Twin Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 A caveat, I'm at home with a sick infant so my numbers might be a little off, but I think the expertise value while under Bolster was set on underworld gear at 1332. Will WH/EWH be better then the best pre2.0 PvE gear in Open World PvP -Or are you giving PvE players an advantage over PvPers in PvP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRampage Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Was playing vanguard dps in pvp (altough my main is tanking, that what i started, I'm tank in pve). In wz with 35k hp so far, not yet 72, some pieces, will be soon. I imagine myself with almost 40k hp and a healer on me. Yeah, good luck with killing tanks that will roll like that in pvp. Trust me, tried it with my healer or two, if I die it is because we are separated and I have 6 people on me. So, yes, with curent bolster woring like that.... just a tip, was in random 2 night ago with a scoundrel healer with full 72 gear. over 3000 cunning. Did we die? Take a guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 but: :confused:if thats true, how bout goin full underworld mainhand an offhand? At first I assumed Conqueror gear would get no expertise (since it's the best PvE gear possible) but since dev said this isn't the case that changes things in particular for the hilt on the MH. For OH it's far less certain because OH do not grant 100% of their rating to weapon damage attacks. So for a class like Markmanship Sniper that does mostly ranged damage, they'd benefit relatively little from the extra stats on OH since tech power doesn't affect ranged. On the other hand say a class that does only Force damage, like Sorcerers, they'd benefit equally from OH compared to MH so they should use 2 UW hilts. For classes that do a mix of damage, you'd have to look at how much your damage comes from weapon attack and decide accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 (edited) A caveat, I'm at home with a sick infant so my numbers might be a little off, but I think the expertise value while under Bolster was set on underworld gear at 1332. Rob, I am seriously questioning your dedication to PvP. I mean you stay at home to take care of the kid, while my gaming world is in shambles? Give the kid some Kolto, and get back to work! j/k thanks for the info, sounds like my concerns where addressed, but take care of your kid man... Pay no attention to the nerd rage behind the curtain.. Edited April 16, 2013 by L-RANDLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znihilist Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 At first I assumed Conqueror gear would get no expertise (since it's the best PvE gear possible) but since dev said this isn't the case that changes things in particular for the hilt on the MH. For OH it's far less certain because OH do not grant 100% of their rating to weapon damage attacks. So for a class like Markmanship Sniper that does mostly ranged damage, they'd benefit relatively little from the extra stats on OH since tech power doesn't affect ranged. On the other hand say a class that does only Force damage, like Sorcerers, they'd benefit equally from OH compared to MH so they should use 2 UW hilts. For classes that do a mix of damage, you'd have to look at how much your damage comes from weapon attack and decide accordingly. The OH on the sorcerer doesn't use a hilt, it uses an armouring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 The OH on the sorcerer doesn't use a hilt, it uses an armouring. Hmmm, good point, but I assume if you put a UW armoring in it then it's still going to get the extra Force Power? I mean that Force Power has to come from something so that'd be actually easier, as all you'd have to do is pull out the UW armoring from a bracer or belt and put it there. The slots with the set bonus won't work I think since they're tied to the slot, but should work for belt/bracer armoring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusFTW Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Hmmm, good point, but I assume if you put a UW armoring in it then it's still going to get the extra Force Power? I mean that Force Power has to come from something so that'd be actually easier, as all you'd have to do is pull out the UW armoring from a bracer or belt and put it there. The slots with the set bonus won't work I think since they're tied to the slot, but should work for belt/bracer armoring? armorings are bound to slot now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 armorings are bound to slot now I see, so no cheating on OH without actually obtaining an UW OH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I see, so no cheating on OH without actually obtaining an UW OH. Well you can still get a crafted one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znihilist Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Hmmm, good point, but I assume if you put a UW armoring in it then it's still going to get the extra Force Power? I mean that Force Power has to come from something so that'd be actually easier, as all you'd have to do is pull out the UW armoring from a bracer or belt and put it there. The slots with the set bonus won't work I think since they're tied to the slot, but should work for belt/bracer armoring? It does come from the armouring, I was just pointing out the small mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morinesse Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 still no answer to how bolster will affect items with mixed mods (pve+pvp)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilmoka Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Looks like heavy armor gets screwed again in pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantasym Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 still no answer to how bolster will affect items with mixed mods (pve+pvp)! As someone pointed on from the post about removing the expertise crystal the Devs made, if you mix pve and pvp mods then the item doesn't get any expertise bolster if it has even 1 expertise it is treated as a pvp item and not bolstered. That is why they asked people to remove the expertise crystal from their old WH and EWH weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 (edited) still no answer to how bolster will affect items with mixed mods (pve+pvp)! Eric said don't do it and also stated to remove EXP crystals on WH/EWH since Bolster is set up to detect EXP amounts on a specific piece. So you can mix on a global between PvP and PvE gear, but on one specific piece you can have, say A PvE armoring and PvP mods/enh on a cheast piece, is not worth it. If the system detects any EXP, that slot (item as a whole) will not be bolstered. Edited April 16, 2013 by L-RANDLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 As someone pointed on from the post about removing the expertise crystal the Devs made, if you mix pve and pvp mods then the item doesn't get any expertise bolster if it has even 1 expertise it is treated as a pvp item and not bolstered. That is why they asked people to remove the expertise crystal from their old WH and EWH weapons. Wait, that changes things quite a bit, because then mixing UW hilt in a Conqueror gear means you just lose the 68 expertise from hilt as it'd get no bolster, and 68 expertise is enough to make up for the difference unless one has no concern for survival. The more interesting case is what if you take the whole UW weapon. Looking at the numbers provided by the dev you'd expect UW weapon to have 124 expertise versus 190 expertise for Conqueror, so you lose 66 expertise, but you also have better mods/enhancements compared to their PvP counterparts. It's not clear if this is enough to overcome the expertise but this would mean using UW weapon is strictly better than mix and matching UW hilt with PvP mods. I'll have to check the vendor again but it could end up being a neutral trade if one values offense and defense equally as the likely outcome is that offense is increased at the expense of a corresponding loss of defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 (edited) Now as a pvper what would be the point of grinding for the new sets when i can just get myself full underworld gear and call it a day and go into a wz and lolrape anyone who comes in my path (including full partisan/conqueror sets. If you like to PvP, you will get the sets just from your effort in WZs. I certainly wouldn't waste time min/maxing a set of PvP gear at this point though. But you are correct, the only set of gear worth grinding in 2.0 for PvP is Underworld T1 PvE Gear. I think the only way to avoid this is remove bolster from 55 bracket only. Bolster is fine in Regz. It really needs to be removed from Rateds however. Otherwise, there really is no need to grind an inferior set of Conqueror gear. That aside, bolster should be fixed soon hopefully... Don't hold your breath. If they don't equalize the levels, you're going to be seeing 72 hilts/barrels being required in order to stay competitive in RWZ. Min/Maxing will no longer be a PvP grind. It seems quite ridiculous that I have to grind out PvE gear to stay competitive in warzones. Welcome to SWTOR PvP 2.0. For me the new system is a punch in the face for pvp players. I cant follow the logic... I actually understand the logic, but the implementation is a complete disaster. You make getting a full set of Underworld armor sound like a walk in the park lol. It will be many weeks before people are in full stock Underworld and even more weeks before they can effectively min/max their gear with Ultimate commendations. Ya...About the same time it would take to Min/Max a set of Conqueror gear. Decisions, decisions... Edited April 16, 2013 by DarthOvertone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimateKrucible Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 snip Ya...About the same time it would take to Min/Max a set of Conqueror gear. Decisions, decisions... Good post, Darth. Sad to say I think my decision is going to be: Finish Makeb and then gth out of here for a while. Tis another option after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tankqull Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Another "bug"? its not a bug its a feature - that this would happen was quite obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 A caveat, I'm at home with a sick infant so my numbers might be a little off, but I think the expertise value while under Bolster was set on underworld gear at 1332. Rob, my man, just kill Expertise dead and remove it from the game. The stat was a bad idea from the start and is just mucking up anything you try to do for PvP. Let people gear up for PvP in any way they wish whether PvE/PvP/Crafting. Keep Bolster and fix it for Lowbies and Regz. Unlike Expertise, it actually is a good idea, just poorly implemented at the current time. However, remove Bolster from Ranked War Zones. This will make grinding PvP gear matter and provide something for hardcore PvPers to do at endgame. Do those things my brother and see the albatross lifted from PvP in SWTOR. p.s. I'm pretty upset that I can't Nekkid PvP anymore...but I'll get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantasym Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I understand the need for the bolster to add expertise so that someone just starting out doesn't get destroyed by people with 2000 expertise. Before recruit it was even worse where you went up against fully geared people you didn't have a chance. They need to find a way to make sure PVE gear of any level is never better then PVP gear though. Maybe an easy fix would be for the bolster to set their gear to the stat quota they have for the just below pvp level, so if you are wearing the best pve gear, you gain expertise, but might have other things lowered. Anyone in pve gear gets set to the same level max level regardless of if they have level 45 purples on their level 45 character or top level 55 purples on their 55. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggz Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 (edited) I want bolster when I go to raid with PvP gear Fair is fair Edited April 16, 2013 by Riggz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Rob, my man, just kill Expertise dead and remove it from the game. The stat was a bad idea from the start and is just mucking up anything you try to do for PvP. Let people gear up for PvP in any way they wish whether PvE/PvP/Crafting. Keep Bolster and fix it for Lowbies and Regz. Unlike Expertise, it actually is a good idea, just poorly implemented at the current time. However, remove Bolster from Ranked War Zones. This will make grinding PvP gear matter and provide something for hardcore PvPers to do at endgame. Do those things my brother and see the albatross lifted from PvP in SWTOR. p.s. I'm pretty upset that I can't Nekkid PvP anymore...but I'll get over it. Absolutely THIS!!!!! (minus the nekkid part ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Absolutely THIS!!!!! (minus the nekkid part ) They are indirectly trying to eliminate barrier to ranked though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantasym Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Removing Bolster from Ranked would certainly be a start. Only problem with it is that you might need two different sets of gear at 55 for regular PVP and Ranked PVP and you cant do Ranked if you don't have your 8 man team online. They could always make the PVP gear as good as PVE but with expertise, but that would allow pvper's to enter top end PVE without ever doing a single Operation to get gear. It will probably be complicated but the bolster really needs to just stay in but make sure PVE gear is never bolstered to better then PVP, it needs to bolster top end PVE down and low end PVE up. That way people just starting 55 pvp don't get destroyed by geared while they try to earn their gear, and you don't need two sets of PVP gear, and still need to do PVP and PVE separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceAlert Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Why not just use a completely different Bolster formula for L55: IF Expertise < 1200 THEN Expertise = 1200 Change number as needed for balance, modify no other stats. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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