Stop comparing Vitiate to Palpatine...

[LadyKulvax]

In order to have a debate , you must have two or more opposite views.What you have here is a Palpatine fanboy club parade.

 

I could care less about palpatine he is a total waste of a brilliant intelligent character demolished by post-ROTJ EU, I hope the sequels replace the demi-god rubbish and turn him back into the manipulative sunuva he was.

 

Running around spouting fanboy because you can't handle the idea that the movie era is where the most powerful characters happen to originate doesn't do you any justice, instead it merely makes any opinion you give seem completely biased.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I could care less about palpatine he is a total waste of a brilliant intelligent character demolished by post-ROTJ EU, I hope the sequels replace the demi-god rubbish and turn him back into the manipulative sunuva he was.

 

Am I the only one, that doesn't mind post-ROTJ?....Where does all this demi-god crap come from?...Maybe I have looked at too many comic chars, and then come back and see it as normal. In fact, compared to some comic chars, Sidious/Luke are actually pretty tame by comparison.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Kaedusz]

Running around spouting fanboy because you can't handle the idea that the movie era is where the most powerful characters happen to originate

 

Just because they are the first and every1 else is more or less modeled after them is not a good enough reason for me to consider them most powerful.Lone statements hanging in the air doesn't work either.Badas$ factor + objective observance of a given character and his comparison to another is what matters.Quality of the product also.

 

That's why i consider some1 that still calls movie characters most powerful even after so many years, is either biased or some kind of SW movie fanatic.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Kaedusz

[LadyKulvax]

Just because they are the first and every1 else is more or less modeled after them is not a good enough reason for me to consider them most powerful.Lone statements hanging in the air doesn't work either.Badas$ factor + objective observance of a given character and his comparison to another is what matters.Quality of the product also.

 

That's why i consider some1 that still calls movie characters more powerful even after so many years, is either biased or some kind of SW movie fanatic.

 

Well that makes absolutely no sense, well done, good luck trying to convince anybody that your own little measuring stick is worthwhile in an argument, because nobody will.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Edit: Nvrm LK, pretty much done it. Edited April 18, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[LadyKulvax]

Am I the only one, that doesn't mind post-ROTJ?....Where does all this demi-god crap come from?...Maybe I have looked at too many comic chars, and then come back and see it as normal. In fact, compared to some comic chars, Sidious/Luke are actually pretty tame by comparison.

 

I don't like comics, I also don't like anything along the lines of dragonball Z, it's all pointless macho pandering IMO.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I don't like comics, I also don't like anything along the lines of dragonball Z, it's all pointless macho pandering IMO.

 

Fair enough, I guess I just don't see it that way with SW. Opinions are opinions after all.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[LadyKulvax]

Fair enough, I guess I just don't see it that way with SW. Opinions are opinions after all.

 

To give you a better example when it comes to Batman, I am infinitely more interested in the characters like Ra's Al Ghul(Spelling?) and the Joker, lesser so Bane, Nolan's movies I enjoy far more than anything like the Avengers films, simply because the characters are very very well done.

[Kaedusz]

Well that makes absolutely no sense, well done, good luck trying to convince anybody that your own little measuring stick is worthwhile in an argument, because nobody will.

 

think about it.If everything in SW is canon ,then debates are pointless.There is no point being on the side of Vitiate,because no matter what he does it is said in ''canon'' that Palpatine is most powerful.The GMs might as well delete the whole Star Wars section of the forum.

 

There is no ''canon'' in the SW franchise.Not in the absolute sense.If Tolkien says the orcs are weaker than the elves i would consider this law.But if some guy(even GL) tells me sith are weaker than jedi,i will just laugh at his face.SW just doesn't work that way.You make up your own mind for stuff like that.

 

The situation with Vitiate vs Palpatine is similar in some ways to the above.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Kaedusz

[LadyKulvax]

think about it.If everything in SW is canon ,then debates are pointless.There is no point being on the side of Vitiate,because no matter what he does it is said in ''canon'' that Palpatine is most powerful.The GMs might as well delete the whole Star Wars section of the forum.

 

There is no ''canon'' in the SW franchise.Not in the absolute sense.If Tolkien says the orcs are weaker than the elves i would consider this law.But if some guy(even GL) tells me sith are weaker than jedi,i will just laugh at his face.SW just doesn't work that way.You make up your own mind for stuff like that.

 

No, George Lucas' statements are consider G-canon, highest form of canon in the canon system employed by Lucas himself and maintained by Leland Chee, I don't care whether or not you like it, but canon is literally the only way to subjectively look at anything, this is their IP and their canon, liking it is not required.

[Beniboybling]

Guys, Kaedusz. We all know that the Sith Emperor is not as powerful as Sidious because he was defeated by a lone Jedi Knight. The end.

[Kaedusz]

No, George Lucas' statements are consider G-canon, highest form of canon in the canon system employed by Lucas himself and maintained by Leland Chee, I don't care whether or not you like it, but canon is literally the only way to subjectively look at anything, this is their IP and their canon, liking it is not required.

 

What you say is similar to reading a book and then reading somewhere how the author want you to understand or interpret what is written.In the SW franchise G-canon can tell me what is written,but how i interpret it is my busyness.

Likeing it or not has nothing to do with it.This issue is in completely different dimension.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Kaedusz

[Beniboybling]

What you say is similar to reading a book and then reading somewhere how the author want you to understand or interpret what is written.In the SW franchise G-canon can tell me what is written,but how i interpret it is my busyness.

Likeing it or not has nothing to do with it.This issue is in completely different dimension.

But when you want to debate about it and discuss the Star Wars universe, with other people, you have to accept a universally shared perspective. Else there is no point.

[Methademix]

Luke is more powerful than both :rak_03:

[marcelo_sdk]

But when you want to debate about it and discuss the Star Wars universe, with other people, you have to accept a universally shared perspective. Else there is no point.

 

What I see here that you guys have a very short-sighted view about everything. First thing, being the most powerful doesn't neccessary mean more succesful nor that you are unbeatable. Second, some of GL statements are pretty much subjective. Like "Vader would have been more powerful than Sidious if he was not defeated by Obi-Wan. With all his injuries, he has 80% (if I'm not mistaken) of Sidious's power." What the hell is 80% of Palpatine's power? To gain or lose 1% what the guy have to do? That is pretty much subjective for me.

Edited April 19, 2013 by marcelo_sdk

[Swissbob]

I believe Palpatine would win in a one-on-one duel. There is tons of info on how powerful Sidious is in combat, and not much on Vitiate.

 

However, I believe this lack of info is mostly because Vitiate was able to avoid personal combat, which is a hugely impressive feat considering how many powerful and ambitious Sith where in his Empire. His scheme's and power were so great he was able to maintain an Empire for hundreds and hundreds of years. This was an Empire *full* of ambitious and powerful Sith. ALL of whom would jump at the chance to obtain the Emperor's position. In fact, Vitiate was able to defeat the entire Dark Council, which were united against him and ready for him. He killed them all at once with the Force, and in mere seconds..

 

So many people think that Vitiate's feat of staying alive for 1300 years is not impressive because he was hidden from the Republic, but you have to remember that his Empire was practically made up of Sith... and ruling over a small Empire of powerful Sith, who are practically killing and challenging each other for power everyday is just as hard, if not harder, then ruling over a big Empire of average, non-forcewielding citizens.

 

Vitiate had his Empire for over twelve-hundred years, Palpatine for not even 40.

 

So, in one-on-one combat, I'd give it to Palpatine. But this can be debated.

 

Who is the better overall Sith... Well that's definitely still in the air. By no means is the "/debateover" just because a list of impressive feats was given.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Swissbob

[Swissbob]

We all know that the Sith Emperor is not as powerful as Sidious because he was defeated by a lone Jedi Knight. The end.

 

 

Oh boy. That's like saying Palpatine was defeated by a one-handed, half-dead cyborg.

 

Oh wait.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Swissbob

[Swissbob]

But when you want to debate about it and discuss the Star Wars universe, with other people, you have to accept a universally shared perspective. Else there is no point.

 

Here, I agree.

[ZahirS]

 

Oh boy. That's like saying Palpatine was defeated by a one-handed, half-dead cyborg.

 

Oh wait.

 

lol this

[Aurbere]

 

Oh boy. That's like saying Palpatine was defeated by a one-handed, half-dead cyborg.

 

Oh wait.

 

Thing is Vader and Palpatine didn't fight. The Hero and Vitiate did.

 

Bad comparison is bad.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Thing is Vader and Palpatine didn't fight. The Hero and Vitiate did.

 

Bad comparison is bad.

 

Even then, Vader still died.

[Swissbob]

Thing is Vader and Palpatine didn't fight. The Hero and Vitiate did.

 

Bad comparison is bad.

 

Yes... I was making an attempt at being sarcastic. It of course is inaccurate because there are so many other factors playing into why Palpatine was killed.

 

The same is true with "Vitiate was killed by a lone Jedi Knight."

 

This was not only a Jedi Knight, but a Jedi Master. A Jedi Master who's power and skill in combat and the Force was above almost every Jedi of his time.

 

And he was not alone. He was backed by the entire Jedi Council, and a whole group of Jed Masters who's entire purpose and drive was to eliminate Vitiate as a threat.

 

To say "killed by a lone jedi knight" is a gross understatement.

 

Just as gross an understatement as "killed by a one handed half dead cybrog."

 

Even then, Vader still died.

 

I thought the largest cause of Vader's death was the wounds he received from Luke, not Palpatine.

 

But even if Palpatine single-handedly killed Vader....

 

it's not very relevant.

 

Actually... this entire post I'm making right now isn't very relevant to the discusion. It is a response to a response to a sarcastic response.

 

My main post (that was not sarcastic) was the one directly above.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Swissbob

[Ventessel]

What I see here that you guys have a very short-sighted view about everything. First thing, being the most powerful doesn't neccessary mean more succesful nor that you are unbeatable. Second, some of GL statements are pretty much subjective. Like "Vader would have been more powerful than Sidious if he was not defeated by Obi-Wan. With all his injuries, he has 80% (if I'm not mistaken) of Sidious's power." What the hell is 80% of Palpatine's power? To gain or lose 1% what the guy have to do? That is pretty much subjective for me.

 

Precisely.

 

Even the statements by GL are simply estimations, used to gauge the relative strengths of characters. There are so many factors which can affect a confrontation between two Force Users that no hard and fast power scale can be used to pick one over another.

[TheLordMagnus]

and for al of pals power he was tossed of the casam to his doom buy a robot that had a brain

 

pal was awesome i won't deny him that but the forces of old rip what the movies characters had

 

 

and his rule was 30 years not a very long one at that

you could say the infinite empire was way more powerful then the republic and sith combined

we all have our favorites

 

mine was an old lady that showed me the true nature of the force

she wasn't the most powerful but her wisdom was pure in its nature{ the force is a will of its own we do not wield it it wields us }

[Swissbob]

 

mine was an old lady that showed me the true nature of the force

she wasn't the most powerful but her wisdom was pure in its nature{ the force is a will of its own we do not wield it it wields us }

 

Kreia alone was almost the sole reason I've played Kotor 2 so many times. Brilliant character, brilliant voice acting.

 

But the rest of your post I agree with as well. We all have our favorites, and a list of impressive feats does not automatically end a debate, no questions asked.