Disappointed about so-called "New In Game Barber-Shop"

[DaRoamer]

Interesting way of counting, because I see only 9 bug fixes total. From these 9 bug fixes, 5 are bug fixes of Cartel Market bugs (the remaining 4 are 2 Legacy bug fixes and 2 Miscellaneous bug fixes).

 

Pretty much gives you idea what are BioWare's priorities....

 

So you're not counting the class mission bug fixes? This is quite ridiculous and pointless though. If you just like counting lines you can tell me how many of these patch notes are about the cartel market:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=600569

Edited March 23, 2013 by DaRoamer

[Jedlosson]

How long have you been playing MMO's for?

 

Ultima Online, I played that from launch til 2004 and guess what? UO still had bugs in it left over from launch. It had area's of the map that gm's had to block off due to rubber banding. And note some of those bugs and even areas are still in and not fixed. UO has been around now for what? Almost 15 years?

 

Everquest, my girlfriend is playing it right now and I'm talking Everquest not EQ2. She's run into some bugs and issues that she remembers running into, back in 2001/2002 when she started playing it.

 

SWG? I can't count how many bugs SWG had that never got fixed. And yes SWG had a couple from launch until the game died.

 

Age of Conan, still has tons of bugs in it. And if you want to bring up raid bosses... One of AoC's Tier 1 Raid Bosses Yakhmar was broken for months. Yakhmar had a spawn of worms that was coming in way too fast. I think it took them like 6 months just to fix it so the spawns came in a tad slower. Yes people could do and beat the raid, however it was well I think you know the word I'm going to use. Hint it starts with a B.

 

My point being do you really think TOR is the only MMO that has stuff like this happen? I know I was reading something about a couple of bugs in GW2 that haven't been fixed and have been in the game for months. And fun thing? I've heard the same thing you are saying in almost every F2P title, this Dev's will fix cash shop stuff before the main game.

 

Why is that? Most of the time the cash shop stuff are easy fixes. Not only that it's how they are making money. But believe me games have bugs, sometimes those bugs will be in the game for years before they get fixed.

 

I have been playing MMORPGs since World of Warcraft release - 2005. After 2 month of trying Mists of Pandaria, I quit. I really dislike many thing Blizzard does, especially the whole Diablo 3 is a joke. But it never took them this long to fix game-breaking bugs. In WoW, never in my life had I have an issue that I would have to repeat the raid encounter 7 times in the row because the boss bugged out. Bug fixing is one thing Blizzard does incredibly well, while BioWare is bad.

 

I have tried Age of Conan, even preordered. Yes, the game was incredibly buggy as hell when released. Even quest were completely bugged out so they could not be completed, pathfinding was one of the worst I have ever seen. I never said the game release of SWToR was bad, it was one of the smoothest game releases I have seen in my life, if you search my previous posts, I never said otherwise and I even defended BioWare on that theme.

 

I have tried EVE Online, bug fixing is better there than here. And the customer support is incredibly fast there, BioWare's... not so much. The fact that SWToR bug report window is bugged is another, if highly ironic, story...

(reminds me of Red Dwarf TV series:

Rimmer: Was there any damage?

Holly: I don't know. The damage report machine has been damaged.)

 

As for Ultima Online, I never tried it, but I would not be surprised it still has bugs, this has Electronic Arts as a producer just as this SWToR does.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Jedlosson

[Jedlosson]

So you're not counting the class mission bug fixes? This is quite ridiculous and pointless though. If you just like counting lines you can tell me how many of these patch notes are about the cartel market:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=600569

 

Oh, please do not even mention 2.0 and the Rise of the Hutt Cartel.

 

The fact that BioWare stated that Makeb will be free and then stabbed players in the back by forcing subscribers to pay for it was a sick joke by itself, not worthy of ever mentioning ever again, too many threads have already been wasted on this forum on that theme.

[Jedlosson]

Anyways, it appears to me that we have already stranded to far from the original theme of this thread "Disappointed about so-called "New In Game Barber-Shop"".

 

You know my opinion, I can see yours. Given the high probability that we will not reach any conclusion in our discussion (only person who can do anything about it is BioWare anyways), let us end this coversation by agreeing to disagree.

[xorcist]

Obviously the explanation of the decision to do what Mythic/Bioware Austin plans to do with the Barber Shop is not a good decision. Same with paying for Rep. As a whole, it is wrong. It is unfair to subscribers. And the Greed shows. They have completely soured the gaming experience, and are delusional. They think we like it this way... True story. So in denial and they need to lay off some people if they think all these ideas will please us and make us happy. Those Players who have a voice have spoken up. I can see from the consensus that the SWTOR players are raging mad about this and the Rep fiasco. I agree with their statements. I share them.

 

Mythic,

The more transgressions you do concerning real life money surrounding your subscribed players, the closer you get to more lay offs for yourselves. So keep it up.

 

Edit:

And if you're hoping Cory will save the Austin branch with his Cartel Market. Getting the extra money from the rest of the players that stayed behind after the exodus, to make up for low sub numbers so as to make the board of directors, and share holders satisfied. We know. I'm sure the suites threatened your jobs down there if you didn't find a way to make up for that lost money. How many employees resigned, and even the founders of Bioware left as well. Sorry, but your problems are not ours. If thats the way you feel about the loyalty of your players, there are other companies that would love to have us as subscribers for their MMO's. Even give us gratitude for supporting them.

Edited March 24, 2013 by xorcist

[DaRoamer]

Oh, please do not even mention 2.0 and the Rise of the Hutt Cartel.

 

The fact that BioWare stated that Makeb will be free and then stabbed players in the back by forcing subscribers to pay for it was a sick joke by itself, not worthy of ever mentioning ever again, too many threads have already been wasted on this forum on that theme.

 

A - They never said it would be free, it was an interviewer who said that and James Ohlen did not correct him and almost immediately after they said they weren't sure it was going to be free or not. Also, stab in the back is a little overly dramatic, the game was struggling went free to play which changes things and we have no idea how much was added to Makeb between last June and now. Typically adding levels to an MMO=expansion and added cost.

B - Not all those patch notes relate to people who buy the expansion. Much of that stuff will still affect 50s who don't purchase the expansion. The fact you fail to acknowledge this just confirms your confirmation bias.

[MajikMyst]

Your post doesn't really make much sense. How are they to add stuff to the cartel market without thinking about our monthly coins? Can you describe how you feel that line of thinking should go amongst the developers when deciding on items for the cartel market?

 

As for content, they've been adding it every 6-8 weeks. Perhaps you missed the event going on? Did you check out the new stuff on the PTS? It seems like people cannot remember things beyond the past week.

 

I guess my question to you is.. What content have they added?? The rep perhaps?? Let's see.. No new quests added for the Voss.. No new quests added for space missions.. No quests added for the Cartel rep that you have to purchase.. The gree?? Ok.. I'll give you the Gree.. Even though that isn't much either.. As far as I am concerned they could have done that event much better..

 

The life day event was a box on the Cartel Market.. No missions, no new bosses, no decorations, Nothing.. A box that we bought on the cartel market..

 

Perhaps you don't understand what content is?? Content is anything that requires you to do something in the game to earn.. Not buy.. A rare spawn drops a pet, versus buying the pet on the market.. Get it?? So no, They have not been adding that much content.. Been playing the game since beta so I am sure I didn't miss something..

 

Every since the market has been introduced, this game has been all about the market.. Countless things have been added to the market.. Packs, speeders, gear, and various other things.. What has been added to the game in the way of things for us to do?? They added the Rep thing which is a start, but then they took the easy way out.. Voss rep is just a vendor.. Do the heroics.. Yes, the ones that were there before.. No new missions.. Not even a little story about the rep.. It can be a holorecording, or just a wall of text at a terminal.. They added a vendor and called it rep..

 

If you read Eric's post you would understand the answer to your first question..

 

I wanted to pop in and address some of your concerns about our barbershop and its use of Cartel Coins and not credits. There are a couple of design implications that go into these decisions I wanted to highlight in the hopes that it makes our decision in this regard a bit clearer.

 

• We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.
  
• We want to set the expectation that cosmetic systems like these are where you are going to see us use the Cartel Market. It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market.
  

As we continue to release more information about our barbershop please continue to give us your feedback.

 

-eric

 

Nothing should be added to the Cartel Market with the fact that we get monthly grants in mind.. Our grants do not need to be spent for us.. In short, all they are doing is attempting to spend our money so that we will have to spend more money and purchase more coins.. Which is why you can buy Rep from the market.. They are putting as much as they can in the market for that very purpose..

 

Rep does not belong on the Market..

The Barber Shop does not belong on the Market..

Events do not belong on the Market.. (See life day..)

 

Largely the Market should only be used for the F2P players to purchase their unlocks.. Sure a few trinkets here and there can be added.. But largely all this stuff needs to be added to the game.. We either buy this stuff with credits, off of enemy we kill, or mission rewards.. Basically by playing the game.. The market is not playing the game..

 

I have over 40 pets.. I think I only actually earned about 5 or so.. That is to me is a loss of content.. I would have much preferred earned them by playing the game.. Be it camping a rare spawn, Killing an event boss, Some rare drop from rep dailies.. As you know, there are no rare spawns.. Sad too.. There are no event bosses.. I guess you can call Xeno an event boss.. It should be a 4 man op, and should have the blue sphere mount as a rare drop.. There should be no gree currency.. Just rep..

 

I hope this answers your questions..

Edited March 23, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Ultimate]

Its not really up to Bioware so much, i fully blame ea and their greediness and need to please the share holder! Bioware are not without blame tho

[MajikMyst]

Its not really up to Bioware so much, i fully blame ea and their greediness and need to please the share holder! Bioware are not without blame tho

 

^^

 

I couldn't agree more..

[TheNahash]

Nothing should be added to the Cartel Market with the fact that we get monthly grants in mind.. Our grants do not need to be spent for us..

 

Why not take into account the fact that we get monthly grants?

Don't we?

It's one thing to say that not everything should be added to the market (that's obviously correct), but to say that they shouldn't also take into account the fact that you get 500-600 CC a month makes no sense. We do. And we are allowed to spend them as we see fit. You can keep them and buy only the things that you really, really want or you can use them up every time you get them, on anything you like.

 

In short, all they are doing is attempting to spend our money so that we will have to spend more money and purchase more coins.. Which is why you can buy Rep from the market.. They are putting as much as they can in the market for that very purpose..

 

Well, true but is that supposed to be surprising? They are a company, not a charity.

Of course they will try to make us spend more money by making "shiny things" for us to buy. And as long as those things are non-essential things like a new armor shell or a new haircut, I really don't see the issue with that, provided we still have the option to buy them for credits from the GTN and that real content (raids, FPs, PVP maps, planets, events, Rep etc) is added to the game every 8-9 weeks.

 

The life day event was a box on the Cartel Market.. No missions, no new bosses, no decorations, Nothing.. A box that we bought on the cartel market..

Events do not belong on the Market.. (See life day..)

 

So...which is it? Was Life Day an event or not? You can't have it both ways.

There was no event for Life Day. The items were added as christmas toys that you could buy. That's it.

You could argue that they should've done a real event for Life Day instead of some Christmas ornaments but that's another discussion. They didn't. It's been 4 months. Let's move past that.

 

Largely the Market should only be used for the F2P players to purchase their unlocks.. Sure a few trinkets here and there can be added.. But largely all this stuff needs to be added to the game.. We either buy this stuff with credits, off of enemy we kill, or mission rewards.. Basically by playing the game.. The market is not playing the game..

 

Agreed.

 

There are no event bosses.. I guess you can call Xeno an event boss.. It should be a 4 man op, and should have the blue sphere mount as a rare drop.. There should be no gree currency.. Just rep..

 

I hope this answers your questions..

 

So...they should have made the event OP a H4 and have the "coolest" rewards as easy to get as possible (as a rare drop from a Heroic) while at the same time people could be farming that boss forever and never get that drop or lose it because someone else clicked Need.

 

Nope. Completely disagree. They could've made the Helix Components BoL since this is what people have been mainly asking for, but making the slightly harder content as easy as possible is the worst idea they could implement. This game needs more challenging content. Not any more H4 that people can solo or get through with the minimum effort. Where's the sense of achievement in that? And also, this is a recurring event. I don't understand why people NEED to have everything they like the minute they lay their eyes on it... It's a game. If you don't work for it, there's no point.

Edited March 24, 2013 by TheNahash

[DaRoamer]

I guess my question to you is.. What content have they added??

 

1.5.0 - HK-51 Activated / F2P - 11/15/12

 

New daily hub Section X

New companion HK-51

Nightmare mode Explosive Conflict released

New world boss Dreadtooth

 

1.6.0 - Ancient Hypergate - 12/11/13

 

New warzone Ancient Hypergate added

New heroic space missions added

 

1.7.0 - Return of the Gree - 2/12/13

 

New event Return of the Gree

New event world bosses on Ilum (Gravak'k & Surgok'k)

New system Galactic Reputation

 

Coming next month, a big expansion.

 

After that we have no clue yet.

 

Do you know that before their last expansion WoW went 13 months with ZERO content updates?

Edited March 24, 2013 by DaRoamer

[Joluka]

I was so happy with their, "You'll be able to have a barbershop" thing right up to where I got to, "With cartel coins." You guys should have seen my face. I should have recorded it.

 

You know what? I've been playing the game since beta and this really displeases me and many, many others as you can see. My point is, better said, my question is, why Bioware?

 

Respectfully, couldn't you have made it so the Cathar became automatically available when we bought the expansion? I mean, what happened to the whole, "Bioware doesn't make crap" thing? "Bioware will actually listen to its customers with great enthusiasm!"? C'mon!

 

If we payed for the expansion we should get a COMPLETE EXPANSION of the game. That means we get the Cathar and the barbershop as the EXPANSION.

 

But, whatever, if you want to keep it this way and make most of your community less unhappy, give a discount on the Cathar and Barbershop to your subscribers through the coins. Better yet, give an even bigger discount to the "Founders" of SWTOR to the coins. So far all we founders have gotten is a lousy title and a dumb walking chicken pet and an ugly yellow-black crystal. I should make a t-shirt out of that, "I subscribed to SWTOR and all I got was this lousy title!"

 

In all seriousness, I love SWTOR more than any other game and I want to see it thrive, but what made you want to become a video game maker and not a computer programmer? The fact that you thought you had the potential to make some people happy and entertain them with your games not just because of the money. And sure, you'll be very rich with what you're doing, but you'll also be coming down from a great company to a bad one. Why would you work in something that's supposed to be fun and make it so that your own customers yell at you for it every day?

[bloopbleep]

This wouldn't be such an annoying issue if most MMOs didn't already have this feature in-game for free.

Really, this isn't a crazy, groundbreaking new thing. It's a standard feature that's been asked for since launch or prior.

[Mowermanx]

I was so happy with their, "You'll be able to have a barbershop" thing right up to where I got to, "With cartel coins." You guys should have seen my face. I should have recorded it.

 

You know what? I've been playing the game since beta and this really displeases me and many, many others as you can see. My point is, better said, my question is, why Bioware?

 

Respectfully, couldn't you have made it so the Cathar became automatically available when we bought the expansion? I mean, what happened to the whole, "Bioware doesn't make crap" thing? "Bioware will actually listen to its customers with great enthusiasm!"? C'mon!

 

If we payed for the expansion we should get a COMPLETE EXPANSION of the game. That means we get the Cathar and the barbershop as the EXPANSION.

 

But, whatever, if you want to keep it this way and make most of your community less unhappy, give a discount on the Cathar and Barbershop to your subscribers through the coins. Better yet, give an even bigger discount to the "Founders" of SWTOR to the coins. So far all we founders have gotten is a lousy title and a dumb walking chicken pet and an ugly yellow-black crystal. I should make a t-shirt out of that, "I subscribed to SWTOR and all I got was this lousy title!"

 

In all seriousness, I love SWTOR more than any other game and I want to see it thrive, but what made you want to become a video game maker and not a computer programmer? The fact that you thought you had the potential to make some people happy and entertain them with your games not just because of the money. And sure, you'll be very rich with what you're doing, but you'll also be coming down from a great company to a bad one. Why would you work in something that's supposed to be fun and make it so that your own customers yell at you for it every day?

You do realize the "expansion" is close, possibly 3-4 weeks away, and that the Cathar and this so called barber shop are much later in the year?

[Tale]

I would actually say charging RL cash for haircuts is the norm in ftp MMOs . Either that or they are free but require the 'unlocking' (i.e. payment for) all but the most basic of hairstyles / colours.

 

Heck charging RL cash to completely recustomise a character is the norm in ptp (subbed) MMOs.

 

 

Anyways this feature is still a long way off and they might still decide to spin the 'barber-shop' aspect of it off to a separate service which is free to subbers (nickle n diming everyone else)

[DarthZak]

I see.

 

So guilty until proven innocent then.

 

Maybe you missed the part where they said more details to come later (with the implication that one should be patient and not jump to rabid conclusions, hard as that may be to refrain from).

 

When those details actually are made public... and you still don't like them, then by all means get your full-on Chicken Little performance going.

 

I used to think like you, you should know I did since we've commented on several topics in the past in agreement. The problem is that regardless of me keeping my hopes up they were crushed by BW/EA time and time again, so like any career criminal (which they are really..) yes it is guilty until proven innocent

 

And they couldve posted more information but they didnt and I know why, because theyre not allowed to. This isnt on Eric or his team but on their horrible PR who thinks that we're a bunch of little kids who will just moan a bit and then move on

This is most likely so that a bulk of the community will think like you, "We'll wait and see" and when details are announced its either implemented or they'll implement it next patch and it'll be too late to change anything and "theyll take it under advisement" which of course they wont

Edited March 24, 2013 by DarthZak

[DarthZak]

You do realize the "expansion" is close, possibly 3-4 weeks away, and that the Cathar and this so called barber shop are much later in the year?

 

You do realize thats a marketing strategy right? Both are probably finished or could be finished by the time Makeb hit but if they release it a few months later it goes under the guise of "It was ready back then so now it is and we can charge for it separately"

As someone who worked very closely with marketing departments I know full well how they operate

[Mowermanx]

You do realize thats a marketing strategy right? Both are probably finished or could be finished by the time Makeb hit but if they release it a few months later it goes under the guise of "It was ready back then so now it is and we can charge for it separately"

As someone who worked very closely with marketing departments I know full well how they operate

 

It may be, but the context of the argument in which he was using them made no sense, hence why I pointed it out.

[Lent_San]

This wouldn't be such an annoying issue if most MMOs didn't already have this feature in-game for free.

Really, this isn't a crazy, groundbreaking new thing. It's a standard feature that's been asked for since launch or prior.

 

Sums it up perfectly.

[Aries_cz]

I understand that Barbershop (let's call it that for lack of better term) is tied to CM. However, how about just making extra stuff unlockable via CM, but making the Barbershop itself (changing looks from selection of basic stuff and unlocked CM stuff) freely accessible to subscribers? That is win-win, right? You want to look cool? Buy special "hair schematic", but the barber will create it for you for credits.

F2P/Prefs could have it limited, sort of like Med Probes for field revive.

[kirorx]

I understand that Barbershop (let's call it that for lack of better term) is tied to CM. However, how about just making extra stuff unlockable via CM, but making the Barbershop itself (changing looks from selection of basic stuff and unlocked CM stuff) freely accessible to subscribers? That is win-win, right? You want to look cool? Buy special "hair schematic", but the barber will create it for you for credits.

F2P/Prefs could have it limited, sort of like Med Probes for field revive.

 

I agree with this

 

Credits with coin option to pay a vendor for any customization changes that are available already

 

Only options available for coin only should be new or rare stuff though IMO they should all have a credit option

[Cleet_Xia]

I understand that Barbershop (let's call it that for lack of better term) is tied to CM. However, how about just making extra stuff unlockable via CM, but making the Barbershop itself (changing looks from selection of basic stuff and unlocked CM stuff) freely accessible to subscribers? That is win-win, right? You want to look cool? Buy special "hair schematic", but the barber will create it for you for credits.

F2P/Prefs could have it limited, sort of like Med Probes for field revive.

 

There is an excellent thread over here http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=614344 suggesting just that.

 

If you support this idea, go over and /sign it.

[MajikMyst]

1.5.0 - HK-51 Activated / F2P - 11/15/12

 

New daily hub Section X

New companion HK-51

Nightmare mode Explosive Conflict released

New world boss Dreadtooth

 

1.6.0 - Ancient Hypergate - 12/11/13

 

New warzone Ancient Hypergate added

New heroic space missions added

 

1.7.0 - Return of the Gree - 2/12/13

 

New event Return of the Gree

New event world bosses on Ilum (Gravak'k & Surgok'k)

New system Galactic Reputation

 

Coming next month, a big expansion.

 

After that we have no clue yet.

 

Do you know that before their last expansion WoW went 13 months with ZERO content updates?

 

You haven't played to many MMO's have you.. And I doubt you have played all the content in WOW.. I would also suggest you consider what content is, as some of the things you named, I wouldn't consider content..

 

As for the expansion.. Way to list something that isn't out yet.. How about we stick to the here and now and the year that passed..

 

If you can only respond to a single line in a rather long thread.. Then perhaps it would be best not to respond.. Because you certainly didn't respond to the point of my post.. You totally missed it.. Just saying..

 

If your only point is to say they have put some stuff out.. I think you might be in the wrong thread.. Again, Just saying..

Edited March 24, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Vandicus]

You haven't played to many MMO's have you.. And I doubt you have played all the content in WOW.. I would also suggest you consider what content is, as some of the things you named, I wouldn't consider content..

 

As for the expansion.. Way to list something that isn't out yet.. How about we stick to the here and now and the year that passed..

 

If you can only respond to a single line in a rather long thread.. Then perhaps it would be best not to respond.. Because you certainly didn't respond to the point of my post.. You totally missed it.. Just saying..

 

If your only point is to say they have put some stuff out.. I think you might be in the wrong thread.. Again, Just saying..

 

Your post was complaining about the lack of content v. CM output. He directly addresses the question you put, as well as a few paragraphs where you say the content has been insufficient. It seems you're jumping on the rep system way too fast though. Its being added to over time(like with 2.0), it doesn't need to have a bunch of daily zones come out right at the same time it does. Its pretty much there for future daily zones.

[MajikMyst]

Why not take into account the fact that we get monthly grants?

 

Sorry.. But that is as far as I read.. Please go read the previous 90 pages of this thread.. Or at the very least press the Bioware post button up toward the top and read from there.. This issue has been covered many times..