Why is everyone so "helpful"?

[Fuse_AQM]

At least twice a day I have to tell someone, "Hey, please stop stealing my kills. I don't need help. Thanks." Should be obvious since I'm over-levelled for my current story progress and rarely drop below 80% HP, but I still ask nicely. No one has apologized, and almost half of them have actually mouthed off with some line about how insignificant the kills are!

 

I'm pretty new to the game, so for the first few planets I though, "Hey, they're noobs, just ask them nicely to stop." Now I'm on Quesh and it still happens just as often. Every few hours, without fail. What's going on? Why are players in this game so "helpful"? Why do they get so mad when I ask nicely, using my good words, for them to stop?

 

I would say not stealing kills is one of the most basic rules of playing an MMORPG, but apparently not so here? These are my top 5 MMORPG rules. Let me know which others this community ignores so I won't be disappointed. So far number three is the only one I've actually seen people following in TOR.

 

1) Don't steal kills.

2) Don't steal loot or loot without all group members present (which is stealing).

3) Don't pull if you're not the tank.

4) Don't loot during combat.

5) Don't start a group you can't finish.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Fuse_AQM

[BenjaminminU]

I agree with this post, however occasionally i help other players if they've started fighting a pack thats in my way, usually to speed things up, like once i was travelling through a cave as a bounty hunter, and there was a jedi there as well. We couldn't group since opposite factions, so i helped him with combat and he helped me, we got through the cave much quicker.

[Fuse_AQM]

I agree with this post, however occasionally i help other players if they've started fighting a pack thats in my way, usually to speed things up, like once i was travelling through a cave as a bounty hunter, and there was a jedi there as well. We couldn't group since opposite factions, so i helped him with combat and he helped me, we got through the cave much quicker.

 

I had one person basically say this when I asked them to stop. No offense, but I don't get it. Why not just walk past them? Mobs won't aggro you for walking past once they're in combat.

 

Obviously I'm still new to the game, so if there's a valid reason for any of this behavior I'd love to know. Right now there are literally 8 people on Quesh, and one of them followed me for about two minutes attacking my mobs until I asked them to stop. What are the odds?

Edited April 21, 2013 by Fuse_AQM

[chimex]

I admit, I get really frustrated at that. Especially if I'm fighting a silver and some chump just jumps in and starts trying to kill it. I mean, they don't even get any exp from it. What do they hope to achieve? My life is 70% full (or, only 30% down) and the enemy is dead in about 3 more hits. Why do you jump in?

 

I don't whisper them to stop, but after a few /frown at them, they begin to go away

Edited April 21, 2013 by chimex

[JackATTache]

I had one person basically say this when I asked them to stop. No offense, but I don't get it. Why not just walk past them? Mobs won't aggro you for walking past once they're in combat.

 

Obviously I'm still new to the game, so if there's a valid reason for any of this behavior I'd love to know. Right now there are literally 8 people on Quesh, and one of them followed me for about two minutes attacking my mobs until I asked them to stop. What are the odds?

 

I can see where your coming from but they are not stealing your mobs if you struck first. Sometimes people wanna help and I know the feeling of wanting to be the hero of your story the one who killed it off but if you are worried on XP sense as long as you are the one attacking the groups first all they are doing is helping them die faster, they get locked out of receiving any XP or loot, you get it all.

[OddballEasyEight]

Since i havent had this done to me, i wouldnt know, but does this negate your xp from the kill?

I thought the instigator of the fight was the one that got the xp and loot no matter if someone else jumps in the fight.

 

Unless that other person is vastly higher in level i mean...

[Fuse_AQM]

I can see where your coming from but they are not stealing your mobs if you struck first.

 

Yes, they are. Unless I have done at least 50% damage they can and do steal the kills. I know because when it says "Kill 20 fleepflorps 15/20" and I engage a group of 5 the mission should finish, but it doesn't because some jerk jumped in to the fight and stole some of the kills. You can also tell by the fact that you don't get experience when they die.

 

I wouldn't use the term "kill stealing" if they weren't stealing the kill credit.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Fuse_AQM

[KariTalRathe]

This is an RPG and from that perspective there is no such thing as kill-stealing. To ignore dangerous enemies in front of you just because their attention is elsewhere is akin to ignoring a person being mugged in broad daylight. If you keep this in mind, then perhaps you will be less bothered when someone comes to your aid in future.

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

Yes, they are. Unless I have done at least 50% damage they can and do steal the kills.

 

No they aren't. If you have done any damage to them then you get credited with the kill. If you haven't done any damage then they get the kill.

[Fuse_AQM]

No they aren't. If you have done any damage to them then you get credited with the kill. If you haven't done any damage then they get the kill.

 

Ok, well I apologize for that part of the post then. I read that it was 50% when I searched the forums. Still pretty sure I've not gotten credit for kills I had hit at least once, but I guess I was mistaken.

 

Either way, if I'm fighting a group of mobs but haven't actually hit them all yet it's still kill stealing and it's still considered rude in any other MMORPG I've played in the past 20 years. Heck, it's rude even if I do get credit.

 

This thread seems to mostly reinforce my experience. Players here would rather argue ways to justify their actions than accept that they are just plain rude by most MMO's standards.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Fuse_AQM

[AndasKastor]

Yes, they are. Unless I have done at least 50% damage they can and do steal the kills. I know because when it says "Kill 20 fleepflorps 15/20" and I engage a group of 5 the mission should finish, but it doesn't because some jerk jumped in to the fight and stole some of the kills. You can also tell by the fact that you don't get experience when they die.

 

I wouldn't use the term "kill stealing" if they weren't stealing the kill credit.

 

You do have to damage a mob before it becomes yours. If they are attacking you and you haven't done at least one point to them then they are still open.

 

I usually will do a quick AoE or rapidly ding each critter if I have any 'helpers' in the area.

[Thaed]

Yes, they are. Unless I have done at least 50% damage they can and do steal the kills. I know because when it says "Kill 20 fleepflorps 15/20" and I engage a group of 5 the mission should finish, but it doesn't because some jerk jumped in to the fight and stole some of the kills. You can also tell by the fact that you don't get experience when they die.

 

I wouldn't use the term "kill stealing" if they weren't stealing the kill credit.

 

I think you'll find that you're not hitting all of the mobs in a group. If you get the first hit on a mob, it's yours. You will get the credit for the kill, even if you only did 1% of the damage.

 

If you're not, try throwing down some AoE to make sure all of the mobs in a group are tagged to you. Yes, you're probably right in asking them to stop if there stealing mobs in a group that you haven't hit yet, but they can't 'steal' mobs from you in the sense that you seem to describe in your OP.

[Fuse_AQM]

I think you'll find that you're not hitting all of the mobs in a group. If you get the first hit on a mob, it's yours. You will get the credit for the kill, even if you only did 1% of the damage.

 

If you're not, try throwing down some AoE to make sure all of the mobs in a group are tagged to you. Yes, you're probably right in asking them to stop if there stealing mobs in a group that you haven't hit yet, but they can't 'steal' mobs from you in the sense that you seem to describe in your OP.

 

Yes, I've apologized for being misinformed already, but how is a player following me around attacking the groups I'm attacking not stealing? I don't have a pull ability, so on some groups I would have to walk from mob to mob at that nice slow in-combat pace to hit them each once before actually starting to fight. That's just ridiculous.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Fuse_AQM

[Tmanarl]

Yes, they are. Unless I have done at least 50% damage they can and do steal the kills. I know because when it says "Kill 20 fleepflorps 15/20" and I engage a group of 5 the mission should finish, but it doesn't because some jerk jumped in to the fight and stole some of the kills. You can also tell by the fact that you don't get experience when they die.

 

I wouldn't use the term "kill stealing" if they weren't stealing the kill credit.

 

In the time it took you to come to the forums and write a thread that obviously has no solution, you could have easily gone on to find 5 additional fleepflorps to finish your quest.

[Fuse_AQM]

Let me take a breath and approach this a different way. I admit I'm frustrated because it just happened again and I apologize for letting it get in my posts.

 

Let's say they aren't kill stealing. Let's say they aren't getting anything out of it but the pleasure of helping. Why take issue with it when I ask nicely to stop?

I just have seen so many people do it, and had enough talk back when I said, "Please stop", that I feel like I'm the one missing something.

 

In the time it took you to come to the forums and write a thread that obviously has no solution, you could have easily gone on to find 5 additional fleepflorps to finish your quest.

 

I thought the RP reply would be "least constructive in the thread", but you win.

As I said, in most MMOs this is considered rude and doesn't happen nearly as often. I'm new to TOR and was honestly wondering if the players in TOR felt differently since it seems to happen with a great deal of regularity, and it appears that they do. Now I'm trying to understand why. Again, I apologize for any hostility in my posts, I just let my frustration bleed through.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Fuse_AQM

[Lung_Tien_Lien]

Either way, if I'm fighting a group of mobs but haven't actually hit them all yet it's still kill stealing and it's still considered rude in any other MMORPG I've played in the past 20 years. Heck, it's rude even if I do get credit.

 

This thread seems to mostly reinforce my experience. Players here would rather argue ways to justify their actions than accept that they are just plain rude by most MMO's standards.

 

Why is it rude if you get the credit? Maybe they really were just trying to help. Sometimes I stick around for minute to watch a fight to make sure the person fighting will be all right.

 

I don't know which server you play on, but this almost never happens to me. People running in to steal your objective, yes, of course. Especially during dailies, but otherwise? I've had people run in and help me when I was clearly in over my head, but that's it.

 

I see nobody arguing to justify their actions, only people trying to explain why others might do what you've described. And this isn't 'most other MMOs', this is SWTOR. You might argue it's still rude (in your opinion), but what is and isn't considered rude in other MMOs is irrelevant.

 

Otherwise: switch instances if things become too crowded for your liking. Edit: Especially if someone's actually following your around to attack the same mobs you are. Never seen that happen, but that's obviously not helping. They're also obviously doing it to annoy you, so asking them to stop won't do anything.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Lung_Tien_Lien

[SithKoriandr]

Here, I'll help you out...

 

Open World.

 

If you can't handle Open World, you probably need to find a different game. Now I know, I'll just skip past a person and go to the next group, because there are players like you who think this is NOT an Open World MMO, and thusly, I respectful of that. But it is an Open World MMO.

 

Though question, what do you do when you and another player attack a group of enemies at the same time. Being Open World, Ive had this happen quite a few times.

[Fuse_AQM]

Why is it rude if you get the credit? Maybe they really were just trying to help. Sometimes I stick around for minute to watch a fight to make sure the person fighting will be all right.

 

I don't know which server you play on, but this almost never happens to me. People running in to steal your objective, yes, of course. Especially during dailies, but otherwise? I've had people run in and help me when I was clearly in over my head, but that's it.

 

I see nobody arguing to justify their actions, only people trying to explain why others might do what you've described. And this isn't 'most other MMOs', this is SWTOR. You might argue it's still rude (in your opinion), but what is and isn't considered rude in other MMOs is irrelevant.

 

Otherwise: switch instances if things become too crowded for your liking. Edit: Especially if someone's actually following your around to attack the same mobs you are. Never seen that happen, but that's obviously not helping. They're also obviously doing it to annoy you, so asking them to stop won't do anything.

 

Well I feel it's rude because if that person wanted to group you could ask them. If they want to solo just let them solo. Watching to make sure someone is ok is obviously fine, but following a person around and jumping in to their fights? Maybe they just want to be left alone at the moment. If they ask you nicely to stop, why not just stop?

 

I wouldn't say what is considered rude in other MMOs is irrelevant. Obviously not directly applicable, which is why I made this thread asking, but you shouldn't just ignore rules that have developed over decades and many, many MMOs just because you start a new game.

 

Now for the noob question: How do I switch instances? I'd looked for that functionality before and couldn't find it. I read it was on the map, but if it's there I must be blind (or in a zone that doesn't support it).

 

Here, I'll help you out...

 

Open World.

 

If you can't handle Open World, you probably need to find a different game. Now I know, I'll just skip past a person and go to the next group, because there are players like you who think this is NOT an Open World MMO, and thusly, I respectful of that. But it is an Open World MMO.

 

Though question, what do you do when you and another player attack a group of enemies at the same time. Being Open World, Ive had this happen quite a few times.

 

Sorry, but no. The fact that most MMOs are open world is precisely why there are these generally accepted rules of good conduct that have developed in most communities. I'd like to see you take that attitude on an older game where credit is determined by the killing blow and players can loot your corpse. Real life is also "open world", do you shoulder people out of the way to grab your groceries first?

 

Typically if we both attack at the same time I will back off, or focus on their primary target to help speed up the fight without taking any credit so that we can get out of combat and go our separate ways. It's an honest mistake and happens all the time, not at all the same as someone jumping in to your fight. In older titles I would just back away, but these days most games lock you in to combat until the entire group is dead.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Fuse_AQM

[Lung_Tien_Lien]

Well I feel it's rude because if that person wanted to group you could ask them. If they want to solo just let them solo. Watching to make sure someone is ok is obviously fine, but following a person around and jumping in to their fights? Maybe they just want to be left alone at the moment. If they ask you nicely to stop, why not just stop?

 

I wouldn't say what is considered rude in other MMOs is irrelevant. Obviously not directly applicable, which is why I made this thread asking, but you shouldn't just ignore rules that have developed over decades and many, many MMOs just because you start a new game.

 

Now for the noob question: How do I switch instances? I'd looked for that functionality before and couldn't find it. I read it was on the map, but if it's there I must be blind (or in a zone that doesn't support it).

 

Well, as I said, if they are actually following you around, they aren't trying to help. This is the same as stealing objectives and all other kinds of rude behavior - asking them to stop won't do anything. (I suspect you'll find people like that in all sorts of online games, though.)

 

True, but you also shouldn't try to apply those other rules if the 'new' rules aren't to your liking. You do seem to be especially unlucky, however, as I've never had problems with that sort of thing.

 

Bring up your map and in the lower right corner of it, there's a drop-down selection for instances. It'll say something like 'Hoth (2)" and you can then switch to another instance. If there are no instances available you won't be able to select anything. Unless you're playing early in the day, however, there should be at least 2. (Though I suppose that does depend on server population.)

[Eillack]

OP....not to be a dick, but is this your first MMO? Because people helping people is kind of a main theme.

 

I'd reword your initial post too, not sure how much sympathy you're going to get while looking like an arrogant punk.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Eillack

[asbalana]

In all of the time that I have been playing swtor, I have never had anyone follow me around to steal kills. The most common bad behavior is to wait until you agroo mobs around an objective and then run in while you are fighting and steal the click or take the node. Stealth players lover to do that. They sit next to a clickable and wait for someone to start to fight the mobs protecting it and then unstealth, click, restealth, and slink away.

 

SWTOR does have a lot of areas where the objective tis to kill 12,652 mobs and the area has 7 mobs. So it is kill, wait for respawn, kill a few more, wait for respawn, and so on. If I come upon you and you are fighting, I will pass on. If we arrive at a group of mobs at around the same tme then indeed I will take what I can.

 

I find that the game has a lot of nice people playing and they will jump in and try to help. Yesterday, I was fighting a champion. It was at 30% health and I was at 90% and another player jumped in and "helped" me with the kill. I thought that it was funny, but much appreciated their intent.

 

If I come upon a player who is fighting mobs and doing o,k., I move on. If they are having trouble, I will help. It seems kind of crappy to watch someone getting the tar kicked out of them and walk on by. Often, when on my healer my help will not be fighting the mobs, but bubbling them and tossing a few heals to keep them up. I have never had anyone ask me to stop helping although it is rare when someone thanks you for saving their backside.

[WickedDjinn]

Even objective stealing is such a momentary annoyance I don't see why anyone would waste time complaining on the boards.

 

Back in, say, Everquest, kill stealing meant something. Rare mobs were actually rare. Having one kill stolen was akin to stealing several minutes of your life. Not only did mobs not instantly respawn, but resting to recover spent HP took minutes, not seconds. There was even a time when a solo player could kill steal from entire groups, wasting several the time of several players at once. That was why gamers created rules of conduct in the first place. It was more then just a casual irritation.

 

Then you another issue. More and more MMOs are moving towards the GW2 type system of allowing everyone who takes part in combat to get credit. This is becoming the norm. Even games resistant to it, like WoW, have been moving in that general direction. When new players come to Swtor there is an increasingly greater chance that they are coming from games where kills cannot be stolen in any sense. Basically the old rules of kill stealing are becoming out dated and soon simply won't apply.

 

If there is one tangible issue it's this. If you asked politely that they not do it, and they go out of their way to do it anyway, then yes they're being jerks.

 

But then again we all have to deal with trolls at some point or another.

[Fuse_AQM]

Well, as I said, if they are actually following you around, they aren't trying to help. This is the same as stealing objectives and all other kinds of rude behavior - asking them to stop won't do anything. (I suspect you'll find people like that in all sorts of online games, though.)

 

True, but you also shouldn't try to apply those other rules if the 'new' rules aren't to your liking. You do seem to be especially unlucky, however, as I've never had problems with that sort of thing.

 

Bring up your map and in the lower right corner of it, there's a drop-down selection for instances. It'll say something like 'Hoth (2)" and you can then switch to another instance. If there are no instances available you won't be able to select anything. Unless you're playing early in the day, however, there should be at least 2. (Though I suppose that does depend on server population.)

 

I've seen my fair share of griefers, they just didn't strike me as such by the way they behaved and the types of responses I got when I asked them to stop. They've all stopped, but many have had something to say like, "you dont get much exp from these" or "they dont drop stuff dont worry". Like I said, that's why I decided to post and see if I was the one who was out of line. Maybe the trolls are just more cunning than I expect.

 

The posters here seem torn on whether or not this is rude, but it's good to hear that it's not as common as my experiences lead me to believe, and thanks for the info about switching instances. It must have been during the wee hours when I looked (there were only 8 people on Taris when I posted this, but two of them decided to "help" me, haha).

 

OP....not to be a dick, but is this your first MMO? Because people helping people is kind of a main theme.

 

I'd reword your initial post too, not sure how much sympathy you're going to get while looking like an arrogant punk.

Said the pot to the kettle. Read the whole thread. I've been playing MMOs since UO, and I know what helping is. This isn't it. I've also apologized for my initial hostility.

 

Even objective stealing is such a momentary annoyance I don't see why anyone would waste time complaining on the boards.

If there is one tangible issue it's this. If you asked politely that they not do it, and they go out of their way to do it anyway, then yes they're being jerks..

 

As I've tried to make clear multiple times, they've stopped but I've gotten a lot of replies that implied I was out of line for asking. This made me post here to see if perhaps the general conduct of the community in this game was different and why, since I'm new here. I'm not looking for sympathy from random people on the internet, no offense.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Fuse_AQM
Tried to add a response, post got all jumbled, should be sorted.

[SW_display_name]

Tag your mobs if you're that worried about trash-mob loot / XP.

 

There's really no need to be possessive otherwise. Most people playing just see "Red name, kill" and figure we're all in this together, so why not? Massively Multi-player, and all that.

 

Personally, if someone wants to cut down on the amount of annoying swarm-trash I have to fight through while doing missions, they're welcome to waste their time while I sail onward to my objectives. [noparse][/noparse]

 

If I need the mobs for a mission, then, well, again — tag them.

[zzoorrzz]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Stealing kills? Never heard of that.