Stop comparing Vitiate to Palpatine...

[Selenial]

I assume what Palpatine achieved wasn't in any way related to his hold over the Dark Side of the Force then? Just like Vitiate? No offense, but right now, you're just being silly, arguing for the sake of arguing and not bringing anything new to the table. Concede defeat and move on, please.

 

The fanboy is strong with this one.

Everything aubere has posted so far, from my view, has been not only on topic, but relevant, and brought new info to the table.

If anyone's being "silly" and refusing to "Concede defeat and move on" it's you.

/endrant

[marcelo_sdk]

Darth_Wicked, c'mon man, we'r having a high level debate here. Nothing wrong about defending your point (wich is pretty same as mine), just don't disrespect the others point of view. That said, let's get back to the topic.

 

Vitiate really ain't all that great. He's very far reaching, which allows him to be a great manipulator and "manager" but his personal strength is almost non existent. He relies on puppets and proxies to do literally everything. Thats a major Achilles' heel. He has no voice right now, which leaves him especially weakened. Without it, he has no direct way of fending off an attempt at his life, he can only guide his servants to defend his corporeal vessel, and really the Wrath is the only one he has thats capable of doing all that much against something like a council mutiny or another direct assault by the Jedi. The Hands serve more of a cleric role and the royal guard are just glorified henchmen. Powerful henchmen but no dark lords. So take out the Wrath and Vitiate is pretty much just a sack of water waiting to be ended.

 

Man, I couldn't disagree more with almost everything you said. First, how can you say his personal strength was almost non existent? I'm sure even Sidious's "team" will agree that's just absurd. He personally defeated Revan, the most powerful Jedi of his time.

 

Yes, he relies puppets and proxies, yes, and Sidious doesn't? Also, Vtiate is vulnerable right now, yes, but so was Palpatine after he was defeated above Endor. If anyone had found his clone facilities, he would be over. He was indeed in a sack of water waiting to be ended.

 

About being defended "just" by the Royal Guard and the Wrath with "no" true Sith Lords. Well, the Wrath, which is a Sith Lord, was probably the most powerful Sith of the time, with perhaps just the Hero of Tython as his match. And you forget that he had the entire Dark Council, wich was compposed of what, 4 Lords? If it's about numbers, Palpatine was defended by only one Sith Lord. That argument just don't give any advantage to either side.

Edited April 17, 2013 by marcelo_sdk

[Callaron]

Which one was it? (honest question)

 

 

Play the Jedi Knight storyline, at some point a super weapon turns the entire world, Uphrades, to cinders.

 

Can't remember the name though.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Callaron

[xxwolfbloodxx]

I agree that Sidious was stronger than Vitiate but i dont understand why people are talking down his accomplishments.

Ok whoopie, Vitiate lived for 1,300 years....one accomplishment(which really is only given, due to the fact nothing was really going on during that time period) doesn't mean that Vitiate is Sidious' superior.

 

He lived for 1,300 years at a time when there was thounsands upon thousands of sith lords all fighting for power. Most of them were trained in the dark side since childhood. But for 1,300 years not one of these thousand of sith lords trained in the dark side form childhood could even come close to Vitate's power.

I dont think there has been another sith lord that has had so many riivels and ruled for so long. Vitate was not just the most powerful sith lord of a generation but the most powerful sith lord for sevreal generations in time with so many sith lords that were trained in the dark side from childhood. I think that the fact that he ruled so long shows how powerful he was.

[Aurbere]

Play the Jedi Knight storyline, at some point a super weapon turns the entire world, Uphrades, to cinders.

 

Can't remember the name though.

 

 

I did play the Jedi Knight story, but I forgot about that.

 

 

But I was referring more to actual planet destruction like Alderaan.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I agree that Sidious was stronger than Vitiate but i dont understand why people are talking down his accomplishments.

Ok whoopie, Vitiate lived for 1,300 years....one accomplishment(which really is only given, due to the fact nothing was really going on during that time period) doesn't mean that Vitiate is Sidious' superior.

 

He lived for 1,300 years at a time when there was thounsands upon thousands of sith lords all fighting for power. Most of them were trained in the dark side since childhood. But for 1,300 years not one of these thousand of sith lords trained in the dark side form childhood could even come close to Vitate's power.

I dont think there has been another sith lord that has had so many riivels and ruled for so long. Vitate was not just the most powerful sith lord of a generation but the most powerful sith lord for sevreal generations in time with so many sith lords that were trained in the dark side from childhood. I think that the fact that he ruled so long shows how powerful he was.

 

Compared to those other Sith, they were all piss ants compared to Vitiate because they were all fighting for power. So of course, none of them reached near his level.

[ZahirS]

Both are lame in my opinion, but Sideous is the only one that has movies and is a main villain.

 

Wolf don't turn to the darkside bud

[Swissbob]

Both are lame in my opinion

 

This actually made me laugh!!! Good post sir!

 

Now I'm actually very curious, which Sith do you like?

[ZahirS]

Well if I had to choose, Ill go for Vader he is one of those Sithlords that despite been severely handicapped retained his nobility he always loved padme and was his personal torment until his redemption, he would be my fav. Edited April 17, 2013 by ZahirS

[Lordmird]

Well if I had to choose, Ill go for Vader he is one of those Sithlords that despite been severely handicapped retained his nobility he always loved padme and was his personal torment until his redemption, he would be my fav.

 

Vader died.

 

Bane lives on.

 

Bane is the most powerful Sith Lord.

 

He makes the rule of two. He dies.

 

He COMES BACK to life, and attempts to take over Gotham in Batman: The Dark Knight Rises.

[Swissbob]

Vader died.

 

Bane lives on.

 

Bane is the most powerful Sith Lord.

 

He makes the rule of two. He dies.

 

He COMES BACK to life, and attempts to take over Gotham in Batman: The Dark Knight Rises.

 

Bane is one of my favorite Sith Lords.

 

Also, laughed at your last sentence.

 

 

Well if I had to choose, Ill go for Vader he is one of those Sithlords that despite been severely handicapped retained his nobility he always loved padme and was his personal torment until his redemption, he would be my fav.

 

I don't know if you are already familiar with him, but I think you would love Darth Sion. I would argue he is even more disfigured then Vader, and even draws his strength from the horrible injuries he's endured.

 

He also has a very similar torment. He develops a love and respect for Meetra Surik, and this torments him to the point where he actually lets himself die. I think you'd find his story very interesting!

 

(Apologies to the OP for getting you thread off-topic )

Edited April 17, 2013 by Swissbob

[Doctoglethorpe]

Darth_Wicked, c'mon man, we'r having a high level debate here. Nothing wrong about defending your point (wich is pretty same as mine), just don't disrespect the others point of view. That said, let's get back to the topic.

 

 

 

Man, I couldn't disagree more with almost everything you said. First, how can you say his personal strength was almost non existent? I'm sure even Sidious's "team" will agree that's just absurd. He personally defeated Revan, the most powerful Jedi of his time.

 

Yes, he relies puppets and proxies, yes, and Sidious doesn't? Also, Vtiate is vulnerable right now, yes, but so was Palpatine after he was defeated above Endor. If anyone had found his clone facilities, he would be over. He was indeed in a sack of water waiting to be ended.

 

About being defended "just" by the Royal Guard and the Wrath with "no" true Sith Lords. Well, the Wrath, which is a Sith Lord, was probably the most powerful Sith of the time, with perhaps just the Hero of Tython as his match. And you forget that he had the entire Dark Council, wich was compposed of what, 4 Lords? If it's about numbers, Palpatine was defended by only one Sith Lord. That argument just don't give any advantage to either side.

 

A) Revan fought him 3 centuries ago, very different circumstance.

B) I said not much defense AFTER the Wrath.

C) The council doesn't really serve him anymore. They stay out of his way for tradition's sake but if they saw an opening to overthrow him they would take it. They almost did with Baras until the Wrath showed up and put the boot down.

 

By personal power I meant without his voice he can't really directly defend himself. He funnels all his power through the voice and when the voice is killed he practically goes into a coma. His true body is a sitting duck, all he can do is influence those around him (not directly controlling them like he does the voice) to defend himself, hence no personal power.

 

He's created his own weakness, he uses a proxy body to avoid death but as a result he's made his real body a big red target that he cannot personally defend. He does a good job of keeping it secured with his guards and Wrath, but like I said, puppets and proxies. Without them he'd be ****ed. Look how easy it was for Baras to trap his Voice. If the Wrath hadn't come along and freed him, Vitiate would be done for. He's a great manipulator, hes very wise and knows very powerful spells, but his style of leadership has cost him his personal strength. You could argue he's ascended above that, but he's still tied to his corporeal body so not really. Sidious on the other hand actually did eventually ascend, Yeah, he used clones, but the reason he was better was because he could go from one to another at will, he wasn't tied to his original body and weakened by the transfer.

[saremun]

well Darth Banes rule of the two didn't work as intended tbh, his idea was that the sith will be more and more powerful generation after generation cause the Apprentice wont challenge the Master unless he/she is power enough to reclaim the mantel of the Dark Lord of the Sith from the Master and taking on new Apprentice and so on BUT that didnt really work.

 

Darth Siduce killed Plaguies(his master) after getting drunk and then killing him in his sleep, before him Darth Zannah killed Darth bane when he was still weak after his capturing by Calibs daughter , so the Betrayal deception was the tool to claim the Sith mantle not the strength.

 

now can someone please clear this to me, I read the trilogy of Darth Bane(path to destruction, the Rule of the two etc..) but never read anything about meetra Surik(revans Jedi companion when confronted the Emperor) so what is the deal?

Edited April 17, 2013 by saremun

[Beniboybling]

STOP! *lifts an upraised palm to emphasis the point*

 

Not but really, great post Wolf. I've been very much in need for a go to source for Sidious' feats and evidence of his power. As some people just don't want to believe it.

 

I only see two arguments against you flopping about on this thread, so I shall address both.

 

Vitiate ruled a powerful Empire for 1,300 years: In the shadows, which constituted a tiny portion of the galaxy, incomparable to the size of Sidious' galactic empire. He always remained in control and one step ahead of his rivals yes, but didn't Sidious also? The manner in which he seems to be able to read Vader's mind and how he has only once been caught of guard suggests so. In a sentence

. However, when Vitiate finally revealed his Empire and fought the Republic, he was struck down by a lone Jedi Knight and is now deceased. Yes, deceased. The Emperor was killed by the Hero of Tython, of whose power is dwarfed by Sidious'.

 

Vitiate lived for 1,300 years: These arguments aren't exactly diverse are they? Well guess what bub, Sidious could have lived for 1,300 years as well: essence transfer.

 

But how about I summarise my arguments with

[Wolfninjajedi]

STOP! *lifts an upraised palm to emphasis the point*

 

Not but really, great post Wolf. I've been very much in need for a go to source for Sidious' feats and evidence of his power. As some people just don't want to believe it.

 

I only see two arguments against you flopping about on this thread, so I shall address both.

 

Vitiate ruled a powerful Empire for 1,300 years: In the shadows, which constituted a tiny portion of the galaxy, incomparable to the size of Sidious' galactic empire. He always remained in control and one step ahead of his rivals yes, but didn't Sidious also? The manner in which he seems to be able to read Vader's mind and how he has only once been caught of guard suggests so. In a sentence

. However, when Vitiate finally revealed his Empire and fought the Republic, he was struck down by a lone Jedi Knight and is now deceased. Yes, deceased. The Emperor was killed by the Hero of Tython, of whose power is dwarfed by Sidious'.

 

Vitiate lived for 1,300 years: These arguments aren't exactly diverse are they? Well guess what bub, Sidious could have lived for 1,300 years as well: essence transfer.

 

But how about I summarise my arguments with

 

I can post more if you want.

[Beniboybling]

I can post more if you want.

Lol that would probably be overkill, but then hey? Overkill is necessary!

[LadyKulvax]

I don't even believe Vitiate to be powerful enough to defeat the likes of Exar Kun and Darth Caedus, never mind Darth Sidious.

[Beniboybling]

I don't even believe Vitiate to be powerful enough to defeat the likes of Exar Kun and Darth Caedus, never mind Darth Sidious.

Agreed. While he no doubt possess immense knowledge of Sith magic, this is only good for keeping him alive and defeating opponents after extensive preparation. In a pitched battle he would falter.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Lol that would probably be overkill, but then hey? Overkill is necessary!

 

Ok if you want....

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1573530-new_picture__21_.jpg

 

After going over to the darkside, Luke sends a message to Leia only to have the message overided by Palpatine and rendering Leia unconscious.

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1573517-new_picture__8_.jpg

 

Luke and Palpatine connect minds while Luke is on Courscant and Palpatine on Byss.

 

Again he tried to see deeper into Palpatine, but without success. The psychic walls the youth had raised were impenetrable, which made the young human something rare indeed. Had Palpatine somehow learned to corral the Force within himself, as Plagueis had concealed his own powers as a youth?

 

While under training with Plagueis when he was young, he is able to shield his mind.

 

"You may be wondering: when did he begin to change? The truth is that I haven’t changed. As we have clouded the minds of the Jedi, I clouded yours. Never once did I have any intention of sharing power with you. I needed to learn from you; no more, no less. To learn all of your secrets, which I trusted you would eventually reveal. But what made you think that I would need you after that? Vanity, perhaps; your sense of self-importance. You’ve been nothing more than a pawn in a game played by a genuine Master.

“The Sith’ari.”

A cruel laugh escaped him.

“Reflect back on even the past few years—assuming you have the capacity. Yinchorr, Dorvalla, Eriadu, Maul, the Neimoidians, Naboo, an army of clones, the fallen Jedi Dooku... You think these were your ideas, when in fact they were mine, cleverly suggested to you so that you could feed them back to me. You were far too trusting, Plagueis. No true Sith can ever really care about another. This has always been known. There is no way but my way.”

 

--Taken from Darth Plagueis

 

Reveals to Plagueis that he had been putting mental suggestions in his mind for years.

 

He studied the Force in all its guises throughout the galaxy, whether it was the shamanism of Jarvashqiine or the tales of the Tyia. Coupled with the perversions of the secrets he ripped from the living minds of Jedi he captured during the Purge, he learned more than ever expected.

 

--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook

 

A show that he used Drain Knowledge to tear information out of minds of Jedi he captured.

 

Palpatine's voice was sinister when he spoke. "You can display me, but I won't speak."

Grievous nodded at what seemed an obvious statement. "I'll display you, but you won't speak. Is that understood?"

"You will do all the talking."

"That's correct. I will do all the talking."

"Very good."

For no apparent reason, Grievous felt uncertain. "Lord Tyranus will soon be here to take charge of you."

Palpatine smiled without showing his teeth. "Then I am assured of being greatly entertained."

 

--Taken from Labyrinth of Evil

 

Mind Trick's Grevious.

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1773579-new_picture__88_.jpg

 

Appears to Mara from lightyears away, while she is on Tatooine and he at the Imperial Palace.

 

Still struggling for breath, Plagueis managed to stand, but only to collapse back onto the couch, knocking a statue from its perch. Sidious moved in, his hands upraised to deliver another bolt, his expression arctic enough to chill the room. A Force storm gathered over the couch, spreading out in concentric rings, to wash over Sidious and hurl objects to all corners. In the center of it, Plagueis’s form became anamorphic, then resumed shape as the storm began to wane.

 

Sidious's eyes bored into the Muun's.

"How often you said that the order of Bane had ended with the death of your Master. An apprentice no longer needs to be stronger, you told me, merely more clever. The era of keeping score, suspicion, and betrayal was over. Strength is not in the flesh but in the Force."

He laughed. "You lost the game on the very first day you chose to train me to rule by your side—or better still, under your thumb. Teacher, yes, and for that I will be eternally grateful. But Master—never."

 

--Taken from Darth Plagueis

 

Withstands a TK storm from Plagueis and says to him, that he surpassed him even while he was being trained.

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1773593-new_picture__102_.jpg

 

A show of Force Flight.

 

Even as he perished, Palpatine used the dark side knowledge the Sith Lords had granted him years earlier to rend space itself and transmigrate his essence across lightyears to Droga's body. The infusion of Palpatine's overwhelming dark side energies reduced Droga to incoherent madness. Eventually, Palpatine's Grand Vizier Pestage was able to find Droga and tear the Emperor's essence from Droga's body.

 

--Taken from Gamer #5

 

Takes control of Droga's body, until he gets to Vizier.

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1573445-new_picture__42_.jpg

 

Creates a Force Storm to destroy an entire fleet.

 

Known dark side nexuses included the twisted tree-cave on Dagobah, Halagad Ventor's hermitage on Trinta, and a "stain" of dark side energy that hovered over Endor following the defeat of the Emperor.

 

--Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

 

His death over Endor leaves a darkside nexus.

 

Maul snarled as he jumped to his feet and swiped at the air with both hands. Dozens of rocks launched up from around Maul and raced toward Sidious. Sidious moved his other hand out from behind his back and flexed his fingers. The approaching rocks rebounded as if they had struck an invisible shield. Some of the rebounding rocks fell near Maul's feet. Surprised, he stumbled back. He wasn't sure what had just happened.

 

--Taken from The Wrath of Darth Maul

 

A show of Force Deflection.

 

Edit: Also Wb LK.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Selenial]

I don't even believe Vitiate to be powerful enough to defeat the likes of Exar Kun and Darth Caedus, never mind Darth Sidious.

 

Welcome back

And completely agreed, I want this debate over with allready :l

Vitiate couldn't hold a candle to sidious...

[Beniboybling]

Ok if you want....

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1573530-new_picture__21_.jpg

 

After going over to the darkside, Luke sends a message to Leia only to have the message overided by Palpatine and rendering Leia unconscious.

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1573517-new_picture__8_.jpg

 

Luke and Palpatine connect minds while Luke is on Courscant and Palpatine on Byss.

 

 

 

While under training with Plagueis when he was young, he is able to shield his mind.

 

 

 

Reveals to Plagueis that he had been putting mental suggestions in his mind for years.

 

 

 

A show that he used Drain Knowledge to tear information out of minds of Jedi he captured.

 

 

 

Mind Trick's Grevious.

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1773579-new_picture__88_.jpg

 

Appears to Mara from lightyears away, while she is on Tatooine and he at the Imperial Palace.

 

 

 

Withstands a TK storm from Plagueis and says to him, that he surpassed him even while he was being trained.

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1773593-new_picture__102_.jpg

 

A show of Force Flight.

 

 

 

Takes control of Droga's body, until he gets to Vizier.

 

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1573445-new_picture__42_.jpg

 

Creates a Force Storm to destroy an entire fleet.

 

 

 

His death over Endor leaves a darkside nexus.

 

 

 

A show of Force Deflection.

 

Edit: Also Wb LK.

The end.

 

/debateover.

 

(BioWare should make this a sticky )

[BradTheImpaler]

Palpatine would win in a duel, period. It's not even a question.

 

I'd say, though, that Vitiate is actually far more evil than Palpatine if you compare the nature/goals of the two (not that Palpatine was a nice guy, but Vitiate makes him look like Saint Sidious).

[Uvirith]

He got tossed in a hole by a wounded onehanded robot and didnt prevent or survive that. yeah, really powerful indeed

[LadyKulvax]

He got tossed in a hole by a wounded onehanded robot and didnt prevent or survive that. yeah, really powerful indeed

 

Vitiate couldn't even prevent mind control from a long dead idiot spirit who got himself killed because the Voss were physic, please.

[Kaedusz]

Stop, stop saying Vitiate is more powerful, stop saying that Vitiate would beat Sidious, enough with these Vitiate vs Sidious threads. It has gotten to the point, where its just making me shake my head at some of the posts people make when these two are brought up....so here in order to prove that

 

Sidious > Vitiate

 

 

Palpatine is Dark Councilor material.He would not last a year ruling this Sith Empire as an emperor.The Dark Council will tear him apart.You compare him to Vader which would be a random Sith Warrior in this timeline.

 

You mad bro?

Edited April 18, 2013 by Kaedusz