ratings in worldwide markets such a the US and AUS are also increasing.

 

Here is a breakdown of the ratings for the season, if you're curious.

 

As we're at the end of the run, how about something new?

 

Note: timeshift here refers to all post live viewers, not post overnight viewers as we often mean when we use the term.

 

Consolidated = Live + 7 Day Timeshift (% timeshifted)

 

1. 9.169m = 5.151m + 4.018m (43.82%) - Deep Breath
   
2. 7.286m = 3.762m + 3.523m (48.35%) - Into the Dalek
   
3. 7.277m = 3.645m + 3.632m (49.91%) - Robot of Sherwood
   
4. 7.011m = 3.669m + 3.342m (47.67%) - Listen
   
5. 6.993m = 3.583m + 3.409m (48.75%) - Time Heist
   
6. 6.820m = 3.801m + 3.019m (44.27%) - The Caretaker
   
7. 6.914m = 3.689m + 3.225m (46.64%) - Kill the Moon
   
8. 7.111m = 3.986m + 3.125m (43.95%) - Mummy on the Orient Express
   
9. 6.712m = 3.650m + 3.062m (45.62%) - Flatline
   
10. 6.921m = 3.827m + 3.094m (44.70%) - In the Forest of the Night
    
11. 7.340m = 3.913m + 3.428m (46.70%) - Dark Water
    

 

Consolidated = Live + 28 Day Timeshift (% timeshifted)

 

1. 9.529m = 5.151m + 4.378m (45.94%) - Deep Breath
   
2. 7.672m = 3.762m + 3.910m (50.96%) - Into the Dalek
   
3. 7.707m = 3.645m + 4.062m (52.71%) - Robot of Sherwood
   
4. 7.426m = 3.669m + 3.757m (50.59%) - Listen
   
5. 7.378m = 3.583m + 3.795m (51.44%) - Time Heist
   
6. 7.175m = 3.801m + 3.374m (47.02%) - The Caretaker
   
7. 7.248m = 3.689m + 3.559m (49.10%) - Kill the Moon
   
8. 7.472m = 3.986m + 3.486m (46.65%) - Mummy on the Orient Express
   

 

Without knowing the breakdown for Death in Heaven, Robot of Sherwood comes closest to a 50/50 split, between live and timeshift, on 7 day figures. Though even Deep Breath acquired nearly 44% of its viewers from timeshift.

 

Over 28 days, however, 4 of the first 8 episodes had less than half their viewership live.

 

This is all without taking into account, of course, second screen iPlayer viewers and those viewing repeats.

 

Also:

 

Day 8 to 28 Increase in Consolidated Ratings (+percentage increase/percentage of total ratings)

 

1. 9.169m + 0.360m = 9.529m (+3.93%/3.78%) - Deep Breath
   
2. 7.286m + 0.386m = 7.672m (+5.29%/5.03%) - Into the Dalek
   
3. 7.277m + 0.430m = 7.707m (+5.91%/5.58%) - Robot of Sherwood
   
4. 7.011m + 0.415m = 7.426m (+5.92%/5.59%) - Listen
   
5. 6.993m + 0.385m = 7.378m (+5.51%/5.22%) - Time Heist
   
6. 6.820m + 0.355m = 7.175m (+5.21%/4.95%) - The Caretaker
   
7. 6.914m + 0.334m = 7.248m (+4.83%/4.61%) - Kill the Moon
   
8. 7.111m + 0.361m = 7.472m (+5.08%/4.83%) - Mummy on the Orient Express
   

 

But anyway, I have my issues with Moffat's writing, and some of the direction of the show in general. There are things I really want to see change. But IMO this season was a step in the right direction in many ways.

[Arkerus]

Yeah, different. I'd give it an 8/10. Whereas I'd give season 2 a 5/10 in comparison. Yes, the Robin Hood episode was kind of lame, though fun (typical Gatiss episode) and the science aspect of Kill the Moon was goofy, and I could easily forget about "In The Forest of the Night", but then, remember, as I listed before, Love and Monsters? The Idiot's Lantern? Fear Her? They're all worse than ANY of the episodes in season 8. Also, Curse of the Black Spot, Silver Nemesis, half of season 1 and 3, The Sontaran Strategy/Poison Sky, Planet of the Dead, The Beast Below, etc.. all poop....Doctor Who always has poop! At least for someone. Maybe you thought those were all great. Then I divert back to people just have different opinions. I know people that think this is their favorite season ever, and some that think it's absolutely the worst.

 

 

 

Some articles out there really did a poor job in quoting Moffat, with click bait titles. He actually said that ratings haven't dropped, just that *overnights* are down slightly, while the overall reach including timeshifts are much higher, and iplayer downloads don't even factor in that, which are increasing each season as well (compare a few hundred thousand in 2005 to nearly 2 million now). Another complicated statistic to add in is that they currently don't track computer/mobile/tablet devices, which are actually the majority of devices used for iplayer.

 

TL;DL, the ratings have remained remarkably consistent for a 10 year old show, and we're seeing a shift in the way people watch TV in general. Less people watch live, more people DVR and download. Ratings in worldwide markets such a the US and AUS are also increasing.

 

Here is a breakdown of the ratings for the season, if you're curious.

 

 

 

But anyway, I have my issues with Moffat's writing, and some of the direction of the show in general. There are things I really want to see change. But IMO this season was a step in the right direction in many ways.

 

Honestly, I think you and I like different things about Doctor Who, which is great. Its a lot of things to a lot of different people. I like when the narrative is consistent and the overall themes are strong (for example: Matt Smith's second season (6 I believe)). Notice how I don't say that the doctor himself was any better but the overall cast and characters were handled all more consistently. As an audience member, I knew what to expect out of the doctor, Amy, Rory, River, etc. Their attitudes and character traits didn't vary wildly from episode to episode.

 

This season had an arguably weak overall theme with characters who seemed to magically change attitudes and emotions from episode to episode. IMO! Shoot, I can look back at classic who and pretty much tell you how Tom Baker's doctor and his companions were going to act in each episode. Maybe that left some people wanting more but I like writing when its consistent.

 

And yes, I know the actual ratings themselves were great. It was the exact show time viewing itself that was down. Thanks for the chart.