The weird people you meet in Group Finder.

[LudhaninRolgge]

I didn't say "right" or "wrong", because on each side, people do insist that THEIR way to do it is the right one,

and that the OTHER side is the wrong one.

It's almost like with parties in politics now.

 

If you see the correct way of doing a pull as the less stressfull for everybody, the weak -> strong is the best. It reduces the amount of damage taken by the group the fastest thus relief stress on the healer. If you do it the other way around, the group take more damage for a longer time which can stress both the tank (trying to grab mobs who escaped his grasp) and the healer (trying to heal massive focused damage on the tank or on the whole group).

[VerpineVSN]

I can actually understand when people don't know what a cc is, or even what the difference is between a stealth cc and an I combat cc. For one thing, I knew the first time I saw someone type cc in chat I had no idea what the acronym meant. Fortunately someone else did, and I saw them use whirlwind or something. I put 2 and 2 together. The difference is when people specifically - and repeatedly - target already cced enemies or think a hard stun is a cc or aoe the entire group when it isn't necessary. Point being, I don't think it's an issue if people don't understand what you mean if you just say "cc" in chat.

[gabigool]

I didn't say "right" or "wrong", because on each side, people do insist that THEIR way to do it is the right one,

and that the OTHER side is the wrong one.

It's almost like with parties in politics now.

 

You make it sound like it comes down to preference. Objectively, it is easier to control a spawn if the DPS kill the weaker mobs first. Yes, people dot spread off stronger mobs, I get that. Yes sometimes there is that one mob worth taking care of first. But on a group of 8 mobs, with two elites, two strongs and 4 normals, the healer is going to take less agro if the weaker mobs are killed first.

 

At lower levels, this is far more pronounced. In tacticals, even moreso. It's just simply good form. Obviously in practice as a DPS I'm going to pick the center mob and AoE the **** out of everything. I'm just tired of seeing, say, a Marksman sniper open with LS/Ambush on the gold. It's bad play and will hurt groups with sub-par tank/healers.

 

Unless you are LoSing (and to the above poster who said LoSing will indeed move ranged mobs - to be more precise LoSing is done solely because of ranged mobs. There's no need to LoS melee mobs.) there is a valid reason for killing weak -> strong.

 

Last I'm saying on that, wasn't the point of my post.

Edited May 21, 2016 by gabigool

[Khevar]

I didn't say "right" or "wrong", because on each side, people do insist that THEIR way to do it is the right one,

and that the OTHER side is the wrong one.

It's almost like with parties in politics now.

I've been playing this game and reading this forum for over 4+ years, and I've seen dozens and dozens of posts on "kill order", and they've always been about weak->strong->gold (specialized raid encounter mechanics notwithstanding).

 

And I've never seen anyone recommend doing the opposite.

 

Ever.

 

Of course, I've experienced people DOING the opposite. But these have been players that are unfamiliar with game mechanics, or are lacking environmental awareness (such the healer getting pummeled while they focus on the gold), or only care about watching their "big number fly text rotation" which doesn't work on weak mobs because they die too fast.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Khevar

[Kingsbount]

Personally i hate los pulls passionately. They put a lot of unneeded pressure on both tank and healer just because some dps are not willing to cc and follow proper kill order.

 

This only means that you are bad.

LoS pulling is VERY effective mechanic.

The other question is if you CAN'T handle with pulled mobs... But this still leads to conclusion that you are bad.

DCD was designed to be USED. Not just hanging on your quickbar in between boss fights.

[trashy_spartan]

LoS pulling is VERY effective mechanic.

 

LoS pull is most of the time a waste of time and is mostly done by inexperience tanks. You have force pull, grapple or saber reflect to deal with ranged.

[Khaleijo]

LoS pull is most of the time a waste of time and is mostly done by inexperience tanks. You have force pull, grapple or saber reflect to deal with ranged.

 

That pull/grapple works if there are only 2 ranged, but not if there is a spreaded group with more of them and not everyone is jugg or guardian

 

It depends not only on the tank, if he is good or bad but on the others too. If my damage dealing group mates are bad, i prefer a LOS pull much more often, because it is the most efficient way to ensure that the healer isn't shot, while they have gold fever or take ages to kill stuff.

If i have good players with me, following kill order, knowing how to kill efficiently, then there is no real need to LOS most of the time.

While i could tank such a group without an LOS pull, it is more work then to keep them on me instead of the healer for example if no one else is hitting silver or weak enemies. Why not use tactics to make it easier for me? After all i like to have some fun time too, enjoying to tank doesn't mean that i want to do everything the hard way.

 

Not talking about LOS at every corner, but there are enough trash groups in almost every classic FP, that are killed way easier if pulled with LOS. There are certain groups in The Foundry, Boarding Party, Hammer Station or Mandalorian Raiders that come to my mind instantly, where i prefer to LOS with good groups too, even if it is just to get them all in one place to bomb them.

Another advantage of LOS pull is, that it gives people time to CC without gaining aggro from initiating the pull and keeping the cc out of range from the spot where the other stuff is killed.

[Kingsbount]

LoS pull is most of the time a waste of time and is mostly done by inexperience tanks. You have force pull, grapple or saber reflect to deal with ranged.

 

lol kiddo

"...mostly done by inexperience tanks..."

For real?

No, seriously?

DEEEEEEEEM!!!! Ladies and gentlemans!!! We have a L33T tenk here!

 

OMG you are SOOOOOO funny... Im almost spit out my lungs from laughing

[midianlord]

lol kiddo

"...mostly done by inexperience tanks..."

For real?

No, seriously?

DEEEEEEEEM!!!! Ladies and gentlemans!!! We have a L33T tenk here!

 

OMG you are SOOOOOO funny... Im almost spit out my lungs from laughing

 

I'd find people like that funnier if I had less painful/bad/needlessly difficult/toxic experiences because of them :/

 

I wonder how many /ignore lists he's on by now?

 

Probably one of those...errrmmm..."Little boys whom God made extra-special"...who queues DPS as tank to get faster pops and then waits until the last second on loot rolls so he can "need" the drop out from under the person that actually needs it, and then either insta-drops group or hurf-blurfs "Because I'm a tank!" when called on it.

 

(Just in case I haven't made it clear in the past: I really, really flippin' despise "tanks" like that, and if this game allowed me to do so, then I'd be putting every possible effort into griefing them as hard as possible, as much as possible, for as long as possible until they quit the game for good. But then, lack of community-enforceable consequences for being a **** is why we have so many idiots like that in the first place in most MMOs anymore...)

Edited May 22, 2016 by midianlord

[ZeroPlus]

I'd find people like that funnier if I had less painful/bad/needlessly difficult/toxic experiences because of them :/

 

I wonder how many /ignore lists he's on by now?

 

Probably one of those...errrmmm..."Little boys whom God made extra-special"...who queues DPS as tank to get faster pops and then waits until the last second on loot rolls so he can "need" the drop out from under the person that actually needs it, and then either insta-drops group or hurf-blurfs "Because I'm a tank!" when called on it.

 

(Just in case I haven't made it clear in the past: I really, really flippin' despise "tanks" like that, and if this game allowed me to do so, then I'd be putting every possible effort into griefing them as hard as possible, as much as possible, for as long as possible until they quit the game for good. But then, lack of community-enforceable consequences for being a **** is why we have so many idiots like that in the first place in most MMOs anymore...)

 

For the past few weeks, I've been doing the following In Hard Modes (not in Tacticals, in Tacticals I don't really care): as soon as we zone in, I've taken to inspecting the Tank.

Just a quick look to see if they are in the correct stance and have gear with tank stats.

 

If I see nothing amiss, I say nothing.

 

If I do, I'll say in party chat, "<Tank_Name>: Please switch to tank stance and/or equip your tank gear." depending on what is missing.

Until they acknowledge either I don't move/take part in the initial FP conversation.

Sometimes, (rarely ), they will switch stance/equip gear and apologize for the mistake. I understand, these things happen, and we move on.

Most of the time they do neither or *worse*, they'll switch to tank stance and nothing else (no acknowledgement of the mistake, no switching to tank gear).

If they did neither (or only switched stance) I'll repeat my request.

If after a few more seconds they still don't correct things, or more likely try to defend themselves ("I don't need tank gear", "This is easy", "I'm bolstered NOOB" (!!!), etc.) I do the following:

1) type in party chat: "<Tank_Name>: This is a Hard Mode. In future, if you're not a Tank, don't queue as a tank for Hard Modes."

2) initiate a vote kick with the reason "not a tank".

 

7 out of 10 times, it will go through (and I'll get a "thank you" whisper from the healer), the "Tank" is kicked, we continue with a companion tank until we get a new tank and all is well.

 

The other times, I ask the group if they are really willing to go through the hassle of not having a tank in a Hard Mode.

If I'm greeted with silence, (or replies along the lines of "just move", "shut up", "we can do this", "stop being a wuss/noob/whatever", etc.), I'll request a kick on myself and just stand there ("why not just leave?" you ask, well I don't see why I should get a 15 minute lock out because someone else isn't following the rules). Generally a kick on me will follow and I'll wish them luck and be back in the queue a few seconds later waiting for my DPS pop.

Sometimes, (rarely ), someone else in the group will see the light and put in a new vote kick on the "Tank"; I vote; "Tank" is kicked; we continue with a companion tank until we get a new tank.

 

Since I've started doing this:

- I've had mostly uneventful/fun Hard Mode runs.

- most non-tanks have been kicked before we even started and the runs have been uneventful after that (and we generally get a new tank within a few minutes).

- I've been kicked twice. (As an aside: while waiting in the queue I monitored those groups using \who: both times the groups left the instance within 10-15 minutes .)

 

It really is that simple.

Put the "non-tanks" on the spot but don't be rude. Don't call them names. Just ask them to create the conditions necessary to fulfilling their role. If they are unable/unwilling to comply, explain to them what they did wrong and kick them. If the group is unwilling to kick him, stick to your guns and have them kick you. Either way, its a win.

 

This really should be standard practice. The sooner non-tanks realize they cannot get away with their behavior the sooner they will cease to exist.

 

(As an aside: DPS that queue as healers are a little harder to spot at the start, but the lack of healing will soon become evident. Don't be afraid to put them on the spot as well and kick them if needed. Better a companion healer than a non-healer.)

[Varchord]

(As an aside: DPS that queue as healers are a little harder to spot at the start, but the lack of healing will soon become evident. Don't be afraid to put them on the spot as well and kick them if needed. Better a companion healer than a non-healer.)

 

It's simple to spot commandos. But gosh darn I agree.

 

I was tanking battle of rishi(on hard). We wiped on the first boss in 30s because "healer" was really a DPS. When I voted for kick it turned out that he queued with 2 DPS and that he 'had' to queue as healer or group finder wouldn't let them. I told him that he didn't had to do anything and I left.

 

The second time I've encountered commando in armor pierce stance I asked him to switch to healing spec and waited for him to do so. He didn't, I've never even gotten an answer from him and the other 2 people in the party berated me for waiting and I left.

 

 

Also regarding DPS behaviour. I've just came back to the game after 2(?) years of absence, hit 65, bought 208 tank gear and the first thing I've noticed is that people don't give a s**** about kill order. I have to run from one ranged mob to the other to stop them from annihilating the healer while also keeping golds from DPS which are relentlessly pounding it. And they refuse to listen or even acknowledge when I ask them to burn weaker mobs first.

 

As someone said in this thread earlier. There are 2 cultures of kill order. And most DPS are following the wrong one

 

Hell I could also mention complete lack of CC understanding but I'm easily agitated.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Varchord

[ZeroPlus]

...

Also regarding DPS behaviour. I've just came back tot eh game after 2(?) years of absence, hit 65, bought 208 tank gear and the first thing I've noticed is that people don't give a s**** about kill order. I have to run from one ranged mob to other to stop them from annihilating healer while ALSO taunting golds from DPS which are relentlessly pounding it. And they refuse to listen or even acknowledge when I ask them to burn weaker mobs first.

...

 

Step 1: Tell them not to attack the Golds while other enemies are still alive.

Step 2: If they keep it up, whisper the healer not to heal them as they are about to learn a lesson "the hard way".

Step 3: Leap at the Gold but don't hit it. If the DPS attack the Gold, let them attack it. Go deal with the Strongs/Normals/Weaks until the DPS die. Taunt the Gold. Kill the Gold.

Step 4: Tell the DPS they'll live longer if they don't attack the Gold while other enemies are still alive.

Step 5: Repeat steps 3 and 4 until they learn (or leave in a rage; either is a win ).

 

Works wonders.

[TheRandomno]

Pretty standard story...

 

I queued for Depths of Manaan tactical, because I was told to practice the FP after failing at HM. Everything seems okay until the first boss. One of the DPS DCs, and the boss takes about 9 minutes. During the fight he reconnects but doesn't move. After the fight, we can't start the conversation with the terminal because he hasn't accepted it yet. I initiate a kick vote but it fails for some reason.

 

Eventually he DCs again so we can start the conversation. Afterwards I try kicking him again but it fails again. After a while the other two leave so I also do of course.

[LuxDragon]

They probably saved you a bit of pain. Even on SM, Manaan isn't as easy as other tacticals. The first boss at 9 minutes? Even with 3? That sounds like it was gonna fail all over.

[karmaann]

They probably saved you a bit of pain. Even on SM, Manaan isn't as easy as other tacticals. The first boss at 9 minutes? Even with 3? That sounds like it was gonna fail all over.

i'm on JC and for me so far, Manaan is a nightmare, it was a good one when it came out, now it's 9/10 a problem in random qe

 

from this Sorc - 62 - who fight the 2 droids with his Lightsaber (never use any of his lightning skills) even when they are shielded ....to a 27 sentinel who jump pull every mob he can in the corridors , i almost /quit as soon i arrive in now, it's always a futur /wipe experience

[midianlord]

[rant]

 

I can't deal with this level of bad anymore.

 

Almost every single try at a FP this weekend ends in failure because of these utterly hopeless, mindlessly zerging *********** kids with zero battlespace- or group-awareness.

 

Every.

 

Single.

 

***********.

 

One.

 

If on my Mercs/Commandos, then there's a chance that I can carry even them, as that's the class I'm best with, is most versatile (IMO --Maybe my Sorcs/Sages, too, although I'm nowhere near as fast/fluid with them), and are generally geared the best of my characters, but if you're pure DPS with no off-heals and/or no long duration CC, then you might as well stop grouping at all, anymore.

 

That's it, I'm done. This community is a complete waste of time, I'm sure that even these second-rate devs with their sainted "metrics" have seen this, so is it really any surprise that there is no new group content?

 

I'm sure they knew, even before we did, that this player-base is just too Gods-awfully bad to ever do anything with it, so why waste the resources?

 

**** it, done grouping.

 

Honestly, I'm not even sure why I still play this increasingly-terrible game anymore.

 

Bloody Hell

 

[/rant]

 

The one weird experience I had this weekend was a run of [HARD] Flashpoint: Battle of Rishi, where I got a decent group, and we even made a good stab at the bonus boss. Didn't get him, because the healer wasn't used to cleansing (like, ***? Yeah, see what I mean about this game!), but I came away knowing how he works now, and, even with a couple wipes at the end-boss, we got through without many problems, and in decent time.

 

Yeah, that's my weird experience:

 

A halfway-competent group and a good run on one of the harder instances in the entire game!

 

**** me, these people....

[KristoKal]

Been reading this thread long time, first post. Been wondering how bad luck someone have, run tons of flashpoints through gf. Usually get through without to mutch strugle. Tought, may be it server thing,m that we just had deasent peeps on Progenitor. Well, last week it changed.

 

First one was Tact Assault on tython. Was my sharpsooter 65, and commando 65. other was low lvl. Theyjust didnt know inctance, Get lost and pulled lot of skippable trash. But they talked and tried to learn. Im fine with that, was new once myself. And after all, many wipes, strugle and 1h, it was not that bad, People learned and we get through.

 

Then CZ meltdown, middle in progress group. Zoned in, first I saw was rant in chat how someone can be bad and didint know how to play. They was at same guild. 1 guy uses big words and just yelled how have to drag boss to green generators, Another apologies that he was new and didnt knew game through and through. We started, I get aggro, sandstorm begin, go to generator, guy with big mouth go after kolto and taunt??!! Miss generator. That one zone out after wipe. as do another one. Me and that "noob" pull out comps, I explaine tactics and we complete it,.

 

Actually, those was not so bad, just slow ones but someone learned something from those I hope. Now bad one. Tought to do 1 fast tactical for conquest before sleep. Korriban. Startde fine, First boss went down without problems. And then before second boss, one went insane, didnt join for dialogue, just runned around pulled everything and dieng, first we tought, that maybe new one, lets help and explain. When he just didnt hear and pulled everyone there was pullable, and after that didnt join for dialogue and when asked what you do, started to response like this : gggggggggggkuiuytegfdqkjhwedgo. Just standed jumping around and responsed to chat with those lines. Initatded vote kick, didnt went through, Asked one more time please come for dialogue, got same responce, Ignore, leave group, Maybe this one was 1 of those "funny" 10 y olds.

[benmas]

so i didn't have any part in the making of this but it is still funny to watch

 

skip to about 1:24:00 for the fun and fail to begin.

WARING: THE FOLLOWING MY RESULT IN MAJOR FACEPLAM AND LAUGHING.

 

EDIT: whilst watching what the DPS were actually doing i noticed...

The lightning sorc never uses affliction or crushing darkness when it has reduced cast

the dot mara nerver uses dots but instead uses annihilate ravage battering assault then many basic attacks

the dot jugg almost never applies his dots

the other DPS is just standing around doing nothing

 

the tank also keeps taunting and cleaving the raid, he appears to be also using a large number of basic attacks.

The healers appear to have brought there brains with them.

Edited May 31, 2016 by benmas

[josephinec]

so i didn't have any part in the making of this but it is still funny to watch

 

skip to about 1:24:00 for the fun and fail to begin.

WARING: THE FOLLOWING MY RESULT IN MAJOR FACEPLAM AND LAUGHING.

 

This is embarrassing.

[Pirana]

so i didn't have any part in the making of this but it is still funny to watch

 

skip to about 1:24:00 for the fun and fail to begin.

WARING: THE FOLLOWING MY RESULT IN MAJOR FACEPLAM AND LAUGHING.

 

EDIT: whilst watching what the DPS were actually doing i noticed...

The lightning sorc never uses affliction or crushing darkness when it has reduced cast

the dot mara nerver uses dots but instead uses annihilate ravage battering assault then many basic attacks

the dot jugg almost never applies his dots

the other DPS is just standing around doing nothing

 

the tank also keeps taunting and cleaving the raid, he appears to be also using a large number of basic attacks.

The healers appear to have brought there brains with them.

 

This is epic.

 

One min in, I'm thinking they'll all wipe on the rock/boulder phase, but then another minute passes, I'm looking at the boss' health and by then you know exactly what's going to happen... The fact they even got it under 50% was a moral victory, wait.... nvm.

[rantboi]

so i didn't have any part in the making of this but it is still funny to watch

 

skip to about 1:24:00 for the fun and fail to begin.

WARING: THE FOLLOWING MY RESULT IN MAJOR FACEPLAM AND LAUGHING.

 

EDIT: whilst watching what the DPS were actually doing i noticed...

The lightning sorc never uses affliction or crushing darkness when it has reduced cast

the dot mara nerver uses dots but instead uses annihilate ravage battering assault then many basic attacks

the dot jugg almost never applies his dots

the other DPS is just standing around doing nothing

 

the tank also keeps taunting and cleaving the raid, he appears to be also using a large number of basic attacks.

The healers appear to have brought there brains with them.

 

I'm pretty sure titan 6 has no cleave

[Memo-]

I'm pretty sure titan 6 has no cleave

 

He does, the one attack that goes like "thwump thwum thwump" and leaves a trail in the ground.

[Whojoo]

so i didn't have any part in the making of this but it is still funny to watch

 

skip to about 1:24:00 for the fun and fail to begin.

WARING: THE FOLLOWING MY RESULT IN MAJOR FACEPLAM AND LAUGHING.

 

EDIT: whilst watching what the DPS were actually doing i noticed...

The lightning sorc never uses affliction or crushing darkness when it has reduced cast

the dot mara nerver uses dots but instead uses annihilate ravage battering assault then many basic attacks

the dot jugg almost never applies his dots

the other DPS is just standing around doing nothing

 

the tank also keeps taunting and cleaving the raid, he appears to be also using a large number of basic attacks.

The healers appear to have brought there brains with them.

 

How? I mean... The hell how?!

there is this big thing hurting you. Your teammates are clearly attacking it. How can a dps do nothing in that situation....

I am less concerned with the other dps. Yea they hit the boss with a wet noodle, but at least they try ._.

 

Edit: with you I refer to the player in the video. Not the poster of this story or the person who uploaded the video

Edited June 3, 2016 by Whojoo

[rantboi]

He does, the one attack that goes like "thwump thwum thwump" and leaves a trail in the ground.

 

that's not really a cleave, it does a lot of damage if you're stacked no matter what direction the boss is facing or who it's targetting.

[Memo-]

that's not really a cleave, it does a lot of damage if you're stacked no matter what direction the boss is facing or who it's targetting.

 

That's Lots of Missiles, comes two times every location. But there is also the cleave attack that I described.