The weird people you meet in Group Finder.

[Halinalle]

Over two (2) years ago most common strategy mentioned in guides was "focus fire Xander" for Cademimu SM.

Now it seems if you don't follow HM/NiM strategy in SM version you're weird.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Halinalle

[fire-breath]

Over two (2) years ago most common strategy mentioned in guides was "focus fire Xander" for Cademimu SM.

Now it seems if you don't follow HM/NiM strategy in SM version you're weird.

 

No, I said that you are not weird if you follow HM strategy.

A cow is an animal but not every animal is a cow

[Sinapus]

It's funny. I have completed SM Czerka Core Meltdown multiple times, defeated the Duneclaw 12 times, but I have a couple of wipes because I somehow kept grabbing aggro at the wrong moment and suddenly I'm a moron.

 

I guess I will have to make sure I end up in a group with a tank instead of 3 DPS smugglers and my healer scoundrel so my "moron" status will not harm the calm of my teammates in a particular PUG.

 

(I suspect it was my healing of my teammates who kept getting massive health loss, and I did try to run to the generator when it looked like it was following me, but a couple times I ran for the kolto station and didn't notice it was following me until it was too late. I guess next time I'll heal myself as much as possible and see if that works.)

 

Edit: ......aaaaaaand I just remembered the "Alt-F" focus target command which would have helped me a bit. Of course, I'll forget next time I play that flashpoint. *sigh*

Edited April 27, 2014 by Sinapus

[AdrianDmitruk]

Back to entertaining GF stories.

 

I queue on my healer and get a HM Hammer Station pop. Unknown to me, the other 3 are on ts together but they tell me nothing of this. Tank is a bit slow (though not obnoxiously so) to pull so sentinel starts making pulls. On the way to the first boss, sentinel runs way ahead and pulls, the tank is still behind me, so facing the healer's dilemma of wipe or heal, I heal, only to have the sentinel camo out and dump his aggro on me. We end up wiping due to the stupidity but the second time the sentinel actually lets the tank pull (for once) and fight goes as planned.

 

Then more facepulls from sent. complete with said sent running 50+m ahead of group, on way to second boss. I ask him to please let tank pull. Of course, he doesn't listen. So I utterly stop healing him, but unfortunately for me NOW the tank comes in and grabs the aggro AFTER the force camo, so my healing boycott doesn't have the intended effect. This happens repeatedly, with the sent mocking me because my attempts at letting him die aren't working thanks to cooldown abuse and the tank.

 

Eventually I whisper the tank to stop covering for the sentinel's recklessness before I leave the group. The second (non-dick) dps then breaks down and tells me, "don't worry, we're in ts together."

 

At this point I can only conclude that the sent and tank are friends on a healer troll run (healers are more common than tanks on my server so tanks think they can even piss off healers now, not just dps), so I put the sent on ignore and click leave group. Only by now the sent has pulled the last mob before the second boss (LOL) and the tank is taunting off sent, so I get the "you will be removed from the instance in 30 seconds" timer. I do nothing but hang back and wait for the timer to finish so I can ****, thereby following through on my threat and sentencing the whole lot of them to at least one wipe; because I didn't heal and have 0 aggro, the timer expires and I'm out of instance/group before I get any aggro.

 

I go to requeue, and am pleasantly surprised by no GF lockout (probably because I "left" by inadvertently getting myself kicked out of instance). So I requeue and am even more pleasantly surprised by an instapop HM Athiss with a different group. I calmly ask the new group to not do anything rash (and tell them I just got out of a facepulling sentinel with tank letting sentinel camo out of his **** group), and have a nice, stress-free run, all the while grinning about how the trolls would have to find a replacement healer right before their boss fight.

Edited April 26, 2014 by AdrianDmitruk

[Darkelefantos]

while grinning about how the trolls would have to find a replacement healer right before their boss fight.

 

Meh, Hammer Station's second boss is just Vorgan the Volcano (+Riflor's Champions), doubt you caused them more inconvenience than they did you.

That said, I don't see why people have the tendency to be rude to people in certain roles. "Bullying" the healer would *never* cross my mind, mostly because I prefer my characters alive, but also because I'm generally a nice guy.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Darkelefantos

[AdrianDmitruk]

Meh, Hammer Station's second boss is just Vorgan the Volcano (+Riflor's Champions), doubt you caused them more inconvenience than they did you.

That said, I don't see why people have the tendency to be rude to people in certain roles. "Bullying" the healer would *never* cross my mind, mostly because I prefer my characters alive, but also because I'm generally a nice guy.

 

Meh I suppose they could have tried it by getting a healer companion out, but companions' heals have significantly longer cooldowns than pure healers so it would have been a bit of a gamble.

 

Meanwhile the instapop I got when I immediately requeued tells me the GF needed a healer at the time I left--so the first group's loss was directly the second group's gain. Even if the troll group did go the healer companion route, I still relished the feeling of being able to troll them back without consequence or having to wait in queue on account of a tank abusing his role to cover for a troll friend.

[cefert]

got another little story to tell get another group for mando raiders on hm and what do i get?? sent dps with only 21k hp commando heals with only 25k hp shadow tank had about 34k hp but also seemed very squishy as well we all almost die on the first so i say to myself there is no way we are going to get past the boarding party bosses so i lose all hope and drop group:(

[Loc_n_lol]

got another little story to tell get another group for mando raiders on hm and what do i get?? sent dps with only 21k hp commando heals with only 25k hp shadow tank had about 34k hp but also seemed very squishy as well we all almost die on the first so i say to myself there is no way we are going to get past the boarding party bosses so i lose all hope and drop group:(

Eh, don't judge a book by its cover.

I mean... I would have a bad feeling too, but you never know how it will go until you actually try. I have a screenshot from a completely random pug I did a few months back. Czerka Meltdown HM.

Am Vanguard Tank, have 33.5k HP stimboosted (sufficient, but not great)

One DPS has 31.8k HP (decent)

the other DPS has 21k HP (very low)

and the healer 23.8k HP (also quite low)

This is us standing over the corpse of the Vigilant. Whole flashpoint went surprisingly smoothly. It's obvious the players knew what they were doing, and that made up for the lack of gear.

[SebastiaanZ]

Just finshed a KDY run on Tomb of Freedon Nadd, with an Assassin Tank that wanted to tank, which is fine by me, he even had the Dark Charge on. However he kept playing Ranged instead of Melee. He even taunted, which was perfect, but he then just ran away and attacked the boss from max range .... some people never learn.

[Halinalle]

Every time I queue for KDY I learn something new.

 

During last few days I've met few high level Shadows (mostly tanks) who:

- Keep Force Wave on cooldown at all times

- Breaks CC every time.

- Last but not least: If they see green circle on ground they make sure there's no enemies on that area.

 

Is Force Wave/Overload really part of tank Shadow/Assassin rotation? It sure looks like superior opener.

[cefert]

Eh, don't judge a book by its cover.

I mean... I would have a bad feeling too, but you never know how it will go until you actually try. I have a screenshot from a completely random pug I did a few months back. Czerka Meltdown HM.

Am Vanguard Tank, have 33.5k HP stimboosted (sufficient, but not great)

One DPS has 31.8k HP (decent)

the other DPS has 21k HP (very low)

and the healer 23.8k HP (also quite low)

This is us standing over the corpse of the Vigilant. Whole flashpoint went surprisingly smoothly. It's obvious the players knew what they were doing, and that made up for the lack of gear.

 

true ill keep that in mind for the next time i que up its just groups with low gear just usually dont make it through a 55 hm without someone argueing or rage quitting but next time i get a group like this ill keep that in mind thanks

[TACeMossie]

Every time I queue for KDY I learn something new.

 

During last few days I've met few high level Shadows (mostly tanks) who:

- Keep Force Wave on cooldown at all times

- Breaks CC every time.

- Last but not least: If they see green circle on ground they make sure there's no enemies on that area.

 

Is Force Wave/Overload really part of tank Shadow/Assassin rotation? It sure looks like superior opener.

 

To be fair, if they are Infiltration/Deception specced, its their only AoE that is worth even thinking about using. Shadows/Assasins have 5 AoE moves ever available to them:

 

Force Breach/Discharge - Requires Tank Stance

Slow Time/Wither - Requires 36 points in Tank Tree

Force in Balance/Death Field - Requires Balance tree

Force Wave/Overload - Knockback

Whirling Blow/Lacerate - about half as powerful as Auto Attack, with a 40 force cost

 

So yeah, their only AoE that even thinks about doing slightly useful damage when not tank specced is Force in Balance/Death Field. And if they aren't Balance/Madness specced or hybridding, then they are stuck with Force Wave/Overload as their ONLY AoE move.

 

Seriously, why couldn't Lightning Storm/Force Quake be a universal Inquisitor/Consular ability (all the other legacy abilities are class specific, not advanced class specific, so Legacy Lightning Storm never made any sense to me). Or at least Spinning Strikes! For the sake of my sanity doing KDY with shadows/sins, PLEASE GIVE THEM SPINNING STRIKES!!!!

 

(Spinning Strikes is a only-available-to-mobs move that seems to be a melee version of Force Quake/Force Storm, but without the knockdown effect)

[Halinalle]

To be fair, if they are Infiltration/Deception specced, its their only AoE that is worth even thinking about using. Shadows/Assasins have 5 AoE moves ever available to them:

 

I actually don't see that many Infiltration/Deception specced Shadow/Assassins in KDY or in FP in general. It's fun spec.

 

The ones I'm talking about use Combat/Force technique (Shadow) or Dark Charge/Lightning Charge (Assassin). They can be middle tree but in that case they use wrong form.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Halinalle

[krakadyla]

Sorry for the TL;DR guys.

 

Cademimu SM.

 

Me, level 28 Sentinel, 34 level Sage healer and two Shadows, tank and a DPS. One of the Shadows tends to use overload on everything and spout cute little white noise in the chat, such as "Leave these droids for me, I need mats", but nothing extraordinary so far. Well, other than them both needing on some blue cunning pistol. And placing markers on trash. And one of them complaining "This is where we lost last time you guys :(" before another run-of-the-mill trash mob. But since healer's got a Living Legend title and lives it, we plow forward with no incidents.

 

Then the Wookie cometh. Suspecting how the tank isn't exactly experienced, I offer to lure the Wookie to the spot next to the vehicle to confuse piggie mobs. "Okay!", says the Shadow, promptly charges the Wookie and stays firmly in the place as if suddenly sprouting roots. Fine, I think. Newbie, confused, happens. Again -- because the healer is that good -- I am the only casualty, I get rezzed, Strength ear piece drops and Shadow tank promptly needs on it.

 

...I admit, I swear a lot. And when raised from the ignominious death by a band of little tech Pigberts, well, it kind of natural to swear, right? So, with a little help of expletives I form my opinion about the ninjas, and on we go. Not going to ragequit over a piece of leveling gear.

 

Then the following happens in the chat.

 

"Hey healer, where were the heals?" says the tank with a coy ";)" smiley.

"Had to keep myself alive because you couldn't hold aggro", says the Healer.

"Um, but I am just off-tanking, you see," the tank says, and only then I notice that yes, the Blabbermouth is flagged as DPS and the real tank -- who never pulls -- is the Ninja.

"Two tanks are bad for a healer", i say at the cannons. I didn't even try suggesting we could run past by this point.

"Anyway I didn't need on that earpiece", the Blabbermouth decides to switch topic.

"I know", I say. "It's the other one."

"I'll put him on ignore!" takes the stance Blabbermouth.

"Who, me?" the Ninja wakes up at this point.

"See any other motherloving ninjas around? I bet you'll need on everything else too, you filthy piece of organic waste," - that's me. Yeah, well. I swear a lot.

"Now her too! I don't need this crap! If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all!"

 

Uh-oh. Seems like I violated Blabbermouth's delicate sensibilities. Oh well. Maybe a kid or an old lady or something. Maybe I really swear too much.

 

We get to Orthol.

 

"I hate this guy" -- Blabbermouth.

"Me too" -- Ninja.

"It's easy, just kite him away from the fire" -- Healer.

"Okay, we'll try", one of them says.

 

Orthol is in the middle. Me and the Healer are in the usual corner. The Shadow Tank Brigade takes Orthol to the very quarter the first rocket always starts. The result is predictable.

 

"I didn't stand in any fire and still died!" complains the Blabbermouth, as rocket flames gently caress his corpse from above.

"You are a bleeping moron," says the Healer. In front of my PC, I nod.

"Stay both in the group after we done so that I can ignore you both!" -- you really don't have to reinforce Healer's statement here, Blabeermouth.

 

 

At this point, all I can think is to die, rez, kick the double dead weight and offer the Healer to finish it with our companions. But I won't go without the fight, oh heck no, Orthol. And so I fight and Healer heals. And then we run. And then I fight and Healer heals, and then we run. And then I fight and...

 

"So you want to prove you can take this guy? Pft, be my guest!" mocks us the charred corpse of Blabbermouth.

 

...one eternity later Orthol is down to a sliver of life, I miss the cue and die in flames. But the Healer -- I should really dub her Miracle Maker, because she kept my mediocre Sentinel alive and healthy all the time -- finishes him off while holding tooth and nail to the last shred of her own life.

 

"...um, rez please?" Blabbermouth hints helpfully.

 

She rezzes me. We check the loot -- two STR pieces. The Shadow corpses, who suddenly seem to be much more courteous than their live counterparts, roll pass. I get them. Healer then hobbles (seriously, it was so easy to imagine how she makes those few last steps, held by sheer will, dragging her lightsaber behind her) towards the console. Clicks on it.

 

''...guys? Rez?"

 

She teleports out.

 

"REZ!!!"

 

As I leave the group and the area, I catch the glimpse of last words from the Blabbermouth -- "If you don't rez me now, not only I will ignore you, I will DUEL you!!!!"

 

The curtain falls.

[NedrudRelyt]

I don't think I can nail down just one group. I do the Galactic Conflict every week on 1 tank, 3 healers, and 1 dps. However, I started this game on an Assassin tank. And as I heal a lot, I pay a lot of attention to what the tank does. The following things kill me a little each week:

1) Guard on the healer when there are very well geared DPS (read: high threat).

Please, I don't need the 5% less damage, I need that 180 lvl, 4 pc set bonused rauder there to not tank the FP.

2) Casting Crushing Darkness - ever. It has a 10m range, and it takes you 2-3x as long to cast while you're getting beat on. Consider Whirlwind the same (if you have to be told these things, you don't know how/when to use it).

3) Putting Phasewalk in melee. Oh thanks, but I'll stand over here, out of range of the boss's AOE/Knockback/add spawn, etc. There's some misguided notion going around that it increases heals ON the people inside it. No, it increases the heals DEALT by the people inside it. Though the anni rauder beside you likes it there - after all, she's tanking most of this.

4) Using Force Lightning with anything less than 3 stacks of harnessed darkness. Even if you are popping Recklessness to use it at range, there's this thing called Force Pull that does more threat.

5) Letting Energized fade without using it. You can let Conspirator's Cloak drop, I'd prefer you didn't, but it's alright. But Energized? No, use Shock, use it now.

6) Saves Wither and Discharge for AOE groups only. These are mitigation placed on the target. And Wither stacks Harnessed Darkness. And it doesn't effect CC (Discharge does). You can let Discharge's miss chance debuff wear down before you refresh, but please use Wither as often as possible.

7) Saves Force Shroud and Deflection like they are virginity and this is a convent. No, I can't heal your sub 30k/800mit butt through every pull without some effort on your part. While we're at it, how about pulling from stealth for the +4% dmg reduction?

This is by no means everything, and it is very largely aimed at Assassin tanks (I've just never learned Juggernaut or Powertech ... yet).

Edited April 27, 2014 by NedrudRelyt

[TACeMossie]

I don't think I can nail down just one group. I do the Galactic Conflict every week on 1 tank, 3 healers, and 1 dps. However, I started this game on an Assassin tank. And as I heal a lot, I pay a lot of attention to what the tank does. The following things kill me a little each week:

1) Guard on the healer when there are very well geared DPS (read: high threat).

Please, I don't need the 5% less damage, I need that 180 lvl, 4 pc set bonused rauder there to not tank the FP.

2) Casting Crushing Darkness - ever. It has a 10m range, and it takes you 2-3x as long to cast while you're getting beat on. Consider Whirlwind the same (if you have to be told these things, you don't know how/when to use it).

3) Putting Phasewalk in melee. Oh thanks, but I'll stand over here, out of range of the boss's AOE/Knockback/add spawn, etc. There's some misguided notion going around that it increases heals ON the people inside it. No, it increases the heals DEALT by the people inside it. Though the anni rauder beside you likes it there - after all, she's tanking most of this.

4) Using Force Lightning with anything less than 3 stacks of harnessed darkness. Even if you are popping Recklessness to use it at range, there's this thing called Force Pull that does more threat.

5) Letting Energized fade without using it. You can let Conspirator's Cloak drop, I'd prefer you didn't, but it's alright. But Energized? No, use Shock, use it now.

6) Saves Wither and Discharge for AOE groups only. These are mitigation placed on the target. And Wither stacks Harnessed Darkness. And it doesn't effect CC (Discharge does). You can let Discharge's miss chance debuff wear down before you refresh, but please use Wither as often as possible.

7) Saves Force Shroud and Deflection like they are virginity and this is a convent. No, I can't heal your sub 30k/800mit butt through every pull without some effort on your part. While we're at it, how about pulling from stealth for the +4% dmg reduction?

This is by no means everything, and it is very largely aimed at Assassin tanks (I've just never learned Juggernaut or Powertech ... yet).

 

No idea for obvious problems for Juggs, but with PTs you have the right to rage whenever they use Unload or Missile Blast. They both suck really badly.

 

I cant actually think of a move I took off my Guardians Quickbar when tanking though... Maybe saber throw

[cefert]

i got another interesting story to tell this weird experience happens on hammer station on hm we get a vanguard tank that only has 22 k hp we make it past all the mobs no problem till we hit the first boss the tank fails to hold aggro on him and causes us to wipe on the first boss so we try again and we kill him on our second try the tank was really hard to keep alive idk how many times he died on that boss we had to have the commando dps jump in and help heal and botht the sage and healer and the commando dps could not keep him alive so i whisper the healer and say that the tank si really squishy so healer inspects his gear and finds out he is only in lvl 50 gear and he is missing a relic so we boot the tank due to him being very squishy here is where the commando dps starts to act like a fool and says its just hammer station we can clear trash without a tank and i reply with no we cant some mobs here can wipe us he replies back with its just hammer station i am now starting to get annoyed by this guys stupidity i say to myself does this guy have adhd??? can he not wait 10 mins for a new tank? what does the commando dps do? goes and pulls a huge mob we intended to skip which causes me him and the healer to wipe after that wipe our new tank came along and we finished the fp no problem ughh!! i was annoyed by that commando dps i was so tempted to kick him

[TACeMossie]

i got another interesting story to tell this weird experience happens on hammer station on hm we get a vanguard tank that only has 22 k hp we make it past all the mobs no problem till we hit the first boss the tank fails to hold aggro on him and causes us to wipe on the first boss so we try again and we kill him on our second try the tank was really hard to keep alive idk how many times he died on that boss we had to have the commando dps jump in and help heal and botht the sage and healer and the commando dps could not keep him alive so i whisper the healer and say that the tank si really squishy so healer inspects his gear and finds out he is only in lvl 50 gear and he is missing a relic so we boot the tank due to him being very squishy here is where the commando dps starts to act like a fool and says its just hammer station we can clear trash without a tank and i reply with no we cant some mobs here can wipe us he replies back with its just hammer station i am now starting to get annoyed by this guys stupidity i say to myself does this guy have adhd??? can he not wait 10 mins for a new tank? what does the commando dps do? goes and pulls a huge mob we intended to skip which causes me him and the healer to wipe after that wipe our new tank came along and we finished the fp no problem ughh!! i was annoyed by that commando dps i was so tempted to kick him

 

Did you cleanse the laser? Cause that does % based damage depending on its stacks. At 10 stacks it insta kills, even in full dread masters gear optimized for that fight. You kicked a tank that could have very well tanked it for you, because your healer didnt know the fight.

 

BTW I used HM flashpoints to go from level 50 gear to level 55 gear, all before patch 2.4 was even released, because the healers knew what they were doing.

[venomlash]

Did you cleanse the laser? Cause that does % based damage depending on its stacks. At 10 stacks it insta kills, even in full dread masters gear optimized for that fight. You kicked a tank that could have very well tanked it for you, because your healer didnt know the fight.

 

BTW I used HM flashpoints to go from level 50 gear to level 55 gear, all before patch 2.4 was even released, because the healers knew what they were doing.

 

Dude dude dude I'm sorry, 22k health usually means critically-undergeared for a DPS in level 55 hardmodes. A tank with 22k health won't have a chance without the best healer in the world backing him up.

[SW_display_name]

Sorry for the TL;DR guys.

No such thing in this thread. These stories cannot be abridged, we must know every fabulous detail.

[cefert]

Dude dude dude I'm sorry, 22k health usually means critically-undergeared for a DPS in level 55 hardmodes. A tank with 22k health won't have a chance without the best healer in the world backing him up.

 

yes the tank was very squishy the healer and the commando dps could not keep him alive and the sage healer had excellent heals so there is no way its was the healers fault the tank was just to damn squishy

[cefert]

Did you cleanse the laser? Cause that does % based damage depending on its stacks. At 10 stacks it insta kills, even in full dread masters gear optimized for that fight. You kicked a tank that could have very well tanked it for you, because your healer didnt know the fight.

 

BTW I used HM flashpoints to go from level 50 gear to level 55 gear, all before patch 2.4 was even released, because the healers knew what they were doing.

dude there is no way he could have tanked that with 22k hp the sage healer knew the fight and had excellent heals and was cleansing him of the debuff so there is no way it was the healers fault the tank simply was under geared and was really squishy

[TACeMossie]

dude there is no way he could have tanked that with 22k hp the sage healer knew the fight and had excellent heals and was cleansing him of the debuff so there is no way it was the healers fault the tank simply was under geared and was really squishy

 

Thanks to the wonderful website askmrrobot.com, I was able to determine that in a best case scenario for mitigation, full dread forged gear takes 40% less dps than poorly itemized level 50 gear even with the dread forged gear having a set bonus when normal gear does not. This endurance heavy gear ended up being 3k health above your estimates, where properly itemized level 50 gear was down to 20% less dps for dread forged than Rakata lvl 50 gear (stuff from the makeb vendor). As from this point onwards im comparing to dread forged, thats 25% more DPS. Those HM flashpoints were designed for artifact gear (level 53 stuff) which takes about 20% more dps than dread forged, though it does ~40% less dps and heals. Most people nowdays run around with dread forged quality gear.

 

If you cant heal a tank that is barely undergeared for a flashpoint while you are massively overgeared for it, the tank is not the problem. Especially since there were no problems until the boss, including the trash pack that ALWAYS causes problems

Edited April 28, 2014 by TACeMossie

[slafko]

During last few days I've met few high level Shadows (mostly tanks) who:

- Keep Force Wave on cooldown at all times

Is Force Wave/Overload really part of tank Shadow/Assassin rotation? It sure looks like superior opener.

 

Force Wave isn't used in proper shadow tanking rotations. And by "proper" I mean (mini)boss fights. In areas swarming with weak mobs, FW is a great tool because it does damage and knocks the mobs down for a few seconds. In KDY, where healers are scarce, this meansa few more seconds you're not taking damage. Because the mobs are on the floor, admiring the tiles.

 

I leveled my shadow as an infiltration dps in KDY. And FW was a great tool because I was able to neutralise several mobs, kill one while they were on the ground and kill a second one before it fired a shot (Project+Shadow Strike). in setups without a healer, this meant a lot less incoming damage and cut down on our regen times.

 

As a shadow tank, I only use FW when doing dailies or throwing mobs off bridges in flashpoints.

Edited April 28, 2014 by slafko

[slafko]

dude there is no way he could have tanked that with 22k hp the sage healer knew the fight and had excellent heals and was cleansing him of the debuff so there is no way it was the healers fault the tank simply was under geared and was really squishy

I was tanking those flashpoints with a Shadow tank in optimized Dread Guard gear and around 23k health. So, no - I do not think your tank was undergeared.