Really now a days why can't soloers get end game comms from ...

[LordArtemis]

That would be something at least.

 

Yes, the idea is to provide casual players with a small progression ladder that reaches beyond top level. Your chosen type of gameplay is boosted by in game activity, and failure in that activity causes a loss of that boost, all or in part.

 

When you reach certain legacy levels you get a base boost that becomes permanent.

 

In other words you would like alternate forms of progression to improve your toon, right now the only way to progress and improve is gear if you have already hit caps and ran through all the achievements.

[SithKoriandr]

It's not about making my guy more powerful to complete quests (although that is always fun) its about the fact that new gear is the only form of character progression this game has and people shouldnt be Forced to raid to get it. Everyone wants to progress not just the small percent of people that are hardcore raiders.

 

And every game gets to a point where you reach the cap. You've obviously reached the cap for what you're willing to do. Want to hit a higher cap, experience the multiplayer aspect of the mmo.

[LordArtemis]

You wish to play this expansion to the fullest, yet you want to ignore one of the major parts of the expansion? This part I am talking about of course is the Operation Scum and Villainy. Perfect sense and great logic you got there

 

Come come now, not everyone enjoys raiding. You know as well as I do the enjoyment factor can plummet when you get players involved that treat a game more like it's a job.

 

As a casual player myself I despise making runs with BIS obsessed players. Gear addiction is a disease that is eating away at the very soul of MMOs IMO.

[Fantazm]

I'm with the OP.

 

"you don't need it" isn't a valid reason for not being able to get it.

[Silko]

In a giant online role playing game I should only have One thing to do at endgame to progress my toon?

 

No you can do several things to progress you toon but some things like raids and HM FPs will progress your toon father then other methods. Doing all the solo able content in this game can get you full lvl 66 gear. Lvl 66 gear is more then enough to solo any content that was made to be done without a group. Hell with that gear you can even solo some Heroic 4s based off your class. But if you wish to progress to the very top of the top gear you have to raid because the only content in this game that requires that level of gear is what? Raiding. No solo content in this game right now will require you to have lvl 69/72 lvl gear to complete it. Solo content in modern MMOs are focused on getting people geared enough to dip their toe in the water so they can start raiding without dieing quickly or hampering a groups chances of success.

 

I understand you don't want to be forced to do anything but your not being forced to do any thing at all. It is a reward system you are choosing not to take part of. For example, most people want a good job that they enjoy and pays well. In order to do that you often need a degree of some type. to get that degree you need to bust your *** and once you got that degree you can now harvest the fruits of your labor in the form in personal and financial success. Same concept here, you want something? Have to earn it.

[OddballEasyEight]

Lame excuse. Gear is the only way to progress your toon at endgame. Soloers don't want to just stop and wait for an expansion. God forbid people had a choice between how they wanted to advance. Raiders are so insecure about their gear they think that if people arent FORCED to raid no one will.

 

Umm... im a Solo'er and i have no problem with the way it works now. I dont NEED that gear.. and should i WANT it i would group up for a couple of Ops so i could get them.

But as a Solo'er i dont really need them. At all.

 

Sure, you could call soloing endgame stuff "advancing" too, but really, its just grinding the same stuff over and over, just like raiding, so why not do it in a group every now and then.

 

Soloing is only really valid for the duration of the story. After that you really need to get into the MMO part of things or start over.

 

Otherwise it will be like playing a singleplayer game and once you finish it you just keep playing that final boss battle over and over again...

Edited May 18, 2013 by OddballEasyEight

[SentinelDranoel]

I love star wars but im getting ready to unsub (again) cause I have Nothing worthwhile to do at endgame. I want to keep being able to upgrade and progress my toon until the next expansion comes out but I don't want to be Forced to raid. Im a husband and a father I can't stand having my game time and experience be dependent on other players and I don't want to be glued to the computer chair for hours on end.

 

I know im not alone on this but unfortunatly most forum responders are raiders.

 

Pretty much. ^

Personally I do a operations rarely. HM OPS less than that. I am not against alternatives for getting really good gear. Always loved their black hole system. I have not fully tested the comms system since 2.0.

[Silko]

Pretty much. ^

Personally I do a operations rarely. HM OPS less than that. I am not against alternatives for getting really good gear. Always loved their black hole system. I have not fully tested the comms system since 2.0.

 

The comm system basicly works like this for lvl 55s

 

Basic Comms: tier 66 Gear. Can be earned from just about anything but lvl 55 HM FPs and lvl 55 SM Ops

 

Elite Comms: Tier 69 Gear. Earned via lvl 55 HM FPS and lvl 55 SM OPs

 

Ultimate Comms: Earned from most lvl 55 weeklies and lvl 55 HM Ops

[LordArtemis]

Umm... im a Solo'er and i have no problem with the way it works now. I dont NEED that gear.. and should i WANT it i would group up for a couple of Ops so i could get them.

But as a Solo'er i dont really need them. At all.

 

 

This is the way I think most casual and/or solo players feel. Gear is not the driving force for playing the game.

[Murasakikitsune]

The comm system basicly works like this for lvl 55s

 

Basic Comms: tier 66 Gear. Can be earned from just about anything but lvl 55 HM FPs and lvl 55 SM Ops

 

Elite Comms: Tier 69 Gear. Earned via lvl 55 HM FPS and lvl 55 SM OPs

 

Ultimate Comms: Earned from most lvl 55 weeklies and lvl 55 HM Ops

 

This. I've almost got enough Ultimate comms to buy something, and I didn't even realize it at first. It -is- possible for a soloer to get end-game gear.

 

Without a goal for Ops though, there's much less of a compelling feeling to even do them. If people could gear up on their own time, they'd spend less time on the content, and then complain that there's no end-game.

 

 

Addendum @ Hardcore/Casual point: I am by all peoples' accounts a hardcore player. I spend a great deal of my time playing the game, and work hard in progression. But I consider myself casual because I don't feel the need to be better than anyone.

Edited May 18, 2013 by ZoeTuah

[Silko]

Another thing that most people don't know is back in closed Beta this game was so anti group it got to the point of why even bother grouping? MMOs in the past have encouraged grouping by providing XP boost or things of that nature. This game had nothing so I'm glad to see anything to makes people want to group together. Games that support guilds and groups live for a long time. Just look at EQ, that game has been around an extremely long time for a video game. They support grouping and guilds very heavily and we can see the results from it.

[jasonthelamb]

same reason Solo PvPers will take about 4 years to get a full end-game PvP set

[Master-Nala]

Top-tier raid gear is there to help the top-tier raiders do top-tier raids.

 

That's not true. If it were there would be a "raid stat" like PvP has Expertise. Raid gear specifically rewards people for raiding with superior gear for ALL content (except hopefully PvP). It doesn't reward them for doing harder content, because raiding isn't hard. It rewards raiders for the social bonds that raiding creates.

 

And that's not a bad reason. But it is the real reason. Soloing is disfavored because it doesn't create the kinds of bonds that keep people playing these types of games. Developers never, ever state things exactly this way because it ticks people off. It sounds more fair to say that raiding is harder, but really it's more about keeping people playing and paying.

 

EDIT: Thought experiment. Let's say there was a stat called "Mastery" that did exactly what Expertise did but in Operations. I.e. it improved damage versus raid opponents, reduced damage versus raid opponents and increased healing while in operations. If raid gear had no more main stat/endurance/crit/power, etc. than Flashpoint gear but had this new stat instead, would that not eliminate the "Raiders need gear to raid argument?"

 

At that point raiding would have to stand on its own as content. PvP does that interestingly enough. People still PvP even though the gear you get is subpar for high end PvE (and it's only slightly better for PvP).

Edited May 18, 2013 by Master-Nala

[DarthTHC]

It's not about making my guy more powerful to complete quests (although that is always fun) its about the fact that new gear is the only form of character progression this game has and people shouldnt be Forced to raid to get it. Everyone wants to progress not just the small percent of people that are hardcore raiders.

 

It's not about making my guy more powerful to complete quests (although that is always fun) its about the fact that new gear is the only form of character progression this game has and people shouldnt be Forced to PvP to get it. Everyone wants to progress not just the small percent of people that are hardcore raiders.

 

See how silly that sounds?

 

IT'S THE SAME THING!

[DarthTHC]

I'm with the OP.

 

"you don't need it" isn't a valid reason for not being able to get it.

 

How about "you didn't EARN it"?

 

If you want the raid gear, it's there. Go get it.

 

Raiders get it because they make the commitment. They put in the effort. They overcome the challenges. And then they get gear that helps them do all that better, After they've committed, worked, and won.

 

If you want that gear, you only need to do the same thing. And then that gear will help you be better at doing it.

 

There is nothing in the solo or 4-man content of this game that is remotely like top tier raiding. Not even close.

 

If you don't want to earn it, don't complain about not having it.

Edited May 18, 2013 by DarthTHC

[Master-Nala]

It's not about making my guy more powerful to complete quests (although that is always fun) its about the fact that new gear is the only form of character progression this game has and people shouldnt be Forced to PvP to get it. Everyone wants to progress not just the small percent of people that are hardcore raiders.

 

See how silly that sounds?

 

IT'S THE SAME THING!

 

Why does that sound silly? People are not forced to PvP for better gear. Hell, raiders would and did pitch a fit when they needed to PvP for one day to get relics.

[DarthTHC]

Why does that sound silly? People are not forced to PvP for better gear. Hell, raiders would and did pitch a fit when they needed to PvP for one day to get relics.

 

People are forced tp PvP to get gear that helps them PvP.

 

People are forced to Raid to get gear that helps them Raid.

 

See the parallel?

[Idunhavaname]

Lame excuse. Gear is the only way to progress your toon at endgame. Soloers don't want to just stop and wait for an expansion. God forbid people had a choice between how they wanted to advance. Raiders are so insecure about their gear they think that if people arent FORCED to raid no one will.

 

No its not. If thats how you perceive endgame then it is. Im a casual gamer since college (hardcore prior) and I have no issues with not being able to acquire best gear out there. Why do you even need them anyway? In fact, SWTOR is actually laughably friendly when it comes to obtaining ultimate gear compared to main competitor WoW (heroic tier). Notice how you can acquire Elite and Ultimate via Heroics and Weekly Makeb.

 

Also there are other methods of acquiring "ultimate gear" such as PvP.

[Qeff]

If you want the raid gear, then raid. If you want the PvP gear, then PvP. If you don't want the content, you don't need the gear. It really is that simple.

 

This whole " I deserve to get it because I play too" attitude is elitist in itself, you deserve only what you put the time and effort into.

[asbalana]

Heroic daily/weekly solo quests? Everyone wants to upgrade their toon at end game not just Raiders and if anything it would allow more people to do Raids if they wanted too.

 

This is a very old and much discussed topic.

 

Although there may be exceptions of which I am not aware, it seems that MMOs have the vast majority of their content directed to the leveling experience. That play is usually solo or small group. Once you reach cap there are a few dungeons and raids that can be run and some daily content. With the exception of the dailies, solo play then goes out the window and everything switches to group content. Dalies only get you so far and end up being such a repetative long grind that they can turn your brain to mush. Players are then faced with four options; replay the game (reroll), raid, hang around with little or nothing to do, or quit. Some players do like crafting and playing the economy, but to keep them a game needs a rich crafting experience which provides for progression of skill or character and a vibrant economy.

 

In the end, the majority of players are like you and depending on their play style come to the point, sooner or later, that they must leave the game. The current opinion of flavor is that MMO players have no loyality and hop from game to game always looking for the next thing to come down the road. I believe that is a misconception and that most players reach the point where if they do not raid, they are brought to the option of leaving.

 

It has always been a mystery to me why games are designed with a raid or die end game concept, but there you have it. Look at the next swtor patch / super content update that is coming. Is there anything for solo players? To them the patch is worthless and provides no incentive to continue their sub.

 

All I can say, without regard to what you may see on the forum, is that you are like most players and raiders / hard core are a small minority.

 

Two final thoughts. Raids take better gear because they are designed to take better gear. There is no reason why any raid cannot be tuned to specific gear levels and not require gear progression. It would seem that if raids were fun and enjoyable to most players, they would not need a gear tread mill to keep them coming back. One wonders how many raiders would repeat raids (replay value) if not for the gear carrot and stick.

 

Second, the you don't need the gear if you do not raid is true and bogus at the same time. It is true that you do not need the gear, non raid gear is sufficent for non raid content. It is bogus because after basic needs are met, what drives people is what they want. LOL, swtor is being kept afloat by the CM market which sells not one item that players need.

 

PS - I can't spell worth a rat's tail either.

Edited May 18, 2013 by asbalana

[Dropadeuce]

I love star wars but im getting ready to unsub (again) cause I have Nothing worthwhile to do at endgame. I want to keep being able to upgrade and progress my toon until the next expansion comes out but I don't want to be Forced to raid. Im a husband and a father I can't stand having my game time and experience be dependent on other players and I don't want to be glued to the computer chair for hours on end.

 

I know im not alone on this but unfortunatly most forum responders are raiders.

I hate to rain on your parade but it looks like MMO's aren't for you.

[Dropadeuce]

People are forced tp PvP to get gear that helps them PvP.

 

People are forced to Raid to get gear that helps them Raid.

 

See the parallel?

 

People are forced to quest to gain xp. Its garbage if you ask me.

[xandax]

Ahh the good old topic.

 

I'm a raider at heart and I'm all for other ways to gain equal level gear.

I've never been a fan of "you must do X to get the best gear". The best gear should be available from multiple sources, crafting, PvP, PvE and so on - with some what equal effort. That way choice is in the hand of the player what he wants to do at any given time without being left behind.

 

PvPers gain all PvP gear.

PvErs should gain all PvE gear - but for some reason it isn't so. And funnily - some people don't want others to gain that gear as if others getting gear devalue their own gear and experiences. But I guess that is where the underlying issue actually is. It's the "prestige" factor that make people fight this notion. It's the 'I'm better because I have gear X and you don't".

 

"You don't need it" - argument. Well neither did the raiders. The raiders got their gear when not having the gear.

So obviously - they didn't need it either

 

"I'm forced to do PvP" - argument. Well, PvP is PvP. But raiding is PvE, so by same line of argument - all types of PvE should actually provide access to the very same sort of reward scheme.

 

 

SWTOR has gone further than many other MMOs before it with allowing non raiders to get highish end gear. We can only hope the next MMO dares to go all the way.

 

People are forced to quest to gain xp. Its garbage if you ask me.

 

No they're not. Invalid argument.

Edited May 18, 2013 by xandax

[LordRahlik]

This is an MMO, not a solo game.

 

End game content belong in end game operations and instances and will require you to team up.

 

Why play MMO if you want to Solo? Go play a solo game and you'll be able to get everything you want.

[xandax]

This is an MMO, not a solo game.

 

End game content belong in end game operations and instances and will require you to team up.

 

Why play MMO if you want to Solo? Go play a solo game and you'll be able to get everything you want.

 

Yet more and more content in MMOs have become soloable already.

MMO does not mean 'grouping' or 'raiding'. Also in other MMOs crafters can make the best gear - those games are still MMOs.