It's great to PVE with no Damage Meters

[Brainshack]

These folks are usually no different than the folks that spend tons of time mastering Street Fighter or Starcraft. With video games it usually is about how much time one spends with a game. It's not a actual skill if mostly anyone can do it given the time.

 

No matter how hard I try I could never master painting or playing the piano like a pro. NOW that is an actual skill and talent.

 

Also a lot of these people just copy/paste their builds and rotations making it even less of a skill. The people who are theory crafting are using skills...but they are using math and not some game skill.

 

And however hard you try. you wont be able to beat top notch starcraft 2 player. Because it aint that easy as it seems. As in everything, you can get to a descent level in everything by training hard and investigating time (i would even asay, you could become quite a good piano player by investing a lot of effort in it) but you would enver be able to master a thing, if you dont have those special talents. In SC2 that would be the perfect undestanding of the meta game and a perfect mindset, so you can read you opoonent perfectly.

 

 

In MMO however, i guess there is a natural skill cap, regarding PVE play, since we always just play vs. a computer AI, which is by now not remotly as verastile as a human being could be. That makes the big difference in P v AI and P v P games.

 

About the DMG Meters: nobody really needs them. Or how else have we been able to handle our first 40 man raids back in old vanilla wow, without them?

 

Let's see this out of an TOR Raider. You're 8 or 16 Ppl in a raid. You have an encounter. Your tank always dies. What to do? Okay, the typically WoW Style player of type "I'm to lazy to do stuff my self, I'd rather have an addon jumping in my face, telling me what to do", would just want to look at some plain numbers to have reasons to kick people.

 

But is this really to wishworthy in a game that also has some sort of social component in it? The funny thing that always comes to my mind when people start to complain that TOR is more of an Singleplayer game then of an MMO, is my personal experience with WoW. When i started WoW with the release of good old vanilla, people had to organise them selfes. You had to get into a guild to be able to get your 40 guys for the raid all together. You had to talk to eachother, because you didn't have the addons that did everything for you. Today you run from Random Heroics to Random Battleground thorugh random raids. You don't even have to talk to anybody. Even Guilds aren't what they used to be anymore, since the guild rewards came into the game. The whole emmersive World of Warcraft experience feels so mich more like a solo player game to me, since you don't have any reason to interact with people. not eben for trading, thx to the AH.

 

Bioware is doing the things they do for good reason. Don't having cross Server stuff is good for the server communities. Don't having addons is good for player interaction. Ppl will have to talk to find out whats going on. They will have to analyze stuff on a deeper level instead of just counting plain numbers. I like this new "old" familial feeling i get when i play a warzone or a flashpoint in TOR. Screw competitive PvE, it was the worst thing that ever happened to WoW.

[Skeelol]

And however hard you try. you wont be able to beat top notch starcraft 2 player. Because it aint that easy as it seems. As in everything, you can get to a descent level in everything by training hard and investigating time (i would even asay, you could become quite a good piano player by investing a lot of effort in it) but you would enver be able to master a thing, if you dont have those special talents. In SC2 that would be the perfect undestanding of the meta game and a perfect mindset, so you can read you opoonent perfectly.

 

 

In MMO however, i guess there is a natural skill cap, regarding PVE play, since we always just play vs. a computer AI, which is by now not remotly as verastile as a human being could be. That makes the big difference in P v AI and P v P games.

 

About the DMG Meters: nobody really needs them. Or how else have we been able to handle our first 40 man raids back in old vanilla wow, without them?

 

Let's see this out of an TOR Raider. You're 8 or 16 Ppl in a raid. You have an encounter. Your tank always dies. What to do? Okay, the typically WoW Style player of type "I'm to lazy to do stuff my self, I'd rather have an addon jumping in my face, telling me what to do", would just want to look at some plain numbers to have reasons to kick people.

 

But is this really to wishworthy in a game that also has some sort of social component in it? The funny thing that always comes to my mind when people start to complain that TOR is more of an Singleplayer game then of an MMO, is my personal experience with WoW. When i started WoW with the release of good old vanilla, people had to organise them selfes. You had to get into a guild to be able to get your 40 guys for the raid all together. You had to talk to eachother, because you didn't have the addons that did everything for you. Today you run from Random Heroics to Random Battleground thorugh random raids. You don't even have to talk to anybody. Even Guilds aren't what they used to be anymore, since the guild rewards came into the game. The whole emmersive World of Warcraft experience feels so mich more like a solo player game to me, since you don't have any reason to interact with people. not eben for trading, thx to the AH.

 

Bioware is doing the things they do for good reason. Don't having cross Server stuff is good for the server communities. Don't having addons is good for player interaction. Ppl will have to talk to find out whats going on. They will have to analyze stuff on a deeper level instead of just counting plain numbers. I like this new "old" familial feeling i get when i play a warzone or a flashpoint in TOR. Screw competitive PvE, it was the worst thing that ever happened to WoW.

 

There were meters in vanilla wow.

 

Also as stated before, combat logs are coming which means damage meters are coming along with every other info needed to see who's failing.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Skeelol

[RudyRoo]

if you dont want a dps meter turn it off/dont look at it if you get booted for low dps find some like minded baddies and go jump off a cliff. dont waste my time bc your too lazy to figure out your class.

[calhungus]

Im new to this game as i did not play the Beta. I see arguments for and against dps meters.

One of the arguments was that you could not do high end raiding without them. I strongly disagree with this,i have raided for allmost seven years in Everquest in a top tier guild and we managed fine with 50+ man raids without dps meters.

Instead you have to use deduction and try new strategies to beat an encounter.

My opinion is that dps meters breed elitism and that they make people blind as they dont use all of the abilites they could have used instead to get a result.

I also strongly believe that a game without them is better in the way of creating a friendlier enviroment for player interaction.

Just my humble opinion.

Sorry if my english is not up too par it is not my native language so i hope that you will forgive me.

[xellfish]

These folks are usually no different than the folks that spend tons of time mastering Street Fighter or Starcraft. With video games it usually is about how much time one spends with a game. It's not a actual skill if mostly anyone can do it given the time.

 

No matter how hard I try I could never master painting or playing the piano like a pro. NOW that is an actual skill and talent.

 

Careful, your ignorance is showing. It's like saying everyone could become a master at chess given enough time. They don't. Even if you invest just as much time, you'd still be limited by your intelligence. Same goes for games like Starcraft, actually much more so. A smarter player will always beat you, given the same amount of time.

 

Being inherently good at strategic games like Starcraft is just as much of a talent as being able to paint or being good at playing music. They are all a form of intelligence, with the first one arguably being much more applicable to real life than the latter two. And I am an illustrator and do suck at Starcraft, so no bias here.

[Kocicak]

Ugh, bad players now do not have to feel bad about being a subpar addition to the team.

 

 

Sucks.

[LaurV]

I love having no meters so now I can play the way i want to play and just use the spells I want too even if they are not the ones I should be using. Now no one can complain about how I play.

 

For players like this i want dps meters

 

I don't want to be grouped with some scrub that things that pressing only 1 skill is cool. Sorry.

[LaurV]

Ugh, bad players now do not have to feel bad about being a subpar addition to the team.

 

 

Sucks.

 

Bad players like and want to be bad players

[Descento]

fantastic, I can finally enjoy flashpoints being AFK the whole instance, sitting there and inspecting my character, going off for a food break or walk the dog - and no one would notice that i don't put any effort!!

 

being carried rocks! thanks Bioware!

 

Fixed it for you.

[Edward_Nigma]

fantastic, I can finally enjoy flashpoints without some kid linking his meter every 3 mins to brag.

 

what a blast, thanks for not including a combat log bioware!

a combat log (and damage meters) is coming, so enjoy it will it lasts, I know I don't currently and can't wait to analyse and optimize my own damage

[Dietyz]

Bad players like and want to be bad players

 

exact opposite, infact the majority of them don't even realize that they're bad

[Areka]

Back in the day people played without them doing all kind of content. And they survived.

[Crash-X]

Careful, your ignorance is showing. It's like saying everyone could become a master at chess given enough time. They don't. Even if you invest just as much time, you'd still be limited by your intelligence. Same goes for games like Starcraft, actually much more so. A smarter player will always beat you, given the same amount of time.

 

Being inherently good at strategic games like Starcraft is just as much of a talent as being able to paint or being good at playing music. They are all a form of intelligence, with the first one arguably being much more applicable to real life than the latter two. And I am an illustrator and do suck at Starcraft, so no bias here.

 

Strategy in games like chess is usually picked up by experience. You learn from your failures, being good at anything takes time. Also being more intelligent is not a game skill, it's a real life skill you are applying to a game.

[Heliotic]

Its gonna be fun to guess who's AFK watching their favorite T.V. Program while trying to down heroics raids

 

They'll be the person not talking on voice chat.

[darthjerro]

ftyf!

 

That's why most raiders want meters, to sit in judgement of others and lord their own uberness, it's been that way since the first meter appeared and why the majority of people who are for one do so.

 

YEs, its true. Why do 6 of us have to do all the hard work while the other 2 just coast and bludge of us?

 

I like playing with people that actually know how to play, ill go to any lengths to find them and to try to group with them often. 1 of the best ways it to check their damage, check to see how good they heal, check their interupts and cc abilities. etc etc. A damage metre doesnt ONLY portray damage you know. If one is created correctly , they tell you all sorts of interesting information, like a persons rotation and why the hell are they using that ability when it does absolutely nothing.

[LaurV]

why the hell are they using that ability when it does absolutely nothing.

 

It will not tell you why, only that he did

[BeeblesTV]

Things die. I get loot. I'm happy.

 

It's easy to figure out the weak link in 4 mans if the above things aren't happening. Without meters.

[gangbot]

i have never seen anyone post their damage meter on a low level instance in wow, they would get flamed at for doing so.

 

SAY YES TO ADDONS!

[LilTikiBoy]

I miss my meter, I liked seeing how I was doing. If somebody of the same class destroyed ne I could ask what was different. Also helps devs see whose op and who needs a little loving.

[Bullsith]

LOOOL I luv it 2. no1 knw i sux in dps but its k cuz i want 2 sux.

 

 

....

 

Please RECOUNT come to SWTOR!

[TheHauntingBard]

Speak for your self as healer it is a total pain.

Some runs are a complete nightmare and you wonder what is going wrong, guess what I can't see it.

I can't see if the guy next to me is just taunting mobs or pulling aggro because the tank is auto attacking.

Fun stuff wasting 10 pots and force tabbing to keep people up while in another group I never drop below 80% force.

 

I had some great runs as well but I can honestly not tell what went better or worse aside from I had less to heal.

I can't monitor my own absorbs either ' shield barrier absorbs a lot' so what if the boss does terrible terrible damage?

How much is a lot in that comparison?

 

 

I really don't find this fun at all.

Edited December 21, 2011 by TheHauntingBard

[DuffAlmighty]

Its gonna be fun to guess who's AFK watching their favorite T.V. Program while trying to down heroics raids

 

Actually did something similar to that once.

 

Healing Putricide while also playing on the PTR realm in PVP.

 

Still topped healing

[Baldness]

fantastic, I can finally enjoy flashpoints without some kid linking his meter every 3 mins to brag.

 

what a blast, thanks for not including a combat log bioware!

 

I agree for the moment.

[Rollcageuk]

Blimey, WOW really did make people the laziest gamers possible.

 

Need a group..a tool that does it all for you

Need to improve your group performance, here's a tool to do it.

 

STOP BEING SO LAZY!!!

 

You improve your game through practice, failing then practicing some more, and you keep practicing until you kill whatever it is you are trying to kill.

Anyone that played WOW Vanilla will remember MC and that we didn't learn how to beat raggy with DPS meters, we practiced, week after week, we developed our techniques and skills until we finished it. It was hard work and frustrating but we did it and when we did it was the greatest feeling possible.

 

Now, killing a boss in WOW is more like a maths quiz, and it is boring.

 

I want that feeling of earning something back, and so DPS meters should not be introduced IMHO. It ruins games. Instead how about L2P.

[Verita]

I would like to see a summary at the end of flashpoints like in warzones.

 

That way one can try different things and still see some numbers without looking at a damage meter all the time. At the moment I sometimes have to guess, if it's me who does all the damage or the Shadow next to me, which makes it hard to improve my playstyle.

 

And maybe we could also get to vote similar to the PVP MVP...

Edited December 21, 2011 by Verita