ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Savej]

D

The difference between respeccing and changing your advanced class is HUGE.

 

Sorc: heals or ranged DPS

Assassin: tank or melee DPS.

Sorcs and Assassins (off the top of my head) don't share any abilities in an optimized rotation except in the SHARED tree and the play styles are wildly different.

 

Changing an Assassin to a Sorcerer would be like changing (from other games) a Druid to a Mage, a Marine to a Siege Tank or .

 

i wrote a long answer to that swap yesterday but let me sum up here: sorc ->sin requires fewer playstyle and gear changes than swapping between druid specs in wow (druids can be healers or stealth dps or melee tanks or ranged dps - most of those roles require more gear and stat chyanges, different energy mechanics, completely different abilities/rotations/etc.). Druids have been able to change specs for a loong time but maybe not when the game first came out - i don't remember.

 

My smash guardian and sentinels were sharing the same gear and most of the same rotations/keybinds for around a year. Switching from dps sent to guardian tank or dps guardian to guardian tank are almost identically radical changes. Any argument that sentinels shouldn't be able to flip to guardian tanks is almost the same as arguing that dps guardians should have to reroll if they want to be tanks. There are more differences between arms and fury warriors in Wow than there are between dps guardians and sentinels here, btw.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Savej

[branmakmuffin]

The difference between respeccing and changing your advanced class is HUGE.

 

Sorc: heals or ranged DPS

Assassin: tank or melee DPS.

[/snip]

And going from tank to heal (or vice versa) is just too much! It's ... rocket surgery!

 

Aaaaaaaaaaaagh!

 

why allow -any- respecs at all?

What's the difference between swapping acs in this game and swapping specs in several others (including wow)? What are you afraid would happen if players could swap acs(not bcs)? Why not give players a little more flexibilty and room for experimentation with their main character? The answers to all of those questions have been extremely dodgy (calling the asker names like "lazy" is 8-year-old dodge tactic #1).

The real reason: control freakery.

Edited September 12, 2014 by branmakmuffin

[dbears]

And going from tank to heal (or vice versa) is just too much! It's ... rocket surgery!

 

Aaaaaaaaaaaagh!

 

 

The real reason: control freakery.

 

My point wasn't about people having troubles with taking on a new role.. My point was about how different the 2 Advanced Classes of each are. They are so different that the only thing they really have in common are their base classes and their stories.

 

It's not about "control freakery".. It's about viewing the Advanced Classes as their own class (which they are because you can't change it) and realizing that if you made an Assassin but want a Sorcerer now, you have to make a new toon. That's the way it is, and the way it should stay. Play the game. Enjoy the game. If you want something, work for it. That's a hard concept for the newer generations to understand though.

[Deewe]

The difference between respeccing and changing your advanced class is HUGE.

Not really.

 

I get your point still the impact isn't that great and I'd agree with others here. If some are so against AC swap then why not ditch respeccing altogether and well see how it goes?

 

Would be quite interesting for sure.

 

This topic reminds me how some people where totally against appearance tabs as it would ruin not only the iconic look but also make it so players can't recognize other's class in PvP.

 

Now look where we are with adaptive gear. In fact I see way more players wanting more of it than less and not even one wanting to get rid of it.

 

Anyway when I don't want to wait for dailies or FP I just pull my Tank and get instant pop up, versus Healer got a wait time and well DPS... Fact is people against AC swap and multi-specs are just lengthening their wait queues.

 

No wonder the fleet chat is hammered with LFM tank & healers.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Deewe

[Savej]

My point wasn't about people having troubles with taking on a new role.. My point was about how different the 2 Advanced Classes of each are. They are so different that the only thing they really have in common are their base classes and their stories.

 

It's not about "control freakery".. It's about viewing the Advanced Classes as their own class (which they are because you can't change it) and realizing that if you made an Assassin but want a Sorcerer now, you have to make a new toon. That's the way it is, and the way it should stay. Play the game. Enjoy the game. If you want something, work for it. That's a hard concept for the newer generations to understand though.

 

I gave you a precedent of almost exactly the same spec swap as sorc=>sin available in one other (bigger/smarter/more-successful/popular/challenging) game and there are others. The main differences in the example I gave is that the druid flipping specs actually has to change more things (rotations, keybinds, abilities used, gear, macros, energy bars/mechanics, etc - all needs changing radically) than a sage going to shadow would even tho I agree it's a significant change (just like going from jugg dps to jugg tank is a significant change). Respecs have never been a big deal in any game that I know of - why exactly is it such a big deal here and now?

[Deewe]

Respecs have never been a big deal in any game that I know of - why exactly is it such a big deal here and now?

Most people don't like changes.

[LordArtemis]

If this were to be a thing, some folks have suggested that you have to have leveled a class and AC to the top to have that AC unlocked to the ability to swap.

 

So, you would be able to swap on your alts if you find you like that AC. Considering you have to level to the top anyway to unlock it, one learns how to play the class.

 

I think if there was ever an AC swap allowed I would probably dislike this method the least.

[Heat-Wave]

The single argument that has ANY sense at all that I see over and over is "if you let people switch, they won't know how to play their class".

 

Let me help you out... TONS of people already don't know how to play. You can thank KDY for that, I see way too many people leveling up with that, which teaches you nothing about your class.

 

Either people want to learn, or they don't. Artificial limits don't change that.

[branmakmuffin]

My point wasn't about people having troubles with taking on a new role.. My point was about how different the 2 Advanced Classes of each are. They are so different that the only thing they really have in common are their base classes and their stories.

Plus all base class skills and 1 spec tree. Thus your claim has the distinct ring of disingenuousness to it.

 

It's not about "control freakery".. It's about viewing the Advanced Classes as their own class (which they are because you can't change it)

I will say this again: it is only unchangeable because it is currently not changeable. "We can't change this because it has always been this way" is not a reason to not do something.

 

and realizing that if you made an Assassin but want a Sorcerer now, you have to make a new toon. That's the way it is, and the way it should stay.

In your opinion. The only rational reason you can offer is "I just don't like it." Fair enough, as far as it goes.

 

If someone wanted to pay CC to change from Assassin to Sorcerer, that has no effect on you and is none of your business any more than someone wanting to respec their Assassin from tank to one of the DPS trees. So yes, it really is about being a control freak.

Edited September 13, 2014 by branmakmuffin

[Foambreaker]

So, the Species Change and Barber Shop mentioned in the Dulfy interview from months ago are finally realities. That's a good sign! It means the devs are actually serious about their "Yeah, we'd like to do that" statements.

 

In that same interview, it was mentioned that Advanced Class changes were also on the table and likely to happen. I'm curious if the community team can update us on whether there's any time-table for when this will be implemented.

 

Ideally, I'd love it to be a switch you can unlock, then flip any time — finally allowing me to Tank & Heal with one character.

 

But in reality I'm sure it will cost like 6000 Cartel Coins to unlock it, then another 2000 Cartel Coins every time you switch (discounted 3.2% for subscribers, of course) with a 2 month cooldown. Oh well, what can you do? As a start, I'd be happy just to have the option in-game, in any form.

 

So! Does BioWare have any upcoming plans for this that can be shared with us?

 

~~~

 

Edit: While I am proud of how much you are feeding the Dark Side with your blind anger and hate, and vehement vows of impossibility, let me remind you of (source):

 

 

We got the Species part. That makes the AC part also have a lot of credibility.

 

So anyway, any ETA or news, community team?

 

Switch back and forth, not just no, FK NO!

[Jaxtes]

Switch back and forth, not just no, FK NO!

 

Care to elaborate why you are opposed to the idea or Did you just bump the thread for fun.

[dbears]

Plus all base class skills and 1 spec tree. Thus your claim has the distinct ring of disingenuousness to it.

 

All the base skills? Tell me. What base skills does an Assassin use, in ANY tree, that a Sorcerer uses? What base skills does a Powertech use that a Mercenary uses? Same question for the others..

 

The answer is ZERO. Possibly 1 (free shot/rage builder). Even in the shared trees, the Advanced Classes don't share abilities other than what they pick up in the skill tree itself.

 

Going from one talent tree to another, you at least still share similar abilities. All Assassins use Discharge. 2 trees use Thrash. 2 trees use Shock. 2 trees use Maul. All Assassins use Assassinate. Tell me, what Sorcerer uses Discharge, Thrash, Shock, Maul or Assassinate? None. That's how many. Same goes for the other Advanced Classes.

 

I will say this again: it is only unchangeable because it is currently not changeable. "We can't change this because it has always been this way" is not a reason to not do something.

 

They're not changeable because the Advanced Classes are considered their own class. As I pointed out above, Advanced Classes don't even share the same abilities. They're two very different, very distinct, SEPARATE CLASSES. If you want to change from Assassin to Sorcerer, you may as well ask for them to make it possible to change to a Mercenary, Operative, etc. as well. Again, they're considered their own Class and should not be allowed to be changed.

 

In your opinion. The only rational reason you can offer is "I just don't like it." Fair enough, as far as it goes.

 

If someone wanted to pay CC to change from Assassin to Sorcerer, that has no effect on you and is none of your business any more than someone wanting to respec their Assassin from tank to one of the DPS trees. So yes, it really is about being a control freak.

 

You're right. I don't like the idea. That's why I'm on here commenting. I'd much rather have Bioware working on new playable content than waste time programming an Advanced Class change because you lazy clowns would rather pay CCs to change your Advanced Class than level up a new toon.

 

So actually, yes, it DOES have an effect on me.

 

And again.. respeccing talent trees is way different than an Advanced Class change. So stop trying to compare it to that lol.

[Jaxtes]

dbears just drop it none of us agree with your reasoning of each advanced class being a class and all the other points seem forced.

 

If you cannot explain away the points made about WoW Druids then the AC are not distinct, sorry.

[Jaxtes]

You're right. I don't like the idea. That's why I'm on here commenting. I'd much rather have Bioware working on new playable content than waste time programming an Advanced Class change because you lazy clowns would rather pay CCs to change your Advanced Class than level up a new toon.

 

As someone else said on this forum

 

Why should your wants be more important than my wants?

 

We are willing to pay to bring it in are you willing to pay to keep it out.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Jaxtes

[Ratajack]

dbears just drop it none of us agree with your reasoning of each advanced class being a class and all the other points seem forced.

 

If you cannot explain away the points made about WoW Druids then the AC are not distinct, sorry.

 

Actually. many people feel that AC's are separate classes. Of course, this does not include those who are too averse to the minimal effort required to level that new class they wish to play. IMO, those players want to claim they are not separate classes due to the fact that class changing in MMO's is one of those "unwriten" no-no's.

 

In fact, the stance of ANY devs regarding AC's being different classes are that they are "fundamentally DIFFERENT class designs" and that they were "treated as full classes". They even changed the holonet "classes" page to show the two AC's for each story line as well as a glimpse at some of the skills each tree provides.

 

Unlike WOW, this game was set up so that no single character could fill all three roles. The devs have stated that they do not want a single character to be able to fill all three roles AT ANY TIME, not just at the same time. Allowing class (AC) changes would negate that design intent.

 

One particular poster in here wants to dismiss those quotes, IMO, for the aforementioned reason. He will claim that it is due to dev who made that statement and the age of the quotes, yet he holds up a quote from almost two years ago as the holy grail. He also will stick his fingers in his ears and go "NAH NAH NAH NAH" any time anyone brings up the fact that there has been NOTHING further from the devs regarding class (AC) changing in almost two years, despite numerous threads, including this one of well over 500 pages.

 

The original intent was that AC's NOT be able to be changed. The devs talked about allowing AC changing during the beta testing, but decided against it due to the overwhelming feedback from players. When they made that decision to NOT allow class (AC) changing, they went to great lengths to ensure that players knew and UNDERSTOOD that the choice of AC was PERMANENT. Every player is advised at least four times by two separate NPC's that their choice of class (AC) is PERMANENT. Every player has to acknowledge that they KNOW and UNDERSTAND that their choice is PERMANENT by clicking the confirmation box. BW gives you the option to look at all the skill trees before you make your choice. BW separated the two class (AC) boxes farther apart to eliminate the "misclicks".

 

Almost two years ago, a dev made a statement that AC's would "likely happen eventually",. There was no time frame given as to when eventually would be. At the same time, the same dev also said that species changes would likely happen. We have seen the species changes (a purely COSMETIC change) implemented, but we still have not heard another word, peep or even a hint of a whisper about class (AC) changes (which would be a fundamental game play change) being implemented.

 

As for your point about WoW druids, he can change his SPEC, but not his CLASS. Can a druid change to a rogue? No. He can go cat form which is similar to a rogue, but is NOT a rogue. Can a druid change to be a paladin? No. He can go bear form, which is a tanking form, but is NOT a paladin.

 

How many other WoW classes have access to four specs? Zero. How many classes can actually fill all three roles? Three, druid, paladin and with MoP, monks. Some classes can fill two roles, but only three classes can fill all three roles.

 

Regarding to all the claims that it is impossible to know at level 10 if you will like a class (AC) or how a class (AC) will play at end game, how is it possible for that player to know AT CHARACTER CREATION if he will like a paladin, or how a paladin will play at end game? How can that player know if he will like any of the other classes AT CHARACTER CREATION? This game gives you 10 levels to become acquainted with some of the basic skills, most of which will not be used at end game, before you actually choose your class (AC). Even the "shared" trees are not identical between the two classes (AC's). The two trees share some skills, but they are not identical.

 

As I said in previous posts, I think we may very well see class (AC) changes implemented at some point in the distant future, but not in the foreseeable future.

 

One point that has been raised many times in this thread is the fact that in the three years this game has existed and the time that this thread has existed, the vast majority of those players who wish to play a different class could be doing so if they had put forth the modicum of effort needed to level that new class. Instead, they choose to come to the forums and ask BW to give them a new class. It would seem that many find it easier to ask others (beg) for what they want than to actually put forth any effort to obtain it for themselves.

[Heat-Wave]

As someone else said on this forum

 

Why should your wants be more important than my wants?

 

We are willing to pay to bring it in are you willing to pay to keep it out.

 

Well said...

[Ratajack]

As someone else said on this forum

 

Why should your wants be more important than my wants?

 

We are willing to pay to bring it in are you willing to pay to keep it out.

 

The bigger question is how much does BW stand to make from the one time quick hit of lazy players wanting to change their class (AC) when compared with the loss of RECURRING revenue from lost subs and there WILL be subs lost if BW allows class (AC) changes. How many subs would be lost is something that only BW can know.

 

I'm guessing that they either suspect that it will be a loss in the long run, or that they don't want to risk alienating either faction. They probably know that if they came out and said "No" to class (AC) changes, that they risk losing those players who are too averse to the modicum of effort needed to actually level that that new class they want to play. They also likely know that if they implemented class changes, they risk losing those players against allowing class (AC) changes.

 

They can probably make more money by keeping you playing and paying based on the almost two year old quote and the hope that they will let you change your class (AC) while also keeping those against class (AC) changes keep playing and paying as long as class (AC) changes are not implemented, as well.

[Jaxtes]

They can probably make more money by keeping you playing and paying based on the almost two year old quote and the hope that they will let you change your class (AC) while also keeping those against class (AC) changes keep playing and paying as long as class (AC) changes are not implemented, as well.

 

True, though i think most of the people who oppose to the idea will get over it after sometime. Still we have to keep slogging to get the feature *sigh*.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Jaxtes

[Ratajack]

True, though i think most of the people who oppose to the idea will get over it after sometime. Still we have to keep slogging to get the feature *sigh*.

 

Or you could actually have that new class without waiting for the feature. You could probably have that new class leveled and fully geared long before the feature is implemented, if ever it is even implemented.

 

 

Of course, that would require a modicum of effort.

[Jaxtes]

Or you could actually have that new class without waiting for the feature. You could probably have that new class leveled and fully geared long before the feature is implemented, if ever it is even implemented.

 

 

Of course, that would require a modicum of effort.

 

Oh i have all the AC they are just stuck on the wrong side is all 3 tanks on pub side 3 healers on imp side. Wanted to roleplay so chose the AC i thought would fit the story. Turns out having a mix on both sides would have been better for the guilds i am in. Kind of a mental block having done all the class stories and each AC to 55 am not going to do that again.

[LordArtemis]

All the base skills? Tell me. What base skills does an Assassin use, in ANY tree, that a Sorcerer uses? What base skills does a Powertech use that a Mercenary uses? Same question for the others.

 

If I am not mistaken, the Inquisitor abilities. Base skills. Inquisitor is the base class of both ACs. That also goes for the Bounty Hunter abilities, used by both a Powertech and a Mercenary.

 

That might be what he was alluding to.

 

The bigger question is how much does BW stand to make from the one time quick hit of lazy players wanting to change their class (AC) when compared with the loss of RECURRING revenue from lost subs and there WILL be subs lost if BW allows class (AC) changes. How many subs would be lost is something that only BW can know.

 

It does not automatically make someone lazy if they wish to change their AC. For some folks, some ACs are just terrible, but they do not want to lose those unique items they have acquired. There are many other valid reasons to want AC change, and valid reasons to be against it....I posted a long list long ago in this thread.

 

IMO there is no need to insult those that desire AC change. To resort to insults gives credence to the idea that an argument is weak to begin with.

 

And it isnt....you don't like AC change....I don't like AC change. But note that I do not insult those that do. Instead I give my personal reasons why I am against it.

Edited September 14, 2014 by LordArtemis

[AshlaBoga]

Prior to the end of Ranked Season 2 I didn't really care that much about this as an option (most bad players will be bad regardless of whether they can change AC, most good players will be good regardless of whether they just swapped AC).

 

But, the issue is now "All-Galaxy [Advanced Class]"

 

This has changed my opinion from not caring whether they add this option, to hoping they never do.

 

I've played with at least 2 players who put in quite a few hours to get their All-Galaxy title (and who could solo me in their sleep), and I know they'd be mad as a Sith being sat on by a Jedi Hutt who'd had too much Corellian fried ice cream and needed to enough wind to move all 26 of Yavin's moons.

 

This would actually make it possible for the same player to get multiple unique PvP titles.

 

Example: Player gets an incredibly high rating early in Season, changes AC, gets very high rating. Gets "All-Galaxy Assassin" and "All-Galaxy Sorcerer."

 

That seem fair?

 

Edit: fixed error with my example.

Edited September 14, 2014 by AshlaBoga

[Jaxtes]

Gets "All-Galaxy Assassin" and "All-Galaxy Marauder."

 

That seem fair?

 

I have no idea about so PvP cant comment but you cannot do a marauder<>assassin swap with AC switch.

Will people use a 1 time consumable worth alteast 1000-2000 cc with 1 month cooldown for those titles?

The amount and cooldown are what people generally agree to.

 

Besides cant they just reset your PvP score if you use the item as a backup against this?

Edited September 14, 2014 by Jaxtes

[NyxNoxNothing]

Prior to the end of Ranked Season 2 I didn't really care that much about this as an option (most bad players will be bad regardless of whether they can change AC, most good players will be good regardless of whether they just swapped AC).

 

But, the issue is now "All-Galaxy [Advanced Class]"

 

This has changed my opinion from not caring whether they add this option, to hoping they never do.

 

I've played with at least 2 players who put in quite a few hours to get their All-Galaxy title (and who could solo me in their sleep), and I know they'd be mad as a Sith being sat on by a Jedi Hutt who'd had too much Corellian fried ice cream and needed to enough wind to move all 26 of Yavin's moons.

 

This would actually make it possible for the same player to get multiple unique PvP titles.

 

Example: Player gets an incredibly high rating early in Season, changes AC, gets very high rating. Gets "All-Galaxy Assassin" and "All-Galaxy Marauder."

 

That seem fair?

If they earned both titles then yes, yes it does. To me it seems perfectly fair to receive all rewards you've earned.

Let's say an Olympic athlete competes and wins gold medals in two different Olympic events; should they not be eligible for the second medal because they won a medal in another event first? Is that your idea of "fairness"?

[AshlaBoga]

1. Will people use a 1 time consumable worth alteast 1000-2000 cc with 1 month cooldown for those titles?

 

The amount and cooldown are what people generally agree to.

2. Besides cant they just reset your PvP score if you use the item as a backup against this?

 

I've labeled your points 1 and 2 respectively.

 

1. Yes, hardcore PvP players would not only do that, they would be willing to do that several dozen times over. You'd be amazed at some of the dedication/insanity I've seen (one player I know has 22 Elite Warlords:eek:).

 

2. I actually made my example assuming that your ELO would be reset , if nothing else it would allow them to have all the datacron bonuses, BiS relics, implants and earpiece on a single toon (you normally have to grind out another set of non-mod items since you can't send them to an alt).

Edited September 14, 2014 by AshlaBoga