The weird people you meet in Group Finder.

[aerockyul]

Honestly, some mechanics on those double bosses are more obnoxious than the soft enrage. Rarrook's AoEs are a much bigger problem than Marko Ka's soft enrage, so I like to down him first. I'd rather deal with Master Obai's soft enrage than Lord Vodd's lightning balls. Darth Arkous's soft enrage is a minor annoyance compared to the trouble of Major Darok's blue circles.

And yes, I typically experience those fights as a healer, so I'm aware of what kind of damage I'm dealing with.

 

That's basically what I thought was supposed to happen based on feedback in this thread and other places. There was no way the group I was with was going to take both bosses out in a balanced way, so we tried to focus the most annoying one first. I can be aware of the mechanics all day, it doesn't help when the group members start doing weird things (like dps spamming off- and self-heals unnecessarily instead of, you know, dpsing) and no one in the group is overgeared to a point that we can carry that sort of thing.

 

Anyway, admitted I was undergeared at 178 as dps and it was my first time in HM Rishi. You can be assured I won't be in any more SoR HM's until I'm grossly overgeared for them as a dps or tank (healing is much easier for me, even in weird pugs)

[trashy_spartan]

Anyway, admitted I was undergeared at 178 as dps and it was my first time in HM Rishi. You can be assured I won't be in any more SoR HM's until I'm grossly overgeared for them as a dps or tank (healing is much easier for me, even in weird pugs)

 

You're not undergeared.

http://www.swtor.com/fr/community/showthread.php?t=817603

[BigBreakfast]

You're not undergeared.

http://www.swtor.com/fr/community/showthread.php?t=817603

 

Didn't watch it, just read some of the comments.

 

Remember, it's not just about the gear. People still wipe to SM 55 ops in 192+. With enough skill by everyone, you can skirt some gear requirements. Better players can do it with less, new/bad players need better gear to compensate.

Edited October 9, 2015 by BigBreakfast

[BobFredJohn]

Rapid Scan... Rapid Scan... ... .... .. .Rapid Scan... Rapid Scan.. Rapid Scan.... (didn't see any Kolto clouds). Wow, so after we rez I type out to use more aoe stuff like Kolto M and Prog Scan.

 

Depending on gear and the mission its possible to get away with that.

 

I cant remember which is which out of rapid/healing. But 1 of them gives a buff that reduces cost of other (3-stacking) and emergency scan gives it some other proc (instant cast I think). So if all goes well, rapid, rapid, rapid, emergency, healing, rapid, rapid, rapid, emergency, healing can get you through most stuff (the easier HM fp's like mannan, rakata, korriban). The kolto missile and channel thing are lovely with bunched up allies during aoe stuff (like Ortol lightning storm).

Edited October 9, 2015 by BobFredJohn

[BigBreakfast]

Depending on gear and the mission its possible to get away with that.

 

I cant remember which is which out of rapid/healing. But 1 of them gives a buff that reduces cost of other (3-stacking) and emergency scan gives it some other proc (instant cast I think). So if all goes well, rapid, rapid, rapid, emergency, healing, rapid, rapid, rapid, emergency, healing can get you through most stuff (the easier HM fp's like mannan, rakata, korriban). The kolto missile and channel thing are lovely with bunched up allies during aoe stuff (like Ortol lightning storm).

 

And say good bye to your heat. If everyone is damaged, doing 4 rapid scans instead of 1 progressive is just plain wrong. Most of the arenas in these fp are small, and Progressive Scan has a 20m range so there's no excuse. Not to mention that Progressive Scan gives out an armor buff as well. And all that aside, there's simply no reason to avoid aoe heals and single target everyone.

Edited October 9, 2015 by BigBreakfast

[BobFredJohn]

And say good bye to your heat. If everyone is damaged, doing 4 rapid scans instead of 1 progressive is just plain wrong. Most of the arenas in these fp are small, and Progressive Scan has a 20m range so there's no excuse. Not to mention that Progressive Scan gives out an armor buff as well. And all that aside, there's simply no reason to avoid aoe heals and single target everyone.

 

I assumed you didn't have damage to everyone as you said you were tanking properly. Other than dps standing in stupid theres no damage to dps in rishi except 18k every 30 seconds (is it 30, never timed it) in second boss. 2 progressives deal with that.

 

Note: I never said that mercs should never use aoes, infact I specifically pointed out they are perfect for aoe phases.

 

also resource isn't a problem with the rapid, rapid, rapid, emergency, healing rotation because it is quite powerful (the emergency and healing are both instant cast and no/next to no heat). Allowing med shot fillers (dissipates 1 heat on heal, 2 on crit), along with maintenance of kolto shell.

 

In fact I often find myself running out of things to do, popping in explosive darts and unloads because I start to get bored. Still without incurring heat problems.

Edited October 9, 2015 by BobFredJohn

[BigBreakfast]

I assumed you didn't have damage to everyone as you said you were tanking properly. Other than dps standing in stupid theres no damage to dps in rishi except 18k every 30 seconds (is it 30, never timed it) in second boss. 2 progressives deal with that.

 

Note: I never said that mercs should never use aoes, infact I specifically pointed out they are perfect for aoe phases.

 

also resource isn't a problem with the rapid, rapid, rapid, emergency, healing rotation because it is quite powerful (the emergency and healing are both instant cast and no/next to no heat). Allowing med shot fillers (dissipates 1 heat on heal, 2 on crit), along with maintenance of kolto shell.

 

-_- Discussing specifics about fp bosses isn't worth my time. And tanking that boss properly = 2 bosses on me, easy enough given the bad dps stories around here. Whatever damage anyone else takes after that is up to them, but it really doesn't matter in the slightest. Heal the same way in every encounter, fp or op. Not sure why you are looking for an argument when there isn't one.

Edited October 9, 2015 by BigBreakfast

[BobFredJohn]

-_- Discussing specifics about fp bosses isn't worth my time. And tanking that boss properly = 2 bosses on me, easy enough given the bad dps stories around here. Whatever damage anyone else takes after that is up to them, but it really doesn't matter in the slightest. Heal the same way in every encounter, fp or op. Not sure why you are looking for an argument when there isn't one.

 

sorry, stupidity annoys me, that's all. Reading a post that says "rapid, rapid, rapid, emergency, healing is a base rotation, with aoe's added as required" (I didn't mention kolto shell and med shot as those go without saying) as though it says "Never use any abilities except those 3 in that order" is rather stupid.

_____________________________________________________________

 

On fleet, waiting for gf to pop for my weekly tactical and HM fp pops. Someone calls for 2h 5dd for gf op (tfb). As gf is taking so long I agree to join, especially as this guy clearly intends to solo-tank it, and I have never seen that on the final boss before.

 

Get group quite soon and we enter. Faceroll through everything up to second boss. Its a shambles. Some dps are attacking kel'sara before the other 2 are dead. The tank is focusing the sorc boss, (the only one, I think, in the entire op, though may be wrong, that is untankable). Ciphas is attacking me (healer) and kel'sara is attacking the other healer, neither ever get peeled off either of us, that is up until the other healer rips Ciphas off me so both are now on him. We eventually wipe.

 

On speeder back the other healer asks if anybody knows the basic method for this boss. He gets no response so, once he gets to the boss he starts to write out a basic version:

"kill cipher, move to <sorc name> when connected with beam, move out of green clouds, use them when doomed"

 

Nobody responds to this, and the tank pulls again. Same shambles, I tab target a-bit to try figure out why the healing is harder than normal....all 3 bosses are being taken down at the same rate, with the tank still concentrating on the sorc boss, with cipher on a sniper and kel'sara on the other healer. **** hits the fan (seems the damage buff to ciphas from injured kel'sara is quite a big buff) and we wipe. Other healer quits. We run back, the tank requeues us, nobody is joining so he goes to fleet to recruit.

 

As he is going a dps quits. While waiting for him to recruit I notice the sniper has a nice looking gun, so I inspect their gear. Its a green one. I double check I am not looking at the wrong page, perhaps they are using the costume thing. I check, they aren't. I look through their gear. Its 12/14 augmented....oooh, overgeared for 55 SM. I check the augments, all are absorb. I look though to add up their accuracy because the stupid bar at the bottom says they have not acc rating, even when I mouse over it. Turns out the bar is not stupid, no accuracy rating.

 

By now we have our new healer and dps. The tank zones back in, both the 2 new people say they cant get in. A shambles ensues with the group offering advice on how these 2 get in, meanwhile I check our tank, out of interest. Lightning charge, mix of strength and willpower dps gear, and no TFB achievements (other than first boss we just killed).

 

Seems this is a 6 dps 2 healer run. The "tank" as op leader says "all leave so the other 2 can get in."

 

I'm more than happy to leave, tyvm.

Edited October 9, 2015 by BobFredJohn

[venomlash]

Re: healmando/healcenary and AoEs

I use Successive Treatment even when I'm just tank-healing. It can be cast on the move with Forced March, so I can use those 2.4 seconds to reposition if need be, and it does very nice healing on its primary target. Plus, there's often a good chance that one of the DPS will step on a rake while you're channeling, so it'll help keep them topped off without extra effort.

Only reasons for not using Successive Treatment on CD are if your energy is getting low (and Reserve Power Cell is on CD) or if the tank is at 100%. Heck, sometimes I like to use it 10 seconds before a nasty pull just to get the buff up on everyone.

 

I can be aware of the mechanics all day, it doesn't help when the group members start doing weird things (like dps spamming off- and self-heals unnecessarily instead of, you know, dpsing) and no one in the group is overgeared to a point that we can carry that sort of thing.

 

I've had more than one death occur with Master Obai and Lord Vodd because DPS tunnel the bosses instead of getting the lightning balls, and I have to get most of the balls myself, and then while I'm running around doing that one of the DPS stands in floorcandy and gets 2shotted before I can react. Happens frequently with bad DPS in the group.

Edited October 9, 2015 by venomlash

[FerkWork]

Joined a random DF run. It's SM and 55 why not so I go on my Marauder cause I want to test it out since it was gathering dust since 3.0.

Get in group, Group leader all right at first whatevs, spamming for a second tank while we wait. I suggest since it's not in GF and waiting and the nature of finding a tank atm Might be awhile so I suggest getting just another dps since you don't need one. Guy freaks out like we are trying to do NiM mode or something me and cool healer reassure Him (the tank whispers me not everyone is pro lol) it's not needed but he still not convinced. Finally convince him but with no DPS bites we just 7 man it. Port in and he gives this elaborate explanation of how we need to defeat the trash outside of Nefra (at this time I looked at his Cheivios hasn't done any ops besides KP and EV over leveled but whatevs, he's also the tank) so we wait and let him get set up keeps saying ready before he pulls each add wasting lots of time so everyone else just cleans up adds. Get to Nefra, and in the fight the guy keeps moving Nefra all across the map lol and losing aggro in the process.

 

Blah blah blah get to Draxus. Keeps telling the one of the healers to stay with him and that healers got to be on point (I whisper one of them like lol this is weird) cause there's only one tank. Boss is pulled and he doesn't tank Draxus the whole time so I end up doing it to point cleave away (Marauder tank ftw!). Guy ends up chasing a Despoiler around. Whatevs we kill it regardless. Get to exploding droids, no one troll pushes them but the tank guy keeps eating them all. Have to Rez him after each wave and demands healers to heal him through the zero damage attack and for class buffs (I'm laughing real hard right now). Get to to Grobbie. Decides to tank it center of room and get knocked across room dragging boss with him making it annoying to DPS. Kill it , he proceeds to die again after each robot before CZ (still blamin healers le). CZ is loose half the time lol but kill it cause it's SM.

 

Get to Brontes. When reaches come out he doesn't stand in the beam. He actually tries to DPS the reaches and dies by running into them. Rez him Blames healers asks for buffs etc... Healers are at breaking point atm lol. When Clock phase happens he stands in front of Brontes whole time trying to DPS her he dies so healers decide f it and do the rest of the fight without him. So no tanks on 6 pack phase or after but it's a breeze. After fight tank guy comments how healers need to play better and work as a team. One healer loses it and calls him out on all his crap. Gets all defensive and I point out what he did wrong and leave instance.

 

Get whispers afterwords from him telling me I'm a kid who doesn't know how to play as team (lol), link him my Chievios, gets mad saying I'm riding coat tails I lol at him, goes on this rant how he's the greatest tank ever tanking for 3 years. Respond with yeah no go back to Solo play before stop engaging with the dingus. And people wonder why I prefer guild runs or friends.... To many bads that think they are good and blame everyone else for their mistakes. Can't wait for 4.0 and all ops are raised up.

 

But shoutout to the healer the real Mvp who healed through all the bad tank's crap and verbal abuse and who I had good laughs with. I raise a glass to you and hope to have more adventures on the JC. XD

Edited October 9, 2015 by FerkWork

[BigBreakfast]

sorry, stupidity annoys me, that's all. Reading a post that says "rapid, rapid, rapid, emergency, healing is a base rotation, with aoe's added as required" (I didn't mention kolto shell and med shot as those go without saying) as though it says "Never use any abilities except those 3 in that order" is rather stupid.

Are you even real? Lol it's ok, I can fix this.. rewind! rwzwrzrwrzwrp.

Depending on gear and the mission its possible to get away with that..

W h o c a r e s ?!?! There's 0 use in discussing which heals could work in a hypothetical situation.

All that matters was: in THIS situation, the raid was slowly dying and the healer was stuck doing single target heals. So, he was not healing appropriately in the given situation. End of story.

 

In the land of "non-granny content", we like to adjust our heals based on the needs of the current situation, not pointlessly defend some raid wide single target rotation.

 

"aoes added as required" lol that made my day.

Edited October 9, 2015 by BigBreakfast

[aerockyul]

I've had more than one death occur with Master Obai and Lord Vodd because DPS tunnel the bosses instead of getting the lightning balls, and I have to get most of the balls myself, and then while I'm running around doing that one of the DPS stands in floorcandy and gets 2shotted before I can react. Happens frequently with bad DPS in the group.

 

Even though that run went south on the first boss, if we had gotten through somehow I was beginning to dread the prospect of the next one with Obai and Vodd. Granted, all my experience in Rishi has been in SM, but just about every time I've played it no one has gone after the lightning balls except me, no matter which role I'm playing. For the first couple runs I would see this and think "maybe we're supposed to ignore those?" But you're not supposed to ignore the flame balls in Athiss, or the flame-y things in Red Reaper...

I think the prevailing thinking by most is these mechanics can be ignored because you will out-dps them or the healer will easily out-heal them. This can definitely work in most SM, but it's obviously less-so in HM.

[LudhaninRolgge]

Well, a friend of a mine usually queue as a tank and I as a healer, even though he's a dps and I main tank and this for several reasons.

 

I know I can heal him through every FP boss fight with my sage, smuggler and mando.

 

Quite often, he outdps the two others dps combined. For example, he downs Arkous while the two others dps are focusing Darok or he can take an add before the others on the first boss of Manaan.

 

And I'm also fed up when I queue as a tank to have a healer that don't know healing. Yesterday, I queue as a tank and the healer is a lvl 60 sage. Well, he didn't know what vindicate was and what force management was .

 

Basically, we're two-manning the FP and the dps are getting carried and this happens quite often. So with this setup, we can run the FP and finish it without serious problem. If the two dps are good, the FP will be very quick to do.

 

I took aggro 3 times on the rancor mini-boss after the 1st boss. The fight lasted less than 1 minute and he regained aggro only because of taunts. Some people are bad enough to make those FP difficult, I'll easily admit that, but don't be a douche and play your role. Shorter queue times are not an excuse to queue as a tank or a healer if you're DPS.

[BobFredJohn]

Even though that run went south on the first boss, if we had gotten through somehow I was beginning to dread the prospect of the next one with Obai and Vodd. Granted, all my experience in Rishi has been in SM, but just about every time I've played it no one has gone after the lightning balls except me, no matter which role I'm playing. For the first couple runs I would see this and think "maybe we're supposed to ignore those?" But you're not supposed to ignore the flame balls in Athiss, or the flame-y things in Red Reaper...

I think the prevailing thinking by most is these mechanics can be ignored because you will out-dps them or the healer will easily out-heal them. This can definitely work in most SM, but it's obviously less-so in HM.

 

Tbh most people ignore the balls in SM because, if I remember correctly, there are only 2. And by the time they appear the bosses are down around 30%. I usually end up soloing them too.

 

Yet even so, when I HM it theres usually only 1 person who doesn't bother (granted, its necessary for all 4 to get them to prevent some unlucky sod getting 6, 12 and 24k hits. You would be surprised how difficult it is to get (usually a mdps) to pick them up:

"but my rotation needs me to stay close, and I don't want to stop because my dps will go down, Numbers is more important than not dieing."

[venomlash]

I just had the most LOLWUT groupfinder teammate. I queued up on my Commando, got slotted as healer for HM Depths of Manaan along with a Combat Sentinel, a Shadow tank, and this...Guardian.

 

First off, the Guardian had 35k health and was in a mix of decent gear and old leveling greens. Secondly, he was in Soresu form despite being slotted as DPS. Thirdly, he had no mainhand equipped. HE HAD NO MAINHAND EQUIPPED.

While the Shadow was respeccing and I was trying to draw the Guardian's attention to the whole NO MAINHAND OR OFFHAND situation, the Guardian ran in and Leeroyed the first group. You know, the one that's got an elite and four strongs?

 

Did I mention he had the Kuat Battle Marshal title on?

 

While trying in vain to go mano a mano with four angry Selkath and their battle droid, he proceeded to get the Sentinel, himself, and me killed (in that order), whereupon I threw a votekick on him. We got a Tactics Vanguard as a replacement, and proceeded to clear the instance without too much trouble (despite slightly low-geared DPS and one wipe on Sairisi due to a misplaced puddle taking out both damage dealers at once).

 

I've seen bads, I've seen scrubs, I've seen noobs, and I've seen Maradurrs, but I've never before seen anything like THAT. What a country!

[mephistosaurus]

I just had the most LOLWUT groupfinder teammate. I queued up on my Commando, got slotted as healer for HM Depths of Manaan along with a Combat Sentinel, a Shadow tank, and this...Guardian.

 

First off, the Guardian had 35k health and was in a mix of decent gear and old leveling greens. Secondly, he was in Soresu form despite being slotted as DPS. Thirdly, he had no mainhand equipped. HE HAD NO MAINHAND EQUIPPED.

While the Shadow was respeccing and I was trying to draw the Guardian's attention to the whole NO MAINHAND OR OFFHAND situation, the Guardian ran in and Leeroyed the first group. You know, the one that's got an elite and four strongs?

 

Did I mention he had the Kuat Battle Marshal title on?

 

While trying in vain to go mano a mano with four angry Selkath and their battle droid, he proceeded to get the Sentinel, himself, and me killed (in that order), whereupon I threw a votekick on him. We got a Tactics Vanguard as a replacement, and proceeded to clear the instance without too much trouble (despite slightly low-geared DPS and one wipe on Sairisi due to a misplaced puddle taking out both damage dealers at once).

 

I've seen bads, I've seen scrubs, I've seen noobs, and I've seen Maradurrs, but I've never before seen anything like THAT. What a country!

 

Oh I wished you would have recorded that lol!

Edited October 10, 2015 by mephistosaurus

[BobFredJohn]

Get a pop for HM rakata on my merc healer. Group is sin tank and 2 other (cant remember, they weren't around long). While waiting for a dps to load in I mouse over people to check hp's and buff bar. Sin tank is in surging charge. While I am looking at their bar they pop an endurance stim.

 

The sin writes: "what?"

me: "?"

sin: "I'm not a tank"

me: "I know, I assumed you would respect, based on the stim you just chose"

sin: "the dumb game make me a tank"

dps: "no it didn't, you made you a tank"

sin: "shut up noob, I am not a tank"

me: "we can see that, but clearly you queued as one"

sin: "no I didn't you f-ing ret**d"

 

The other dps decides they have had enough and leave. Tank leaves too and me and other dps follow suit.

 

Seems pretty normal, nothing weird there, except that this sin the proceeded to bombard me (and I assume the others) with whispers about how thick we were because he knows he did not queue as tank. Some people just cant accept they may have made a mistake

 

I did it myself once, months ago with a low lvl scoundrel healer. I clicked gf queue without checking and a pop came up with me slotted in dps. I mentioned it to the group but they didn't mind because the person slotted as healer had made the same mistake, they were dps.

[trashy_spartan]

I took aggro 3 times on the rancor mini-boss after the 1st boss. The fight lasted less than 1 minute and he regained aggro only because of taunts. Some people are bad enough to make those FP difficult, I'll easily admit that, but don't be a douche and play your role. Shorter queue times are not an excuse to queue as a tank or a healer if you're DPS.

 

You sure have never tanked HM BH otherwise you would know that those mini-boss have aggro switch and that taunt are ineffective during the aggro switch.

Edited October 10, 2015 by trashy_spartan

[LudhaninRolgge]

You sure have never tanked HM BH otherwise you would know that those mini-boss have aggro switch and that taunt are ineffective during the aggro switch.

 

I'm not a tank, so I obviously have not tanked anything. But that's not the only time I took agrro, just the one I remember the most. Anyway, tagging in a role that's not yours in order to have faster pops is a bad attitude. Go tank an op if, as this DPS-tank said to me, DPS can tank.

[trashy_spartan]

I'm not a tank, so I obviously have not tanked anything. But that's not the only time I took agrro, just the one I remember the most. Anyway, tagging in a role that's not yours in order to have faster pops is a bad attitude. Go tank an op if, as this DPS-tank said to me, DPS can tank.

 

FYI, I've solo tanked rava and ToS, with a dps off tanking so yeah, dps can off-tank in ops.

[VerpineVSN]

FYI, I've solo tanked rava and ToS, with a dps off tanking so yeah, dps can off-tank in ops.

 

The only fight you really need that for is Bulo. I've single tanked every single other fight in both, with no DPS offtaunting anything. And its only doable on Bulo since they nerfed the scatterblaster damage.

[LudhaninRolgge]

FYI, I've solo tanked rava and ToS, with a dps off tanking so yeah, dps can off-tank in ops.

 

Precisely, DPS can OFF-tank, not main tank and that was the point

[trashy_spartan]

The only fight you really need that for is Bulo. I've single tanked every single other fight in both, with no DPS offtaunting anything. And its only doable on Bulo since they nerfed the scatterblaster damage.

 

A dps has to tank unit 2 otherwise healers gonna have a bad time.

 

Precisely, DPS can OFF-tank, not main tank and that was the point

 

Well, some guys did a 8 mara DF/DP run back in the days so it might be possible to do a rava/ToS without tanks but I don't play dps very often.

Now, if you think you need a tank in HM FP, the anwser is no. They can be done with 3dps/1H, 2dps/1H and the best players are two-manning them.

[LudhaninRolgge]

Well, some guys did a 8 mara DF/DP run back in the days so it might be possible to do a rava/ToS without tanks but I don't play dps very often.

Now, if you think you need a tank in HM FP, the anwser is no. They can be done with 3dps/1H, 2dps/1H and the best players are two-manning them.

 

Still, how is it a good attitude ? DPS tagging as heal is bad, but DPS tagging as tank is not that bad. Because logic

[ZeroPlus]

...

Now, if you think you need a tank in HM FP, the anwser is no. They can be done with 3dps/1H, 2dps/1H and the best players are two-manning them.

 

The answer is "yes" when it is a PUG.

 

You want to do it with 3 DPS and a Healer, or 2 DPS and Healer, or just as 2 players, go ahead do it with your guild or friends.

 

Don't join the queue as a Tank/Healer when you are a DPS and expect the rest of the group to accept you just "because".