Tennej Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Yeah not a war game, only centered around a war, during a time of war, where we all play people fighting in that war. Its not an RTS but war game it is. Yes... a cold war. now, maybe you youngin's are all a bit too young to remember the big one o' those, so it around and let ol' pappy Tennej tell you a story. Now once upon a time, dere be dees two big ol' countries, the United States o' America, and de Soviet Union. They were in one of these here cold wars. But pappy, you ask, how come I ain't never heard o' no battles from this war? Well chilluns, that be because there weren't no open fighting, 'cept in small pockets like Vietnam and Korea. You know, kinder like the PvP and Flashpoints! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThanosTitan Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 So why does everyone keep comparing it to it then? Cause its there. Anyone who has played a prot warrior longer than 20 minutes can pick up a Jedi guardian and immediately see WoW with lightsabers. They didn't even bother to rename most of the the skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurnea Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Yeah not a war game, only centered around a war, during a time of war, where we all play people fighting in that war. Its not an RTS but war game it is. Wargamming typically refers to military strategy games. An rpg with a central theme of war still doesn't make it a 'war game'. If I went to Gen Con and told people my favorite 'war game' was the Knights of the Old Republic rpg campaign, they'd look at me as if I was nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocturneus Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I had a guildy in EQ that would make animated powerpoints to show us how a boss fight would go. And I'd wager your guild was somewhat successful because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorbrand Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 It is already OP because there is yet to be a successful casual MMO to launch in history. This isn't it either! SWTOR is a fail as MMOs go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashaan Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 OP sounds like someone who never got past level 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordAposno Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I think it is. I've never seen a game, or community so hostile to 'hardcore' PvE/PvP players in my entire life. This may as well be the Bejeweled forums. Did Bioware design this game with the intention to keep serious players out? The game doesn't even have a combat log, it doesn't have addon support, it has released a few days from 2012 with no ranked PvP system. How is that acceptable? Do BW have any idea how big the 'e-sport' market is for MMO's? I could go on, and on, but it seems this game is very unfriendly towards players who want to play competitively/with skill. Why keep out such a large potential userbase? I suspect its because of the IP monster that is Star Wars. Such a huge brand is going to bring people to this game that have never even played MMO's before, whereas games like Rift, GW2, etc. know what type of gamer they are getting and cater to them. Adding some sort of challenge in the game would only be a blow to the many potential subs they could get, and keeping out the hardcore players and keeping the scrubs happy has probably been determined as the best way to make that dollar. You will not find EJ/AJ/WCM type communities for this game, there is no depth to this game. This game is far far better without you and your kind in it. The casuals are the ones that pay for the game over the long haul. That is where the studio will get their money and their loyal base. BW has indeed catered to large customer base. Griefing pvp'rs really have no purpose in a game like this. I would recommend EVE online for you, it would fit your personality. Let this game have the great in game community that it does. Most of the people I have met and grouped with are cheerful, helpful and fun. I would hope to keep it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediwran Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Reading some of the replies here, some people in fact do want WoW 2, and they will be disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Cause its there. Anyone who has played a prot warrior longer than 20 minutes can pick up a Jedi guardian and immediately see WoW with lightsabers. They didn't even bother to rename most of the the skills. The game moves and controls a bit more like WAR with lightsabers. Which is fantastic, because WAR is a great game with very crappy execution. SWTOR took all the good stuff from every MMO available and made it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediwran Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) It is already OP because there is yet to be a successful casual MMO to launch in history. This isn't it either! SWTOR is a fail as MMOs go! By what standards? Edited December 21, 2011 by Jediwran Added an eye-roll for emphasis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiUasp Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 OP: So you're insinuating that a casual friendly player is not a serious competitor? Does one preclude the other or are you just trolling us all! I consider myself both friendly and casual and I'd love to challenge you to a duel Hope you do alright without your meters there to guide you, friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhit Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Why do people still use the "WOW didn't have it at launch either" argument? Those folks do realize this isn't 2005, right? If you want to compare TOR to another game--use a game from 2011--i.e. WoW in its current state, or DCUO, or Rift. This game would have crushed WOW if it had been released in 2005. Unfortunately, now it is 2012 and many facets of the game feel extremely retro to many experienced MMO gamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocturneus Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I have to wonder, why do people say the game isn't hardcore enough and in the next breath insist addons are necessary? lol QFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krookid Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I'm going to enjoy the UI as it is (mod-free) while I can. Once mods enter the game and the macro-kings post the best rotations, specs, and macros for everyone to copy and paste, the game will turn into another "google-searched" FOTM-based mmo. B-O-R-I-N-G mods made WoW far too simple and boring years ago. Some people can figure out the combat and rotations all by themselves without needing to be spoon fed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThanosTitan Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Wargamming typically refers to military strategy games. An rpg with a central theme of war still doesn't make it a 'war game'. If I went to Gen Con and told people my favorite 'war game' was the Knights of the Old Republic rpg campaign, they'd look at me as if I was nuts. War gaming as a definition is a game about war, this is a game about war. Genre does not define content and this game is all sorts of filled with and about a war. That's your problem, substituting con definitions instead of you know, the actual definitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalenaria Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Re B: PvP was always better when it has no reason to happen other than the joy of killing your fellow player. Honor systems and BG type systems generally turn PvP from a joy into just another grind. Back in UO, sometimes people wouldn't even loot your stuff when they ganked you. They'd leave it there in your corpse to rot and they'd just go find someone else to kill. The kill is all that should matter. I like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurnea Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I'm going to enjoy the UI as it is (mod-free) while I can. Once mods enter the game and the macro-kings post the best rotations, specs, and macros for everyone to copy and paste, the game will turn into another "google-searched" FOTM-based mmo. B-O-R-I-N-G Uh, people are already posting and copying specs. There's a great read on imperial agents on the pros and cons of different specs for snipers, as well as tested builds to copy from. mods made WoW far too simple and boring years ago. The ones that made WoW easy were eventually broken. Others were made redundant when WoW saw they were good designs and copied them into the base u.i. . When I last raided in Firelands, I had all of two mods: Vudho, and DBM. DBM was all but useless on any heroic fight ("What's that dbm, I'm standing in a crystal trap? Doesn't really help to know that now." "What's that, dbm, Domo's about to pounce on me? By the time you told me that, I was already dead.") Vuhdo I used only for aesthetics, as I used custom mouseover macros keybound to my Naga to heal. Addons nowadays do very little to make WoW simpler than it would be without them. Some people can figure out the combat and rotations all by themselves without needing to be spoon fed. Without proper tools they're going about the process in a much more tedious and error-prone way. It's like driving a car without the dashboard: Sure, you could figure out your speed without using the mp/h meter on your dashboard, but what would be the point of doing so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawngnome Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 War gaming as a definition is a game about war, this is a game about war. Genre does not define content and this game is all sorts of filled with and about a war. That's your problem, substituting con definitions instead of you know, the actual definitions. "War" is a political definition. Being at war isn't all about fighting on the front lines, and a "game about war" could just as well focus entirely on political theaters or the infrastructure that, you know, actually makes the fighting on the front lines possible to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krookid Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Uh, people are already posting and copying specs. There's a great read on imperial agents on the pros and cons of different specs for snipers, as well as tested builds to copy from. The ones that made WoW easy were eventually broken. Others were made redundant when WoW saw they were good designs and copied them into the base u.i. . When I last raided in Firelands, I had all of two mods: Vudho, and DBM. DBM was all but useless on any heroic fight ("What's that dbm, I'm standing in a crystal trap? Doesn't really help to know that now." "What's that, dbm, Domo's about to pounce on me? By the time you told me that, I was already dead.") Vuhdo I used only for aesthetics, as I used custom mouseover macros keybound to my Naga to heal. Addons nowadays do very little to make WoW simpler than it would be without them. Without proper tools they're going about the process in a much more tedious and error-prone way. It's like driving a car without the dashboard: Sure, you could figure out your speed without using the mp/h meter on your dashboard, but what would be the point of doing so? I left WoW two years ago so I'm not familiar with their UI now. As far as damage meters go. My character surviving while others are dead is the only damage meter I need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roselle Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 *big sigh* this is exactly why mmo's have lost their magic for me in the last few years. This elitist attutude to online games, the obsession with pvp and 'being the best'.....since when did this become a competition?? Its a GAME, right? I play for fun, and fun only, at least I try to until these type of players come along and ruin it for others. I'm a 39 yr old female, I have played online games for nearly 13 years, until about 5 years ago there were a huge amount of FUN, I made many friends over the years. Back in the days before voice chat and parsers we would actually talk (or type) to each other in group chat instead of spamming macros, noone minded if you were crap, which I am and don't care about that I left EQ2 after 5 years there as the community had changed so much that nobody even bothered to talk to you unless you did over a certain amount of damage in your parse. I even stopped grouping there altogether because I got sick and tired of being told off by teenage boys because I wasn't doing enough damage with my wizzie. Now, I've been in star wars for 4 days and I LOVE it so far, I love it because it DOESN'T have all the features that cater for harccore players and finally there is a game that is more casual friendly, YIPPEE!!! Bring back the fun :):) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurnea Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 War gaming as a definition is a game about war, this is a game about war. Genre does not define content and this game is all sorts of filled with and about a war. That's your problem, substituting con definitions instead of you know, the actual definitions. I've played numerous games across a somewhat diverse range of games, I can assure you that most of the gaming community uses 'war gaming' to refer to games that emphasize stragical warfare. http://archive.gamespy.com/articles/february02/strategygames3/index2.shtm -"Wargames are games in which the art of war is abstracted and quantified in such a way that the main emphasis of the game is to out-think and out-play an opponent by employing military units in a reasonable approximation of sound real world war fighting tactics. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grammarye Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Congratulations on an offensive, narrow-minded post. I stopped reading. Have fun in your little elitist dreamworld with your virtual achievements. I speak as a long time player of 'hardcore' MUDs back when they were really tough, EVE, and a variety of other PvP parts of other games. You do nothing for this playstyle acting like some immature elitist. If you want respect, try doing something worthy of it. Hint: It's not to be found in virtual worlds. Edited December 21, 2011 by Grammarye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankub Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Why are people always polarized into one of two groups? You are either a casual gamer or a hard core gamer. It's the same with politics, religion, moral choices, etc. It's almost as if people can't comprehend numbers above two. I am hard core and casual gamers are beneath me, I tread on their faces and they are ruining all gaming for me because they have the money and dictate what developers do and it ruins my fun.. I am casual, all these hardcore players are a bunch of no life, basement dwelling, virgins that do nothing but play games and grief other players and complain about problems that aren't even there and ruin my fun. This duopoly mentality is a terrible way to look at gamers and games. I'm not calling for peace, features that people complain about, suggest, and argue over can lead to innovation but this casual vs hardcore garbage has got to go, it accomplishes nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zebukiel Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 It's almost as if people can't comprehend numbers above two. I for one, only handle 0 and 1's. Beyond that I am lost. =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grammarye Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 This duopoly mentality is a terrible way to look at gamers and games. I'm not calling for peace, features that people complain about, suggest, and argue over can lead to innovation but this casual vs hardcore garbage has got to go, it accomplishes nothing. Thank god somebody else gets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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