Really now a days why can't soloers get end game comms from ...

[asbalana]

We can only hope the next MMO dares to go all the way.

 

There is a game that may come out at the end of the year or early next that is playing lip service to this. We all know to take pre launch statements with a very large gain of salt.

 

The game has my attention and I hope that it delivers a decent level of quality and keeps part of the end game promise. If it does it will be a winner and keep subs much longer. It will also draw a line in the sand for future games.

 

As is pointed out seven million times a day on this forum, the game is being offered by a business with the aim of makeing a profit. An end game approach that drives customers away does not make much sense.

[Jeweledleah]

but... you get Elite coms when you finish staged weekly on makeb. if I'm not mistaken, you also get a few when you finish blackhole weekly and section x weekly. you get basic coms from section x and from makeb/gsi dailies, and those buy you intro raid gear. (66 mods) so... there IS a solo way to progress, just like there was back before makeb? and unlike back in a day, staged weekly can be done completely solo (no, not elitist "I can solo that group quest" - you get options of which quests to complete and can chose to stick to all solo quests).

 

naturally, you won't be getting access to ultimate coms, but I'd say, its fair, since people who run normal oips - don't get those either, as far as i know.

[Arkerus]

Heroic daily/weekly solo quests? Everyone wants to upgrade their toon at end game not just Raiders and if anything it would allow more people to do Raids if they wanted too.

 

You can easily obtain elite comms from the makeb weekly and flashpoints. So you can definitely work on that.

 

Might I also suggest trying PvP?

 

I get where you are coming from but ultimate comms are the operation based reward. It's fraction better than elite gear so don't worry about it. It's just the icing on the cake.

[DarthTHC]

People are forced to quest to gain xp. Its garbage if you ask me.

 

Ask them to add a "+1 level" trinket to Cartel Market. See how well that goes over.

[Eudidimuss]

There are other ways to "earn" the raid gear you think you need. Just save a ton of credits and offer a ops group like a few million creds to get a peice of gear, while you lay dead on the floor. So you won't potentially wipe said raid your paying for gear. And bam! You "earned it!...

[SilentKitty]

Hmm... what else other than putting better gear on your character do you enjoy?

 

Have you seen the Seeker droid- and the Marcobinocular-quests? I found them to be really enjoyable. Do you have your crafting at 450? How about an alt.

 

For me the recipe for staying amused it varying my goals within the game. Since we got Makeb I have had a phase in which I focused on gearing my JK who I use for Ops. Then going after the Marcobinoculars and Seeker droid-quests. After that I switched over to the dark side to see the Makeb-story from that point of view. Working a little on the crafting, because I didn't really do anything of that prior to now, was having too much fun with the rest of the game. Next Tuesday the hunt is on to get a new pretty gree-weapon for a lucky alt.

 

Current goals are lvl:ing my new Cathar trooper, taking a look at PvP because I haven't done any PvP since we got Makeb. Also thinking about organizing a full datacron-hunt for the guild. Finishing the Makeb-story for my Sith Warrior. Perhaps also start a new Empire-alt. Find lvl:ing more fun if I wary it between rep- and imp-side a bit.

 

Instead of just focusing on how to get better armorings or mods for your character. Is there anything else in this game that you would find interesting to do? Hope you will find something and good luck

Edited May 18, 2013 by SilentKitty

[AsheraII]

This is a very old and much discussed topic.

 

Although there may be exceptions of which I am not aware, it seems that MMOs have the vast majority of their content directed to the leveling experience. That play is usually solo or small group. Once you reach cap there are a few dungeons and raids that can be run and some daily content. With the exception of the dailies, solo play then goes out the window and everything switches to group content. Dalies only get you so far and end up being such a repetative long grind that they can turn your brain to mush. Players are then faced with four options; replay the game (reroll), raid, hang around with little or nothing to do, or quit. Some players do like crafting and playing the economy, but to keep them a game needs a rich crafting experience which provides for progression of skill or character and a vibrant economy.

 

In the end, the majority of players are like you and depending on their play style come to the point, sooner or later, that they must leave the game. The current opinion of flavor is that MMO players have no loyality and hop from game to game always looking for the next thing to come down the road. I believe that is a misconception and that most players reach the point where if they do not raid, they are brought to the option of leaving.

 

It has always been a mystery to me why games are designed with a raid or die end game concept, but there you have it. Look at the next swtor patch / super content update that is coming. Is there anything for solo players? To them the patch is worthless and provides no incentive to continue their sub.

 

All I can say, without regard to what you may see on the forum, is that you are like most players and raiders / hard core are a small minority.

 

Two final thoughts. Raids take better gear because they are designed to take better gear. There is no reason why any raid cannot be tuned to specific gear levels and not require gear progression. It would seem that if raids were fun and enjoyable to most players, they would not need a gear tread mill to keep them coming back. One wonders how many raiders would repeat raids (replay value) if not for the gear carrot and stick.

 

Second, the you don't need the gear if you do not raid is true and bogus at the same time. It is true that you do not need the gear, non raid gear is sufficent for non raid content. It is bogus because after basic needs are met, what drives people is what they want. LOL, swtor is being kept afloat by the CM market which sells not one item that players need.

 

PS - I can't spell worth a rat's tail either.

I have to agree with you, but I see it as a big DESIGN FLAW if there is no progressive solo-content at level cap.

And no, I'm not talking about those dailies. I mean progressive in both rewards AND difficulty. I even dare to say that such content should be solo-EXCLUSIVE, meaning a player should not be able to bring another player to tackle it, but must deal with it on his/her own. Put it in an instance, add a 1-player limit on the instance, and it's solo exclusive.

 

Next would be the content itself. Sure, it's nearly impossible to ballance one instance perfectly for sages and guardians, snipers and assassins. So make them class-specific. Maybe even advanced-class specific. It might not be a planet-spanning class-specific story arc, but if implemented well, it could still be a very welcomed extension to our class stories. There are plenty characters in our storylines who just go out of sight at some point. This could add some meaning to all those interresting people we met in our pasts. Maybe even let us see or experience the repercussions of choices we made in the past.

 

That's two birds with one stone: people want to see their class-stories continue (and by all means, they are far from finished! All are open ended..) and it gives level capped players something more to do.

Sure make them repeatable. But DON'T make them easymode and mindnumbing like the dailies. I'd even suggest including a line of equipment ON PAR with operations gear, but with a noticable part of the stat-allocation assigned to the underused presence. That makes sense, since it's solo content, so the player has to rely more on his or her companions.

 

So, let's say, some operation gloves give 621 armor (rating 162), 124 aim and 216 endurance, then the solo equivalent would give 621 armor (rating 162), 95 aim, 200 endurance and 50 presence. Or something like that.

[SilentKitty]

I have to agree with you, but I see it as a big DESIGN FLAW if there is no progressive solo-content at level cap.

And no, I'm not talking about those dailies. I mean progressive in both rewards AND difficulty. I even dare to say that such content should be solo-EXCLUSIVE, meaning a player should not be able to bring another player to tackle it, but must deal with it on his/her own. Put it in an instance, add a 1-player limit on the instance, and it's solo exclusive.

 

Next would be the content itself. Sure, it's nearly impossible to ballance one instance perfectly for sages and guardians, snipers and assassins. So make them class-specific. Maybe even advanced-class specific. It might not be a planet-spanning class-specific story arc, but if implemented well, it could still be a very welcomed extension to our class stories. There are plenty characters in our storylines who just go out of sight at some point. This could add some meaning to all those interresting people we met in our pasts. Maybe even let us see or experience the repercussions of choices we made in the past.

 

That's two birds with one stone: people want to see their class-stories continue (and by all means, they are far from finished! All are open ended..) and it gives level capped players something more to do.

Sure make them repeatable. But DON'T make them easymode and mindnumbing like the dailies. I'd even suggest including a line of equipment ON PAR with operations gear, but with a noticable part of the stat-allocation assigned to the underused presence. That makes sense, since it's solo content, so the player has to rely more on his or her companions.

 

So, let's say, some operation gloves give 621 armor (rating 162), 124 aim and 216 endurance, then the solo equivalent would give 621 armor (rating 162), 95 aim, 200 endurance and 50 presence. Or something like that.

 

I would love to see something like that. Throw in a convo with your companions when you finished the goal of that heroic, instance or what you would call it and I would be dancing with joy! I miss my companions and would like to see something difficult for solo-players even if I do a lot of things with my guild.

[NemoAZ]

I agree with OP in 100%. People who don't have the possibility to spend numerous hours (or rather consecutive

hours) playing game, after completing Makeb have no posssibility to advance their character. Running SM Ops or H4 content solo wouldn't break this game. In the contrary many players would stay subbed and/or buy more CC because they could do something more interesting than dailies at endgame. Community already gave numerous ideas for endgame modification like: multiple companions, alts in operations, mercenaries for flashpoints. Bioware just have to use some of this ideas. This way everyone would be happy. Solo players would have interesting endgame content, Group players more experienced people in GF, Bioware more money.

[Izorii]

I think solo players should be able to get the good gear. It should be much slower and be limited by dailys/weeklys. However they should be able to get it, I play occasionaly I like solo play and some group play so I do want to eun lv 55 HM and opps but I also like solo play. Probablem is solo play is worthless for gear progression.

[asbalana]

I have to agree with you, but I see it as a big DESIGN FLAW if there is no progressive solo-content at level cap.

And no, I'm not talking about those dailies. I mean progressive in both rewards AND difficulty. I even dare to say that such content should be solo-EXCLUSIVE, meaning a player should not be able to bring another player to tackle it, but must deal with it on his/her own. Put it in an instance, add a 1-player limit on the instance, and it's solo exclusive.

 

Next would be the content itself. Sure, it's nearly impossible to ballance one instance perfectly for sages and guardians, snipers and assassins. So make them class-specific. Maybe even advanced-class specific. It might not be a planet-spanning class-specific story arc, but if implemented well, it could still be a very welcomed extension to our class stories. There are plenty characters in our storylines who just go out of sight at some point. This could add some meaning to all those interresting people we met in our pasts. Maybe even let us see or experience the repercussions of choices we made in the past.

 

That's two birds with one stone: people want to see their class-stories continue (and by all means, they are far from finished! All are open ended..) and it gives level capped players something more to do.

Sure make them repeatable. But DON'T make them easymode and mindnumbing like the dailies. I'd even suggest including a line of equipment ON PAR with operations gear, but with a noticable part of the stat-allocation assigned to the underused presence. That makes sense, since it's solo content, so the player has to rely more on his or her companions.

 

So, let's say, some operation gloves give 621 armor (rating 162), 124 aim and 216 endurance, then the solo equivalent would give 621 armor (rating 162), 95 aim, 200 endurance and 50 presence. Or something like that.

 

There are a few things that are outstanding in this game. In my humble opinion, one of them is the companion system. In SWTOR, you have companions with personality, story, galaxy view and who after a short period of time take on a life of their own. They are your buddies who follow you in your adventures and support you with their very lives. You dress them, armor them, and care for and feed them (affection points). The only thing more loyal is a dog.

 

Yet in cap level content they are gone in group play.

 

I agree that challenging cap level solo (with companion) content would make a lot of players stick around for a longer time. Solo can be changed to small group (like the heroics) that scale based on the number of players. I and my wife are basically soloists, but we love playing together and while leveling, the heroics are much enjoyed. We have become a well oiled team. My wife is a devout smash monkey and I much enjoy rolling different characters and playing as a duo to see how the different combintions work together.

 

As far as balancing content between classes, I am not sure how difficult that would be. The balance need not be perfect, but can be close enough when you factor in companions or scale to small groups. Each of my characters has a healing, tanking, and dps companion and so can pick two roles from the trinity. Other games in some quests actually assign an npc to accompany you. Using something like that you can balance all three roles. It is clear that one or two players cannot handle the range of mechanics in a raid. But in a raid, each player does not handle all of the mechanics, but rather is assigned a role or function within the team so that may be a push.

 

The OP wanted the ability to progress at cap that is not raid centric. Taking your idea and building on it, may be one way to address his/her desires. I know that it would make a difference to me and wifey. Post cap adventure zones, the way that is being hyped in an upcoming game is another possibility. It is hard for me to believe that an mmo cannot offer anything beyond raid or die or mind numbing dailies at cap.

[Caelrie]

PvP is diffrent cause it's pvp. Endgame gear is classified as PvE gear which is more then just raiding. And I know im biased but I don't give a hell what pvpers get lol this is an RPG not a FPS.

 

So what you're saying is that YOU should have a choice, but not other people.

[Merwanor]

I don't care about stats or stuff like that, but I do care about good looking armors, so I would suggest adding something like a hard mode quest chains or something like that, where you can unlock custom armor that has the same look as raid gear.

 

I think lots of MMO games suffer drops in Subs because after a while there is nothing to do for solo players, there is no hard content that gives great rewards that are only for solo players. Some of us, like me have no interest in raiding or HC heroics. And I think many people who play mostly solo are just fans of singleplayer RPGs, and SWTOR is the closest MMO game that is similar to a SP RPG.

 

Solo instances or something like that is something I have wanted for a long time, and not only for SWTOR. But in SWTOR, I think it would truly improve the game, because at end game, our companions are useless.

[Nagadeath]

now where have i seen this before...... oh yeah the 3 year long war that raged on the pre-launch forums.

 

the raiders saying "you don't need it" and " but it's a MMO" over and over and over again. while the soloers wrote out complex scenarios that could be used for solo endgame.

 

the soloers even agreed that the solo path should take longer and give gear 1 step behind raid tier but still the "you don't need it" and "but its a MMO" crowd would have none of it.

[BrianDavion]

soloers can progress up into black market 100% solo. that's pretty good when you stop and think about it. that's like being able to earn a set of columni completely solo. 2.x is FAR more solo friendly then 1.x

[Idunhavaname]

I think solo players should be able to get the good gear. It should be much slower and be limited by dailys/weeklys. However they should be able to get it, I play occasionaly I like solo play and some group play so I do want to eun lv 55 HM and opps but I also like solo play. Probablem is solo play is worthless for gear progression.

 

They CAN get good gear from just solo play now though. Remember the thing called WEEKLY: Makeb Stage missions that rewards 12 Elite Comms?

[Caelrie]

now where have i seen this before...... oh yeah the 3 year long war that raged on the pre-launch forums.

 

the raiders saying "you don't need it" and " but it's a MMO" over and over and over again. while the soloers wrote out complex scenarios that could be used for solo endgame.

 

the soloers even agreed that the solo path should take longer and give gear 1 step behind raid tier but still the "you don't need it" and "but its a MMO" crowd would have none of it.

 

Soloers can get elite comms, which is what you say you want. What's the problem?

[SilentKitty]

Hmm...

 

How about solo-heroics that rewarded players with really good gear with presence. This way you could still fight your way to better gear with something that was challenging but it would not give you any bonus in Operations since you cannot bring your companions in there.

 

Those who do Operations get their gear. Solo-ers get good gear stacked with extra presence. Just like PvP-people have got expertise. Worth a thought perhaps. This should not be irritating for any one doing Operations right, since it isn't gear that can be used in an Operation. Just bouncing ideas...

Edited May 18, 2013 by SilentKitty

[Master-Nala]

try to figure out why do u need those gear.

if u dont go to ops, u dont need it at all

 

By definition you don't need operations rewards to do operations content. Otherwise you would have to have the gear before you do the content.

 

Let's be clear. There is no such thing as "raid gear". Gear that drops from raids is the strongest PvE gear. That's all it is. It is not needed to start raiding as I stated above. Harder raids only need raid gear because they are designed with gear checks to ensure that someone has the gear.

 

DarthTHC makes a point about PvP gear. THERE IS PVP GEAR! It's gear that has Expertise. So let me ask those who believe raiders deserve better gear because they "need" it the following hypothetical.

 

Let's say that all raid gear's stats were lowered to equal the top gear from Flashpoints. The lost stat budget was given to a new stat called "Mastery" which increased your damage, healing and damage reduction in operations. Mastery would do nothing outside of operations. Would that not be fair? Wouldn't that fully satisfy the 'need' issue? If you still believe that raiding deserves better stats in a system like this, the question I have is why? Why do raiders need to be able to dominate Flashpoints, dailies and PvP? If you need gear for raiding, why can't we tailor raid gear for raiding?

[AlrikFassbauer]

I think end game comms belong in end game content.

 

And I believe that begin game comms belong in begin game content.

 

But no. The begin game content can be visited by anyone. It's NOT exclusive to the beginners.

End content, however, is exclusive to the end content players.

 

To me, this is like using 2 sets of scales, not 1.

[BadOrb]

I think doing the 3 weeklys and Makeb dailys makes quite a lot of basic comms. Personally I only like 5 of the pub dailys and 3 of the Imp dailys on Makeb though. That would still net you quite a lot of basic gear within about 4 weeks of play. I do believe , after playing the final microbioculars or seeker droid heroic 4 on ilum that they are trying to get us into grouping more and grouping is needed on that last mission , 2 of us even have more than basic gear and it was still tough.

 

O and don't forget to get some basic comms in the gree event next week.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

[Fantazm]

I don't care about stats or stuff like that, but I do care about good looking armors, so I would suggest adding something like a hard mode quest chains or something like that, where you can unlock custom armor that has the same look as raid gear.

 

 

This is a good point.

[DarkDisturbed]

The point is there is no reason to have gear as a solo player..I don't raid to get gear for the sake of new gear, I raid to get gear so I can do harder raids and have fun doing so...

[AsheraII]

The point is there is no reason to have gear as a solo player..I don't raid to get gear for the sake of new gear, I raid to get gear so I can do harder raids and have fun doing so...

So what's the point of doing the top HM operation then?

 

It's a threadmill, and that threadmill is badly missing from non-group content.

[Droidist]

I love star wars but im getting ready to unsub (again) cause I have Nothing worthwhile to do at endgame. I want to keep being able to upgrade and progress my toon until the next expansion comes out but I don't want to be Forced to raid. Im a husband and a father I can't stand having my game time and experience be dependent on other players and I don't want to be glued to the computer chair for hours on end.

 

I know im not alone on this but unfortunatly most forum responders are raiders.

 

I agree with you. I work in groups all day long every working day, and love to solo in the evening to relax, so does my wife. Being able to cruise along and be rewarded with better gear from doing some solo activities would be nice (for example - BC in WoW had awesome craft made gear that was raid level and it never broke their game, it increased subs) . Increasing the power of your character is what every MMO is all about really. I also realize that devs have to time gate content, but raiding shouldn't be the only way to get good gear for PVE. PVP is really in a world of it's own, since you only want it if you PVP.