The weird people you meet in Group Finder.

[Memo-]

Exactly.

In any case - choosing role and not following it is a sign of disrespect to your teammates and inability to understand BASIC rules of MMORPG's.

Those people must be punished by always tanking in DPS spec and being healed by DPS classes. Period.

 

Well, maybe for HM flashpoints or operations, but not for tacticals. It doesn't make any difference what role they are in regards to what role they selected. If you get a dps with a healer designation, so what. Naturally it's courteous for the person who did the mistake to own up and say that they are in a different role, but the end result doesn't matter. 4 DPS is still as viable as any method.

[CheaterLL]

If you have BOTH Heal/Tank AND DPS selected, then GF will choose the non-DPS icon, regardless of your spec.

If you have ony one selected, then this icon will show up.

 

This is the same for SM FPs, TFPs, HM FPs and Ops.

[Haooll]

Well, maybe for HM flashpoints or operations, but not for tacticals. It doesn't make any difference what role they are in regards to what role they selected. If you get a dps with a healer designation, so what. Naturally it's courteous for the person who did the mistake to own up and say that they are in a different role, but the end result doesn't matter. 4 DPS is still as viable as any method.

 

true .. but it would be nice if the people either said "I'm in as heals but I'm dps" or "I'm in as tank but I'm dps" so the others know ... that way in tacticals we can do the kolto as needed rather than expecting heals/tanking.

 

I always queue with relevant spec only as a courtesy to the others in the group, it's the polite thing to do ... anything else in tac FP's is rude ... anyone who disagrees with that attitude is a cretin

[aerockyul]

Actually, the reason why the healer symbol shows up is because the player has the "Healer" role selected in the Group Finder Window. The same applies to the Tank symbol.

 

The game will not place the symbol on a player just because their class can heal or tank. The player has to have the role selected.

 

No, people with no clue are not selecting both roles. People who wanted faster pops did this before tacticals made the practice unnecessary. Some people are doing it now with HMFPs but if any of the others in the group value their time that will be an insta-kick if the person won't respec or they deliberately chose both rolls just for the fast pop and don't intend to follow that role.

 

This is what group finder does regarding the dual-roles...let's say you're a Sith Assassin. If you choose the dps version, you will eventually get 4 tanking abilities while leveling (tank stance, single taunt, group taunt, guard, not in that order). But you are playing this toon as a DPS, with DPS utility points and a DPS stance. Group finder, from the beginning, is going to default you in the DPS and TANK roles unless you untick one of the boxes. When you queue up as one of these dual-classes that can go either way (heal/dps or tank/dps) and you don't untick one of the boxes, you get about half of what this entire 800+page thread complains about (and is how the thread started).

 

I believe MOST people who end up in group content through group finder as the "wrong" spec are simply unaware of the fact that both boxes were checked by default by the game. When I see someone do this in my group I'll tell them they need to uncheck the role they didn't mean to queue as. Most people will use this knowledge going forward and it didn't require calling them a noob or insta-kicking them. But I'm all for kicking people who do it on purpose to get a faster queue (as has been mentioned above, this is unnecessary in tacticals, but I have still seen it sometimes in HMFPs). If they're so impatient for pops, they should role a tank or healer. The gigantic ratio imbalance of dps to heals/tanks is the whole reason we have these terrible tactical FPs in the first place.

 

I just don't understand how the game is unable to recognize that you chose the tank/heal AC or the dps AC and it just can't default you to the one role. That simple act of defaulting some people to two roles has probably ruined so many people's experiences in "bad" groups and possibly the game as a whole.

 

 

*EDIT: When you open groupfinder and uncheck the box, the game will save this going forward; you won't have to keep unchecking every single time. Once you've told the game what to do, it will stick with it until you change it again yourself

Edited June 13, 2016 by aerockyul
Clarification

[nyrkverse]

I just don't understand how the game is unable to recognize that you chose the tank/heal AC or the dps AC and it just can't default you to the one role.

 

maybe because it would be a major inconvenience to people willing and able to cover 2 roles and respec as needed. A tank may prefer to go around questing as dps while waiting for GF to match him/her with a group for instance. True, tanks and healers pops are usually quick but not always so much so that you can't get something else done or started while you wait. One may also want to be dps for tacticals and tank/healer for HMs or Ops for instance and queue for everything together.

 

It's also impossible to respec while queued for a warzone so if you're into the habit to queue for both WZ and GF at the same time you'll be in your preferred PvP role which may not coincide with the role you want to play in PvE.

[merovejec]

true .. but it would be nice if the people either said "I'm in as heals but I'm dps" or "I'm in as tank but I'm dps" so the others know ... that way in tacticals we can do the kolto as needed rather than expecting heals/tanking.

 

I always queue with relevant spec only as a courtesy to the others in the group, it's the polite thing to do ... anything else in tac FP's is rude ... anyone who disagrees with that attitude is a cretin

 

I did a quick tactical for conquest and went in as healer, but after a while seeing there is no dmg done to raid on any boss i swapped to dps and no one noticed, complained or anything.

[aerockyul]

maybe because it would be a major inconvenience to people willing and able to cover 2 roles and respec as needed. A tank may prefer to go around questing as dps while waiting for GF to match him/her with a group for instance. True, tanks and healers pops are usually quick but not always so much so that you can't get something else done or started while you wait. One may also want to be dps for tacticals and tank/healer for HMs or Ops for instance and queue for everything together.

 

It's also impossible to respec while queued for a warzone so if you're into the habit to queue for both WZ and GF at the same time you'll be in your preferred PvP role which may not coincide with the role you want to play in PvE.

 

People who know what they're doing know what they're doing. Wasn't the point of the post. The point was the game unnecessarily griefs people who DON'T know what they're doing by defaulting them to two roles if they have a class that can fork, and you get people with quizzical (at best) or abusive (at worst) responses when one of us who knows what they're doing asks them why they aren't healing when they have a heal icon under their name and such.

[Tsetso]

People who know what they're doing know what they're doing. Wasn't the point of the post. The point was the game unnecessarily griefs people who DON'T know what they're doing by defaulting them to two roles if they have a class that can fork, and you get people with quizzical (at best) or abusive (at worst) responses when one of us who knows what they're doing asks them why they aren't healing when they have a heal icon under their name and such.

 

Defaults are always hard to get right. Sure they could have assumed everyone is dps spec and uncheck the other role but then we would have the other problem - for instance 4 healers all marked as dps. In the end the problem is (partially) solved by measuring and assigning the statistically common values as defaults.

[ZeroPlus]

...

I believe MOST people who end up in group content through group finder as the "wrong" spec are simply unaware of the fact that both boxes were checked by default by the game. When I see someone do this in my group I'll tell them they need to uncheck the role they didn't mean to queue as. Most people will use this knowledge going forward and it didn't require calling them a noob or insta-kicking them. But I'm all for kicking people who do it on purpose to get a faster queue (as has been mentioned above, this is unnecessary in tacticals, but I have still seen it sometimes in HMFPs). If they're so impatient for pops, they should role a tank or healer. The gigantic ratio imbalance of dps to heals/tanks is the whole reason we have these terrible tactical FPs in the first place.

 

I just don't understand how the game is unable to recognize that you chose the tank/heal AC or the dps AC and it just can't default you to the one role. That simple act of defaulting some people to two roles has probably ruined so many people's experiences in "bad" groups and possibly the game as a whole.

...

 

I believe this is true as well.

 

A few day ago I had (for the first time, I might add) a player (lvl25 playing a sorcerer) at the start of a Tactical actually admit that they were not a healer and that they were Lightning and they couldn't understand why the game kept putting them into Tacticals as a healer. A quick explanation later about unselecting Heal in the GF window and thank yous were shared in Party and all was well.

 

It would be nice if players would communicate more instead of just staying silent.

 

As an example of lack of communication leading to an unpleasant experience:

had a level 30 Assassin quit a Tactical halfway through. He didn't say anything, he just left. Out of curiosity, I whispered him asking why. He replied saying that he was the tank and everyone else kept pulling (the rest of the party was all lvl65) and he left in frustration. I apologised (I hadn't even noticed that he was set as a Tank, my bad) and explained that so many times players aren't Tanks but queue as such for Tacticals that most of the time players just ignore the icon (as I had done). Suggested that when he gets into the next Tactical he just say at the start "Hi. Real Tank here. Please let me do the pulling so I can practice.". I was expecting to get blown off but he replied that he would give it a try. He whispered me about an hour later: he had done as I suggested and done 2 Tacticals where others had let him tank and he was happy.

 

Communication is key.

 

The real problem is when from lvl50 onwards they start queuing for HMs, leave both roles checked, are unable to fulfil the Heal/Tank role and refuse to admit that they are doing anything wrong (worse, 9 out of 10 times they will actually have the gall to insult the party for calling them out on what they are doing). I few pages back I posted how I deal with fake Tanks in HMs: I have a zero-tolerance policy in HMs. They are showing no respect for the other players in the group and as such I feel no obligation to cater to their "I'm a special snowflake" mentality.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I believe this is true as well.

 

A few day ago I had (for the first time, I might add) a player (lvl25 playing a sorcerer) at the start of a Tactical actually admit that they were not a healer and that they were Lightning and they couldn't understand why the game kept putting them into Tacticals as a healer. A quick explanation later about unselecting Heal in the GF window and thank yous were shared in Party and all was well.

 

It would be nice if players would communicate more instead of just staying silent.

 

As an example of lack of communication leading to an unpleasant experience:

had a level 30 Assassin quit a Tactical halfway through. He didn't say anything, he just left. Out of curiosity, I whispered him asking why. He replied saying that he was the tank and everyone else kept pulling (the rest of the party was all lvl65) and he left in frustration. I apologised (I hadn't even noticed that he was set as a Tank, my bad) and explained that so many times players aren't Tanks but queue as such for Tacticals that most of the time players just ignore the icon (as I had done). Suggested that when he gets into the next Tactical he just say at the start "Hi. Real Tank here. Please let me do the pulling so I can practice.". I was expecting to get blown off but he replied that he would give it a try. He whispered me about an hour later: he had done as I suggested and done 2 Tacticals where others had let him tank and he was happy.

 

Communication is key.

 

The real problem is when from lvl50 onwards they start queuing for HMs, leave both roles checked, are unable to fulfil the Heal/Tank role and refuse to admit that they are doing anything wrong (worse, 9 out of 10 times they will actually have the gall to insult the party for calling them out on what they are doing). I few pages back I posted how I deal with fake Tanks in HMs: I have a zero-tolerance policy in HMs. They are showing no respect for the other players in the group and as such I feel no obligation to cater to their "I'm a special snowflake" mentality.

 

The problem is that a decent portion of the GF FPs are filled with people that are looking at the game as a single player RPG. Half the time, they have the chat window off, and they admit as much.

 

Sometimes it is as said before, that sometimes in the earlier FPs (i would hope), you run into people that are auto checked. Heck it has happened to me a couple times. I just say sorry, and I bow out of the group so a healer can come in.

 

And then you have the jerks...who just dont care about the group, that think that they should be able to do anything they want to get a faster pop.

[ZanyaCross]

...but the end result doesn't matter. 4 DPS is still as viable as any method.

 

Umm... no.

 

Seriously, just... no.

 

Even if it's possible to do tacticals with 4 DPSs, it will always be easier if you have the trinity. Saying anything else is as viable is just demonstrating a crippling lack of knowledge about the game.

[Jagaimee]

So. There I was. Level 65 sage - formerly DPS, just switched today to try out being a healer. I had a new set of gear, rearranged my quickbars, looked over a guide for healers... I was all set to go!

 

My two flashpoints today consisted of me being nearly matched heal-for-heal by T7-01 (one of the DPS quit at the beginning, so the tank pulled out his high-influence companion), and then me switching back to DPS because another sage healer was doing a far better job than I ever could, and two healers plus one DPS plus one tank made for REEEEEEEEEEEEALLY slow going.

 

... *little mewl of frustration* .-.

 

Well, on the plus side, the last fight in the first flashpoint (Hammer Station) I healed it nearly all the way through... I think Teeseven got blown off a cliff or something. And nobody died! ?? And I realized I really like sage healing. It's fun!

 

And for the weird story, it was the second flashpoint - Korriban Incursion. Me, the sage healer, a level 44 shadow, and a level 23 vanguard tank. The tank was great. The healer was awesome. I switched back to DPS and realized I didn't run out of Force a single time, as I have in the past. Yay!

...a-and the shadow...was...uhhhhhhhhhh...

I don't know what she was doing. Some weird form of roleplaying as Satele Shan? Being exceedingly critical in very bad grammar, yelling at random people, emote-slapping them if they ticked her off [including me one time as I finally had enough and snapped at her], and saying something about coming all the way from China and THIS was how they repay her? ...my response to that one: YES.

 

In the last fight, the tank realized something. "Ohhh, that's why aggro has been so hard for me..."

Me: Uh oh. [i suddenly figured out what was happening.]

Tank: [shadow], you're in tank stance.

Shadow: No, I'm not. I'm in combat stance.

[The group collectively facepalms...or just stares blankly in dumbfounded disbelief, in the case of the healer]

Tank: That's tank stance. Read the tooltip.

Shadow: Fine. I'll switch to "force stance."

[What is that? I don't know the Shadow equivalent stances, only the Assassin ones. But that's the term she used.]

Shadow: It'll make killing this boss a really long fight, though.

Healer: No. It won't. -_-

 

Cue the actual boss fight. Thanks to amazing heals, nobody died. But the shadow yelled at us for being "scared" of the containment droid. We all took the time, when the boss stunned everyone, to explain that the droid stunned us until it died. I admit to a cackle of glee when, the next time the droid appeared, it stunned HER. Predictably, she ranted at us for WHY DID YOU LET THE DROID STUN ME, and we all explained once again that it's unavoidable. (I fought the urge to add "Deal with it, drama queen.")

 

Throughout the fight, I occasionally targeted her to try and figure out what spec she was in. She had switched to "force technique" (wait, is that the actual name of the stance?)...and absolutely no buffs came up. At all. o_o I don't think she used anything other than Strike and whatever the Republic equivalent of Maul is. Sadly, I didn't get a chance to ask her what spec, if any, she was in.

 

We finished the fight, completed the cutscene, praised the tank for being an amazingly good tank despite being such a low level, and got the heck out of there as quickly as possible. I still snarked, though.

Me: Have a great evening, everyone! Even you, Ms. grumpy Jedi.

Her: [just before the group disbanded] I'm not grumpy. I have high standards.

...I didn't know whether to laugh or cry as I felt my brain implode...

Edited June 18, 2016 by Jagaimee

[BobFredJohn]

Had an interesting run of legacy of rakata HM.

 

I was tanking with my jugg, there was a sin dps, mara and sorc healer. We started clearing through to the first boss then suddenly the healer dies to a pull which is hard to describe which one because its such a joke that most people forget it. Its the one before the pull by the waterfall, consisting of 4 dogs and 2 or 3 blokes. I res the healer and we continue.

 

Get to the ambush with one of the dps lagging behind for whatever reason, skipping most of the enemies on the way. Its me, the healer and the sin dps waiting by the ambush point for the mara. The healer then decides to charge in and pulls the ambush, me and sin join in and get to work. The mara comes running up from behind with all the enemies we skipped on his tail, I go down, then healer and its a wipe.

 

Res and run back, ambush doesn't trigger for some reason and we get to boss. I assume (because nobody said anything and these missions have been around for donkeys years) that people know the fights so I don't bother checking and just pull. Goes fine until it becomes apparent the healer doesn't know the cleanse mechanic:

sin: "cleanse"

healer: "I cant"

healer: "its greyed out"

healer: "it must be bugged"

healer: "my cleanse wont work"

by now the sin is dead I am near death with DCD's on CD, healer is near death and mara is in fire and cant move. We wipe, res and run back.

healer: "expunge is bugged"

I decide to check the healers achievements, turns out he has never done rakata before

me: "for future reference, I would appreciate if people mention they are new before we pull, it could save us a repair bill"

healer: "I'm not new"

me: "I just checked your achievements"

healer: "I will have to adjust my bars see if that works, anyway I can look up the mechanics on google"

me: "or you could just say your new and we can explain the mechanics"

healer: "explain then"

 

I explain the cleanse, theres not really much else to know for that fight and pull. We beat it but I am not impressed by the healer. Everybody was floating around the 20% mark most of the fight, now I am not much of a healer but even I can keep people topped off in that fight.

 

Anyway we carry on to the boxes and during a pull there the healer dies. I spin the camera around and see that the jedi that had been cc'd by the sin (so I ignored it completely) had been hit by the mara, who then didn't bother maintaining aggro on it so it went for the healer. We wipe. We get to the pull at the top of the stairs, sin cc's the jedi and I pull. I use my DCD's and what-not but end up dead, I then keep a careful watch on the healer.

 

Now I don't know much about sorc healing but I do know that the aoe HoT is instant cast with the correct buff. This healer is hard casting it every time. Theres long intervals of doing nothing and using the channelled heal once in a while. Theres also the fact that after I died and the enemies turned on the rest of the group he got 2-shot.

 

I decided to inspect his gear and it turned out he was in 172 blues in a HM 65 fp. I then noticed the mara had only a couple k more hp than the healer so out of interest checked them. They had 172/178 blues. I didn't bother checking the sin because when a player has 81k hp on a dps, which comes from 220/224 gear, which is only accessable in ops I reckon hes a safe bet, and he hasn't made any mistakes at all.

 

We get to the second boss and I give a brief "stack up for adds" before pulling. We kill the adds with ease, damage the boss abit, second round of adds goes easily too, boss again, third round of adds is as follows:

 

I do aoe taunt, ageis assault, crushing blow -> healer dies. Considering all the enemies are on me due to the taunt I reckon he got caught by the bosses aoe, which doesn't hit very hard anyway, so for him to die instantly from it is a bad sign. Anyway the sin stealth resses the healer and we complete.

 

We give the bonus boss a few goes but there is no way the healer can cheese the mechanics by healing through so we agree on a tactic of just tank and spank then run out of the room and around the corner during aoe thing, then deal with adds once back in the room. Sadly the healer and mara both don't quite understand the concept of standing such that the knockback will throw you into a wall rather than out the room, so we keep having to deal with adds. The healer never even tries to pay attention to the aoe mechanic and the mara doesn't survive long enough to get to cover. We give up after 4 tries.

 

Get to final boss which is going quite well until the healer stops healing for some reason. I get killed by arkous, who then kills the healer with 2 ticks of his force lightning and its a wipe. We go again a second time and all goes well.

 

I was considering mentioning something about gearing and group play (the whole let people know your new thing) to the sorc but whilst I am still writing it out the sorc says "good riddance to that jerk of a tank, thinking he can tell me how to play." So I delete my advice I was writing and thank the sin by name for the effort he put in to which he replies "its nice to carry some new guys from time to time, keeps us on our toes right?"

to which I say: "yeah, but its even nicer if those new guys learn whilst we do it."

[Lodinn]

Umm... no.

 

Seriously, just... no.

 

Even if it's possible to do tacticals with 4 DPSs, it will always be easier if you have the trinity. Saying anything else is as viable is just demonstrating a crippling lack of knowledge about the game.

I can't see how proper trinity is better than someone taking tanking duties on, say, dps jugg.

Healer makes it way faster tho.

[ZanyaCross]

Had a run in Red Reaper HM the other night. Right off the bat the healer says he accidentally queue'd as healer, when he's DPS, but he can off-heal. Already my finger is hovering over the kick button, but it seems he and the tank are friends and I'd rather not wait for a new one of both. I inspect the other dps and they are in mostly 178 or less gear, and the other two are only marginally better. I'm in augmented 208 pvp gear.

 

I have a bad feeling about this, but the "healer" assured me the tank is really good. Two of them have just been gone for a few months. All three of them are totally clowning around at every opportunity.

 

I sigh and we keep going, and wipe two battles in. We regroup and decide to do this "old school", where we mark our targets and actually use our CCs. I seriously forgot I could even slice droids it's been so long. It's a bit slow, but we're making steady progress. After awhile, I realize we're almost to the boss and haven't wiped again. The tank, despite inexplicably going afk every other fight, is somehow totally holding aggro and staying alive despite the merc's off-heals and my pithy little mara-heals.

 

Get to the boss, and this is my (and I think everyone's) first time doing this FP in HM, so we weren't ready for these adds that basically force-glue your feet to the floor. This is not a good situation for a melee class.

 

We wipe, wait for the tank to wake up again, and try again, this time remembering we actually have healing items, something else I'd forgotten about. It's close, but boss goes down when I start murder-killing the adds and the tank lures the boss into reach of the ones still stuck.

 

Yeah, I know, I can't believe it either and I was there. Those undergeared goofballs were crazy-good and for the first time in months I felt like I was challenged as a player outside an op.

[BobFredJohn]

Just want to rant about a pet peeve of mine. Long explainations.

 

Did a tactical cad run with my jugg and I reckoned 1 of the guys was completely new. He was a level 15 sorc, spammed force storm - even on single enemy fights, didn't have sprint on, was set as healer but never healed, never used his out of combat heal (would just spam dark heal on himself after fights) and was in the gear you get from doing story missions on korriban.

 

As such when we got to first boss I asked "all know it" and this guy, all credit to him, said no.

me: "when droid starts moving drag him here" (jump up and down where first prison thing appears) "then just kill the guy".

Operative dps: "after some time the boss will start a 3 second cast which cannot be interrupted"

op: "this will cause the droid to start moving and try to arrest someone"

op: "the arrest is basically a long stun + weak dot"

op: "there will be red text on the screen to say who the droid is chasing but it can change target randomly so its best we all stand at this spot" *places marker on the floor at the spot you stand to drag droid through prison*

op: "the droid will eventually break out of prison and try to arrest someone else, then it needs to be taken here" *marks second prison spot*

 

I then pull, we kill it with ease and move on but I quickly mention to the sorc "if you ever do HM flashpoints ask for mechanics again because the way we do sm ones doesn't always work for HM." (I always do that, don't want someone running into HM, killing the guy, enraging the droid then saying "that's what I was told to do.")

 

Second boss of mannan, someone says they don't know it.

me: "stay away from water, stack up for adds because mechanics mean I cant afford to chase adds around the room, shield probe (they were a sniper) during lightning."

healer: "the boss will throw puddles down on whoever he is attacking. He then starts a cast which causes the puddles to grow and then force storm over the whole room. At this point anybody still inside the water will die so its important to move away when he does that. The tank should try to keep the puddles at just one end of the room" (I was the tank and I had already mentioned mechanics prevent me running around the room) "after force storm two adds appear who need to be killed quickly"

me: "dragged to the tank quickly, then killed"

healer: "doesn't matter where the adds are, just kill them" (I don't bother arguing the point, stacking for adds is easier for the whole group, but if hes happy having the dps face tank 1 add while I use my one and only ranged aggro ability (taunt) to grab just 1 add then fine). "it basically just goes on like that"

me: "shall we go"

healer: "quick recap, when he does flow move away from the puddles, in some cases a speed boost like your cover roll can help because of how far the puddles grow. When adds appear kill them quick because they do a lot of damage and whoever has aggro try to stay reasonably close to the boss to stop him throwing puddles everywhere"

I found it funny he is now saying "kill adds quick because they do lots of damage" yet disagrees with me that dragging them to the tank is a good idea.

 

^^on a side note another rant about tanking and adds: For anyone who has never played a tank. If you have an add beating you up and hes winning, don't start running around like a headless chicken. Run directly towards your tank because all tanks aggro generators are melee abilities. He cant rip that add off you if your kiting away from him.

 

mando raiders, healer says hes new.

first boss: me: "kill dogs first and keep them away from the bloke, though that's mostly my job anyway"

mara: "The boss can make the dogs enrage if he is too close so <my name> take the boss away to a corner somewhere. He will aggro dump you so each time he freezes you taunt as soon as it wears off"

I interrupt him by linking my achievement for beating him 25 times on HM and write "dw mate I know about the tanking mechanics"

He tells me its important the healer knows whats going on and what to do. I argue back that this fight (this whole fp) has no significant healer mechanics, his job will be the same as it is during trash: keep everybody alive which he had been doing with no issues up till now.

mara carries on with a long winded explanation of the best places to position the boss so the healer can retain los with the tank, what the dogs look like when enraged so the healer will know when he might need to kite around, and he tries to carry on but by now 7 minutes has passed and I am bored so I pull, the other dps opens fire, healer starts healing and mara writes "are you trying to cause a wipe you dumb noob?" before joining in and beating it easily.

 

second boss: basically an argument starts between mara when he move to LOS position and writes "all here", when me and the merc dps don't go there he writes "all here", then "ALL HERE" then "LOS PULL" then tries to vote kick me reason "doesn't know mechanics" which fails. Then he writes "you all need to stand here to los pull otherwise this boss is really difficult."

 

I pull without doing los and the healer steps out from behind los to heal me. Mara stays back and writes "well I'm not getting involved in your wipe" but joins in after the 3 of us have killed the knight and consular and have the last two down to 50% each.

 

final boss:

me: "kill turrets first"

mara: "the boss will keep moving around and when he goes to the corners two turrets will pop up. If you damage the boss too much he will move to another corner and more turrets will come up. Its best to kill the turrets at each corner before attacking the boss. The boss will shoot missiles at people which is a red circle at their feet, move out of these. There are holes that you can fall down and die between the square around the outside and the path down the middle so be careful when he goes from the third set of turrets to his final spot that you don't fall down there" (I have never seen that happen btw) "all clear"

me: "no, theres not nearly enough detail in there" then I pull, we kill it and finish up, I end up on the maras ignore.

[MysteryJoker]

Umm... no.

 

Seriously, just... no.

 

Even if it's possible to do tacticals with 4 DPSs, it will always be easier if you have the trinity. Saying anything else is as viable is just demonstrating a crippling lack of knowledge about the game.

 

This is probably the dumbest thing I've heard. I'm sorry but the only people that say this, would be the ones that wipe on story mode ops. 4 DPS can easily go through tacticals. It isn't a problem. Your average player? Yeah, you might have a point because most players are just god awful (group finder). The only crippling knowledge I see here is the inability to use cc when needed as a 4 man dps.

[ZanyaCross]

4 DPS can easily go through tacticals.

 

But 2 DPSs, with a tank and healer will go through much easier.

 

Look, I've seen two maras without comps run through "Lost Island" and they made it looks easy. That doesn't mean that if they had a tank and healer it wouldn't have been even easier.

 

Seriously, you don't get to call out anyone if you can't even understand the post of the person your criticizing.

[Jagaimee]

This is probably the dumbest thing I've heard. I'm sorry but the only people that say this, would be the ones that wipe on story mode ops. 4 DPS can easily go through tacticals. It isn't a problem. Your average player? Yeah, you might have a point because most players are just god awful (group finder). The only crippling knowledge I see here is the inability to use cc when needed as a 4 man dps.

 

On some tacticals, four DPS is very easy. On others - Manaan, for one - it's a problem. Doable, certainly, but problematic.

 

I think what ZanyaCross was trying to say - what you might've misunderstood - was that a perfect trinity is simply easier (as they said in the post right before this one). Not "you MUST have a perfect trinity or else you'll die every time you try to complete a tactical with four DPS." Just that it's easier. Two DPS providing the punches; a tank to hold the enemies' attention; and a healer to make sure everyone stays alive. As opposed to four DPS who try to kill things before the things kill them. That's all.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Jagaimee

[Hazyphoenix]

Had an interesting run of legacy of rakata HM.

 

I was tanking with my jugg, there was a sin dps, mara and sorc healer. We started clearing through to the first boss then suddenly the healer dies to a pull which is hard to describe which one because its such a joke that most people forget it. Its the one before the pull by the waterfall, consisting of 4 dogs and 2 or 3 blokes. I res the healer and we continue.

 

Get to the ambush with one of the dps lagging behind for whatever reason, skipping most of the enemies on the way. Its me, the healer and the sin dps waiting by the ambush point for the mara. The healer then decides to charge in and pulls the ambush, me and sin join in and get to work. The mara comes running up from behind with all the enemies we skipped on his tail, I go down, then healer and its a wipe.

 

Res and run back, ambush doesn't trigger for some reason and we get to boss. I assume (because nobody said anything and these missions have been around for donkeys years) that people know the fights so I don't bother checking and just pull. Goes fine until it becomes apparent the healer doesn't know the cleanse mechanic:

sin: "cleanse"

healer: "I cant"

healer: "its greyed out"

healer: "it must be bugged"

healer: "my cleanse wont work"

by now the sin is dead I am near death with DCD's on CD, healer is near death and mara is in fire and cant move. We wipe, res and run back.

healer: "expunge is bugged"

I decide to check the healers achievements, turns out he has never done rakata before

me: "for future reference, I would appreciate if people mention they are new before we pull, it could save us a repair bill"

healer: "I'm not new"

me: "I just checked your achievements"

healer: "I will have to adjust my bars see if that works, anyway I can look up the mechanics on google"

me: "or you could just say your new and we can explain the mechanics"

healer: "explain then"

 

I explain the cleanse, theres not really much else to know for that fight and pull. We beat it but I am not impressed by the healer. Everybody was floating around the 20% mark most of the fight, now I am not much of a healer but even I can keep people topped off in that fight.

 

Anyway we carry on to the boxes and during a pull there the healer dies. I spin the camera around and see that the jedi that had been cc'd by the sin (so I ignored it completely) had been hit by the mara, who then didn't bother maintaining aggro on it so it went for the healer. We wipe. We get to the pull at the top of the stairs, sin cc's the jedi and I pull. I use my DCD's and what-not but end up dead, I then keep a careful watch on the healer.

 

Now I don't know much about sorc healing but I do know that the aoe HoT is instant cast with the correct buff. This healer is hard casting it every time. Theres long intervals of doing nothing and using the channelled heal once in a while. Theres also the fact that after I died and the enemies turned on the rest of the group he got 2-shot.

 

I decided to inspect his gear and it turned out he was in 172 blues in a HM 65 fp. I then noticed the mara had only a couple k more hp than the healer so out of interest checked them. They had 172/178 blues. I didn't bother checking the sin because when a player has 81k hp on a dps, which comes from 220/224 gear, which is only accessable in ops I reckon hes a safe bet, and he hasn't made any mistakes at all.

 

We get to the second boss and I give a brief "stack up for adds" before pulling. We kill the adds with ease, damage the boss abit, second round of adds goes easily too, boss again, third round of adds is as follows:

 

I do aoe taunt, ageis assault, crushing blow -> healer dies. Considering all the enemies are on me due to the taunt I reckon he got caught by the bosses aoe, which doesn't hit very hard anyway, so for him to die instantly from it is a bad sign. Anyway the sin stealth resses the healer and we complete.

 

We give the bonus boss a few goes but there is no way the healer can cheese the mechanics by healing through so we agree on a tactic of just tank and spank then run out of the room and around the corner during aoe thing, then deal with adds once back in the room. Sadly the healer and mara both don't quite understand the concept of standing such that the knockback will throw you into a wall rather than out the room, so we keep having to deal with adds. The healer never even tries to pay attention to the aoe mechanic and the mara doesn't survive long enough to get to cover. We give up after 4 tries.

 

Get to final boss which is going quite well until the healer stops healing for some reason. I get killed by arkous, who then kills the healer with 2 ticks of his force lightning and its a wipe. We go again a second time and all goes well.

 

I was considering mentioning something about gearing and group play (the whole let people know your new thing) to the sorc but whilst I am still writing it out the sorc says "good riddance to that jerk of a tank, thinking he can tell me how to play." So I delete my advice I was writing and thank the sin by name for the effort he put in to which he replies "its nice to carry some new guys from time to time, keeps us on our toes right?"

to which I say: "yeah, but its even nicer if those new guys learn whilst we do it."

 

 

Thats just messed up

If new players ignore the advice the experienced player is trying to give them .... hmmmm reminds me alot of leauge i wonder why ..... xP

[Lodinn]

Thats just messed up

If new players ignore the advice the experienced player is trying to give them .... hmmmm reminds me alot of leauge i wonder why ..... xP

Except in league you'd have to be in Master I for your advice to be nearly 100% true. Otherwise it's so much of a personal preference and game understanding that advising someone on something is plain useless in 99% of all cases as they may simply have different opinion about this, and if everyone in your team shared it it might as well work. The rest 1% is people just doing it wrong.

 

Those who come from MOBAs where you don't have rotations and certain tactics and rather try to fit into everchanging environment quite often understandably fail in SWTOR-alike MMO PvE.

Community becoming worse in that regard is certainly an issue, however.

[Dogberto]

I had an odd one today, my merc healer is currently level 64, so I decided to do a flashpoint to get that last level rather than do heroics or fallen empire (in hindsight I should've done heroics ). I queue up and get an instant pop of a group in progress. The flashpoint is Battle of Ilum, its a pretty straightforward flashpoint, though I personally haven't run it in over a year. I'm the only player not 65 in the flashpoint, and they all appear to be fairly geared. I get there and they're right at the beginning, haven't even cleared any trash yet, so I assumed the healer just had to go.. We start going, and I find out that the tank does not even attack first in ANY of the pulls, its always the very squishy Jugg who pulls, usually just by running into an enemy and then running away. That was infuriating as it was, because I ended up taking most of the agro, as an extremely undergeared healer. I had a legacy set but it was level 65, so I had to get that level in order to use it. We got to the Alien Commander's boss, and failed on the first try because both of them attacked me, while all 3 dps/tank characters were unable to kill either of them. The second time we were closer, they killed one of them, but immediately after the second hit enrage and preceded to one-shot all of us. I didn't even know that boss could enrage (if its a mechanic, where if one dies the other enrages, please let me know.) I have it another try, we failed worse than the second time, again failing to kill one. I just ditched it after that, and did the heroics to get my level.

[BobFredJohn]

Levelling my mara by running heroics while queuing for tfp's. I get a pop and it turns out to be kdy with my 59 mara, a 44 mara, 41 sniper and 44 sorc dps.

 

As usual with kdy all the enemies are a joke so theres no risk of any deaths anywhere, or so I thought. First scenario I realise the sorcs likes his force storm and the other three seem to have silently decided I should pull, fine by me its not like these enemies are at all difficult. But then I get to a pull and the enemies take so long to die I actually need to pop a DCD just to survive. Not a good sign.

 

We carry on and get to the elite def. I have aggro as I had expected what with me being the highest level and thereby having the most efficient rotation. However I end up at half health with the elite def still above 70%. This doesn't look good, I gradually work my way through my DCD's with them all running out while the boss is still at 40%. I end up down at 20% and force camo.

 

I still have aggro even after I aggro dump so I end up Losing the boss around some items until the other 3 kill it. I heal up and wait for one of those 3 to start the next pull, its one of the larger pulls. They all stand there waiting for me so I mention I wont pull this one as all my DCD's are on CD. All 3 of them just stand there so I cheese it abit: I leap in and tunnel-vision a standard so the sorc, who loves his force storm, grabs all the aggro.

 

Pretty much the same in second scenario, then get to the boss which is khoris. Starts off well until I use a poorly timed obliterate causing me to get caught by a couple of blue circles and killed. It seems people cannot res and return anymore so I lie there watching the other 3:

mara: spam basic, ravage on CD, doesn't have a form on and I cant see any buffs of any sort so unsure what their discipline was.

sorc: spam force storm until out of force then run around doing nothing (not even basic) until able to do force lightning. He pops death field (or whatever its called, the purple explosion thing) afew times and I mention to him his spec is a dot based one. He then proceeds to never use death field again and just run around doing force lightning on CD.

sniper: runs back and forwards between koltos spamming them and never attacks the boss at all.

 

Now I understand why I still had aggro on enemies even after dumping. As you can imagine with the sniper spamming the heals and the other 2 having the worst concept of their disciplines (by the maras COMPLETE lack of any procs at all I wonder if they actually selected a discipline) it takes them ages to damage the boss and they never die due to spammed kolto's. I sit there watching this shambles until they eventually die (some lucky blue circle placements and poor conal positioning by the mara who has aggro).

 

We res and run back and do the fight again, as I quit group all 3 of them say "good group, shall we do another one?"

 

no, just...no.

Edited June 23, 2016 by BobFredJohn

[SteveTheCynic]

I had an odd one today, my merc healer is currently level 64, so I decided to do a flashpoint to get that last level rather than do heroics or fallen empire (in hindsight I should've done heroics ). I queue up and get an instant pop of a group in progress. The flashpoint is Battle of Ilum, its a pretty straightforward flashpoint, though I personally haven't run it in over a year. I'm the only player not 65 in the flashpoint, and they all appear to be fairly geared. I get there and they're right at the beginning, haven't even cleared any trash yet, so I assumed the healer just had to go.. We start going, and I find out that the tank does not even attack first in ANY of the pulls, its always the very squishy Jugg who pulls, usually just by running into an enemy and then running away. That was infuriating as it was, because I ended up taking most of the agro, as an extremely undergeared healer. I had a legacy set but it was level 65, so I had to get that level in order to use it. We got to the Alien Commander's boss, and failed on the first try because both of them attacked me, while all 3 dps/tank characters were unable to kill either of them. The second time we were closer, they killed one of them, but immediately after the second hit enrage and preceded to one-shot all of us. I didn't even know that boss could enrage (if its a mechanic, where if one dies the other enrages, please let me know.) I have it another try, we failed worse than the second time, again failing to kill one. I just ditched it after that, and did the heroics to get my level.

It's a very common mechanic in flashpoints that you face two bosses and one enrages if you kill the other. It's also a mechanic in one of the Eternal Championship fights, although that one can be avoided by following the correct mechanics for killing the bosses - exploit the "stunned regen" mechanic of one boss, and kill the other while the first is stunned to get a free kill of the stunned one. My recollection of the Alien Commanders is that this is the gunner and the sithy type, and that one got the better of me back before 4.0 came out when I *carelessly* went into story mode with just me and Elara. It was my fault, and I (and Elara) paid the price.

[BobFredJohn]

Couple of stories where I am the weird one.

 

I log onto my mando who had been gathering dust for months and respec it to gunnery from healer spec. I start running heroics and queue on gf. End up queued as healer and get a pop for czerka labs tactical, I mention I am not actually healer but luckily nobody minds and we do the mission without much issue (a long period of afk's and dc's occurs near the end but I'm in no rush.

 

I then queue again, this time with my role set to dps and get a tactical atheiss with 2 other dps (guardian and slinger) and a sage healer. The sage healer stops healing at some point between first and second boss. After killing second and going through the tunnels with champion sith the slinger points out the sage has stopped healing. I say "not to worry I have off-heals." We carry on through the sith with me throwing out some heals now and then and me, guardian and slinger popping DCD's as appropriate, the sage seems to just run around spamming the 1.5s cast ability. At least its better than nothing.

 

We then start final boss and I get the dot on me, after which I realise I had left cleanse off my bars when I rearranged them after changing specs. Luckily the guardian gets the flame on the first round so I pop cleanse on my bars while the boss is absent, then apologise at the end for cleanse issues. I do get a nice reply from the slinger though "lol dps apologising for missing 1 cleanse while we have a healer in the group who doesn't heal, the irony."

___________________________________________

 

A couple of rants....

 

lots of runs of atheiss today, must be on the conquest list or something.

 

Is there a new fad for guardian dps to use soresu form then tell me I'm noob when I ask them if they are tanking or dpsing, then telling me to shut up when I tell them soresu form reduces damage output and using correct form for spec helps procs and rotation.

 

And of all 6 runs of atheiss I have had today there has been a healer in all but 1 groups. So why oh why oh why is it always down to my mando dps to do the damn cleanses?

Edited June 24, 2016 by BobFredJohn