Atramar Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 there is no other way to fix this. pvp should be for merc/commando only. one tree only (the middle one). even there, we all should be limited just to 2 buttons, default attack and TCM/Grav. starfe disabled. keybinds disabled. and it will all be perfectly equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szczypaczek Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 What we have now is a freak class within an otherwise balanced system. You don't fix this by producing another freak class, cause if you do, you'll end up with two freak classes in an otherwise balanced system. You fix it by adapting the freak class to the balanced system. how about 3 smashers vaporizing everyting on sight in your perfectly balanced system? xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 As a Scoundrel healer since launch, I'll admit I'm probably very annoying to kill sometimes. But so are the other healers when they play in premade/good groups. With the taunts(even from the dps specs), other heals/offheals, communication, guards(!), and smart play it can feel like you'd never get me down. You make some valid points in your post, which is more than I can say for most. That said... It's still a matter of balance. DPS vs DPS is just that...a damage race. Even though this game is intended to be balanced in a group setting, MOST players want 1v1 viability in PvP. For the most part, balance is achieved in this game, with 2 exceptions: Op/Scoundrel healing and Smash/Sweep. The problem with those isn't necessarily based on 1v1 either. It's that the problem significantly magnifies when there are more than one type of that AC present. For example, one smasher on a team isn't so much of a problem. Two or three on the other hand, are a serious problem. The same can be said for healing. One healer can generally be dealt with and often is. Two or three, and it becomes a ridiculous exercise in futility. People PvP to KILL OTHER PLAYERS and win. That's really at the root of it. No one queues up hoping to face off against 8 healers. No one. Healing certainly has its place in PvP, but when winning matches is highly dependent on how many healers you have, players get tired of it. They want to fight. We've dealt with this debacle before when healing was overtuned, and it pissed everyone off then too. We love and appreciate our healers. We need our healers. We recognize the skill it takes to heal under pressure. But right now, it's over the top. Drawn out matches are boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanchito Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 I think that both sage and scoundrel heals could be toned down a bit, emphasis on a bit though. I just hope they don't take out the drastic nerf bat again. it would just take a little bit, like 5 more resources for the scoundrel hot, a longer cooldown on the sage self heal, and balance would be pretty good imo. Keep in mind that a lesser output leads to less uptime, which again reduces output, so a 5% nerf to tooltip numbers will end up being a lot bigger than that in actual end of warzone numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajPl Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 how about 3 smashers vaporizing everyting on sight in your perfectly balanced system? Xd this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcgregorya Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 It's funny because no buffs were ever given to the <30% heal ever since launch... You do understand that the actual output of a heal is based on factors like your level, bonus healing, PVP trauma, expertise of your target, etc? There have been a number of buffs to scoundrel heals. They got a direct permanent regen boost for 2.0 so that they wouldn't have to keep popping pugnacity. The ratio of bonus healing to HP has also changed drastically, plus cost reductions on SRMP, plus improvements to alacrity, plus reduction of crit across the board, etc. Claiming none of these things could possibly impact the balance of the game just shows you don't understand how those numbers that roll across the screen when you heal people come about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToMyMa Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 'You know a class is OP when people make threads saying it's not' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 BS The age-old argument from the healer's perspective has always been that 1v1 healer vs DPS should be a wash. All other things being equal, no single DPS should be able to solo a healer. Okay, fine. Anyone with half a sense of game balance can agree with that. So 2 DPS vs a healer, the healer should lose...50% of the time? 75%? No, not against an Operative/Scoundrel. It's more like 25%, unless the healer is bad. Very bad. 3 DPS vs a healer should be a no-brainer then. A healer should practically melt under that much pressure. Yeah, not so much. The healing bonus from Expertise needs about a 10% nerf. About 25% for Operative/Scoundrel. 1v1 dps v heals the dps should always win just as tanks should always win against dps (which never happens in this game) 3v1 the healer should die unless they are guarded by a tank, if healers can't live under pressure with a guard there isn't a point to having them or a tank. And if heal output is balanced around guard then a healer without a guard (ie a pug) would be about as useful as a 1.7 gunnery mando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityMan Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 1v1 dps v heals the dps should always win just as tanks should always win against dps (which never happens in this game) 1v1 heals vs dps the heals should always win. 1v1 heals vs tank heals should win; 1v1 tank vs dps they should both call for a healer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 1v1 heals vs dps the heals should always win. 1v1 heals vs tank heals should win; 1v1 tank vs dps they should both call for a healer I really hope that isn't serious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretinus Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) how about 3 smashers vaporizing everyting on sight in your perfectly balanced system? xD Three smashers will kill loads of people and will have completely stupid DPS figures. But they won't bring the WZ to a halt. Op/sc healers on both sides on the other hand will make game play superfluous and futile. They won't let anybody do anything. They have the power to do this. They're a freak accident that cannot possibly be BW's intention and they will get nerfed. Edited June 27, 2013 by Cretinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimsPicken Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) It does not take 3 players to kill an Operative healer... it takes 1 good dps player to completely neutralize them from healing others effectively, and it takes 2 dps to lock and kill them easily. bads need not apply. the real issue people have is when you have tnak guarding/taunting/peeling for them and another healer cross healing. in that case, yes it takes 3 dps to focus fire, which is fair, since its 3 players on the other side to stack all the guard/taunt/peel/heals. Edited June 27, 2013 by SlimsPicken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityMan Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 It does not take 3 players to kill an Operative healer... it takes 1 good dps player to completely neutralize them from healing others effectively, and it takes 2 dps to lock and kill them easily. bads need not apply. the real issue people have is when you have tnak guarding/taunting/peeling for them and another healer cross healing. in that case, yes it takes 3 dps to focus fire, which is fair, since its 3 players on the other side to stack all the guard/taunt/peel/heals. This^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 I find that three people can, in fact, burn down an op healer, provided he has nobody else healing him. The issue is not killing them, it their HPS output while kiting, and that is better by too large a margin compared to the other two healer ACs. Pretty much this. Their HPS far exceeds anything 2 or 3 DPS can do to them. Throw on a HOT, run around and heal. Its absurd. There is a nerf coming. If they don't pull back the healing then PvP turns into two invincible teams banging against each other. The worst is a healer holding a node down alone. Two DPS can't kill an operative as it is now. Interrupts only go so far. When HPS far outpaces DPS you don't have PvP worth playing because healers dictate the battle instead of the team dictating the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) It does not take 3 players to kill an Operative healer... it takes 1 good dps player to completely neutralize them from healing others effectively, and it takes 2 dps to lock and kill them easily. bads need not apply. the real issue people have is when you have tnak guarding/taunting/peeling for them and another healer cross healing. in that case, yes it takes 3 dps to focus fire, which is fair, since its 3 players on the other side to stack all the guard/taunt/peel/heals. I'm not that good at math but thats 3 people trying to kill one operative. Edited June 28, 2013 by Arkerus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnElias Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 People like to ***** about Operative heals and exfiltrate Bring a Merc to a regular/ranked warzone. Electronet will completely dominate an Op healer allowing the team to focus fire the Operative healer, negating his cloaking abilities which is one of his greatest defensive CDs as a healer. Oh, and root before exfiltrate. Pretty simple. An Op healer's numbers are so high for the same reason a good Lethality Op/Sniper/Madness Sorc/Pyro can top dps charts. Their DoTs are fluff, and the same goes for the healing, it's all fluff healing with a single dominating cast that can easily be interrupted. The Operative really shines once the target gets below 30% and you NEED a TA to active the "spammable" heal. No, it's not on demand, you need a proper rotation to pull it off. Ffs stop b***hing and making up excuses for your poor performance people. However, Merc heals could use a buff /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakhaar Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I agree that the skillcap for Operatives is considerably higher than some force-user advanced classes. But let's be honest, healing as an Operative is not that challenging. Sure, it might be more challenging than other healing specs, but that still doesn't make it hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Bring a Merc to a regular/ranked warzone. Electronet will completely dominate an Op healer allowing the team to focus fire the Operative healer, negating his cloaking abilities which is one of his greatest defensive CDs as a healer. Electronet with 90sec cd? Really? Edited June 28, 2013 by Glower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyMcNeely Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) You're not supposed to kill them 1v1. That is the single most stupid premise I've ever listened to in my entire life. You're telling me that the trauma nurse should be able to kick the *** of the Jedi Master, Sith Lord, or Bounty Hunter, or Republic Soldier every time, without fail? /smdh Edited June 28, 2013 by RodneyMcNeely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanchito Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I'm not that good at math but thats 3 people trying to kill one operative. well no. That is 3 people trying to kill an operative that is guarded and cross healed, so 3 vs 3. nothing wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 People like to ***** about Operative heals and exfiltrate Bring a Merc to a regular/ranked warzone. Electronet will completely dominate an Op healer allowing the team to focus fire the Operative healer, negating his cloaking abilities which is one of his greatest defensive CDs as a healer. Electronet doesn't exist in u50, no ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princz Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 @ op So you are saying that operatives are not OP ..... ok But then you say you cant kill em ... and then you say that is better not to focus em @ all .... do you want us also to /clap while you are capping the ojective? er ... right you are not OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretinus Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) well no. That is 3 people trying to kill an operative that is guarded and cross healed, so 3 vs 3. nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that indeed. But 1 single scophealer surviving 2-3 DPS while still being able to heal his team mates in a zerg, that's another story. Of course, you will tell us that DPS are all bads and if they were good then the scophealer would fall. And you will present us a manual with solutions as how to fight a scophealer. But I'm tired of people trying to counter incoming nerfs by fooling themselves that their class is played by the high skilled, while all other classes are played by the bads. The bads then would need to study a manual and play synchronized like premades on TS to stop one single scophealer and this is supposed to be balanced. The most straightforward answer to the game's current situation in PvP is that scophealers are way too strong as a specc and not that they're played by super skillors, while everybody else is a tard who needs to l2p. Edited June 28, 2013 by Cretinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atramar Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Nothing wrong with that indeed. But 1 single scophealer surviving 2-3 DPS while still being able to heal his team mates in a zerg, that's another story. Of course, you will tell us that DPS are all bads and if they were good then the scophealer would fall. And you will present us a manual with solutions as how to fight a scophealer. But I'm tired of people trying to counter incoming nerfs by fooling themselves that their class is played by the high skilled, while all other classes are played by the bads. The bads then would need to study a manual and play synchronized like premades on TS to stop one single scophealer and this is supposed to be balanced. The most straightforward answer to the game's current situation in PvP is that scophealers are way too strong as a specc and not that they're played by super skillors, while everybody else is a tard who needs to l2p. if 3 dps are hitting operative healer and he can heal him self, and is team mates, then the problem is 3 dps being stupid. learn to play issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szczypaczek Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) if 3 dps are hitting operative healer and he can heal him self, and is team mates, then the problem is 3 dps being stupid. learn to play issue. If 3 dps cant kill one operative, who isnt cross heald and guarded, then srsly l2p bro xD Stop spamming your basic attack and use other skills xD Edited June 28, 2013 by szczypaczek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts